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[Apple]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

[ShelbyJ]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

Sorry, Apple, although I hear you, I don't agree.  Most of the younger kids don't make 20 or 35 dollars. The pay for an AR of a U11 or U2 game (which is what 13 or 14 year old kids can do) is about 15.00 in most of the associations.  To center a game you do get more.  Rec and select games make less. Division 1 and 2 make more because more skill is needed.

The older kids can ref higher games and can make up to 35.00-40.00 per center, but the money averages out.  One of my kids reffed this weekend. They arrived at 9:30 for a 10:00 game and then reffed the next game which started at 12:00 and finished at 1:00 and got home around 1:30. They made 40.00 (as a center) for the two games, for around 4 hours of being "on the job" (set up, roster check etc.--there's more than just showing up and calling a game). That's good pay, but not tons. There are limits to how many games can be reffed in a day, so a limit to how much money can be earned reffing.

But here is the real truth about the pay: You are paying these kids for combat pay. In the time spent reffing these two games yesterday, my kid got yelled at by a coach who said he was going to "report her", was told she was "blind" by parents and to "watch the game"--all those typical comments that sidelines think are just fine.  This is common and not an exception. The rising costs are to attract refs. As soon as my son turned 16 and could get a minimum wage job at McDonalds, he quit reffing in a heartbeat. For him, it was a much better deal to earn 8.30 an hour and not get yelled at. My daughter who refs cannot wait to also get a job without the abuse.  She likes to ref and likes the game, but hates knowing that her job comes with insults.  I always hear parents say that being yelled at is part of what the ref should expect, but in return, they also expect compensation for it.   Without the money, the job is not that attractive to kids. The drop out rates in reffing is really high despite the money.

[goldengoal]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

Ref pay is reasonable considering all they have to put up with. I think club fees need to be looked at closer, which include DOC, Coach, fields etc.

[cheese]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

Yes, pay them and pay them well.
It's not enough for what they have to deal with as it is.

[Victory]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

OK I will be in the minority on this but I DO think to much is spent on refs.  I do not think any of them are paid to much but do we really need a center and 2 ARs for every game?   My DD guest played in a scrimmage that had 3 refs.  Does not having an AR mean a call might be missed?  Probably.  In the big picture does it really matter?  Will they not balance each other out?

[Redkard]

We are not paid enough. 

Referee have to put up with to much "you know what" from the touchlines from coach and fans.

I agree that all Non-counting games (scrimmages and friendlies) should only have a center referee.  It is a pain in the but when we arrive to game (PSPL) game as the only assigned center referee and have to tell people to talk to the league about only one referee being assigned to a game.

If the youth game paid more I think referees would stick around longer to experience the unnecessary abuse that they get.

On average fees are higher for high school and adult amature games including the co-ed leagues (same group of referee pool as the youth games).  The real money is in the college (a smaller segment of the youth pool) and pro games (Select few of the grade 7 and higher referees).

Imagine some of the crap that goes on when there are three referees present.  Now think how the atmosphere would be if a regular schedule league game or tournament game would be played without referees; all hell would break loose during everygame.

[thats_a_warning]

My question is have you ever officiated a match?  What would you be willing to take to be abused for an hour or more?  Have you ever wondered why some teams never have three officials, it's because officials get to choose the matches they officiate.  Whistle $3.00, socks $12.00, shorts $25.00, 10 shirts, yes 10 at $50.00+ each (yellow, black, green, blue, red, short and long sleeve) flags $15.00, recertification $50.00  Please take an entry level clinic (ELC) and officiate a match before you question the pay.

[ScreamnG]

I can only say one thing..... THANK YOU REF's!!

[Driver]

Refs deserve the nomey they get - one of my children chooses to A/R only , she is very competent and feels happy doing the u18 boys premier games and is good at it but  wont even do a center on U11 doesn't want the abuse...however its a big commitment for the parents too - the kids have to get driven to the game1/2 hour before it starts do the game and then be picked up  - so a 90 min game often means being out of the house for over 3 hrs....and then they need to file their reports too...at our scrimmages we only tend to have a center and parents can A/r if needed.

[Play to Feet]

Are youth referees overpaid?

Absolutely not, as demonstrated by the lack of people willing to perform the service at the current rate of compensation.  There is a huge shortage of qualified adults/teens who are willing to be belittled, cursed at, and otherwise verbally harassed in exchange for $30-$40 for 90 minutes of work.  Because demand for referees far exceeds supply, Associations have no choice but to utilize teenagers who are more willing than adults to accept the verbal abuse.  If the rate of pay were decreased, you might not lose the high quality adult referees because they, for the most part, perform the service based on their desire to "give back" to the sport and because of their love of the game.  You would, however, lose some adults and some teens.

This is simple economics, folks.  Increase the amount of compensation paid for a service, and more people will consider providing the service.  Decrease compensation, and fewer people will provide the service.

Alternative No. 1 for those that want to save money on referee fees:  use a single referee rather than three.  Alternative No. 2:  use volunteers (good luck with that one ).

[ShelbyJ]

OK I will be in the minority on this but I DO think to much is spent on refs.  I do not think any of them are paid to much but do we really need a center and 2 ARs for every game?   My DD guest played in a scrimmage that had 3 refs.  Does not having an AR mean a call might be missed?  Probably.  In the big picture does it really matter?  Will they not balance each other out?

I agree that to have three refs at a scrimmage is a lot. In general, friendly games don't have the expectations that regular games have, so as long as someone is keeping things running, parents and coaches are fine with it.

I can't agree with you on the idea that most games need only one ref, however, given the expectations of fair calls that coaches and parents expect.  I'll be perfectly honest--as a ref, I run a lot and try and stay up with the ball, but I cannot call every offside when my angle is wrong.  Similarly, I can't see down the line for the out of bounds calls. IF I had a set of parents and coaches who absolutely agreed that they would not be mad if I missed the offside or out of bounds call, then I would be happy to get rid of ARs.  Of course, if you can find me that group of parents and coaches, I will also admit I am no longer living on Earth and must be in some parallel universe.

[justaparent]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

There are a lot of families who have a hard time paying for soccer (even before the economic issues we have today).  As a coach and administrator I have always told players (and their parents) to become a referee and use that money to pay for soccer.  Some have taken this advice and they are able to pay most of thier soccer expenses in this manner.

My kids referee and use this money to buy their $150 - $200 cleats.  That is a nice load off of my pocket book.

My kids also use their referee money to pay for video games, movies, dances, etc... basically some of the expenses that free up my pocket book to pay for soccer.

Now that being said if referee's were not paid would that reduce the cost of youth soccer?  Maybe if it had been that way from the beginng but in this day of making youth soccer more professional that money would now get funneled to a DOC and coaching staff.

[Futsal]

In these times of economic troubles-do you think crazy parents should be paying kids (under 18) -$20-$35 to AR/Ref

games???

I think soccer fees need to be reexamined.

Why are we paying kids so much money??

There are a lot of families who have a hard time paying for soccer (even before the economic issues we have today).  As a coach and administrator I have always told players (and their parents) to become a referee and use that money to pay for soccer.  Some have taken this advice and they are able to pay most of thier soccer expenses in this manner.

My kids referee and use this money to buy their $150 - $200 cleats.  That is a nice load off of my pocket book.

My kids also use their referee money to pay for video games, movies, dances, etc... basically some of the expenses that free up my pocket book to pay for soccer.

Now that being said if referee's were not paid would that reduce the cost of youth soccer?  Maybe if it had been that way from the beginng but in this day of making youth soccer more professional that money would now get funneled to a DOC and coaching staff.

Really hate to sound like Dr Fred but here goes.

Using $35 center and $15 per AR = $65.00 per game for referee crew

Fall & Spring Season with 10 games each season ... Home team pays for referees
$65 per game for referees x 10 home games = $650.00 / year

$650.00 / 15 players per team = $43.33 per player per year ($4.33 per player per home game)

Given referees are available for all 20 league games each player pays $2.17 per game for referees. 


 

[Back In BLACK]

You'd have to pay me a lot more than 20 bucks a game to take the abuse some of these kids sign up for   

[kevchenko]

Soccer is a very hard game to referee in my opinion and it seems to me that most people tend to want definitive rules and because of this factor tend to question refs far more than is reasonable.  For example, because a ball touches a hand, this do not make a "handball".  The are the factors of ball to hand vs. hand to ball.  In other words soccer refs are left with the factor of interpretation of events which places them under a lot of pressure.  The question of intent in a passback situation leaves a lot of people fuming, but this seem to me more a question of the ignorance of how the rules of the game are written and interpreted by the ref. 

In other words this a sport where you have to not only continuously run but also watch the development of the game and make decisions on intent when a rule could be potentially broken.  The rules also makes the A.R. face the impossible task of seeing when the ball was kicked and where the intented reciever was for the offside rule.  Unless you are a reptile that can move each eye individually and process the information, you have to estimate the position of the reciever and watch the kicker or watch the reciever and listen to the thwack of the kick, either way you are processing information without having all of the information. 

It is unfortunate that people realize that you can change the outcome of the match by bullying the ref, some is lack of understanding, but many coaches who have played at college level or above know that they are exploiting the inexperience of young or inexperienced refs and this is unethical in my opinion. 

I would almost say have a much higher level of training and involvement and pay refs more giving them more opportunity to ref more games.  Also I would have more disciplinary action (Yes, touchline bans) against Coaches who try to control the outcome of the game with their outbursts.  I mean the kids are amateur players but the Coaches aren't, they are paid professionals and should be treated the way a professional coach in any other league would be held accountable to. 

[NoWimps]

No Wimps speaks
Be a Ref, then ask the question PERIOD END.

[EWSoccer64]

Play to Feets answer was even better than RedKards.

The simple answer is that as long as coaches, parents and clubs want to allow verbal abuse of referees at games, there will be a shortage.  I was a referee for a long while, forced to retire after injuring my leg while playing in a men's league game.  A decade ago, when there were not enough refs for adult "Mexican" League games, the solo center pocketed a full $75 per match.   Not a single ref liked that, it was not as safe for the ref or the players as when there was a three man crew, when the center would get $35 and the lines $20.    Youth games are not normally as bad, but can be really rough, particularly on in experienced refereees. 

Oh, and the answer to why there were 3 refs at a "friendly"?   Perhaps the club or association requires it because of liability.  Our club requires at least a certified, neutral center to be officiating at all scrimmages, even between teams in the same club.


>>>>Are youth referees overpaid?

Absolutely not, as demonstrated by the lack of people willing to perform the service at the current rate of compensation.  There is a huge shortage of qualified adults/teens who are willing to be belittled, cursed at, and otherwise verbally harassed in exchange for $30-$40 for 90 minutes of work.  Because demand for referees far exceeds supply, Associations have no choice but to utilize teenagers who are more willing than adults to accept the verbal abuse.  If the rate of pay were decreased, you might not lose the high quality adult referees because they, for the most part, perform the service based on their desire to "give back" to the sport and because of their love of the game.  You would, however, lose some adults and some teens.

This is simple economics, folks.  Increase the amount of compensation paid for a service, and more people will consider providing the service.  Decrease compensation, and fewer people will provide the service.

Alternative No. 1 for those that want to save money on referee fees:  use a single referee rather than three.  Alternative No. 2:  use volunteers (good luck with that one ).<<<

[DawgFan]

Apple,  What in blue blazes are you thinking???     Oh, wait you weren't!  Have you ever been to a rec soccer game of your DK and not had a ref?  Who officiated the game, a coach, parent or other person  who had no clue what the rules are and called nothing while it was an all out brawl between the kids.  What does this teach the kids? Can you tell me how to determine a hand ball or whether the player is offisde or not? These are all things you need to determine while running with the players and watching the ball as a Ref! Not to mention all the grief you get from coaches, parents and players, the pay you earn and I do mean earn is well worth every penny spent by the clubs!!!!!