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[vms]

Freekick, I appreciate the advice and mostly agree with you. Where I disagree is the idea that you have to play all year because someone else would have. If premier really is what I read it to be then most teams and clubs want to put the highest level team on the field that they can. I have seen athletes in various sports that need very little practice and they can be one of the best in a particular sport. I have no problem with any player in any sport specializing if that is what they truly want to do. However, sometimes it is less about what the player wants and more about what coaches tell players. I have seen high school coaches flat out lie to get a player not to play another sport.

If a girl or boy wants to play multiple sports and miss some practices, especially out of the main season, and is good enough to be one of the best then I am fine with that. Maybe I don't understand premier soccer like I think I do. I am not sure when the primary club soccer season is sometimes but if you have an athlete that is one of the best players who takes off a season that is during the down time and come right back and start due to their skill and athleticism then so be it. It is not about time put in or commitment only. Otherwise the players who showed up for every practice and worked the hardest should start and play the most.
Freekick, this is nothing against you at all  but one of my pet peeves is the attitude that players have to specialize to be great. That may be true for the good player who has some talent and wants to stay on top but for the elite athletes I would definitely disagree. I had the pleasure of coaching one wh only picked up a basketball from Nov 15 until early February. He did not go to any camps, did not participate in summer league, did not work on his game at all. (he was a big time baseball player). All he did was make first team all league in a tough 3A league as junior, and was MVP of the basketball league as a senior. As long as he gave it all during the winter months I was fine with it. Could he have been better if he had done more sure. He easily could have played division 2 basketball but that was not his dream. He took the spot of someone who participated in summer league, worked on their game 9 months of the year, etc. Such is life.

Wow! Couldn't disagree more. At the premier level it is absolutely about commitment and showing up for practice. It is unfair to a player who shows up for every game, every practice to lose time to a "superstar" (?prima donna) who wants to play multiple sports and shows up when he/she wants. Uhuh. This player would not see the starting 11. A team is a team...if he wants to be an individual, there is swimming and golf!

[freekick]

I think one of the biggest factors to consider here is age.   A 6th grader very likely can play multiple sports without much harm to the team(s).   My kid did play multiple sports at a lower level until 7th grade....then narrowed down to soccer primarily-- but still played with neighborhood teams in other sports through 8th grade.  Tried to run cross country freshman year and play premier soccer....the running had a negative affect on soccer...pretty much exhausted my player just in time for club practice. 

The reality at the high school and premier level is this (for boys):
Try out in March for both HS and premier.  Play HS soccer until May depending on record.  Start up again with club team at conclusion of HS season.  Play in summer tournaments.  Club season for 10-11 weeks in the fall.  Time off at holidays.  Back to practice to prepare for state cup in early January---2 to 3 practices per week.  State cup until late Feb depending on success of team.....start all over again.

Tell me where the break is to play another sport and give your all to the team and the game?  (again at the high school level.) At some time, we need to teach our kids they cannot do it/have it all.  It is ok to focus on one thing at the right age....it is actually admirable and allows them to decide how much they really love it.  I am totally against doing this one sport thing at a young age, but for the older kids it is very appropriate. 

[Left Foot]

>>>Teams picked at U11 in select will be 90% different at U18 do the math you bunch of morons!<<<<Duffer

Err, no.   Coaches like Legend Lover and others have a much lower loss rate than that.   At U-17, I had 13 of the 18 players that I coached on the same team at U-13, and two of the players that were not on the team at U-17 want to come back for U-18 (one moved back into town and the other decided that he did not like the premier team he moved onto, even though he was starter there.)

Coaches that coach on the "Premier" model, that exhibit little loyalty to the team, lose a much higher percentage of the players each year.

I think that select teams normally have a smaller attrition rate - particularly if they are even moderately successful - than premier teams.   Yote?  Islander?   Care to chime in?

But select teams have a "raison d'etre"  (A "reason to exist" for Cali-boy) other than to be feeders for Premier or PDL teams.   That is the part that many people do not understand.

LOL Your talking good teams that play well in there league I,m talking about a top team in a top club!
I,m also not trying to say that soccer is the end all I,m just saying let parents and kids make that choice!
Limiting parents choices seems to lead to Xbox sales going up!!
And yes I mesure things diffrent I see tomany daddys and mommys that have held more kids back for there win colume that I can shake a stick at  And thank god some parents understand lifes not lived in a box that its ok for there kid to have good and bad in there lives better now than seeing them all wanting to be the same drown that happens with parents not wanting jonny here he sucks at somthing!!

I think that it is very difficult to generalize across teams and ages with respect to attrition rates. My DD played on a local select club for 2 years then switched to a top premier club and team from u-12 thru u-18 (her current year.)

Her club team has 6 players from u-11,  8 from u-12 and 14 or so from u-13. Most of the player personnel changes have come via movement up and down from the B team with only 3 players coming to the team straight from other teams outside of the club.

The select team she left had tremendous turnover due to coaching changes and some local drama.

It is interesting to note that a greater degree of turnover occurred early on at the premier level (u-11 - u-12.) However, we have all seen teams implode at the later ages u-16 as well.

So many factors impact player movement -- players moving out of the area, divorce, loss of interest, injury, team chemistry, coaching changes etc. -- that it is extremely difficult to point to a "Premier" mindset or model as resulting in greater attrition for premier teams. It makes sense, however, that a truly higher level of play would tend to filter more players based upon desire and ability.

[basketballdad]

Totally disagree with you VMS. You assume prima donna which is not always the case. All you are doing is reducing the chance of success for your team. I am positive that these athletes are so rare that it hardly ever happens. You did not read my post. I said during the primary season of soccer, whatever that is, they should commit to soccer.  If you are saying that premier soccer is year round and you have to commit year round no matter what then I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. As a head coach I had to ocassionally deal with other head coaches that wanted to hoard talented athletes and told them if only they specialized they would get college scholarships etc. (not in soccer by the way). When the college scholarships never materialized and the season was disappointing I often wondered what the parents who bought into the talk were left thinking.

By the way with over 160 hours of WIAA clock hours in training and 16 years of coaching everything from 3rd YMCA soccer (where I used basketball terminology and we had a blast) to varsity football and basketball at the 3A level I can tell you almost every renowned expert I have ever listened to will tell you that cross training and down time from a sport is essential. Study after study has shown that to be true. Among the experts I have had the good fortune to listen to they are all in agreement that the body, not to mention the mind, needs rest.

This idea that year round anything is good for a young person flies in the face of science, sports psychology, and sports medicine. Ask the UW of washington professer I listened to last year talk about physical, mental burnout of young athletes. Since I am on the rant anyway I might as well lambast all the coaches who take a young athlete in any sport and focus them on that sport exclusively. Here is the general way it works. Some youngster shows some promise in a sport and success at the rec level. Then some coach or parent suddenly believes they have the next pro and flies into a so called elite program. Now a young person who has success and getting positives from all the adults around you what are you going to do? Of course buy in. It is only natural and understandable. Success continues to happen until they get to a certain level where it becomes much tougher. Then suddenly it is the coaches fault, or the clubs fault, or someone elses fault. Or in the case of one stellar female athlete she gave it up her senior year because she was tired of it.

Give the 9,10, 11, 12 year olds a break and let them explore. This is not soccer specific at all but if I had this many adults telling me what to do I doubt I would have ended up a mulisport starter at the varsity level. For the record, with an AAU 6th grade basketball team that has won 2 of the three recent tournaments we entered and competed in a 7th grade league very well, we still play freeze tag dribbling a basketball once a week during practice. They love it and don't even realize that they are conditioning, working on ball handling skills, court awareness, and teamwork. They think it is a timeout from real basketball stuff. Their ignorance of what the drill is being used for and innocence just loving playing a game  is fine by me.

[vms]

I think one of the biggest factors to consider here is age.   A 6th grader very likely can play multiple sports without much harm to the team(s).   My kid did play multiple sports at a lower level until 7th grade....then narrowed down to soccer primarily-- but still played with neighborhood teams in other sports through 8th grade.  Tried to run cross country freshman year and play premier soccer....the running had a negative affect on soccer...pretty much exhausted my player just in time for club practice. 

The reality at the high school and premier level is this (for boys):
Try out in March for both HS and premier.  Play HS soccer until May depending on record.  Start up again with club team at conclusion of HS season.  Play in summer tournaments.  Club season for 10-11 weeks in the fall.  Time off at holidays.  Back to practice to prepare for state cup in early January---2 to 3 practices per week.  State cup until late Feb depending on success of team.....start all over again.

Tell me where the break is to play another sport and give your all to the team and the game?  (again at the high school level.) At some time, we need to teach our kids they cannot do it/have it all.  It is ok to focus on one thing at the right age....it is actually admirable and allows them to decide how much they really love it.  I am totally against doing this one sport thing at a young age, but for the older kids it is very appropriate. 

I agree that age matters. The youngers should choose to play any sport they like. Once they choose to play Premier/PDL then it is expected that they commit. There are always kids who excel at several sports and can beat out most kids. BUT, what does that say to that kid who commits 100% yet sees less PT than the boy playing 3 sports and barely making a practice. What it tells me is the coach is more interested in winning than development...and that kid should look for a new coach!
At NWNBU17, the coach made it a point to play all boys equal minutes (generally unheard of at this age!!!) ...as long as they showed at practice and worked their butts off. While it ultimately hurt their W/L record, players won a starting position in practice EVEN if they were not the best at that position!The lineup was a hodgepodge much of the season. It did piss off boys used to being "starters" but it also taught them a lesson that hard work is rewarded. Now at Cup where the "best 11" are starting, the reserves have had many minutes and are able to fill in for injury without a drop off... and the starters are still working their butts off to not lose their position !!! Good idea in retrospect!

[basketballdad]

PDL is sure confusing to me. For  a while I thought it was one thing but after reading these post now it is sounding more like rec league where players just develop. Someone needs to tell me what it is all about since I am getting mixed messages. I thought PDL was about the highest level of soccer and putting like skilled  athletes together to compete against like skilled athletes at the highest level. If I am wrong then I apologize but that was my impression. News flash to those who don't know it there are some athletes, rare though they may be, that can walk into a practice of almost any sport and be the best on day one or two. It is called genetics and you can't coach it, you can only refine it. Throw in a competitve spirt and that person will be better than all those who work hours per day to be above average. It is ok in both cases. Don't follow soccer so never seen them but in basketball, football, baseball I have seen it. Maybe soccer is different I will grant you that since the more I learn the more it does seem radically different than most sports.

[vms]

Totally disagree with you VMS. You assume prima donna which is not always the case. All you are doing is reducing the chance of success for your team. I am positive that these athletes are so rare that it hardly ever happens. You did not read my post. I said during the primary season of soccer, whatever that is, they should commit to soccer.  If you are saying that premier soccer is year round and you have to commit year round no matter what then I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. As a head coach I had to ocassionally deal with other head coaches that wanted to hoard talented athletes and told them if only they specialized they would get college scholarships etc. (not in soccer by the way). When the college scholarships never materialized and the season was disappointing I often wondered what the parents who bought into the talk were left thinking.

By the way with over 160 hours of WIAA clock hours in training and 16 years of coaching everything from 3rd YMCA soccer (where I used basketball terminology and we had a blast) to varsity football and basketball at the 3A level I can tell you almost every renowned expert I have ever listened to will tell you that cross training and down time from a sport is essential. Study after study has shown that to be true. Among the experts I have had the good fortune to listen to they are all in agreement that the body, not to mention the mind, needs rest.

This idea that year round anything is good for a young person flies in the face of science, sports psychology, and sports medicine. Ask the UW of washington professer I listened to last year talk about physical, mental burnout of young athletes. Since I am on the rant anyway I might as well lambast all the coaches who take a young athlete in any sport and focus them on that sport exclusively. Here is the general way it works. Some youngster shows some promise in a sport and success at the rec level. Then some coach or parent suddenly believes they have the next pro and flies into a so called elite program. Now a young person who has success and getting positives from all the adults around you what are you going to do? Of course buy in. It is only natural and understandable. Success continues to happen until they get to a certain level where it becomes much tougher. Then suddenly it is the coaches fault, or the clubs fault, or someone elses fault. Or in the case of one stellar female athlete she gave it up her senior year because she was tired of it.

Give the 9,10, 11, 12 year olds a break and let them explore. This is not soccer specific at all but if I had this many adults telling me what to do I doubt I would have ended up a mulisport starter at the varsity level. For the record, with an AAU 6th grade basketball team that has won 2 of the three recent tournaments we entered and competed in a 7th grade league very well, we still play freeze tag dribbling a basketball once a week during practice. They love it and don't even realize that they are conditioning, working on ball handling skills, court awareness, and teamwork. They think it is a timeout from real basketball stuff. Their ignorance of what the drill is being used for and innocence just loving playing a game  is fine by me.

Read my previous post about age. I agree that year round anything is not great...but if a kid wants to commit at an older age but is being deprived of PT by a player who is NOT as committed, then I will again say "The coach is more interested in winning than developing". And that's OK for the player who is getting "favored" but damn wrong for the player who is being slighted. Time to jump ship!

[vms]

PDL is sure confusing to me. For  a while I thought it was one thing but after reading these post now it is sounding more like rec league where players just develop. Someone needs to tell me what it is all about since I am getting mixed messages. I thought PDL was about the highest level of soccer and putting like skilled  athletes together to compete against like skilled athletes at the highest level. If I am wrong then I apologize but that was my impression. News flash to those who don't know it there are some athletes, rare though they may be, that can walk into a practice of almost any sport and be the best on day one or two. It is called genetics and you can't coach it, you can only refine it. Throw in a competitve spirt and that person will be better than all those who work hours per day to be above average. It is ok in both cases. Don't follow soccer so never seen them but in basketball, football, baseball I have seen it. Maybe soccer is different I will grant you that since the more I learn the more it does seem radically different than most sports.

so name the last dual scholarship athlete out of WA state that played basketball, football , baseball or soccer...doubt you will. Now you may find some who ran track and played one of those sports, or golf and one, or tiddlywinks and one...but not two!

[Left Foot]

basketball dad. Don't be confused by vms

What you are seeing played out is the oft-repeated conflict between development and competition. You will often see folks seem to argue that the end-all-be-all is one or the other, but not both. There is a good argument that competition is, in fact, a component of development. Some will use the fact that a team that wins many games as evidence that the coach must not be developing the players. Again, you would think that teams that win would be more likely to be better at developing players, especially when there is little player churn. Go, figure!

Note that vms indicates that, come state tournament time, the best 11 started regardless of previously having played multiple sports. This makes sense since in the state tourney, if you lose you go home.

As for soccer being a different sport, it is to some extent. It seems to me that high level players at any position need to have a much broader set of skills than in some other sports. I would say that it would be difficult for a part-time player to start on an older regionally competitive premier team. At some point, the skills difference is just to great. I'm not saying it can't be done, it is just very difficult.

[juggles]

so name the last dual scholarship athlete out of WA state that played basketball, football , baseball or soccer...doubt you will

  Did someone like this EVER exist? Bo Jackson comes to mind as  someone who could have played professionally in 2 different sports as well as Mark Hendrickson and Nate Robinson but these guys weren't awarded scholarships for 2 different sports. Am I understanding your question correctly?

[vms]

basketball dad. Don't be confused by vms

What you are seeing played out is the oft-repeated conflict between development and competition. You will often see folks seem to argue that the end-all-be-all is one or the other, but not both. There is a good argument that competition is, in fact, a component of development. Some will use the fact that a team that wins many games as evidence that the coach must not be developing the players. Again, you would think that teams that win would be more likely to be better at developing players, especially when there is little player churn. Go, figure!

Note that vms indicates that, come state tournament time, the best 11 started regardless of previously having played multiple sports. This makes sense since in the state tourney, if you lose you go home.

As for soccer being a different sport, it is to some extent. It seems to me that high level players at any position need to have a much broader set of skills than in some other sports. I would say that it would be difficult for a part-time player to start on an older regionally competitive premier team. At some point, the skills difference is just to great. I'm not saying it can't be done, it is just very difficult.

Sorry if I am confusing. Believe me all coaches coach to win. I did. And through competition comes development...agreed. what I am arguing is NOT the wins or losses per se, but the manner in which they are obtained. Favoritism has NO place in sports...but it occurs ALL the time. As kids with a choice, move on if you are working your @$$ off and NOT seeing the time you deserve to develop. You can go to the Academy, or play Premier or PDL, and practice ALL day and all night, but if you are NOT playing, you are NOT developing your full potential. Anyone who believes otherwise has drunk the   coolaid!! Hope it tastes good as your $$ goes down the toilet!

[vms]

so name the last dual scholarship athlete out of WA state that played basketball, football , baseball or soccer...doubt you will

  Did someone like this EVER exist? Bo Jackson comes to mind as  someone who could have played professionally in 2 different sports as well as Mark Hendrickson and Nate Robinson but these guys weren't awarded scholarships for 2 different sports. Am I understanding your question correctly?

   Bo and Deion sanders were the best to play 2 at the highest level...don't know if they got scholarships however. Danny Ainge and MJ   obviously both excelled in hoops more than baseball. Might be a few others but none that come to mind immediately ...OK JIm Thorpe! LOL
I doubt there is a HS athlete in this state who would excel enough in 2 sports to get scholarships for both...although the kid from Skyline , Kason Williams, might in football and hoops.Only a sophomore right now!
Don't know of anyone playing soccer and another sport at a level high enough to get 2 scholarship offers...and please don't say kicker in football! or golf! LOL

[Left Foot]

hmmm... not sure where the favoritism angle fits but I will agree that you are on the wrong team if you neverget to play in a game. My experience has been, however, that every kid got to play at least some until crunch time -- state, regionals, nationals -- and even then, most saw playing time.

How much playing time is required is a difficult nut to crack. Quite a balancing act. If a player is practicing 2-3-4 days a week against high level players, some playing time is required to round out development, but how much?

[basketballdad]

A young man who plays quarterback named Locker comes to mind since he could have gone pro in baseball also.

[basketballdad]

VMS there is no such thing as favoring a more talented player who is better. That makes no sense. I told all  my assistants at the j.v. and C team level that every player played in every game. I was less concerned with winning than in allowing players to develop. At the varsity level I told each player you may play the whole game some of you may not play at all. That is the way it is. I let each player know their role prior to the season starting, (after tryouts) and then they decided whether they could accept that role. I also told them how they could add to their role. I assume club soccer has some sort of tiered system also as far as playing time and winning. Once again I would say you are right for the primary soccer season. Lets say it is in the spring. A dual sport athlete who is playing soccer should put soccer above all else during this time. Now lets say that same player has a family vacation in the summer, team camp for his basketball team for a week, etc. Are you saying he or she should lose their spot even though they are better? If so then we will disagree. Once again I think there is a time and place for reprioritization and I worked with athletes. I would love to hear from a top PDL coach who says they would demote or cut an obviously better player because they did not participate as much during the off time of the year. If hard work and effort with some talent was all it took i would just be retiring from the NBA now. 

[vms]

A young man who plays quarterback named Locker comes to mind since he could have gone pro in baseball also.

OK! Thanks.was he chosen by any team in MLB? Because it is unlikely he will make the NFL as a QB. That does not denigrate his athleticism by any means and I do not mean to imply that.
But there will be NO soccer player on your list who has excelled at the Big 3. Too much overlap in seasons...

[vms]

VMS there is no such thing as favoring a more talented player who is better. That makes no sense. I told all  my assistants at the j.v. and C team level that every player played in every game. I was less concerned with winning than in allowing players to develop. At the varsity level I told each player you may play the whole game some of you may not play at all. That is the way it is. I let each player know their role prior to the season starting, (after tryouts) and then they decided whether they could accept that role. I also told them how they could add to their role. I assume club soccer has some sort of tiered system also as far as playing time and winning. Once again I would say you are right for the primary soccer season. Lets say it is in the spring. A dual sport athlete who is playing soccer should put soccer above all else during this time. Now lets say that same player has a family vacation in the summer, team camp for his basketball team for a week, etc. Are you saying he or she should lose their spot even though they are better? If so then we will disagree. Once again I think there is a time and place for reprioritization and I worked with athletes. I would love to hear from a top PDL coach who says they would demote or cut an obviously better player because they did not participate as much during the off time of the year. If hard work and effort with some talent was all it took i would just be retiring from the NBA now. 

Excuse me but you and I are on a different page here when it comes to soccer at the youth level( U12/13/14). I have examples of boys who were playing different sports and rarely showing to practice yet getting a starting position over kids who showed 100%. If that is NOT favoritism, hmmmm!  Granted he may be the better athlete, but then he should be playing in an off the bench role. If he committed 100% AND he is the best, absolutely there is NO favoritism. Best man won! When parents are paying to play AND those kids are putting in the effort, those kids better play! or they better change teams 
Now again when these kids have ALL committed to the team at the older ages (above U14) and other than the odd practice miss, are there for every important game (and are not  trekking off  to their swim meet and missing League games), may the best boy start!

[basketballdad]

Yes we agree to disagree. If the player is better then he or she should play during the off peak times. You seem to continue to miss my main point for some reason. I keep stating it and you keep missing it. If the primary soccer season is spring, (I don't know so I am using this as an example) and the player misses practice, etc. then I agree with you totally. Soccer should be the priority. If you can't make it a priority during this time then sure you can sit the bench.  We are not in disagreement there. What I am referring to would be after spring season there is summer tournament season which is not as high a priority as say the spring. That is the time I am referring to. If you are saying that soccer is year round and must take precedence all the time then we disagree completely. Please understand what I am saying. I am agreeing with you during the primary season. If you are talking about other times then I am disagreeing with you.

[sissy]

VMS there is no such thing as favoring a more talented player who is better. That makes no sense. I told all  my assistants at the j.v. and C team level that every player played in every game. I was less concerned with winning than in allowing players to develop. At the varsity level I told each player you may play the whole game some of you may not play at all. That is the way it is. I let each player know their role prior to the season starting, (after tryouts) and then they decided whether they could accept that role. I also told them how they could add to their role. I assume club soccer has some sort of tiered system also as far as playing time and winning. Once again I would say you are right for the primary soccer season. Lets say it is in the spring. A dual sport athlete who is playing soccer should put soccer above all else during this time. Now lets say that same player has a family vacation in the summer, team camp for his basketball team for a week, etc. Are you saying he or she should lose their spot even though they are better? If so then we will disagree. Once again I think there is a time and place for reprioritization and I worked with athletes. I would love to hear from a top PDL coach who says they would demote or cut an obviously better player because they did not participate as much during the off time of the year. If hard work and effort with some talent was all it took i would just be retiring from the NBA now. 

Excuse me but you and I are on a different page here when it comes to soccer at the youth level( U12/13/14). I have examples of boys who were playing different sports and rarely showing to practice yet getting a starting position over kids who showed 100%. If that is NOT favoritism, hmmmm!  Granted he may be the better athlete, but then he should be playing in an off the bench role. If he committed 100% AND he is the best, absolutely there is NO favoritism. Best man won! When parents are paying to play AND those kids are putting in the effort, those kids better play! or they better change teams 
Now again when these kids have ALL committed to the team at the older ages (above U14) and other than the odd practice miss, are there for every important game (and are not  trekking off  to their swim meet and missing League games), may the best boy start!

100% agree on this one.  When the rules are not the same for everyone...then you have favoritism.  It's obvious to everyone...including, and more importantly, the kiddos on the team.  

[basketballdad]

The rules are not the issue. I think youth soccer is the issue. I am used to coaching under WIAA rules. There are specific seasons, times when you can coach your athletes out of season, and times when you cannot have any contact with your athletes. It is simple, straight forward, and while an ocassional coach will bend or break the rules it is usually followed by the all the coaches and teams in the state.

In youth sports I am very familiar with youth football and basketball. Once again you do not have any state authority regulating how often you can coach your players but even the most gung ho youth football players will play in the fall then maybe camps or passing leagues in the summer at most. Basketball wise there are teams that play 9 months out of the year at some levels but that is before the reach high school and they have mixed results. I am not a big fan of that but it is more rare than common practice. Baseball can get a little crazy but even then you are usually looking at spring summer combo for most players at the youth level.

Soccer seems to be unique in this sense is that you can literally play all year round every year. As you go up in competition there seems to be a push to specialize at an early age in order to be competitive. Therein lies my problem. No 11 year old I have ever seen, met, or heard of is going to independently say I want to play any sport all year. They can be coaxed, encouraged, motivated to do so but if you ever watch a 10 or 11 year old boy in P.E. playing a new game for the first time most athletes will dive into it. I think that part of the problem is that there does not seem to be any down time or more relaxed time in youth soccer. There is the basic flaw in my opinion and cause for concern. This would apply to the ocassional fastpitch, basketball, baseball team that does the same thing but it seems to be much more readily available and practiced in soccer. What makes soccer different would be my question?

[Left Foot]

--Soccer seems to be unique in this sense is that you can literally play all year round every year. As you go up in competition there seems to be a push to specialize at an early age in order to be competitive. Therein lies my problem. No 11 year old I have ever seen, met, or heard of is going to independently say I want to play any sport all year. They can be coaxed, encouraged, motivated to do so but if you ever watch a 10 or 11 year old boy in P.E. playing a new game for the first time most athletes will dive into it. I think that part of the problem is that there does not seem to be any down time or more relaxed time in youth soccer. There is the basic flaw in my opinion and cause for concern. This would apply to the ocassional fastpitch, basketball, baseball team that does the same thing but it seems to be much more readily available and practiced in soccer. What makes soccer different would be my question?--

Basketballdad

At the premier level, one can characterize the sport as year-round depending upon the team. However, there are lulls in activity. This allows many kids on "premier" teams to play multiple sports especially at the younger ages.

The periods where soccer is not the priority varies with the team. LImiting the season to Spring is a bit unrealistic for a top premier team. League runs from Jan thru April. State cup in May. If you win, regionals are at the end of June and if you win that, Nationals are at the end of July. After that, you may go to one of the more selective tourneys like Surf Cup in August. If you don't bring your A-team and A-game to Surf cup and are playing at the highest level, you will get your butt kicked fo sho. Here is where a real tension comes in. because teams are representing their club and it can look bad to get your clock cleaned. Sprinkled in here are things like the Nike Friendlies where, if you are invited, you get to play national teams and watch the WNT workout.

As for an 11 year old who says they want to play soccer all year round. Wait until you play a whole team of kids who have said and continue to do it!

[vms]

The rules are not the issue. I think youth soccer is the issue. I am used to coaching under WIAA rules. There are specific seasons, times when you can coach your athletes out of season, and times when you cannot have any contact with your athletes. It is simple, straight forward, and while an ocassional coach will bend or break the rules it is usually followed by the all the coaches and teams in the state.

In youth sports I am very familiar with youth football and basketball. Once again you do not have any state authority regulating how often you can coach your players but even the most gung ho youth football players will play in the fall then maybe camps or passing leagues in the summer at most. Basketball wise there are teams that play 9 months out of the year at some levels but that is before the reach high school and they have mixed results. I am not a big fan of that but it is more rare than common practice. Baseball can get a little crazy but even then you are usually looking at spring summer combo for most players at the youth level.

Soccer seems to be unique in this sense is that you can literally play all year round every year. As you go up in competition there seems to be a push to specialize at an early age in order to be competitive. Therein lies my problem. No 11 year old I have ever seen, met, or heard of is going to independently say I want to play any sport all year. They can be coaxed, encouraged, motivated to do so but if you ever watch a 10 or 11 year old boy in P.E. playing a new game for the first time most athletes will dive into it. I think that part of the problem is that there does not seem to be any down time or more relaxed time in youth soccer. There is the basic flaw in my opinion and cause for concern. This would apply to the ocassional fastpitch, basketball, baseball team that does the same thing but it seems to be much more readily available and practiced in soccer. What makes soccer different would be my question?

 Why not year round...it's the BEST sport!

[Brat Jr]

The rules are not the issue. I think youth soccer is the issue. I am used to coaching under WIAA rules. There are specific seasons, times when you can coach your athletes out of season, and times when you cannot have any contact with your athletes. It is simple, straight forward, and while an ocassional coach will bend or break the rules it is usually followed by the all the coaches and teams in the state.

In youth sports I am very familiar with youth football and basketball. Once again you do not have any state authority regulating how often you can coach your players but even the most gung ho youth football players will play in the fall then maybe camps or passing leagues in the summer at most. Basketball wise there are teams that play 9 months out of the year at some levels but that is before the reach high school and they have mixed results. I am not a big fan of that but it is more rare than common practice. Baseball can get a little crazy but even then you are usually looking at spring summer combo for most players at the youth level.

Soccer seems to be unique in this sense is that you can literally play all year round every year. As you go up in competition there seems to be a push to specialize at an early age in order to be competitive. Therein lies my problem. No 11 year old I have ever seen, met, or heard of is going to independently say I want to play any sport all year. They can be coaxed, encouraged, motivated to do so but if you ever watch a 10 or 11 year old boy in P.E. playing a new game for the first time most athletes will dive into it. I think that part of the problem is that there does not seem to be any down time or more relaxed time in youth soccer. There is the basic flaw in my opinion and cause for concern. This would apply to the ocassional fastpitch, basketball, baseball team that does the same thing but it seems to be much more readily available and practiced in soccer. What makes soccer different would be my question?

 Why not year round...it's the BEST sport!

spoken like a true fan!

[EWSoccer64]

There are a few kids who want to play year around.   There are many more parents who are happy with this happening.  There are coaches who do not want their team to be at a competitive disadvantage by other teams going year around while they take off for months.

Oh, and BBD, WIAA rules regarding out of season practicing get violated all the time.   We both know it.

[vms]

There are a few kids who want to play year around.   There are many more parents who are happy with this happening.  There are coaches who do not want their team to be at a competitive disadvantage by other teams going year around while they take off for months.

Oh, and BBD, WIAA rules regarding out of season practicing get violated all the time.   We both know it.

Yea, but he can't admit to it!

[basketballdad]

Yes I am sure where you come from there are violations but down here where almost everyone follows the rules it is rare.

[basketballdad]

Okay you have answered my question. Soccer is unique and parents and coaches fall into the trap of thinking that if we do not play year round they are at a competitive disadvantage. Thus, you have turned what is a youth sport into a job. As far as 11 year olds all buying into it I have a bridge to sell you. They are 11 and are motivated by success and adult praise. You could just as easily pick any other sport and with a good coach I could give them that same sort of feeling. Not very hard to do. I just have this  belief in age appropriate coaching, parenting, and anything else that goes along with it I believe in letting kids be kids. As someone who comes into high school athletes of both genders in various sports on a daily basis I have talked with everyone from the last person on the C team bench to d 1 future Olympian who graduated from our school. There is something to be said to seeing the before and after. Just as I totally coach 4th graders differently than 8th graders than I would seniors in high school I believe that sports are the same. There is a time and place for harcore competition and intensity. There is a time where athletes find their passion and pursue it. They all don' t happen at 11.  Coming from someone who was the epitome of competition, (sometimes in a bad way I find it amusing and ironic that I am the one saying this).

[freekick]

Hey basketballdad--

I think you are on the right track with the 11 year olds.  As I mentioned before, my dk and our family did not drink the premier soccer koolaid until U14....however, it has been nothing but a fun and rewarding experience for my teenager.  I really believe that allowing my dk to experience other sports and not get totally stuck on one, makes the kid love soccer more than some of the teammates that have been on this team since U11.  Some are a bit jaded and some have the attitude that they are "owed" a spot.  They are definitely in the minority.  I have also witnessed a few of them lose their edge, maybe because puberty caught up with the smaller ones that had to work on their skills and not rely on their size to be competetive.  The saddest thing is that I have also seen some of my friends kids drop out entirely because by high school they are burned out and it is no longer fun anymore.  Too many camps, too much pressure at a young age.  Make sure your kid is driving the soccer train, not you the parent.

[Sage Dancer]

BBD:  Soccer "development" has a bottom line:  it's all about the number of touches.  There are great athletes who play soccer.  There are great soccer players who are okay athletes.  But the combination of great athleticism and great playing ability occurs rarely, and not without an early start.  

[sissy]

Hey basketballdad--

I think you are on the right track with the 11 year olds.  As I mentioned before, my dk and our family did not drink the premier soccer koolaid until U14....however, it has been nothing but a fun and rewarding experience for my teenager.  I really believe that allowing my dk to experience other sports and not get totally stuck on one, makes the kid love soccer more than some of the teammates that have been on this team since U11.  Some are a bit jaded and some have the attitude that they are "owed" a spot.  They are definitely in the minority.  I have also witnessed a few of them lose their edge, maybe because puberty caught up with the smaller ones that had to work on their skills and not rely on their size to be competetive.  The saddest thing is that I have also seen some of my friends kids drop out entirely because by high school they are burned out and it is no longer fun anymore.  Too many camps, too much pressure at a young age.Make sure your kid is driving the soccer train, not you the parent.

It is a very sad day  :'(