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Author Topic: mortgage rates  (Read 2305 times)

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easternwashington

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2008, 01:05:18 PM »

....slum lord :laugh:
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EWSoccer64

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2008, 11:34:02 PM »

>>>moron....why would they contact you!!!....of course you only report the bad credit....50 units and you probably rip everyone off.....<<<<easternwashington

Cali, just because I would not rent to you is no reason to bear a grudge...... ;D
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EWSoccer64

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2008, 11:39:14 PM »

>>>There are a few programs out there for first time home buyers.  The same programs would work great for the people above who have not had mortgage payments for years or have never had a mortgage.  For first time home buyers much importance is put into how they did paying rent.  <<<<

I have to wonder about that.   I have 50 or so rentals that I manage, and no bank, mortgage outfit or credit agency has ever contacted me about the rental history of any current or former tenants.   And we do not report to any credit agency the people who pay on time.   (We do do turn over the bad debts to a collection agency.)<<<


Cali,

People who have been renting go off and buy their own homes.   Believe it or not, it does happen.  But of the many who have gone on and bought their first homes after renting from me, no such situation has ever resulted in any contact from any bank or credit agency to check on their history of paying rent.

So my my response was about checking the rental payment history before issueing a mortgage to an applicant.

If I used words that are too large in explaining your bafflement, ask nicely and and I will use smaller ones......... :D
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basketballdad

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 08:54:57 PM »

Don't need a second home but have friends with good credit and they say it is all a hoax. The rates are great but greater standards only limit them to the almost but perfect candidates. Doesn't work if no one qualifies.
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EWSoccer64

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2009, 05:36:58 PM »

Eastern Europe is poised to enter into a worse financial mess, a much greater melt down, than the US has been experiencing.  This will pull down the banking systems of several EEC members.  Austria, Sweden, Italy and likely Britain will tumble in short order.   Russia will also go.   The mess is so bad, it might even hit the big Swiss banks hard.   
After Austria and Italy have their banking systems go under, the EEC will face systemic problems.  They may or may not avoid continental collapse.

Some Europeans are already describing this as worse than the Great Depression.  The IMF is rapidly running out of resources.  They are next scheduled to bail out Turkey (didn't they do that a decade ago?) and that some of their recent bail outs (as in the last few months) are already lining up and asking for more money.

And the real kicker is?   Of the 3rd world debt, apparently Europe has been more engaged in this market than anyone else.  And no one as yet has bothered to factor in the $5 trillion of loans from European banks to the "Developing World" in the financial problems facing the developed world.   Commodities (except for Gold) have been falling.   Grain will likely hold fairly steady, but other commodities are down and going farther down.  That will kill the 3rd world extraction based economies. 

And with economic crisis comes political instability.  Already, there are riots from Germany to the Baltic republic.   Was it Latvia that had the Treasury building burned and the Parliment ransacked?    Who doubts that Putin will start rolling Russian tanks into more of his neighbors?   Turkey's bid to join the EEC is already dead, that is no surprise, but it will be interesting to see how the immigrant communities in Europe are treated when the stuff hits the fan.

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HandBall

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2009, 01:03:05 AM »

Eastern Europe is poised to enter into a worse financial mess, a much greater melt down, than the US has been experiencing.  This will pull down the banking systems of several EEC members.  Austria, Sweden, Italy and likely Britain will tumble in short order.   Russia will also go.   The mess is so bad, it might even hit the big Swiss banks hard.   
After Austria and Italy have their banking systems go under, the EEC will face systemic problems.  They may or may not avoid continental collapse.

Some Europeans are already describing this as worse than the Great Depression.  The IMF is rapidly running out of resources.  They are next scheduled to bail out Turkey (didn't they do that a decade ago?) and that some of their recent bail outs (as in the last few months) are already lining up and asking for more money.

And the real kicker is?   Of the 3rd world debt, apparently Europe has been more engaged in this market than anyone else.  And no one as yet has bothered to factor in the $5 trillion of loans from European banks to the "Developing World" in the financial problems facing the developed world.   Commodities (except for Gold) have been falling.   Grain will likely hold fairly steady, but other commodities are down and going farther down.  That will kill the 3rd world extraction based economies. 

And with economic crisis comes political instability.  Already, there are riots from Germany to the Baltic republic.   Was it Latvia that had the Treasury building burned and the Parliment ransacked?    Who doubts that Putin will start rolling Russian tanks into more of his neighbors?   Turkey's bid to join the EEC is already dead, that is no surprise, but it will be interesting to see how the immigrant communities in Europe are treated when the stuff hits the fan.

And I've read that the Commercial Mortgage market could collapse next.  Some saying it could be worse than Residential and hit even harder with the recession we're trying to keep from depression.  All those businesses and buildings that are emptying belong to someone.  And those someone's are making payments, some pretty large mortgage payments, on some very expensive real estate that is collapsing in value too.

Obama will move to nationalize banks, then with those banks will have control over business.  Imagine the regulations the administration will write to impose its social and economic policies on the private sector.  You want a loan from a government bank?  Hey, jump through these small hoops and you've got it.  Hell, the left won't need unions anymore, they'll have the government in direct control of credit and lending and only those companies that meet government standards - written by Carol Browner, or Congress by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid - will get loans, or loans at the best rates.

People should read up on Hugo Chavez, now president for life in Venezuela, and how he used government control and power to build an empire that will keep him in power like Castro in Cuba.  I know this is America, but are you certain that it can't ever become Amerika?
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EWSoccer64

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2009, 04:04:21 AM »

The full permutations of what will or could happen in the event of a full economic meltdown are unknowable at this point.

One thing I believe is certain is that the illegal immigrants  - that both political parties tacitly allowed for the past 20 years - are going to end up the "whipping boys" at some point.   It is a fact of economics that the low wage, low skilled immigrants have been a major (some economists say "the major") reason that wages for the less skilled American work force have not really raised in the past decade or more.  These immigrants, and their effect on the economy, are as big a factor in controlling inflaction as the import of cheap, low labor wage cost goods from China.   

The Dems won't defend the illegal immigrants (and probably not the legal ones either) from the fury of the unions, and Repubs have already lost their incentives from big business to do so.

I feel a bit sorry for the illegal immigrants in some respects.  They were more or less enticed to come to the USA because we refused to do anything to stop them.  Hopefully, things do not become "ugly" like they will in some parts of Europe.
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basketballdad

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2009, 12:35:12 PM »

Handball, I truly can't figure you out. You mix a wealth of interesting information and the ability to articulate with analysis that leaves me dumbfounded. There is not going to be any nationalization of banks. I agree that it was a mistake to bail them out. I personally was fine with letting them fail as I am sure you were. (let the market decide) I do agree that the government is getting too involved in the business climate today but just like voluntary service, the draft, and a host of other items there is not going to be any nationalization of anything.
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Victory

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2009, 02:24:24 PM »

Don't need a second home but have friends with good credit and they say it is all a hoax. The rates are great but greater standards only limit them to the almost but perfect candidates. Doesn't work if no one qualifies.
Not true at all.  We are actually getting more people with good income and decent credit approved than before.  Get paid under the table or fail to pay your bills and you are out of luck.
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ritz bitz

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2009, 02:31:19 PM »

We just signed our refi last week at 4.75% reduced monthly payment by hundreds.  Had to jump thru a few extra hoops, but well worth it.  The appraisal was a bit of a shock, so if you owe a lot this may be an issue for some.
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basketballdad

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2009, 02:44:34 PM »

That is good to know. I will let friends in the market know. Just sad that I am good for the next 25 years. lol
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EWSoccer64

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2009, 06:14:54 PM »

Handball, I truly can't figure you out. You mix a wealth of interesting information and the ability to articulate with analysis that leaves me dumbfounded. There is not going to be any nationalization of banks. I agree that it was a mistake to bail them out. I personally was fine with letting them fail as I am sure you were. (let the market decide) I do agree that the government is getting too involved in the business climate today but just like voluntary service, the draft, and a host of other items there is not going to be any nationalization of anything.

Err, watch the headlines.   Obama made news today by supporting the Swedish model of nationalisation.   Senators Graham and McCain, on the other side of the aisle, are talking about the advantages of doing the same.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:27:36 PM by EWSoccer64 »
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basketballdad

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2009, 08:54:46 PM »

Once again like the idea of restricting the internet, never going to happen.
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cheersme95keep

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2009, 05:15:22 PM »

We just signed our refi last week at 4.75% reduced monthly payment by hundreds.  Had to jump thru a few extra hoops, but well worth it.  The appraisal was a bit of a shock, so if you owe a lot this may be an issue for some.

That's a great rate! 
A friend of mine told me that there will be a new "rule" that allows people to refinance for 100% or so of what they have on their mortgage due to the big drops.  Anyone know if this is true and if so, WHEN?
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basketballdad

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2009, 06:04:35 PM »

At that rate I may have to look into refinancing but I think I would be scared to get a new appraisal. Our local housing market has taken less of a hit than most but I still don't want to know.
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HandBall

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2009, 06:52:21 PM »

We just signed our refi last week at 4.75% reduced monthly payment by hundreds.  Had to jump thru a few extra hoops, but well worth it.  The appraisal was a bit of a shock, so if you owe a lot this may be an issue for some.

That's a great rate! 
A friend of mine told me that there will be a new "rule" that allows people to refinance for 100% or so of what they have on their mortgage due to the big drops.  Anyone know if this is true and if so, WHEN?

Under Obama's plan, the government would mandate, not the lender, rules to allow borrowers who owe up to 105% of their home's current value to be able to refinance. At the same time, the government would mandate, not the lender, rules that will allow loan modifications for borrowers who owe up to 150% of their home's currently value. 

For all of those who don't fall into these situations, the government will mandate, not the rest of us, that we shall subsidize the lenders who will be forced to renegotiate the original terms of the loans.

There's a great graph that the New York Times had done reflecting home values adjusted for inflation going back 100 years.  It shows the booms and the busts, such as the 35% loss of  home values in the Great Depression, as well as the booms in 1970s and 1980s.  The one constant is that home prices always return to about 110% of historical norm.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif

The current credit bubble and housing boom started with a steep increase in home values in 1997, not long after government loosening of credit and the fed pressures to lower interest rates.  Starting in 1997, homes increased from 110% of historical value to about 205% of value in 2006.  Then the bubble started to burst.  Since 2006, values have dropped 40% (value loss plus inflation loss) to about 155% of the historical norm.  See the curve now:

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/1/30/saupload_case_shiller_chart_updated.png

The downward slope of the curve is very steep right now and could do one of three things.  It could start to level out, continue to plummet to the norm, or in the case of entering a depression, values drop well below the historical norm before it bottoms out.  Home values across America are losing about 1% of value a month, on top of the value being lost due to inflation that is beginning to increase rapidly.

I only add this last part for this reason.  If you are hoping things will turn around soon and are making financial decisions based on that hope, this is information you need to be aware of.
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Victory

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2009, 11:34:20 AM »

At that rate I may have to look into refinancing but I think I would be scared to get a new appraisal. Our local housing market has taken less of a hit than most but I still don't want to know.

PM me with the adress and I can have an appraiser do a comp search for you.  About 1/4 of my refi attemps are failing due to low appraisals right now.  Most of these apear to be "80/20" loans done about 2 years ago.
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Victory

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2009, 11:37:14 AM »

We just signed our refi last week at 4.75% reduced monthly payment by hundreds.  Had to jump thru a few extra hoops, but well worth it.  The appraisal was a bit of a shock, so if you owe a lot this may be an issue for some.

Shoot you should of looked me up.  Sounds like you did well though.  What people are calling extra hoops right now is still far less than what used to be the norm a few years ago. 
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Victory

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2009, 11:43:45 AM »

I found this article.  Very interesting (at least to me)  Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are nickle and dimeing people to death right now.  FHA is not as bad but still some potential "hits" there as well.  Had a PM last night from someone who had just paid 5.5% in discount points.  Depending on credit score, type of home, loan to value ratio, and purpose of loan (cash back to pay off bills ect is higher) and rate if "buying down" to a lower rate these costs are within where I would expect them to possibly be.


Low Mortgage Rates a Mirage as Fees Climb, Eligibility Tightens
Email | Print | A A A

By James Sterngold

Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Brian Wickert, a mortgage banker in Butler, Wisconsin, prides himself on screening applicants carefully. That’s why he was stunned when a customer who sailed through four home loans tried to do a refinancing in January, only to be rejected by three national lenders.

The borrower’s credit standing and income were solid, said Wickert, 47, president of Accunet Mortgage. The problem was that, with home sales plummeting along with prices, the appraiser couldn’t find the required three comparable sales in six months within a one-mile radius.

“The business has gotten tougher than I’ve seen it,” Wickert said. “The person who has decided he wants to give himself his own personal economic stimulus package by refinancing at low rates is being stymied by the rules and the fees. Too many people are being excluded.”

Bankers around the country say one reason the housing market hasn’t stabilized is that while mortgage rates have come down, hurdles have gone up. Rising default rates and bank losses have made lenders more risk-averse, leading to higher fees, increased insurance rates and difficulties refinancing loans.

The average rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage dropped to 5.07 percent for the week ending Feb. 26 from 6.63 percent for the one ending July 24, according to data compiled by McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac. Meanwhile, the percent of mortgage applications that led to closings fell nationwide to 59 percent in the first half of 2008 from 66.3 percent in 2006, the most recent period for which data is available, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported.

‘Too Tight’

“Underwriting standards have changed from lax to too tight,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors. “The pendulum is swinging too far the other way. We can’t stabilize the housing market if buyers can’t get reasonable mortgages.”

Help may be on the way. Under the terms of President Barack Obama’s housing plan announced Feb. 18, as many as 4 million homeowners on the verge of foreclosure will be eligible to have their loans modified to reduce monthly payments. Another 5 million, whose homes are worth less than the principal of their mortgages, also may be able to refinance.

The program, which takes effect March 4, only covers borrowers whose mortgages are owned or insured by Washington- based Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac -- about 40 percent of the total, according to Inside Mortgage Finance, a Bethesda, Maryland-based newsletter. They must still prove they have a solid payment history and sufficient income to meet monthly payments, and the loan can’t be more than 105 percent of the appraised value of the home to qualify.

FICO Scores

Those not covered by the Obama plan will have to contend with lenders requiring higher FICO scores than in the past or charging upfront fees to borrowers with scores once considered excellent. San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co., the second- largest U.S. home lender, boosted the minimum score for Federal Housing Administration and Veteran Affairs loans it makes through brokers to 620 on Jan. 27 from 600.

“A score of 700 was once near perfect,” said Gwen Muse Evans, vice president of credit policy at Fannie Mae, the government-controlled company that helps set lending standards. “Today, a 700 performs more like a 660 did. We have updated our policy to take into account the drift in credit scores.”

Consumer credit scores, called FICOs after creator Fair Isaac Corp., range from 300 to 850. The average FICO score on mortgages bought by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae rose to 747.5 in the fourth quarter of last year from 722.3 in 2005, according to Inside Mortgage Finance.

Higher Fees

Accunet’s Wickert said that a 660 FICO score would have qualified most borrowers for loans with no upfront fees in the past. Now, someone trying to borrow $200,000 with a 660 score would have to pay a 2.8 percent fee, or $5,600, he said. Even someone with a 719 score would have to pay $1,750 in cash.

Wickert said that if customers don’t want to pay the fees in cash, he can increase the interest rate, since the wholesale banks he sells his mortgages to would pay more for the higher rate over the life of the loan. Before the crisis, a quarter-of- a-percentage-point increase in the rate was sufficient to cover a 1 percent fee. Now, Wickert said, he needs to double that.

Robert Satnick, a mortgage broker in California’s San Fernando Valley, said he has a customer whose efforts to refinance a loan at a lower rate might cost her about $600 a month more because the value of her condominium has declined.

The owner has good income and a FICO score in the high 700s, he said. The dilemma is that the value of her home has dropped to about $400,000, the amount of her mortgage. As a result, banks will charge her an upfront fee of 1.75 percent on a 6 percent refinancing. She also has to buy private mortgage insurance, adding another $63 a month to her cost.

‘Out of Reach’

“This is now a great opportunity to buy or refinance,” said Satnick, 44. “But getting the mortgage has gotten so hard it’s putting those properties out of reach of a lot of people.”

Another strain on consumers is a planned increase by Fannie Mae of add-on fees called loan-level price adjustments, which lenders often pass on to borrowers. Someone with a 699 FICO score borrowing 80 percent of the value of a home used to pay 1 percent in price adjustments. As of April 1, Fannie Mae will raise that to 1.5 percent. For a borrower with a 659 score, the adjustment will climb to 3 percent from 2.25 percent.

“These are targeted pricing adjustments aimed at aligning price with risk for the highest risk products in the market today, including interest-only loans, cash-out refinancings, low credit scores, high loan-to-value loans and condos,” said Fannie Mae spokeswoman Amy Bonitatibus.

Staff Reductions

Another issue is that mortgage lenders have eliminated jobs, slowing down the approval process.

“We’re very thinly staffed because we don’t know how long this will last,” said Christopher M. George, president of CMG Mortgage in San Ramon, California, referring to the global financial crisis.

George said he has gone from almost 800 employees in 2006 to 250. Nationwide, employment in the mortgage industry declined to 280,000 in December from 505,000 at the peak in February 2006, according to data compiled by the Mortgage Bankers Association in Washington.

Even with a smaller staff, George said, his underwriters do more checking than in the past. Before the crisis, he said, CMG asked borrowers to fill out an Internal Revenue Service form that allowed the lender to confirm income information, though it rarely sent the form to the IRS. Now, George said, CMG sends the form in before the closing, scrutinizes appraisals and contacts banks to check on the account balances of the borrowers.

“Everything is checked, and that makes it harder for some people,” he said.

Refinancing Program

Fannie Mae, taken over by the government in September after losses on its mortgage holdings, says it is doing what it can to help borrowers and is urging mortgage bankers to do the same.

A new program called DU Refi Plus that takes effect April 4 is intended to make it easier for consumers to refinance their mortgages, even if the value of their homes has declined. Lower FICO scores will be accepted, the requirement for an appraisal or home inspection will be waived in some cases, and borrowers will be able to submit a single pay stub to confirm their salaries rather than more extensive documentation.

Fannie Mae says it still won’t be easy to make low mortgage rates more accessible.

“There needs to be some creativity to get back into the marketplace and get through this fear,” said Fannie Mae’s Evans. “The message we’re trying to promote is we can’t be afraid to lend. We want to get back to the mentality of looking at prudent ways to say ‘Yes.’”

Wickert, whose mortgage-approval rate has declined to 93 percent from 98 percent a year ago, said the issue requires a flexibility that only a few lenders are showing. The customer who was rejected by three banks got her mortgage approved by a fourth, which focused on her high income and credit score, not the appraisal rule, he said, adding weeks to the process.

“A lot of people are frustrated because the rates look good, but someone has raised the bar on them,” Wickert said.

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ritz bitz

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Re: mortgage rates
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2009, 11:45:42 AM »

Extra hoops were not that big of a deal - we have always been very conservative with our credit and it is paying off now - just lost the great loan to value we had.  Appraiser was not at the top of their game and used a recent sale value for comp and put us in at the same value - our house is 25% bigger on a much larger lot (1/2 acre) and we have done more upgrading.  Similar home as ours just sold for $100k over our appraisal.

I will say something has changed as 2 homes in the neighborhood have just sold and we have had several on the market for months/years.

It's done and we are in a better place so we are happy!  Dk's have their soccer paid for this year.

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