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[yote19]

kinda models after our national government.   I got this today from one of my friends concerned about his business....Interesting for sure.



Corrupt  Leadership in WA State
By Janis Kristiansen
3:40 pm
Thursday, April 24, 2009

Since NO ONE in the press is going to report this, I will.   I just got off the phone with my husband, State Rep. Dan Kristiansen.
In summary, this is what he said.

At the beginning of session this year, the Democrats in control in the House changed the rules and eliminated the 24 hour rule from when the budget is introduced to when it can be voted upon.  In the past, the budgets were rolled out for review, and no vote on any budget could happen until at LEAST 24 hours had passed, giving time for the minority party (read Republicans) to review the budget, and make an intelligent vote on it. Not this session.  A budget can be introduced and voted upon, all in the same hour, giving the minority party literally no time to read it.

This morning, April 24, three days before the end of session, the Democrats announced that NO amendments to the capitol budget could be introduced (most amendments are offered by the opposing party, usually) after 3 pm today.  Guess when the Democrats released the capitol budget today, for the Republicans to get a first review of it?  At 3:25pm, 25 minutes after cut-off for any amendments to be offered.  So, for the Republicans, NO amendments can be offered because the Democrats released the operating budget for the Republicans to see 25 minutes after the deadline for amendments to be accepted.  This is CORRUPT.

The story is not over.  The operating budget, separate from the capitol budget, was emailed to the Republicans this morning at 1:30 AM, early in the morning.  It is several hundred pages.  The Democrats then said NO amendments were going to be allowed to the capitol budget after 12 noon today.  So, in the middle of the night the Democrats release the capitol budget, and then announce no amendments are allowed after 12 noon, AND they are voting on this budget this afternoon.

This is the corrupt nature of the Democrats in control.  How are Republicans supposed to vote yes or no on these budgets, hundreds of pages long, that spend approximately $34 billion dollars each biennium, when they are given no time to review it, or offer even hurried amendments to it?   The Democrats realize they have almost a super majority; so in essence, it’s OK to ignore the Republicans during the budget process.

Please email this article to everyone you know in WA.  The 5000 people who came to the Tea Party in Olympia, myself included, and who participated in one of the 30 tea parties across our state, need to know this is the level of corruption in the Democrat leadership in the House of Representatives in WA. Rep. Dan said this Operating Budget offered sets our state up for an approximate $10 billion shortfall in the 2011 biennium.  This is outrageous!  Where is self-restraint? Where is responsibility?  Where is the good stewardship of tax payer dollars?

Somebody please tell me this is the correct way to spend that much money in a state where we are failing miserably to control our budget.  Why can't we get leadership that runs our state properly and with ethics?  By just throwing money around doesn't solve anything.

[yote19]

Cracks me up...you post on the government site and you start getting smited.   It really doesn't bother me guys, I just wanted more folks to know what is happening in Olympia.

[sissy]

Cracks me up...you post on the government site and you start getting smited.   It really doesn't bother me guys, I just wanted more folks to know what is happening in Olympia.

Just don't mention Oprah...you'll be in for multiple wickeds a day for eternity

[basketballdad]

While I don't agree with how the legislature does its business at the state and national level I am also aware it has been going on for decades under both parties. Disgusted yes, surprised no and neither party has the high moral ground when it comes to political machinations. This is not a democrat or republican issue. It is a politician issue.

[HandBall]

While I don't agree with how the legislature does its business at the state and national level I am also aware it has been going on for decades under both parties. Disgusted yes, surprised no and neither party has the high moral ground when it comes to political machinations. This is not a democrat or republican issue. It is a politician issue.

So once again we should just accept it?  It's always been this way, we can't do anything about it, so move onto the next subject?

Maybe it has always been this way in Washington, but has it been this way under both parties as you claim?  Let's look at some facts.  Facts are those pesky things that get in the way of generalizations and broad-brush attacks on the character of people and parties.

Over the past 30 years in Washington, Democrats have had control of both the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch of state government 13 of 30 years. That translates to total control of state government for nearly half the last 30 years.  They've held the Governor's office for the last consecutive 25 years, and either the Senate or house for 26 of the last 30 years.  Republicans have controlled both branches for 1 two-year period from 1981-82.  That's it.  And the Legislative Branch one other two-year period from 1997-98, but under a Democrat governor.

So now that we know that Republicans have barely been involved in this state government for most of the last 30 years, and hardly able to impose the kind of oppressive rules on the Democrats, I would next challenge basketballdad for a single example that supports his claim against Republicans during the last three decades, of doing anything like the Dems in preventing access to legislation and amendments?

I would also point out that Democrats in Washington are not unlike Democrats in DC, who for decades held similar rules suppressing Republicans.  It was Republicans in 1995 who removed those rules to allow Democrats to participate in governance denied to Republicans for decades.  And it took no time at all for Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to reinstate their rules of suppression after last November, cutting Republicans completely out of the legislative process in Congress.

So with these facts, I submit my rebuttal to basketballdad incorrect assertions of equality of corruption.

[basketballdad]

Handball, thanks for the obvious. Since the democrats have been in power longer and more often it only stands to reason that they would  have done it more often. If you want to go way back Ulysses Grant had one of the most corrupt administrations in history. Should we talk about Nixon, should we talk about Bush, should we talk about the Contract with America group. How is Tom Delay doing lately. The difference between me and you is that only the opposition has warts and sins where I readily admit anyone can be corrupt. Individuals in both parties have been. What are you doing to change it besides posting on here.

[yote19]

BB Dad --lets talk about our state.  We are losing companies to other states, we have a $10 billion deficit and we keep spending tax payers money that we don't have.  Notice the title, Washington State Government

[basketballdad]

I would agree with some of your negative assessment but for very different reasons. While you complain about business and the economy I think they got the great deal. The no new taxes idea sent this state down a path that is wrong I agree. First, reducing payments into the pension system continues to create an underfunded mandate that grows increasingly worse and will have to be paid sometime. Second, balancing the budget on education both K-12 and college will come back to haunt this state. I agree teachers did not need a raise but to increase class size by eliminating most of the I-728 was ridiculous. Then throw in a huge reduction in college slots with a huge increase in tuition and you can see that higher education just went out of reach for many. Third, the idea that you throw thousands off the state health plan and suddenly they are not going to be sick is laughable. The savings from that will be offset by the increase in costs when these people go to the emergency room and can't pay. Don't think those costs are not going to get passed on. Fourth, the legislative practices Handball describes have been used by both parties in this state. I was actually working in the legislature a couple of decades ago when the Republicans controlled the Senate. I watched them call a recess late one night, wait for a few democrats to leave then quickly come back and call for a vote on a bill that was not even on the agenda in order to get it passed before the democrats could return. I saw the Repbulican committee chair kill a bill that almost her entire committee supported and the overwhelming majority of the Senate, including her own party supported because she was annoyed at a lobbyist. My biggest surprise was the good gun toting christian senator from Auburn area I think who in the midst of a heated debate on assisted suicide got surprised by one of her party colleagues who changed his mind. I was watching this debate and started laughing when she went over and had a heated quiet conversation with him then went back to her desk. As he turned to look at her she provided him with the universal gesture for "your number one". I have spent decades listening to people wail about the system but do nothing to change it. The parties don't want it changed and the same people keep electing the same people in both parties so this is a pretty ho hum issue for me.

[TheWarpedDog]

BB Dad --lets talk about our state.  We are losing companies to other states, we have a $10 billion deficit and we keep spending tax payers money that we don't have.  Notice the title, Washington State Government

Have to agree on this point, I know many small/medium sized business owners on both sides of the Cascades, many of which have and are considering moving their companies elsewhere.  The most common comment is 'Why would anyone WANT to move their business here?"

[basketballdad]

If you are talking about business then I do think the only gripe I would agree with is the B&O tax. THe idea you tax a business regardless of profitability is stupid. It should not be on gross receipts. As far as the rest I dont' think it is any worse than Oregon, California, etc. If you are talking about southern states and moving there then I would agree with you but for many others this state is no worse than many. See most of New England states, and the ones mentioned previously.

[goldengoal]

BB Dad you are such a Centrist  Oh wait I have had too many of these 

[basketballdad]

Goldengoal thanks for the comments. Not really a centrist but closer than most. Mostly just a highlighter of hypocrisy wherever and whenever I see it. 

[yote19]

HAHA -- this is another great example of our national government at work.  Mechanic calls from the Postal Service to get a part replaced.  The part is $56.00 and he sends me to his supervisor to get approval for the part.  Supervisor approves the part and asks if I will take a verbal purchase order (I felt like saying the government is not in great standing right now) and ship the parts via overnight air.  I say I need to know the complete costs before I invoice but that I need a credit card number to process the order.  The Supervisor says we have to go to another person to get this ordered.  It takes 25 friggin minutes for them to order a $56 part.  There are about two people I could cut out of this process right now....probably more.

[RamaBama]

Cracks me up...you post on the government site and you start getting smited.   It really doesn't bother me guys, I just wanted more folks to know what is happening in Olympia.

Yote  - - -

This is a shame.  Posts (and underlying opinions) on the politics site should be smite-free.
Smites should be reserved for soccer sections and this section should be a "smite-free zone."

RB

[yote19]

That is ok --obviously my opinion doesn't jive too much with what is going on in Olympia.

[basketballdad]

Yote, it is not me smiting you but get used to it. After every political post I see a big jump. Must be part of the routine.

[RamaBama]

If you are talking about business then I do think the only gripe I would agree with is the B&O tax. THe idea you tax a business regardless of profitability is stupid. It should not be on gross receipts. As far as the rest I dont' think it is any worse than Oregon, California, etc. If you are talking about southern states and moving there then I would agree with you but for many others this state is no worse than many. See most of New England states, and the ones mentioned previously.

There are various issues:
*** The B&O Tax is silly and damaging.  Companies who are starting out and trying to reach profitability see this as a boat anchor.  Every month, they need to cut a check to Olympia and that check pushes back profitability, and that check sucks away cash (lifeblood).  When it comes to corporations, an income tax would be preferable.
*** L&I is expensive, and the tax imposed by City of Seattle on employment is dumb  .  . .  both of these are disincentives to hire more people.
*** Given location, Puget Sound is far away from much of the country and product shipments are hindered by higher freight costs.  That has nothing to do with which party runs Olympia

*** On the plus side,  there has historically been a highly educated and creative workforce in WA state.   That's very important
*** Also on the plus, individuals pay no state income tax (which is nice).

Compared to other states along the West Coast (CA & OR),   WA stacks up well.

[basketballdad]

Rama, thoughtful post most of which I agree. Completely agree on the B&O tax and the L & I issue. I think you discount the location of Puget Sound. Not sure exact figures but am pretty sure it is one of the top 3 ports for trade to the far east. I know we are very trade dependent. No state income tax is nice and one of the higher educated work forces do favor us. However, transportation issues still clogging the system.

[yote19]

Rama, thoughtful post most of which I agree. Completely agree on the B&O tax and the L & I issue. I think you discount the location of Puget Sound. Not sure exact figures but am pretty sure it is one of the top 3 ports for trade to the far east. I know we are very trade dependent. No state income tax is nice and one of the higher educated work forces do favor us. However, transportation issues still clogging the system.

Your last statement cracks me up....Hell yes it is clogging the system, because the politicians that got voted in because of all of the stuff they were going to fix in the transportation issues would rather study, hire consultants and plan vs. giving a direction and getting some things done quickly and efficiently. 

[RamaBama]

Rama, thoughtful post most of which I agree. Completely agree on the B&O tax and the L & I issue. I think you discount the location of Puget Sound. Not sure exact figures but am pretty sure it is one of the top 3 ports for trade to the far east. I know we are very trade dependent. No state income tax is nice and one of the higher educated work forces do favor us. However, transportation issues still clogging the system.

Your last statement cracks me up....Hell yes it is clogging the system, because the politicians that got voted in because of all of the stuff they were going to fix in the transportation issues would rather study, hire consultants and plan vs. giving a direction and getting some things done quickly and efficiently. 

Yote  - - -  some of these things ARE pretty involved and actually DO require some thought & study.   Of course, they're even more complicated due to years of inaction and too much study !!!   

At some point   - - -  and it looks like we're getting there  - - -  people (lawmakers, those in the govt agencies) will basically make the best decision they can, with the information they have at present.   Some people will like it, others will not, but we'll at least be doing something.   (I think we're seeing some of that in D.C.   . .  some like it, others hate it).  Local example  - - -   Alaska Way viaduct.    Looks like they've made a decision   . . . some are happy about it, others rail against it.  Frankly, I'm just glad to see a decision and hope to see some progress.   The alternative is simply to fritter away more time arguing about various options (or questioning whether  we need do anything at all?), until the earth shakes, it falls down and we're then forced to make a decision under stress.

[basketballdad]

Actually all the information out there is enough to implement various transportation issues. However, regional and local turf wars have complicated things. Look at the cost overruns for the Alaskan Way Viaduct, the 520 bridge, etc. There are billions of dollars and there are so many more stakeholders involved now from taxpayers, environmental concerns, tribal concerns and issues, options, etc. However, I do agree inaction has caused the price tag to go way up but it is more complicated than you make it out to be.

[yote19]

Isn't that why we elect our politicians to positions of power.  To make the decision or is there more to it than I meets the eye.  Inaction is non-leadership.

[RamaBama]

Isn't that why we elect our politicians to positions of power.  To make the decision or is there more to it than I meets the eye.  Inaction is non-leadership.

Agree with you Yote. 

I'll even expand it... 
inaction IS action. 
Indecision IS a decision.    It is a decision to take no action !

Unfortunately, it's the course that too many have taken in recent years.

[basketballdad]

For historical purposes our whole system of government is set up for inaction. Since this is what I teach I can attest to the fact that the founders wanted very little action. When you look at the process and all of the steps it is really amazing that any bill gets passes.  Less than 10% of the bills proposed ever get passed at the state level. Even then some say the state is doing too much not too little.

[RamaBama]

For historical purposes our whole system of government is set up for inaction. Since this is what I teach I can attest to the fact that the founders wanted very little action. When you look at the process and all of the steps it is really amazing that any bill gets passes.  Less than 10% of the bills proposed ever get passed at the state level. Even then some say the state is doing too much not too little.

Agree with your points

Still, there are times when things are more likely to get done   . . .   let the earth shake and bring down the viaduct and there would be prompt action to deal with it.  Or, wait for years and the gov't gets around to it (I think that viaduct bill signing is today)

[basketballdad]

Yes Bama you are right. Unfortunately, it takes an emergency or serious media driven incident to drive some legislation. Proactive is not our strong suit in American politics.