Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[basketballdad]

Having grown up Republican and now Democrat for the last 20 years I have looked at the landscape and been thinking about what the Republicans need to do to gain more seats and positions everywhere. There is truly a lack fo a national leader, no strong group of individuals, and I am still weaving through what the message is. I give credit to Reagan in the sense he had a message that he articulated very well. While I disagreed with "The Contract with America" I admired the simple yet powerful message. I look at the landscape and see nothing resembling either. The RNC chairman keeps stepping in a pile of dung, there is no dynamic or powerful governor or legislator yet stepping forward to spread the message. Besides hoping that the economy gets worse of for a catastrophe that can be blamed on the democrats what can be done or who is going to step forward. I am not being sarcastic as I do think a healthy two party system is better than only one.

[HandBall]

Having grown up Republican and now Democrat for the last 20 years I have looked at the landscape and been thinking about what the Republicans need to do to gain more seats and positions everywhere. There is truly a lack fo a national leader, no strong group of individuals, and I am still weaving through what the message is. I give credit to Reagan in the sense he had a message that he articulated very well. While I disagreed with "The Contract with America" I admired the simple yet powerful message. I look at the landscape and see nothing resembling either. The RNC chairman keeps stepping in a pile of dung, there is no dynamic or powerful governor or legislator yet stepping forward to spread the message. Besides hoping that the economy gets worse of for a catastrophe that can be blamed on the democrats what can be done or who is going to step forward. I am not being sarcastic as I do think a healthy two party system is better than only one.

Why is it that Democrats, Liberals, Progressives and Marxists think Conservatives or Republicans care what they think Republicans should do to regain strength?  Do they think that Republicans subscribe to the leftist expertise out there?  Does the left really believe that after years of the worst venom possible against Bush that anyone on the right thinks they have our interests at heart.  That is just funny.

Suggesting, though, that Republicans hope that the economy gets worse or that a catastrophe befalls the nation is a proven Democrat strategy.  We watched it happen for 8 years, with Democrats doing everything within their power, along with their media allies, to undermine our wars, our economy, and our morale.  No one on the right wants our economy to worsen, or an attack to occur under Obama.  All the criticism of Obama is targeted at averting exactly what you allege Republicans want.

Some of us have become quite aware of the left's attempts to blame the right for the left's sins.  Doesn't fly with me.  Sorry.

[basketballdad]

Handball it was an honest question unlike you I do not bear any ill will toward people of a different political persuasion. That is good since one of my best friends and my youngest brother are both staunch Republicans. Your angst toward anyone who doesn't agree with you is sad. You have become what you detest which is a blind partisan that cannot discuss anything with the other side without subscribing evil intentions and motivations Think about what you have said about democrats and just change the name and you are describing yourself. I may heartily disagree with Republicans but I don't think they are evil or don't want to make things better in their own way.

[poolboy]

gov BOBBY JINDAL-  young conservative that has a great american story and is a new face to the republican party.

[basketballdad]

Yes, good choice. He seems like a rising star and would give the Republicans a much needed perception of increasing the diversity of the party. Interested to see how the Republicans keep the national spotlight on him.

[Snappy]

Handball it was an honest question unlike you I do not bear any ill will toward people of a different political persuasion. That is good since one of my best friends and my youngest brother are both staunch Republicans. Your angst toward anyone who doesn't agree with you is sad. You have become what you detest which is a blind partisan that cannot discuss anything with the other side without subscribing evil intentions and motivations Think about what you have said about democrats and just change the name and you are describing yourself. I may heartily disagree with Republicans but I don't think they are evil or don't want to make things better in their own way.


My biggest surprise was the good gun toting christian senator from Auburn area I think who in the midst of a heated debate on assisted suicide got surprised by one of her party colleagues who changed his mind. I was watching this debate and started laughing when she went over and had a heated quiet conversation with him then went back to her desk. As he turned to look at her she provided him with the universal gesture for "your number one". I have spent decades listening to people wail about the system but do nothing to change it. The parties don't want it changed and the same people keep electing the same people in both parties so this is a pretty ho hum issue for me.

I don’t follow this forum often enough to know how unlike Handball is from you but I was curious about the tone you used in the last thread I opened.

“good gun toting christian senator”.  Now there is an interesting sentence heavy with adjectives I can only assume are sarcastic and judgmental since I don’t know you either.  The tone and angst of the comments do seem to contradict your claim and some may view them as sad.

First, I don’t find the sanctity of life a laughing matter nor does an inappropriate and emotional response diminish the core principles the Auburn Senator was attempting to argue. 

If I take a similar tact and argue your demeaning innuendo, we end up where many Democrats want the discussion to go; a focus on defending character and dealing with personal attacks, not a mature discussion of the facts.


Do you not agree with the Senator’s position in support of the Second Amendment of the constitution?  I personally expect our elected officials to respect the Constitution.  Also out of respect I also prefer to capitalize “Christian”.  A minor point but the context and tone infer you are disdainful of Christianity.

Or are you using the common Democrat tactic of claiming due to the hypocrisy of a claimed Christian making any mistake at all, every other position or comment they make or take must also be discredited.  This together with your defense that Republicans previous bad behavior somehow justifies the Democrats current worse behavior?

 
This is a tough one for Conservatives.  Conservatives don’t claim to be perfect and understand they will make mistakes.  Democrats are all too eager to jump all over any perceived Republican discretion and Conservatives tend to hold their own accountable as well.  The disadvantage comes when a Democrat has a moral failing.  Republicans may attempt to use it for political advantage but the Democrats will defend their own and justify and minimize the sin.

 
I apologize if I misread your “good gun toting christian” comment you felt was so funny as a Senator reacted inappropriately in the midst of a passionate debate about the prospect of permitting assisted suicide.   

[basketballdad]

Snappy, I was purposely showing handball what it sounds like from the other side. My moral outrage is directed at both Democrats and Republicans when it is warranted. I condemned William Jefferson the Demoratic congressman who was found with a slush fund in his office that can't be accounted for as much as any Republican. Senator Craig Stevens bathroon indiscretions warrant as much ridicule and criticism as Bill Clintons. Tom Delay, known as the strongarm of the Republican House in his day, gives nothing away to anything Pelosi has done. What really annoys me is neither Democrats or Republicans but those on both whose partisan moralizing and hypocrisy knows no bounds or shame. I think the Senator from Auburn is an embarrassment but I can also name a countepart in the Democratic party. Handball can't and therein lies the difference between the two of us. I get in as much trouble with the party I belong to as with any Republican.

[basketballdad]

P.S. snappy the idea that the Democrats behavior is worse is an opinion which is fine but can you agree that there are scalawags in both parties?

[Snappy]

P.S. snappy the idea that the Democrats behavior is worse is an opinion which is fine but can you agree that there are scalawags in both parties?

Tom Delay resigned his leadership role and because of pressure from the Republican Party did not run for re-election.  I don’t miss him in any way.  Senator Craig Stevens ended much the same way.  So yes, the Republican Party has their fair share of flawed characters but you help make my point; both parties hold Republicans accountable for their indiscretions’ while Democrats tend to support theirs. 

Bill Clinton is revered in Democrat circles to this day.    William Jefferson received some lip service when asked to resign some committee posts while Pelosi asked the FBI to return the discriminating documents, along with Hastert which disappointed me, but ran for re-election unlike your examples.   There are many more examples on both sides.  My generalization stands, Conservatives hold their own up to high standards; Democrats only hold those hypocritical far right whackos up to high standards.

I think Hardballs point was; deal with the issue in front of us, don’t blow it off because the Republicans took a similar tactic many many years ago.  If it is wrong it is wrong.  Previous bad behavior does not justify current bad behavior.

[basketballdad]

Snappy, I apologize for not reading the your initial post more clearly. The part about sanctity of life is neither amusing nor full of levity. However, under pressure one finds out the true character of people The Senator you speak highly of broke, snapped, call it what you will. Her partisanship and feelings, (which all the Senators had by the way) brought out her inability to function. Her finger at a colleague during a  heated time told me more about her character, or lack thereof, than her actual belief in any policy.As Repbulicans like to do I have no problem discussing character issues of individuals that we elect on either side of the aisle.

 I am still not sure how I feel about that particular issue but your emotionally charged statement, "sanctity of life" also make assumptions and judgements regarding those who do not agree with you. Handball continually uses emotionally charged words and chants of dire consequences for every little thing Obama does from the way he greets another leader to a policy pronouncement on an issue. Most of his sources, notice I said most, are similiar in crediblity as if I started using the Huffington Post for my information. I am using that as an example since I don't think they are way out there but I would not use them as my first choice for citing sources. For every source claming socialism is right around the corner I can find just as many, as some did, that claim Bush condoned torture,  violated our constitution, and usurped the legislative and judicial branches of government.

I heartily disagree with your premise that conservatives hold their own to a higher standard. Delay was still a leader in the Republican party while be indicted and investigated. Craig did not go quietly into the night and Ted Stevens after being convicted still managed to hold on to run for his seat and almost won. How many convicted felons on the Democratic side have almost won races statewide. Yes, I will give you Marion Barry but he ran for city council. Don't try and tell me that Republicans hold themselves to a higher standard because that just is not so.

[HandBall]

Here is a very well-reasoned reality check for Americans scared to death at what is happening.  Not a total solution, but perhaps what must happen before the Obamanists figure out what they've done.  Hopefully there will be pieces to pick up when/if reality ever takes hold.

"The prancing and preening Obama crowd is a natural victim for all the con artists in the world -- and that's practically every real enemy of the United States and Western civilization. That's the way it is. Get used to it, because any therapeutic intervention first requires them to bump into reality. Just listen for the loud bangs as they go bouncing off the walls. "

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/psychotherapy_for_liberals.html

Again, looking here to a brighter future, and no excuses or apologies for the past.  The past is history!

[HandBall]

And again in the category of what Republicans need to do, or more importantly, what Americans need to do, here is an example of the kind of government threats, intimidation, and involvement in private business that must be stopped before government controls all of America's free-market.

This comes from the American Thinker.  Caution: Reading it may require actual thinking. 

"Although both GM and Chrysler are likely to be forced into bankruptcy court by some objecting creditors, the reorganization details are not likely to change significantly.  When the deals are consummated, Obama will have established control directly (US Treasury at GM) and by proxy (UAW at Chrysler) of two of the largest companies in the US.  He will have erased the previously unmanageable corporate debt and amassed a huge cache of personal political capital. Obama will have funded the juggernaut with taxpayer money and his ability to strong arm creditors.  This would be the pinnacle of almost any Wall Street Titan's -- or community organizer's -- career. Obama is just getting started. "

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/obamas_pinstripe_revolution.html

[GotRhythm]

And again in the category of what Republicans need to do, or more importantly, what Americans need to do, here is an example of the kind of government threats, intimidation, and involvement in private business that must be stopped before government controls all of America's free-market.

This comes from the American Thinker.  Caution: Reading it may require actual thinking. 

"Although both GM and Chrysler are likely to be forced into bankruptcy court by some objecting creditors, the reorganization details are not likely to change significantly.  When the deals are consummated, Obama will have established control directly (US Treasury at GM) and by proxy (UAW at Chrysler) of two of the largest companies in the US.  He will have erased the previously unmanageable corporate debt and amassed a huge cache of personal political capital. Obama will have funded the juggernaut with taxpayer money and his ability to strong arm creditors.  This would be the pinnacle of almost any Wall Street Titan's -- or community organizer's -- career. Obama is just getting started. "

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/obamas_pinstripe_revolution.html

I'm wondering if any of our "enlightened" liberals (or more importantly "enlightened" moderates (BBdad)) even know who is depicted in the above cartoon pulling the Obama strings?

[poolboy]

dude, i think it's billy buck. just tryin to have a little fun boys. how bout w.a.

[poolboy]

thought i'd bring billy buck to the front of the line for another look see. gona be good reading on the domestic front politically as well as the international front- iran/israel, afganistan (sp??), oil prices, the dollar.

[basketballdad]

With all that and Obama in the 40's for approval rating, Senator Reid trailing his opponent by double digits, and Pelosi not exactly endearing herself to a lot of people and still the Republicans can't capitalize. Why not. Who are the leaders? Where is their message. Yes I know the health care debate has been defined by opponents but as far as the party goes still a wasteland. Be interesting to see who steps up.

[Trackside14]

The real question is "What do Americans need to do?" to affect change. Republican and Democrat, Conservative and Liberal, are just monikers that the politicians use to pit one group against another.  The hope is that the groups are so busy fighting with each other that they won't notice what those in public office are doing.  Both parties in Congress are corrupt.  They care more about themselves and their political careers than they do the future of America. Every administration regardless if they are Republican or Democrat keeps spending more and more of our money, growing the government, and moving us closer toward socialism.  I am now an Independent.  Do you ever wonder why you feel like you have no real choice when it comes to your candidates for office?  I have heard so many people in the last 15 years say that "they are all the same so it really doesn't make any difference who I vote for."  The reason people feel that way is because for the most part they are all the same.  You can vote for Candidate A who is a Republican progressive or for Candidate B who is a Democrat slightly more liberal progressive.  Study the Progressive movement towards the early part of the 20th century.  Both Teddy Roosevelt(a republican) and Woodrow Wilson (a democrat) were progressives.  Hillary Clinton has called herself a modern progressive.  A good book to read is called American Progressivism by Ronald Pestritto.  What I resent is the backhanded way our government is trying to change what is great about our country.  They want to change our country from a  Representative Republic to something else.  Why do I say something else?  Because we are not anything else yet.  We have just been pushed in a more socialist direction.  What I don't like is the lying and incrementalism.  I say instead of our officials pretending to be pro America and pro business and capitalism etc., why don't they just be honest and say," Yes , we think socialism, marxism, whatever, is the way to go and let's have a discussion about the pros and cons of that?"  Instead they would rather pit us against each other while they move our country further away from what our founding fathers intended.  I find it ironic that only a little more than 200 years ago our country fought to free itself from England.  They fought to free themselves from a King and oppressive government that controlled everything.  The people wanted to be self-governing with only the minimum amount of government necessary to provide for things like national defense.  And now here we are going in the opposite direction. As the years pass there is bigger government with more and more control over our lives.  We need to wake up, quit bickering with each other and put our focus where it belongs...on what our politicians and those in power are doing.  Question everything, look up the answers yourself.  Don't rely only on a TV program or the newspaper.  I am from a family of conservative democrats where I was taught to look at the person and not the party.  Be open minded and be skeptical.  Think for yourself!  Instead of just listening to what our politicians are telling you, watch what they do.  Action speaks louder than words.  Become a problem solver.  When you start thinking of ways to solve problems like health care or the economy you will then start to really wonder why the politicians can't or won't come up with better solutions.  Please get out of your comfort zone, quit thinking you need to tow the republican or democrat line and realize we have been screwed over by both parties.  It is time to start thinking about throwing everyone out of congress and starting over and demand that our Politicians have the American people's best interests at heart.  Now that would be real change.

[basketballdad]

Trackside,

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but it has been tried before. Ross Perot and Anderson in 80 both were third party candidates that got a substantial amount of votes. Millions were not happy with the Republican and Democratic options in those elections. Yet, what did they really accomplish, not much. I don't doubt your sincerity but when it comes to many others it is all talk. When push comes to shove they hold their nose and vote for the least bad of the group. Or more often than not they just don't vote. I follow your example by checking on things myself. Example, the so called death panels I kept hearing about. Had to read faster than usual but found out for myself they don't exist in any proposed federal legislation. Even when I pointed that out to colleague he refused to believe me although I gave him the page number in the bill. In many of your comments I would hope you are right but sadly think you are not from a practical viewpoint. Thanks for the post.

[Trackside14]

Basketballdad-I think you misunderstood what I said.  I am not advocating a third party.  I am advocating exactly what I said which is to look for candidates whether they be republican, democrat or independent or what ever that want to put the people's interests first and vote for them.  Obviously and unfortunately, we probably won't be able b to replace the entire congress because so many people do what you said which is to go like sheep to the polls and vote for the lesser of two evils.  Be bold!  Would you tell your DK not to try out for a better team if he/she wanted to because you thought there was not a very good chance you DK would make it?  To sit there and say it can't be done is too accept defeat.  What if we were able to replace 25% of the congress.  That would make a significant impact.  Believe me I am the most practical and logical person you will meet.  But you can affect change by talking to people, being a student of history, and getting involved on some level in the political process.  One of the problems is so many people have checked out of the political process because it has become complex and boring.  They have other things going on in their lives like work and soccer.  Don't get so consumed about trying to debunk everything to see on the right ( like the end of life counseling) that you don't see what the other side is doing.  That is the political game they are all playing.  Don't fall into the trap.  I wish I was not right about this but I have seen enough and am old enough and smart enough to know I am right.  I used to be like you, and except for a few mistakes here and there, I felt my party was generally right and the other wrong.  I can see in your posts you are making an effort to be even handed but still defending one side and trying to punch holes in the other sides argument.  I used to do that too until a guy by the name of George Bush came along and I began to realize that I was a sucker.  Our money was being spent at an even faster rate than in the Clinton Administration.  I don't think everything that Bush did was bad but we were still being pushed toward socialism.  And now with the current administration instead of being on a slow march toward socialism they are trying to put us on a speeding train toward socialism.  Just look up the czars that are being created.  Go read some of the books these people have written and then you come back and tell me what you think. Cass Sunstein the regulatory czar, Mark Lloyd, the diversity czar, or John Holdren the science czar all have written books and papers on their beliefs.  Go read Ecoscience which is co-authored by John Holden and then tell me what you think.  Look at Rahm Emmanuel who is the president's chief advisor and tell me that there is not greed and corruption in this administration and well as others.   Read: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story  Read this article to give you a little "Bipartisan Perspective."  http://www.slate.com/id/2200160/
I am just trying to get you to to be open minded and truly objective.  Just because you don't believe in something does not mean it isn't true.  Unless you are a believer in Socialism and/or marxism these things have to give you cause for concern.

[Left Foot]

Basketballdad-I think you misunderstood what I said.  I am not advocating a third party.  I am advocating exactly what I said which is to look for candidates whether they be republican, democrat or independent or what ever that want to put the people's interests first and vote for them.  Obviously and unfortunately, we probably won't be able b to replace the entire congress because so many people do what you said which is to go like sheep to the polls and vote for the lesser of two evils.  Be bold!  Would you tell your DK not to try out for a better team if he/she wanted to because you thought there was not a very good chance you DK would make it?  To sit there and say it can't be done is too accept defeat.  What if we were able to replace 25% of the congress.  That would make a significant impact.  Believe me I am the most practical and logical person you will meet.  But you can affect change by talking to people, being a student of history, and getting involved on some level in the political process.  One of the problems is so many people have checked out of the political process because it has become complex and boring.  They have other things going on in their lives like work and soccer.  Don't get so consumed about trying to debunk everything to see on the right ( like the end of life counseling) that you don't see what the other side is doing.  That is the political game they are all playing.  Don't fall into the trap.  I wish I was not right about this but I have seen enough and am old enough and smart enough to know I am right.  I used to be like you, and except for a few mistakes here and there, I felt my party was generally right and the other wrong.  I can see in your posts you are making an effort to be even handed but still defending one side and trying to punch holes in the other sides argument.  I used to do that too until a guy by the name of George Bush came along and I began to realize that I was a sucker.  Our money was being spent at an even faster rate than in the Clinton Administration.  I don't think everything that Bush did was bad but we were still being pushed toward socialism.  And now with the current administration instead of being on a slow march toward socialism they are trying to put us on a speeding train toward socialism.  Just look up the czars that are being created.  Go read some of the books these people have written and then you come back and tell me what you think. Cass Sunstein the regulatory czar, Mark Lloyd, the diversity czar, or John Holdren the science czar all have written books and papers on their beliefs.  Go read Ecoscience which is co-authored by John Holden and then tell me what you think.  Look at Rahm Emmanuel who is the president's chief advisor and tell me that there is not greed and corruption in this administration and well as others.   Read: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story  Read this article to give you a little "Bipartisan Perspective."  http://www.slate.com/id/2200160/
I am just trying to get you to to be open minded and truly objective.  Just because you don't believe in something does not mean it isn't true.  Unless you are a believer in Socialism and/or marxism these things have to give you cause for concern.

Question: Was the federal government's involvement in setting up NASA in order to land on the moon and maintain a space program "socialist"?

[EWSoccer64]

>>>Question: Was the federal government's involvement in setting up NASA in order to land on the moon and maintain a space program "socialist"? <<<

No, and neither was the Manhatten Project.


So what is your point?

[EWSoccer64]

With all that and Obama in the 40's for approval rating, Senator Reid trailing his opponent by double digits, and Pelosi not exactly endearing herself to a lot of people and still the Republicans can't capitalize. Why not. Who are the leaders? Where is their message. Yes I know the health care debate has been defined by opponents but as far as the party goes still a wasteland. Be interesting to see who steps up.

It is true, the Republicans lack a leader like Gingrich was in the 92-96 timeframe.   Too bad he could not keep his zipper zipped.   Clinton must still be chortling about how he survived all the sex scandals and Gingrich was done in by one.  Even Republicans have to be able to laugh at that situation.

[Left Foot]

>>>Question: Was the federal government's involvement in setting up NASA in order to land on the moon and maintain a space program "socialist"? <<<

No, and neither was the Manhatten Project.


So what is your point?

Just trying to get a feel for what you folks define as socialism. 

I believe that word is thrown around quite a bit. 

[basketballdad]

Yes Left Foot it is thrown around a lot more than is warranted that is for sure.

[EWSoccer64]

State control and direction of civillian economic enterprises is socialism.  There you go Left Foot.

The Post Office is socialist.  UPS and Fedex are not.
The Public Schools are socialist.  The Private schools (mostly) are not.
Government Motors and Chrysler were SOCIALISED.  (Some of the big losers there were the union pension funds not part of the UAW).
Ford was not socialised.   (which is why I bought Ford shares at 3.25, should have done it sooner at half the price).
The Highway network is "socialist" and the railroads have been semi-socialized.


I support having a public school system paid for by taxes.   Sometimes a little bit of contrarianness is neccessary.  The post office used to be vital neccessity, and I think it still is.    But it also shows just how socialism works when trying to run a business. 
Amtrak should be left to die, so that rational replacements can form up.