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[HandBall]

Dragon,
I know.  Obama won, but I just can't let it go.  Why not come defend the President's actions in his first 4 weeks in office and set me straight?  If I had so much invested in getting him elected, I think I'd jump at the opportunity to defend the great things he's done so far.

• Taxpayer-funded foreign abortions.
• Closing Gitmo without a plan for the detainees.
• Dismissing charges against the USS Cole bombers.
• Stopping tribunals that could result in release of Gitmo terrorists.
• Proposing 10% cuts to Defense while at war.
• Working to meet with Iran's leader unconditionally while his anti-Israel threats, missile tests and nuclear ambitions proceed unabated.
• Proposing unilateral strategic defense reductions to curry favor with Russia.
• Promising to stop enforcement of federal drug laws.
• Nominating a Porn lawyer to deputy AG.
• Appointing an admitted Socialist and Global Warming alarmist as Energy Czar.
• Appointing tax cheats to HHS, Treasury, and others.
• Order imposing salary caps on private corporate leaders.
• Pushing a $1.2 Trillion Stimulus package without including any Republican proposals.
• Sneaking universal health care and mandatory government oversight of every medical decision by your doctor into the bill.
• What other wondrous things have I left out? Start your own list.

Boy, I can't wait to see what happens in the next 204 weeks.

[HandBall]

Hey, in the category of "what is your vote worth", check out this news just off the AP wire.

The "Stimulus" bill includes Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" tax credit for 95 percent of workers.  Yes, this is the rebate to those who pay taxes, and the welfare check to those 40% of Americans who pay zero income taxes.  But here is the bad news.  Even though Obama promised $1,000 per individual, he just couldn't fit it into the $1.3 Trillion bill.  Nope, the golf carts, the icebreakers, and all those "these aren't earmarks" were more important.

Nope, Democrat negotiators between the House and Senate last night, without Republicans to even get in the way, cut the payment to just $400 a year, instead of the $500 that was in the bills yesterday, or $800 for married couples.  And instead of a check for the entire massive windfall, workers will begin getting their payments in their paychecks starting in June as an extra $13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January.

So for those who voted for Obama to get stimulated, you can look forward to a couple extra Latte's a month.  At least until Obama ends the Bush tax cuts, then you'll lose $500 per child in the Child Tax Credit, and your vote will probably have cost you money.

Elections mean things, and this is a tough lesson in the real world.  If this wasn't so sad it would be laughable, especially with the folks in the Obama Town Halls now begging for cars and houses they expected to get paid for by the government.

[soccerdiva]

Hey handball you really should just let it go that your guy did not win.  You obviously are not an Obama fan so anything he does will be wrong in your narrow mind.

[sissy]

Hey handball you really should just let it go that your guy did not win.  You obviously are not an Obama fan so anything he does will be wrong in your narrow mind.

Soccerdiva, did your guy win?  Maybe you can answer/defend/support some of the proposed changes in our new administration....how about Healthcare?  That will impact each and every one of us.  Our parents will be first hit and we are right around the corner.  Are you in favor of this?  How will this help stimulate the economy exactly?

I'm seriously just looking for someone to explain how this is a good thing

[Squash]

I think Dragon is not interested in commenting because Politics can make people mad and can tend to change peoples opinions about you. Dragon is a great spokeman for soccer and does a great job in the CrazyParents section....why make enemies based solely on politics?

I don't know the real reason he's not responding but am guessing it has to do with trying to not make enemies based on politics.

I honestly have to say that i find Handballs posts informative and although I want to give OUR President the fair chance he deserves, I was personally disappointed by some of his choices for top positions. I'm not a fan of people who have bad moral and ethical flaws being in top positions, because it's those type of people that got us into many of the financial problems and economic problems we now face. Plenty of you like to blame Bush, but the fact is all across this country upper executives have been stealing ALL of OUR dollars and living the life of the RICH and FAMOUS. This country at the highest level suffers from bad MORALS and ETHICS......

Let's also remember that like any section of the forum...... you can choose not to read it if it bothers you.

[PrideNJoy]

since you posted J, I decided to read. 
oh, another thing Squash, why is it no one can give you karma

[Squash]

since you posted J, I decided to read. 
oh, another thing Squash, why is it no one can give you karma

really? I had no idea...... odd, maybe because I'm the admin? Does it not show the karma stuff for me? I know I can't see my own but honestly I don't know

[Squash]

since you posted J, I decided to read. 
oh, another thing Squash, why is it no one can give you karma

really? I had no idea...... odd, maybe because I'm the admin? Does it not show the karma stuff for me? I know I can't see my own but honestly I don't know

i think it's because i updated the forum a few nights ago...I'm surprised it works for anyone now. I used to be able to have mine, you are right. I may have to look for the mod and see if there is an update, if not then I guess just I'll not have it.

[PrideNJoy]

oh, you have it, it just doesn't add to your tally when we give you the good stuff

[Squash]

oh, you have it, it just doesn't add to your tally when we give you the good stuff

Maybe I am maxed out? No idea brother. Now you have me looking into why!!!!!! Doh!!!!

what about now?

[soccerdiva]

Soccerdiva, did your guy win?  Maybe you can answer/defend/support some of the proposed changes in our new administration....how about Healthcare?  That will impact each and every one of us.  Our parents will be first hit and we are right around the corner.  Are you in favor of this?  How will this help stimulate the economy exactly?

I'm seriously just looking for someone to explain how this is a good thing

Sissy I am not on here to answer/support or defend any of the proposed changes in our new administration. 

I am hoping that people like handball will look for ways and ideas to improve our country not look for ways to bring it further down. ?Maybe  if people spent the same amount of time and effort looking for solutions instead of complaining everyone would be better off.  So basically everyone should try to focus on the positive and look for ways to fix what they see as negatives.

Fixed your quote in post - Squash

[HandBall]

I think Dragon is not interested in commenting because Politics can make people mad and can tend to change peoples opinions about you. Dragon is a great spokeman for soccer and does a great job in the CrazyParents section....why make enemies based solely on politics?

I don't know the real reason he's not responding but am guessing it has to do with trying to not make enemies based on politics.

I honestly have to say that i find Handballs posts informative and although I want to give OUR President the fair chance he deserves, I was personally disappointed by some of his choices for top positions. I'm not a fan of people who have bad moral and ethical flaws being in top positions, because it's those type of people that got us into many of the financial problems and economic problems we now face. Plenty of you like to blame Bush, but the fact is all across this country upper executives have been stealing ALL of OUR dollars and living the life of the RICH and FAMOUS. This country at the highest level suffers from bad MORALS and ETHICS......

Let's also remember that like any section of the forum...... you can choose not to read it if it bothers you.

Squash, I'm not trying to pick a fight with Dragon, but it was Dragon that used this forum area to promote Obama and spread all sorts of very unflattering stuff about John McCain, including his admission that he was spreading many of the lies and smears of MoveOn.org, the same group that attacked the honor and patriotism of General David Petraeus for simply trying to win the Iraq War. 

Now it's not that I was all the excited about McCain, but I tried my best to raise issues and promote discussion.  I know I can sound harsh, but I do try to be civil and tolerant of others, but I certainly need to work on that.  But I've always believed that an informed electorate is vital to the security and prosperity of America.  But while I tried in vain to address issues, Dragon's general response was to throw more unfair or unsupportable charges against McCain.  And he wasn't entirely alone, so this isn't all about Dragon.  After the election, his attitude was simply that his guy had won and we should get over it.  Then he left the discussion with the promise to return at the next election.  Well, that's a long time away to wait to discuss the consequences of his support or my opposition.

Now that some time has passed, and since we now have a full 4 weeks of actual substance to base a review of the president on, I thought that perhaps, Dragon might wish to take the opportunity to continue the defense he shared pretty regularly of Obama's words, or acknowledge that some or much of that the president is doing is not what he expected, or supports?  Since we're well beyond words and into some pretty serious actions that will impact every American, I'd like to know where this forum's primary supporter of Obama now stands?  I'm genuinely curious.

If he is concerned about making people mad, some of his comments before and after the election certainly had the effect on some, myself included.  Particularly since I tried to discuss issues that few were interested in.  This could be an opportunity to find some common ground on the substance of the man, instead of different people's interpretations of the hope of change they found in the president's words.

This thread could be deleted tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me a bit, but I tend to appreciate the opportunity to discuss issues in an otherwise "political-discussion-verboten" society.  When people are forced to judge the many sides of an issue, it will generally result in a far more beneficial outcome that people simply hearing one viewpoint, that is all too often the case in our current liberal media versus FoxNews environment.

Finally, why is it that I appear to get 2 "Wickeds" for every "Wonderful"?  Is what I say really that unwelcome in a Politics forum?  Or are the wickeds simply votes objecting to the issues I raise and the points I make?

[HandBall]

I am hoping that people like handball will look for ways and ideas to improve our country not look for ways to bring it further down. ?Maybe  if people spent the same amount of time and effort looking for solutions instead of complaining everyone would be better off.  So basically everyone should try to focus on the positive and look for ways to fix what they see as negatives.

For the record diva, you have no idea the amount of time I have sacrificed in my life to fight for what I believe in.  You have no clue the corruption I've fought and you have no idea the personal sacrifices I've made trying to find solutions and solve problems.  But as a supporter - ever-more loosely - of the Republican Party, I have an ever-shrinking voice in this society.  When I point out the obvious failures of this president in just 4 weeks, I am not trying to bring him down, because frankly, that cannot happen.  What I am trying to do is slap Americans in the face who placed their hopes and dreams on the image that was crafted by the left for them to adhere to.  Because I believe in my heart of hearts that America is OVER unless people learn to be humble and accept that they have been manipulated by a Marxist political machine and its allies in media to not only believe the lies, but to advance them as unwitting soldiers of the left. 

You want ideas?  The ideas are there, but they are being ignored.  They are being demonized.  They are being lied about.  And every time one gets elevated to the point where people might get a glimmer, the Marxist media simply crushes it.

Republicans have offered great ideas, but no one is listening.  Republicans like Ronald Reagan took an economy in far worse shape than this and fixed it.  Not by raising taxes and exploding spending, but by cutting taxes and letting Americans spend THEIR own money.  But who cares about ideas right now? Not he media, not Pelosi, and certainly not Obama.  No one seems to care about actually solving problems on the left, because problems lead to more government, which leads to more power, which leads to more control.  So the more unsolved problems the better if you're a Marxist.

That is the battle, and that is the battle that appears lost.  That is why I persist with facts and issues over the empty symbolism offered by the left.  That is why I am genuinely interested if people like Dragon are waking up.

You can focus on all the positives you like.  Build us a list of how the Democrats have improved society one bit in the last 20 years.  If you want positives, you go first!

I wanted to add this too.

The day that folks out here, those paying really close attention to the growing failures of government, stop fighting for, and excuse the silliness of this, "Truth, Justice and the American Way", then America is over.  And when I use the phrase, "the American Way", I honestly don't believe that it has EVER been at risk like it is right now.

[sissy]

Soccerdiva, did your guy win?  Maybe you can answer/defend/support some of the proposed changes in our new administration....how about Healthcare?  That will impact each and every one of us.  Our parents will be first hit and we are right around the corner.  Are you in favor of this?  How will this help stimulate the economy exactly?

I'm seriously just looking for someone to explain how this is a good thing

Sissy I am not on here to answer/support or defend any of the proposed changes in our new administration. 

I am hoping that people like handball will look for ways and ideas to improve our country not look for ways to bring it further down. ?Maybe  if people spent the same amount of time and effort looking for solutions instead of complaining everyone would be better off.  So basically everyone should try to focus on the positive and look for ways to fix what they see as negatives.

Fixed your quote in post - Squash

[Brat Jr]

oh, you have it, it just doesn't add to your tally when we give you the good stuff

It hasn't added to Squashs in months :'(

[yote19]

I just made him go from 60001 to 60002

[Brat Jr]

I just made him go from 60001 to 60002

and now he is at 60003 
I think he was just at the top karma level and wouldn't go any higher before

[yote19]

And now you are at 481

[PrideNJoy]

oh, you have it, it just doesn't add to your tally when we give you the good stuff

It hasn't added to Squashs in months :'(

yeah, i know........just finally got fed up and said something.  all better now Squishy

[Squash]

Handball.... i thought I'd give you a boost and give you twice as much Wonderful as Wicked!!! I look at it this way on the karma...... if you are getting a bunch of wicked for posts on politics, it's because you touch a nerve and cause people to think and feel uncomfortable. That's not always a bad thing if you ask me.

I would never take karma personal..... i personally love your political posts, not because i agree with all of them but because they make me think and stimulate my mnd. I say keep it up. 

[sissy]

Always +1 for those who make me stop and think and those who make me laugh.  Smites are not my thing, if I don't agree with you, I'll tell you or I won't bother reading...that's just how I roll. 

Keep up the good work Handball and all who contribute to this forum who stop and make us all think about our choices

[EWSoccer64]

>>>I am hoping that people like handball will look for ways and ideas to improve our country not look for ways to bring it further down. ?<<<

Is not fighting against the excesses of a political party a positive thing?
Is not trying to stop programs, policies and spending that will likely prove ruinous to our country, our economy and our way of life a worthy way of trying to improve the country?
Is not trying to identify and stop what is wrong doing something to improve the situation?

[goldengoal]

Soccerdiva, did your guy win?  Maybe you can answer/defend/support some of the proposed changes in our new administration....how about Healthcare?  That will impact each and every one of us.  Our parents will be first hit and we are right around the corner.  Are you in favor of this?  How will this help stimulate the economy exactly?

I'm seriously just looking for someone to explain how this is a good thing

Sissy I am not on here to answer/support or defend any of the proposed changes in our new administration. 

I am hoping that people like handball will look for ways and ideas to improve our country not look for ways to bring it further down. ?Maybe  if people spent the same amount of time and effort looking for solutions instead of complaining everyone would be better off.  So basically everyone should try to focus on the positive and look for ways to fix what they see as negatives.

Fixed your quote in post - Squash

Yes, kinda like everyone did when Bush was in office- supportive no matter what he did- 

[HandBall]

Handball.... i thought I'd give you a boost and give you twice as much Wonderful as Wicked!!! I look at it this way on the karma...... if you are getting a bunch of wicked for posts on politics, it's because you touch a nerve and cause people to think and feel uncomfortable. That's not always a bad thing if you ask me.

I would never take karma personal..... i personally love your political posts, not because i agree with all of them but because they make me think and stimulate my mnd. I say keep it up. 

I appreciate the offer, but I'd prefer seeing how people are actually responding.  I treat the wickeds as the scorecard in the success or failure of my comments and posts to make people think.  I figure that the wickeds come from the folks with the closed minds who are just angry that anyone would challenge their belief systems.  But that is the real problem, isn't it?  When people place their beliefs, regardless of the source, above facts and evidence that disproves those beliefs, then we are in big trouble in America.

I don't pretend to believe that peoples' minds will be changed, but perhaps people will become more tolerant of viewpoints that they don't share and consider the arguments instead of simply clicking wicked and keeping their minds closed.  I can hope, can't I?

I'm glad that there are some out there that appreciate my comments. 

[Squash]

Handball.... i thought I'd give you a boost and give you twice as much Wonderful as Wicked!!! I look at it this way on the karma...... if you are getting a bunch of wicked for posts on politics, it's because you touch a nerve and cause people to think and feel uncomfortable. That's not always a bad thing if you ask me.

I would never take karma personal..... i personally love your political posts, not because i agree with all of them but because they make me think and stimulate my mnd. I say keep it up. 

I appreciate the offer, but I'd prefer seeing how people are actually responding.  I treat the wickeds as the scorecard in the success or failure of my comments and posts to make people think.  I figure that the wickeds come from the folks with the closed minds who are just angry that anyone would challenge their belief systems.  But that is the real problem, isn't it?  When people place their beliefs, regardless of the source, above facts and evidence that disproves those beliefs, then we are in big trouble in America.

I don't pretend to believe that peoples' minds will be changed, but perhaps people will become more tolerant of viewpoints that they don't share and consider the arguments instead of simply clicking wicked and keeping their minds closed.  I can hope, can't I?

I'm glad that there are some out there that appreciate my comments. 

I read your posts every time I see a new one.......I don't always agree but I feel like I know more because of them. Are they biased...of course, but during election time it was hard to find a Network (MSNBC) being the worst that wasn't under Obama's desk.  Keith UberStupid being so far to one side that he should just take up permanent refuge under the desk in the oval office.

[PrideNJoy]

Handball.... i thought I'd give you a boost and give you twice as much Wonderful as Wicked!!! I look at it this way on the karma...... if you are getting a bunch of wicked for posts on politics, it's because you touch a nerve and cause people to think and feel uncomfortable. That's not always a bad thing if you ask me.

I would never take karma personal..... i personally love your political posts, not because i agree with all of them but because they make me think and stimulate my mnd. I say keep it up. 

I appreciate the offer, but I'd prefer seeing how people are actually responding.  I treat the wickeds as the scorecard in the success or failure of my comments and posts to make people think.  I figure that the wickeds come from the folks with the closed minds who are just angry that anyone would challenge their belief systems.  But that is the real problem, isn't it?  When people place their beliefs, regardless of the source, above facts and evidence that disproves those beliefs, then we are in big trouble in America.

I don't pretend to believe that peoples' minds will be changed, but perhaps people will become more tolerant of viewpoints that they don't share and consider the arguments instead of simply clicking wicked and keeping their minds closed.  I can hope, can't I?

I'm glad that there are some out there that appreciate my comments. 

I read your posts every time I see a new one.......I don't always agree but I feel like I know more because of them. Are they biased...of course, but during election time it was hard to find a Network (MSNBC) being the worst that wasn't under Obama's desk.  Keith UberStupid being so far to one side that he should just take up permanent refuge under the desk in the oval office.

yeah, but who really gives that guy Kieth that much credibility any way.  I've been called a lot of things, indirectly in this thread by what I believe.  The reading does make me think that's for sure, and I've seen things from both sides a bit more lately because of it.  But UberStupid and all those who like you say are so completely in the bag lose credibilty from the get go with me.  It's easy to have opinions if ya only get one side of it and always think you know the issues.  trouble is, it's often wrong.

good on ya hb for exposing both sides........well, at least from your point of view

[HandBall]

Keith UberStupid being so far to one side that he should just take up permanent refuge under the desk in the oval office.

It's interesting that NBC doesn't seem to care about Olberman and the impact he has on ratings after his incredibly lopsided love-fest for the president.  Then again, with NBC owned by GE who's president is one of Obama's biggest allies, it's no surprise.  Thankfully,  I can avoid MSNBC pretty easily, and I do.  But I found I was unable to even watch the Super Bowl pregame with Olberman doing the anchoring of NBC's coverage. 

It worked out well, though.  I just put in some old Super Bowls I had on tape and had a blast watching commercials from the 80s along with historic events like Ronald Reagan flipping the coin in the 1985 Bowl between the 49ers and Miami.  It was also pretty refreshing  listening to his inspiring comments about the hoping that the better team wins without being divisive and selfish in selecting his perference.  It was my son who commented to me about Obama's siding with Pittsburgh, as if the Steelers need any more help - referring to the help they got against the Seahawks from the referees.  Even in comments about the Super Bowl, the Great Unifier couldn't resist placing his own wishes first, even if it put him on the opposite side as half of America.

[basketballdad]

I find the whole karma thing hilarious. Mine started going negative faster than normal when I started posting in politics instead of soccer. I just speak and let the chips fall where they may. Handball, Reagon with Democrats in many ways to get done what he wanted. It is a little known secret that he was a pretty bi partisan president since he had democratic majorities in all but two years of his presidency. I see Obama attempting to do the same thing. Unfortunately in this bitter partisan atmosphere it is significantly more difficult. I remember Democrats really disagreeing with Reagan and some even ridiculued his intellect. However, they would put that aside and vote for some bills that he wanted if they felt it was good for the country. Shoot, when Clinton was president he helped pass some of the Contract with America from the Republicans which was his genius. At times Republicans were left with "Hey that was our idea first" statements. In the case of welfare reform they were right but Clinton tried to take credit for it. My point being both the Republicans and Democrats were more reasonable back then which was not so long ago. Sadly, is it more about posturing, partisanship at all costs, and less and less about the country.

[Jumbalaya]

I find the whole karma thing hilarious. Mine started going negative faster than normal when I started posting in politics instead of soccer. I just speak and let the chips fall where they may. Handball, Reagon with Democrats in many ways to get done what he wanted. It is a little known secret that he was a pretty bi partisan president since he had democratic majorities in all but two years of his presidency. I see Obama attempting to do the same thing. Unfortunately in this bitter partisan atmosphere it is significantly more difficult. I remember Democrats really disagreeing with Reagan and some even ridiculued his intellect. However, they would put that aside and vote for some bills that he wanted if they felt it was good for the country. Shoot, when Clinton was president he helped pass some of the Contract with America from the Republicans which was his genius. At times Republicans were left with "Hey that was our idea first" statements. In the case of welfare reform they were right but Clinton tried to take credit for it. My point being both the Republicans and Democrats were more reasonable back then which was not so long ago. Sadly, is it more about posturing, partisanship at all costs, and less and less about the country.

Right on!!!
Power to the People!

+1 from me!

[basketballdad]

Thanks Jumbalaya for the nice words. Power to the people is right. I just wish more would exercise that power.