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[Left Foot]

I have seen the phrase "Pay to Play" pop up in several threads. What do folks understand the phrase to mean? I mean, even rec costs some money. Does it refer only to clubs with paid coaches? Is it really just a synonym for "Big Club"?

Some of these types of phrases seem to pass into the forum lexicon and can be confusing to folks who aren't familiar with them. Just curious. 

[hulabaloo]

I always regarded the Pay to Play reference as coming from High School sports activities.  Where I grew up in Texas I did not have to pay a cent to play any sport.  Nothing except for say my shoes, baseball glove, practice basketball, etc.  The shools that charged some type of fee were considered Pay to Play.  Actually I had not even heard of paying to play until I moved up here.  It might have changed in Texas since I was young and I just never knew it, but in my small hometown I think it is still mostly true.  As for who pays, the Football program normally supported all the sports.

[kameharem]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

[breakaway]

"PAY TO PLAY"

PLAYER SUSPENSION WARNING NOTICE
Effective Date of Potential Suspension:  Anytime you don't pay
Player Name: Your Little Susie
Team:  Susie's team
Reason for Warning:  Non-payment of Club Fees as agreed in the Club Financial Policy

If suspension is placed, player will not be allowed to participate in any team practices or games (including tournaments).
To Avoid Suspension:  Pay all funds immediately to:  Susie's Club

[Left Foot]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

Yikes! Anyone ever seen one of these clubs in the wild?

[onthebench]

 

[Left Foot]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

Yikes! Anyone ever seen one of these clubs in the wild?

Before I answer your question (if I can) what do you mean by "seen one of these clubs in the wild"?

You know, does a club that operates like this actually exist in your personal experience?

[Brat Jr]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

they even give scholarships to those kids that aren't 'all that' in the big Clubs and even in the smaller ones

[touchline trouble]

blah, blah, blah.....................

[Left Foot]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

Yikes! Anyone ever seen one of these clubs in the wild?

Before I answer your question (if I can) what do you mean by "seen one of these clubs in the wild"?

You know, does a club that operates like this actually exist in your personal experience?

Yes, Absolutely it happens. Let's say this club has a little Sally or Johnny  soccer stud on an State Championship "A" team. Said players apply for financial aid scholarship without sending in proof they qualify. The club doesn't ask for the proof and the coaches look the other way and these little DK's play all year without paying a cent. I've also seen a coach pay the way for a player that didn't qualify for financial aid because and I quote" I can't afford to loose DK, he puts the ball in the net and that will get us the State Championship".

I'm thinkin' that this is the "Don't pay to play" part of the equation.

Have you actually seen parents pay the travel costs for kids that don't otherwise qualify for a scholarship?

What about this part?  -- "a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent."

[touchline trouble]

blah, blah, blah....................

[kameharem]

Just to clarify my post; I was only making a statement about what I thought it meant and not inferring that it was true about any specific club or that that is what anyone else thought it means.  I have been told by others that some clubs operate this way but I have not been personaly involved in any of these clubs as my player is new to the premier soccer world. 

[ritz bitz]

I always regarded the Pay to Play reference as coming from High School sports activities.  Where I grew up in Texas I did not have to pay a cent to play any sport.  Nothing except for say my shoes, baseball glove, practice basketball, etc.  The shools that charged some type of fee were considered Pay to Play.  Actually I had not even heard of paying to play until I moved up here.  It might have changed in Texas since I was young and I just never knew it, but in my small hometown I think it is still mostly true.  As for who pays, the Football program normally supported all the sports.

I thought is was related to HS sports too. With the tight school funding in this state our district tried to avoid this and finally implemented a pay to play program for HS and MS sports with ASB/PTA offering scholarships based on acceptance to the reduced lunch program. 

I have heard some schools going up to as much as $200 next year.  Ours uses a graduated system based on the number of sports each family particpates in.

[Left Foot]

I always thought it refered to a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent.  I also believe that these clubs use the high cost to reward scholarships to those talented and skilled players that they seek out in order to make the team/club successful.

Yikes! Anyone ever seen one of these clubs in the wild?

Before I answer your question (if I can) what do you mean by "seen one of these clubs in the wild"?

You know, does a club that operates like this actually exist in your personal experience?

Yes, Absolutely it happens. Let's say this club has a little Sally or Johnny  soccer stud on an State Championship "A" team. Said players apply for financial aid scholarship without sending in proof they qualify. The club doesn't ask for the proof and the coaches look the other way and these little DK's play all year without paying a cent. I've also seen a coach pay the way for a player that didn't qualify for financial aid because and I quote" I can't afford to loose DK, he puts the ball in the net and that will get us the State Championship".

I'm thinkin' that this is the "Don't pay to play" part of the equation.

Have you actually seen parents pay the travel costs for kids that don't otherwise qualify for a scholarship?

What about this part?  -- "a team/club that set it's "costs" to play at such an unreasonable high mark that only those with a large disposable income could afford to "pay to play" and those players would be on the team regardless of skill or talent."

Yes, I've seen the entire family going by plane or by driving in their new Cadilac Truck. But I've also seen the coach pay for a player to fly to tournament and then the parents show up one day later.
Parents that pay extremely high club fees/team fees so they can say their DK plays for _ _ o _ s _ i _ e on the "A" team, but the DK sit's the bench most of the time. But that's ok because they have the privledge of saying we play for _ _ o _ s _ i _ e,  you fill in the blanks. I'm only using them as an example  LOL----NOT

  That all seems kinda' harsh. The implication seems to be that if a kid playes for a  "Pay to Play" club, he or she is either a rich, spoiled, talentless bum or a cheater. I guess its easier to tell oneself that when little Susie's team is getting waxed yet again by one of those "Pay to Play" clubs. You know -- "Don't worry Susie, all the good players on that team are cheaters and the rest are just rich idiots!"

The depth of anger and envy shown toward some clubs never fails to amaze me.

[TheWarpedDog]

I always regarded the Pay to Play reference as coming from High School sports activities.  Where I grew up in Texas I did not have to pay a cent to play any sport.  Nothing except for say my shoes, baseball glove, practice basketball, etc.  The shools that charged some type of fee were considered Pay to Play.  Actually I had not even heard of paying to play until I moved up here.  It might have changed in Texas since I was young and I just never knew it, but in my small hometown I think it is still mostly true.  As for who pays, the Football program normally supported all the sports.

I thought is was related to HS sports too. With the tight school funding in this state our district tried to avoid this and finally implemented a pay to play program for HS and MS sports with ASB/PTA offering scholarships based on acceptance to the reduced lunch program. 

I have heard some schools going up to as much as $200 next year.  Ours uses a graduated system based on the number of sports each family particpates in.

Reference's in these forums are not directed at HS activities.

[touchline trouble]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4

[Left Foot]

Fair enough. 

It appears that calling a club Pay to Play would be derogatory and a bit overbroad. Even calling a team Pay to Play would most likely be denigrating to all the kids on that team.

[touchline trouble]

Fair enough. 

It appears that calling a club Pay to Play would be derogatory and a bit overbroad. Even calling a team Pay to Play would most likely be denigrating to all the kids on that team.

Fair enough

[IslanderCoach]

I think your all of track here.  The PTP is the replacement league for the PDL as it is brought in to replace the State Premier Leagues.  Now the way that the old PDL board will continue to ride the gravy train is through it's newest brainchild, PTP Leagues.  The way it works is clubs must pay an annual fee of $25K to heve thier teams be considered for play in the new league (which by the way is lauded to be the sure path to full ride college scholarships, walk on opportunities with the US National Teams and an automatic opportunity for a tryout on any Men's or Womens professional soccer team of your choosing.  Teams chosen will pay a monthly stipend of $2K for the opportunity to be included in the C league, $3.5K for the B league and $5K for the A league (this is on top of the $25K club fee as this only allows teams to be considered).  Teams must provide with thier application a $1,500 non-refundable filing fee, a $100-$500 "pad the pocket of the acceptance panel" fee and complete a parent portfolio of all parents of the applying team including Annual Income, list of properties owned, stock and bond holdings, employment, and any other information for consderation by the PTP Acceptance Panel.

[BellLap]

Fair enough. 

It appears that calling a club Pay to Play would be derogatory and a bit overbroad. Even calling a team Pay to Play would most likely be denigrating to all the kids on that team.

I've taken a more cynical use of the phrase "Pay to Play", where a parent has the expectation that since they paid $$$, their DK should be playing n minutes more than they are.  The higher the fees paid, the probability of this attitude increases.  Not a kind perspective of my fellow man (woman) but sometimes one tires of the whole circus.

[Brian McBride]

I do not consider Premier as a Pay for Play issue.  We are all paying to play at the premier level.  Playing time is not a factor of the payment.  I think of it more in the HS context of recruiting.  I guess you could imply this for some premier scholarship players if the system is abused.
 I have seen some instances where a player pays a coach for additional training.  If the person coaching and  training your kid is one and the same, or the coach has an influence for the DD/DS's team, there could be a Pay for Play issue.  That coach would have a vested interest in improving your DD/DS and then giving them more playing time.
 I saw this once where a coach took over a team that had several players he was currently training.  He subsequently stopped training the kids.  I think most coaches are ethical enough to avoid this conflict of interest.  Some CP's on the other hand may try to "buy" an edge.      BM

[2muchsoccer]

The "pay to play" was told to us when we fell behind in our payment plan with a large club (by one month). The payments were very steep and made every attempt to catch up, but ended up having financial issues and got caught up in a slump (no excuses).
Anyhow, club president gave me a call and used this verbage with me ... "pay to play".
Said if I didn't get caught up the club had the right, and would, to pull the player card leaving my kid to not playing in any games.
Coach was pissed about it, but can't fight a club. Let's just say PB & J/Mac & Cheese/Top Ramen became our new meals for a while, and other bills got bumped over.

[Left Foot]

The "pay to play" was told to us when we fell behind in our payment plan with a large club (by one month). The payments were very steep and made every attempt to catch up, but ended up having financial issues and got caught up in a slump (no excuses).
Anyhow, club president gave me a call and used this verbage with me ... "pay to play".
Said if I didn't get caught up the club had the right, and would, to pull the player card leaving my kid to not playing in any games.
Coach was pissed about it, but can't fight a club. Let's just say PB & J/Mac & Cheese/Top Ramen became our new meals for a while, and other bills got bumped over.

Interesting. Is it only the "Big" clubs that require payment of fees? I don't remember our fees at the local select level being optional, but it seemed like whenever a person needed more time, it was given. I have noticed a bit more emphasis on payment at our club lately though.