Topic: Question on Academy (Read 6447 times)

2muchsoccer · « **on:** March 08, 2009, 09:32:32 PM »

I have read about the academy, and little talk with people on the academy, but wondering on pros/cons on it.
Any help is a big help, thanks!

1usa1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2009, 09:38:08 PM »

You can read the entire Academy proposal on the USSF website.

Old Dog · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2009, 11:18:18 AM »

Quote from: 2muchsoccer on March 08, 2009, 09:32:32 PM

I have read about the academy, and little talk with people on the academy, but wondering on pros/cons on it.
Any help is a big help, thanks!

Here is a link to the Main Academy web site.

From here you can see the standings, the clubs involved and overall just get a better picture about "what" it is.

http://ussda.demosphere.com/

2muchsoccer · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2009, 11:26:34 AM »

Thanks for info. I have read the articles before, but was really hoping to hear from players or parents on what they thought of the over all program. Pros/cons, if any at all? Does it seem to work for them, not work?

goldengoal · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2009, 11:32:56 AM »

Quote from: 2muchsoccer on March 09, 2009, 11:26:34 AM

Thanks for info. I have read the articles before, but was really hoping to hear from players or parents on what they thought of the over all program. Pros/cons, if any at all? Does it seem to work for them, not work?

It is a plus for a player wanting to play at the highest level, but not sure it is good for the parent if they are investing a lot of money into it. If they are not investing money, then it is a plus for all because the academy should be for the benefit of the soccer player and American soccer without the family having to pay for it.

2muchsoccer · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2009, 12:52:55 PM »

Let me shed more light on why I ask pros/cons...
So DK's coach says "no good". Of course he says that, he doesn't want to lose his players to the academy. I get it. Says team will be highest level of competition and tourneys so not needed.
Then I hear about the academy, need to go to get the highest level. No team alone will get this. Need to get in now to ensure a spot on team. Apparently it is harder to get on later on?

I read, and read about it but of course they will tell me it is wonderful.
I know the academy hasn't been around long but just wondering if any regrets of leaving club team to join? Did you get the "best" competition, etc..

1usa1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:19:30 PM »

Biggest con involves potential of not much playing time. Because the academy substitution rule does NOT allow rentry coaches are going to be very careful about subbing out their best players. The academy rules state that each player MUST start in a minimum of 25% of the games but nothing is said about playing time...in theory a "bench" player could fulfill this requirement and not play many minutes at all. IMHO just being a member of an academy team is pretty meaningless if you hardly ever play. Be better off playing alot on a club team.

juggles · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:32:26 PM »

Quote from: 1usa1 on March 09, 2009, 02:19:30 PM

Biggest con involves potential of not much playing time. Because the academy substitution rule does NOT allow rentry coaches are going to be very careful about subbing out their best players. The academy rules state that each player MUST start in a minimum of 25% of the games but nothing is said about playing time...in theory a "bench" player could fulfill this requirement and not play many minutes at all. IMHO just being a member of an academy team is pretty meaningless if you hardly ever play. Be better off playing alot on a club team.

Very good observation...problem is that many players don't really know where they stand when making the commitment to leave current team.

goldengoal · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:41:47 PM »

Quote from: 2muchsoccer on March 09, 2009, 12:52:55 PM

Let me shed more light on why I ask pros/cons...
So DK's coach says "no good". Of course he says that, he doesn't want to lose his players to the academy. I get it. Says team will be highest level of competition and tourneys so not needed.
Then I hear about the academy, need to go to get the highest level. No team alone will get this. Need to get in now to ensure a spot on team. Apparently it is harder to get on later on?

I read, and read about it but of course they will tell me it is wonderful.
I know the academy hasn't been around long but just wondering if any regrets of leaving club team to join? Did you get the "best" competition, etc..

Again, if your DK has aspirations of playing collegiately/US Team/professionally and you don't have to pay the cost, then it is a good idea to play with the best against the best. Some may argue whether or not the best are really there, but I would argue that the program is supposed to be for the very best players who want to play at the next highest level for a chance to play professionally/collegiately/US Team etc. If there are better players out there, then obviously they are not interested in playing for these reasons. Is your DK interested in this? If not, then don't do it, if so then try out.

vms · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2009, 03:58:10 PM »

A topic that will never die...

Just ask the NWN BU17 team what they think of the Academy now that they have disbanded after going to the Finals last week!Several boys went to the Academy leaving the team in disarray. Those remaining boys were told last nite that there would be no BU17 team for next season and they need to look for another team...quickly. (What is weird is that at tryouts the other nite there were almost 50 kids out for the NWN BU17s! Strange that a team could not be constructed from that as there were 8 boys willing to return. Some political machinations may be ongoing that are further reaching than Academy defections.)

As for the Academy, agree that if your kid is good enough to be a starter on the Academy team then it is probably a great idea if interested in playing College, MLS etc. The exposure is presumably better than Club .The time commitment however is far greater than Club. And for those who have some HS pride, XF does not let you play HS ball; WPFC does. The Sounders will undoubtedly dip their toe into this arena and then the question is "Are there enough Academy players at any one age group such that each team does not field a diluted product on the pitch?" If your team is getting spanked (see XF U16s) is it that much fun???

Some boys do not stick with the Academy as witnessed by several key defections from XF and WPFC this past week.The reasons vary. Yet some kids despite not seeing much time on the field continue to stay with it. Cannot answer the question "Why?". But for all the $$ spent, if my kid was on the Academy and not seeing regular PT, it would seem a wasted year...Club ball is still quite good in P1!!

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:38:55 AM »

Crossfire has been known to make exceptions to the No-HS play rule, or at least simply turn a blind eye to the non-comformists.

vms · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:21:16 PM »

Quote from: EWSoccer64 on March 10, 2009, 04:38:55 AM

Crossfire has been known to make exceptions to the No-HS play rule, or at least simply turn a blind eye to the non-comformists.

Hmmm.Don't think so. Saffle did not come to Skyline last year as keeper despite being the #1 as a sophomore.Rowe hasn't gone back to FedWay. Know several boys on U16s who did not play HS either. who are the "noncomformists"?

Old Dog · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:25:35 PM »

Quote from: vms on March 10, 2009, 12:21:16 PM

Quote from: EWSoccer64 on March 10, 2009, 04:38:55 AM
Crossfire has been known to make exceptions to the No-HS play rule, or at least simply turn a blind eye to the non-comformists.

Hmmm.Don't think so. Saffle did not come to Skyline last year as keeper despite being the #1 as a sophomore.Rowe hasn't gone back to FedWay. Know several boys on U16s who did not play HS either. who are the "noncomformists"?

You are looking in the wrong area. You need to look in EW.

lugnut · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:49:56 PM »

Quote from: vms on March 10, 2009, 12:21:16 PM

Quote from: EWSoccer64 on March 10, 2009, 04:38:55 AM
Crossfire has been known to make exceptions to the No-HS play rule, or at least simply turn a blind eye to the non-comformists.

Hmmm.Don't think so. Saffle did not come to Skyline last year as keeper despite being the #1 as a sophomore.Rowe hasn't gone back to FedWay. Know several boys on U16s who did not play HS either. who are the "noncomformists"?

The 4 USSF Academy teams are allowed to carry a number of "developmental players" on their rosters. Since those boys get the minimum playing time, they are excused from the "no HS rule" and are even allowed to take part in ODP. Sadly, these developmental players are same boys who were non-starters or cut from their previous teams.

According to the grapevine, one player actually "quit" Crossfire's Academy team to play HS soccer last year, and then was allowed to re-join the program.

juggles · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:24:28 PM »

Quote

The 4 USSF Academy teams are allowed to carry a number of "developmental players" on their rosters. Since those boys get the minimum playing time, they are excused from the "no HS rule" and are even allowed to take part in ODP. Sadly, these developmental players are same boys who were non-starters or cut from their previous teams.

The following is from the Academy website. " Developmental Players: Each Academy Club may submit a list of
Developmental Players for each Academy Team to participate in Academy games. A Developmental
Player must be a currently registered player on an Academy Club’s non-Academy Team" Because these players must also be rostered to their age appropriate club team they tend to be players who perhaps are inbetween the talent levels of FT academy players and their club teammates. They are permitted to play in a maximum of 6 academy games during the season and can be promoted to FT academy players.

vms · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:42:50 PM »

Quote from: juggles on March 10, 2009, 04:24:28 PM

Quote
The 4 USSF Academy teams are allowed to carry a number of "developmental players" on their rosters. Since those boys get the minimum playing time, they are excused from the "no HS rule" and are even allowed to take part in ODP. Sadly, these developmental players are same boys who were non-starters or cut from their previous teams.

The following is from the Academy website. " Developmental Players: Each Academy Club may submit a list of
Developmental Players for each Academy Team to participate in Academy games. A Developmental
Player must be a currently registered player on an Academy Club’s non-Academy Team" Because these players must also be rostered to their age appropriate club team they tend to be players who perhaps are inbetween the talent levels of FT academy players and their club teammates. They are permitted to play in a maximum of 6 academy games during the season and can be promoted to FT academy players.

Hmmm...truly a boy "without" a true home...what a drag

juggles · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:58:49 PM »

Quote

Hmmm...truly a boy "without" a true home...what a drag

Certainly wasn't true for my DK. He is a starter on BU 16 state cup champ team so will play at regionals. Also does ODP. PLUS he can play in 6 academy games. I'd say that's the best of both worlds

famj · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:00:27 PM »

worse yet, how'd you like to be one of the full time academy players who doesn't see a lot of time because of the no re-entry and only 3 subs a game rules, who finally has a chance to play and instead sees a 'developmental' player get his time!

reporter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:46:32 PM »

7 subs a game are allowed at the academy level, reentry allowed 2nd half, and there is 30% required starts for all FT players. Are there any other play time requirements with Academy or guidelines from USSDA on play time for players? I've heard that playtime is a huge issue at XF, somewhat less on WPFC where there is an attempt to get more players into the game, and the coach actually does some subbing.

lugnut · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:11:40 PM »

Quote from: juggles on March 10, 2009, 04:24:28 PM

Quote
The 4 USSF Academy teams are allowed to carry a number of "developmental players" on their rosters. Since those boys get the minimum playing time, they are excused from the "no HS rule" and are even allowed to take part in ODP. Sadly, these developmental players are same boys who were non-starters or cut from their previous teams.

The following is from the Academy website. " Developmental Players: Each Academy Club may submit a list of
Developmental Players for each Academy Team to participate in Academy games. A Developmental
Player must be a currently registered player on an Academy Club’s non-Academy Team" Because these players must also be rostered to their age appropriate club team they tend to be players who perhaps are inbetween the talent levels of FT academy players and their club teammates. They are permitted to play in a maximum of 6 academy games during the season and can be promoted to FT academy players.

My bad. I was looking at the stats on the USSF site, and assumed the players who had not played or played very little were the Developmental players.

juggles · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2009, 12:17:11 AM »

Quote

7 subs a game are allowed at the academy level, reentry allowed 2nd half, and there is 30% required starts for all FT players

These were from last season. Current season players are required to start 25% of games and there is no reentry allowed once a player is subbed out.

reporter · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:39:21 PM »

Stand correcting on new substitution rules, but question: I could not find the new rules on USSDA site, where are they published? Does anyone know if the minutes to the academy coaches best practices meetings are published, and where they are located?

I have heard there are "recommendations" that come down from the USSF coaches best practices meeting regarding player development in the academy to foster a "meaningful training and competition model that will ultimately lead to more success and will allow players to develop to their full potential." According to WPFC member, their club tries to adhere to a 60% play time recommendation for players in addition to 30% starts. If you look at the games played stats in the academy teams http://ussda.demosphere.com/Profiles/index_E.html, you will see that most academy teams are getting play time spread amongst their 18 required rostered players which supports the academy goal of player development. WPFC is a good example, congratulations to their program for following the spirit of academy rules, and their U16 team is certainly showing well, first place in their division. Only 4 players on both WPFC rosters have less than 3 games played, with 5-7 starters getting most games played on both of their academy teams, with the rest of the roster sharing play time. Compare to XF stats which has 14! players with less than 3 games on its two rosters and has 9-11 starters on both rosters. Not much competition here for spots, seems like starters have them locked up. If not a starter for XF, welcome to the bench. Quite a remarkable difference in XF stats and the rest of the league. And judging from the turnover of players and academy coaches from XF, the stats are doing the talking. Also compare the difference in college recruiting numbers of boys vs girls at XF. 26 senior girls signed vs 11 senior boys, 10 junior girls with verbal commitments vs 2 junior boys. The academy is suppose to enhance college opportunities for its players. Congratulations to XF girls program for placing so many candidates.

The new academy rules could support more even play time and development of the player if the rules were played within the recommendations to the coaches. Seems that WPFC has gotten the message. I've heard coaches grumbling for years about James taking the best talent in the region and benching it. Seems like his stats support the rumors.

vms · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:27:32 PM »

Quote from: famj on March 10, 2009, 06:00:27 PM

worse yet, how'd you like to be one of the full time academy players who doesn't see a lot of time because of the no re-entry and only 3 subs a game rules, who finally has a chance to play and instead sees a 'developmental' player get his time!

As I have said before, IF you are NOT a preferred starter then there may be NO benefit to being in the Academy especially at XF! Just to say you wear the XF jersey but don't see any time is an utter waste of time, energy and money! What benefit there is eludes me...and please don't say that practice 4 times a week is better than 3 practices and a game re:development!

2muchsoccer · « **Reply #23 on:** March 11, 2009, 11:55:18 PM »

Thinking with all the rambling of info it is best to stay away from Xfire, make sure my kid is a starter for hopes of play time, and cry over all my money spent and wasted away?

Okay, being a smart A** -- but thanks for the info. I did get more info via PM's though that gives me a better view on things.

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:29:34 AM »

>>>The academy is suppose to enhance college opportunities for its players. <<<

Wow. Has the academy program morphed already? I recall reading just before it started that the rationale for the academy program was to produce a well prepared generation of PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS. I do not recall ever seeing college oppotunities mentioned in their press releases.
I could have missed them, I was not (and still do not) take the academy program very seriously.

Has the academy program pulled a PDL? Totally changed its stated outlook and purpose after a year, while keeping its true purposes close to it heart and hidden from public view?

juggles · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:10:22 PM »

Quote

I could not find the new rules on USSDA site, where are they published? know if the

Go to USSF website and click on Developmental Academy logo. Then select Administrators on upper right and on page that comes up select Academy regulations.

1usa1 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:23:43 PM »

Quote

As I have said before, IF you are NOT a preferred starter then there may be NO benefit to being in the Academy especially at XF! Just to say you wear the XF jersey but don't see any time is an utter waste of time, energy and money! What benefit there is eludes me...and please don't say that practice 4 times a week is better than 3 practices and a game re:development!

Makes perfect sense to me. There are stated penalties for teams that don't adhere to the playing time issues;fines or suspension from the league

I heard that BJ took a ton of kids for next years younger academy team....how will he manage playing time?

lugnut · « **Reply #27 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:39:15 PM »

Whatever happened to the Sounders FC Academy? Wasn't that an MLS requirement? At one point there was much discussion about whether the Puget Sound area (I hear you EW!) has enough soccer talent to truly support 3 programs in the USSF system. Maybe the Sounder FC's support of the ODP program factors in somehow?

juggles · « **Reply #28 on:** March 12, 2009, 01:52:01 PM »

Sounders academy program will happen but they obviously are totally focused on upcoming season.

vms · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:28:40 PM »

Quote from: juggles on March 12, 2009, 01:52:01 PM

Sounders academy program will happen but they obviously are totally focused on upcoming season.

Lucky for XF and WPFC!

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Author Topic: Question on Academy (Read 6447 times)