Topic: Boys U16...soon to be U17-Top 20 (Read 220095 times)

hulabaloo · « **Reply #90 on:** December 04, 2008, 08:31:43 PM »

Quote from: Quiller on December 04, 2008, 07:53:52 PM

Big game this weekend Timbers vs. Crossfire Black.

I wonder if there are any 95's on the Timber's U13 expecting to try out for Oregon ODP this weekend. All sessions required on both Saturday and Sunday. ODP versus important game?

picaro · « **Reply #91 on:** December 06, 2008, 11:49:50 PM »

Hey now! who has their finger on the pulse? What is the current boys U13 RANKING?

?

Here ar my top five:

WPFC
Crossfire
Eastside
NWN
ECFC

SoccerOnTheMenu · « **Reply #92 on:** December 07, 2008, 02:27:49 AM »

Xfire Black 3, Timbers 1.
Great game. Both teams with multiple chances to score but with Xfire having the edge and converting more. Does anyone know how relegation is going to work? Heard some unconfirmed talk that maybe two teams down and two teams up.

Lothar · « **Reply #93 on:** December 07, 2008, 02:58:47 AM »

Quote from: SoccerOnTheMenu on December 07, 2008, 02:27:49 AM

Xfire Black 3, Timbers 1.
Great game. Both teams with multiple chances to score but with Xfire having the edge and converting more. Does anyone know how relegation is going to work? Heard some unconfirmed talk that maybe two teams down and two teams up.

I was able to watch most of this match, and I didn't get the sense that either team was playing to hold their spot. Though I believe these teams are very good as I have seen them play in the past, I felt that perhaps having a month without meaningful soccer was a factor. The first goal from XFire was in the first half - a hard, low shot, right at the keeper; As the keeper went down for it, the ball just slipped through (I had a bad angle, but think it just squeeked under his arm). Half ends 1-0. The second half was XFire starting to open it up a little bit by getting there right wing to play wider and push more up the field. This was the scene of the crime for the second goal when one of their players ripped a fine shot from about the corner of the 18 to the far upper V. The last XFire goal came from a miscommunication between the Timbers goalkeeper and defender when a ball was crossed the keeper was making a run to scoop it up, but the defender, appearently thinking he had things under control tried to clear it but shanked it off his foot redirecting it around his keeper and the ball headed towards an the goal. A XFire player hustled in to scoop up the easy goal, though I think it was going in anyway. Towards the end of the match the timbers made a last minuted push and managed to get a goal in to avoid the blank sheet. (I was distracted by another spectator so I'm not sure how that goal went in, but it was described to me as a scramble in the box). This game was not all XFire, the Timbers had quality looks at the goal but unable to convert. I would say possession was around 45/55 in favor of Xfire.

Not the prettiest game I've seen from these teams, but since it was one of the few outdoor games in town I'm not complaining. Congrats to XFire, it appeared as though you did it without the McCormick players we predicted would be there.

As for duel relegation, I have not heard that. It's an interesting rumor.

Black Bird · « **Reply #94 on:** December 08, 2008, 01:22:47 PM »

Here is the top 5 as I see it.....Spring league should vouch that!

1. Crossfire
2. GRFC
3. WPFC
4. Eastside
5. NWN

gr8cgar · « **Reply #95 on:** December 08, 2008, 02:28:29 PM »

So who gets that #1 spot at this moment? And who will have it when its all said and done in May?
To hard to compair BU13 Div.1 winners, BU13 Div. 2 winner and BU14 Div.2 5th place.

Just because a team plays up at U14 does not mean thay are the best team out there. Yes Crossfire's McCormick just might be the #1 team at U13 but placing 5th in the BU14 Div.2 does not make this very clear.
Placing #1 in Div.2 is a strong statement no doubt about it by GRFC but until they can make that same statement in Div.1 its hard to give them that #1 spot.
And lets not forget EFC. No votes for them yet? At 8-2 and ties for #1 but placed in at 2nd based on tiebreaking, it doesn't feel right putting them at #4.
So Winning Div.1 get my vote at this time. I believe the #1 spot needs to go to the team who earns it.

Right now my vote would be
1. WPFC
2. EFC
3. Crossfire
3. GRFC
5. NWN
6. ECFC

Spring/Winter league could be very excitting if McCormick's Bu13 drop back to age!

applecup2008 · « **Reply #96 on:** December 08, 2008, 07:51:47 PM »

Quote from: Black Bird on December 08, 2008, 01:22:47 PM

Here is the top 5 as I see it.....Spring league should vouch that!

1. Crossfire
2. GRFC
3. WPFC
4. Eastside
5. NWN

I agree with one thing you said Mr. Bird "Spring league should vouch that". The GRFC winter tournament next month might shed some light on the spring league if quality teams register.

Did GRFC really have 13 goals against them in league play for division 2? WPFC had 9 goals against and made 1st place in divsion 1.

All the teams on this list could have won division 2 just as GRFC did this fall. I will be impressed if GRFC makes the top three in standings for the spring and have less than 20 goals against.

Top 5!
1. WPFC
2. Eastside
3. Crossfire??
4. NWN
5. ECFC

Black Bird · « **Reply #97 on:** December 09, 2008, 12:24:27 PM »

I agree with gr8cgar, tough to compare when teams play in different divisions. My logic took into account historical info that considered summer tournaments and league play in 2008, and some head-to-head. Ironically that is the current situation and we do the best with the info we have. I am assuming GRFC will move to Div 1 in spring, I certainly hope McCormick does too. It is good for the age group.

Mr. Applecup, soccer is little more than just goals scored against them, it is the totality of how the game is played and style of play. You play to your strength. It doesnt matter if 20 goals are scored against GRFC in Spring league if they can score 40 goals and win the games. Does it? Please review the record of these teams when they played at the same venue, that might provide some light.

Quiller · « **Reply #98 on:** December 09, 2008, 01:44:21 PM »

I was wondering if Crossfire McCormick could move down to U-13 division. It would probably be a good thing for the other U-13 teams to face them. Most haven't played them in a while and it would be really interesting to see if the gap has closed or if Xfire is still the force they were in the U-11 season.

My guess some of the teams could give them a run for their money but I would still think that they would win the division fairly easily after all is said and done.

If they do move down does that mean both Crossfire Black and Columbia Timbers move down to division 2. Their would definately be a domino effect after that and probably some unhappy teams.

Hopefully we'll find out real soon.

littlebigdog · « **Reply #99 on:** December 09, 2008, 03:44:29 PM »

Re: Black Bird's last comments - I believe we've already covered this, but in head to head match ups between GRFC and other Div 1, and Xfire McCormick, teams in tournament play they are 2 losses, 3 wins and 1 draw. They lost to Xfire at their tournament and NWN at Rainier Challenge where they also played to a tie against ECFC. They beat ECFC in the final at Starfire in the Spring, and beat them in the semi's at PCC where they also beat NWN in a very tight double overtime match winning on PK's. They have never played WPFC or EFC head to head yet. Does that sound correct?

If that's the case, then I can draw no other conclusions than GRFC should be very competitive in the First Div next season and should finish in the top 4. I also agree that WPFC should be given the nod as tops in the division given how they performed in the PDL in the Fall.

applecup2008 · « **Reply #100 on:** December 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM »

Quote from: Black Bird on December 09, 2008, 12:24:27 PM

I agree with gr8cgar, tough to compare when teams play in different divisions. My logic took into account historical info that considered summer tournaments and league play in 2008, and some head-to-head. Ironically that is the current situation and we do the best with the info we have. I am assuming GRFC will move to Div 1 in spring, I certainly hope McCormick does too. It is good for the age group.

Mr. Applecup, soccer is little more than just goals scored against them, it is the totality of how the game is played and style of play. You play to your strength. It doesnt matter if 20 goals are scored against GRFC in Spring league if they can score 40 goals and win the games. Does it? Please review the record of these teams when they played at the same venue, that might provide some light.

Since GRFC hasn't played WPFC or Eastside, I compared the divisional games goals against. The total goals against for the season while playing the division 2 teams say alot to me. GRFC will have better offensive and defensive teams to play against in the spring. It makes no sense to compare games or tournaments from last summer.

Summer tournaments don't mean much to me. Guess players are all over the place. Families are taking vacations. Teams are just formed, and new coach's are getting a feel for new teams. Now is the time to see progress since the summer.

Black Bird · « **Reply #101 on:** December 10, 2008, 11:59:15 AM »

Littlebigdog, you have correctly mentioned the past results in the summer tournaments and yes we have covered this before, but you conveniently chose to ignore the fact the WPFC and EFC both lost early in the tournaments that GRFC eventually won the Championship(s). In tournaments were all these teams took part on a neutral field and wasnt sponsored or run by these clubs!

I respectfully disagree that you will consider only "goals against" and not "goals for", it doesnt make sense either.

littlebigdog · « **Reply #102 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:18:11 PM »

Wasn't trying to conveniently omit anything, and again, haven't we touched on this already? Which tournaments are you referring to where EFC and WPFC went out early and GRFC went on to win? The ones that come to mind are Starfire and PCC. At the Starfire Spring tournament that GRFC won, they played against ECFC in the final. ECFC beat WPFC in the semis to get there. At the PCC tournament, which GRFC won, they played NWN in the final who beat EFC in the semis to get there. So, if I follow your logic, you feel GRFC would have beaten WPFC and EFC because GRFC beat the teams who beat them.

If you feel that's the case, then because of the way things shook out at Ranier Challenge, you should agree that WPFC beats GRFC. I outlined all of this in my posting on 11/22, but basically GRFC plays to a draw against ECFC, ECFC makes it to the final and loses to WPFC, hence WPFC beats GRFC IF I follow Black Bird's logic. I feel like I'm rehashing all of this over again, but will say once more that I don't subscribe to this method of ranking. In my estimation beating, or losing head to head is the only way to decide who comes out on top.

A team's strengths and weaknesses match up differently to each team they play. I think field size, and condition of that field, can also be a factor in the outcome of a game. For example - A speedy team that plays well on a large field may have trouble against a slower, defensive minded team at a smaller venue. Put that same slower defensive minded team on a large fast field and the speedier team will probably have more of an advantage. My point is that there can be many factors that come in to play in deciding a game, and in most cases, any given team can beat any other team on any given day.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll agree to disagree and let the chips fall where they may. Looking forward to revisiting all of this when the spring season is over and the results are in.

Take it easy.

Black Bird · « **Reply #103 on:** December 11, 2008, 02:51:26 PM »

Littlebigdog - dont want to get contentiuos here, end of the day its kids playing soocer. I realize that WA soccer is controlled by few "so called" big clubs and they would prefer status quo. Just an example - when ranking is done in any sports not all teams play head to head (CFL, NFL,NCAA Basketball, and so on), this applies for FIFA ranking too!

Like you have mentioned, let it be decided on the pitch thsi winter. Competition is good for the boys!

Take it easy!

Quiller · « **Reply #104 on:** December 12, 2008, 02:17:43 PM »

Top 12 pdl teams as of today in my humble opinion is as follows.

1, Crossfire McCormick - come on Dickie boy move on down where your team belongs.
2, WPFC - very physical and skilled, makes for a tough team to play against.
3, EFC - big, fast and consistent.
4, NWN - skilled, but not as consistent as they will become.
5, GRFC - incredibly aggressive team that has something to prove. I'm sure they feel like they should be higher. Time will tell.
6, ECFC - weaker defensively than the other teams but have dynamic forwards.

7, Crossfire Black - came on strong at the end of season might be one of the top 6 teams.
8, Columbia Timbers - need more size to compete with the big boys.
9, Das Gunners - they'll try to outscore with their big, skilled forwards.
10, Sun City Strikers - play a relentless style without being over the top physical
11, Harbor FC - haven't seen them play so add whatever you like.
12, tie between HPFC and FW Storm - similar teams, just missing 1 or 2 top notch players to compete at higher level.

This is of course all subjective nonsense but still fun (in my eyes anyway).

Quiller · « **Reply #105 on:** December 20, 2008, 03:33:40 PM »

The only big surprise with the new division alignment is that the Timbers stays in division 1 while Crossfire Black gets moved down to division 2. Crossfire had more points than the Timbers.

The other thing is Crossfire Korn is now playing in the PDL as opposed to the State League.

Looks like WPFC just got a little stronger picking up a very talented player from a rival club up North. Washington Premier has to be the team to beat this upcoming season in Div. 1..

UpperV · « **Reply #106 on:** December 20, 2008, 09:26:22 PM »

And would this be the boy from Nationals?! He did play with them at Surf Cup.

Quiller · « **Reply #107 on:** December 22, 2008, 01:19:38 PM »

And would this be the boy from Nationals?! He did play with them at Surf Cup.

I do indeed believe it is. It's going to be a heck of a commute for him.

UpperV · « **Reply #108 on:** December 22, 2008, 01:47:04 PM »

Not too surprising, and I'll agree with you and tip my hat toward WPFC being a contender.

Squash · « **Reply #109 on:** December 22, 2008, 02:12:33 PM »

It's a steep hill to climb to pass the team at the top..... I'm looking forward to the second season of soccer, i think Crossfire-Black moving down will actually help them as a team more than staying up will help the Timbers. There is something to be said about winning once and awhile to build confidence going into state cup.

Nice pick=up by WPFC if true...

Cross
wpfc
EFC
GRFC
are my top 4 for now with the usual suspects close behind. I give GRFC props as of now based on their solid play in the first round of league, but now they will get tested weekly.

SoccerOnTheMenu · « **Reply #110 on:** December 22, 2008, 03:28:02 PM »

Quote from: Squash on December 22, 2008, 02:12:33 PM

i think Crossfire-Black moving down will actually help them as a team more than staying up will help the Timbers.
There is something to be said about winning once and awhile to build confidence going into state cup.

But I still find it a little troubling that relegation is not based on merit rather than some committee deciding what team goes down based on who knows what criteria.
Crossfire black finished with 5 points and Columbia Timbers finished with 4 points. Crossfire scored 14 goals, Columbia 11. Goals against was 34 for both.
There was no tie here, it was clear cut... Any idea what else could have been the basis for this decision?

Quiller · « **Reply #111 on:** December 22, 2008, 06:04:13 PM »

Hey Squash how much better do you think McCormick's team is in comparison to all others in the U-13 bracket? I only saw them play once last year and have yet to see them this year. They used to be pretty dominant. Have other teams closed the gap or are they still heads and shoulders above all else?

UpperV · « **Reply #112 on:** December 22, 2008, 07:17:57 PM »

I'm going to say at least a head above still.

Squash · « **Reply #113 on:** December 22, 2008, 07:25:02 PM »

Quote from: UpperV on December 22, 2008, 07:17:57 PM

I'm going to say at least a head above still.

I'd agree .....

applecup2008 · « **Reply #114 on:** December 22, 2008, 08:05:15 PM »

Can someone please tell me how McCormick's team is so much better than WPFC? Did anyone watch the finals of State Cup last year? At the end of regulation the score was 0-0. WPFC lost in PK's. I thought McCormick's team played better soccer than WPFCin the finals, but WPFC had just as many chances of scoring as Crossfire, maybe more.

This year WPFC has a veteran coach (McAlister) and more offensive power than last year. I don't think either team will have an easy win if they play each other in the State Cup again.

Since McCormick's team is head and shoulders above the rest of the U13 boys, they must have won the fall division for U14. Does anyone know?

Squash · « **Reply #115 on:** December 22, 2008, 08:16:13 PM »

We only gave them a head......no shoulders

applecup2008 · « **Reply #116 on:** December 22, 2008, 08:33:58 PM »

Funny

I really enjoy reading all the posts on this website.

This should be very competitive spring season for the U13 boys in divison 1.

westcoast · « **Reply #117 on:** December 22, 2008, 10:32:34 PM »

Quote from: Quiller on December 20, 2008, 03:33:40 PM

The only big surprise with the new division alignment is that the Timbers stays in division 1 while Crossfire Black gets moved down to division 2. Crossfire had more points than the Timbers.

The other thing is Crossfire Korn is now playing in the PDL as opposed to the State League.

Looks like WPFC just got a little stronger picking up a very talented player from a rival club up North. Washington Premier has to be the team to beat this upcoming season in Div. 1..

The switch could be good for WPFC or bad, we shall watch and see if they have picked up a teammate or just another big player.
Was NWN better with that player not on the field? My observation was yes at PCC tournament. Chemistry is important and sometimes players are individuals and have to jell.

Quiller · « **Reply #118 on:** December 23, 2008, 12:07:43 PM »

Alright, alright enough talk about division 1. They are all good and we just won't find out about how good McCormick's team is until the State Cup.

Divison 2 is going to be much more competetive this season in my opinion. No super duper team waiting to prove to anyone who will listen that they are the best team in BU-13. I'm going to very curious to see how Sun City Strikers fare against Crossfire Black. Those two teams will be fighting it out for the top spot with the Gunners right behind. The Gunners will be an interesting team to watch as they are a score first, play defense 2nd type team (or at least they were during the summer tournaments). The Heat were playing much better at the end of the year than at the beginning and could, maybe, possibly supplant Harbor FCfor 4th place.

WPFC looks to be fighting for to stay out of the last spot. I saw them early on in the summer and they didn't have the same talent as the other teams in division 2 but that doesn't mean that they haven't improved since then. Who knows maybe they will get a gifted player from the A team since the A team picked up at least one new player.

This is a much more balanced division than it was before with the addition of the Gunners and the subtraction of Evergreen.

Lothar · « **Reply #119 on:** December 24, 2008, 01:56:21 AM »

Quote from: Quiller on December 23, 2008, 12:07:43 PM

Alright, alright enough talk about division 1. They are all good and we just won't find out about how good McCormick's team is until the State Cup.

Divison 2 is going to be much more competetive this season in my opinion. No super duper team waiting to prove to anyone who will listen that they are the best team in BU-13. I'm going to very curious to see how Sun City Strikers fare against Crossfire Black. Those two teams will be fighting it out for the top spot with the Gunners right behind. The Gunners will be an interesting team to watch as they are a score first, play defense 2nd type team (or at least they were during the summer tournaments). The Heat were playing much better at the end of the year than at the beginning and could, maybe, possibly supplant Harbor FCfor 4th place.

WPFC looks to be fighting for to stay out of the last spot. I saw them early on in the summer and they didn't have the same talent as the other teams in division 2 but that doesn't mean that they haven't improved since then. Who knows maybe they will get a gifted player from the A team since the A team picked up at least one new player.

This is a much more balanced division than it was before with the addition of the Gunners and the subtraction of Evergreen.

In the summer tournaments the gunners used lots of guest players, however they have made some nice additions since the season started. They will make a good run at Division 2. Still scratching my head on the timbers not being relegated. May just turn out to be a long winter, er spring season.

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Author Topic: Boys U16...soon to be U17-Top 20 (Read 220095 times)