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[Left Foot]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

[kennard04]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

[Left Foot]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

No, no, no, no, no, no Kennard! How in the world did you get all of those k's when you obviously refuse to accept the established wisdom brought down from upon high -- American soccer is ruiness to all who engage in it. No kid ever has fun -- at least on a winning team. Every team everywhere has a win at all cost ethos. Only rich kids play ODP. All coaches at big clubs are mercenary aholes who hate kids. Coaches who take the time to acquire licenses are absolutely the ones to avoid. Success on the field is just evidence of poor coaching and crazy parenting and the PDL is a communist conspiracy to conquer the world.

LMAO dude!

[FullOfPickle]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

Pickup soccer is great for the already stated reasons but pickup soccer ISNT/DOESNT have to be opposed to organized teams. BOTH have benefits and problems right??

Clubs providing open club night are a great way to encourage the unstructured play. The downfall though is that it is only open club kids (Im sure its an insurance thing). The idea is good though.....

[kennard04]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

No, no, no, no, no, no Kennard! How in the world did you get all of those k's when you obviously refuse to accept the established wisdom brought down from upon high -- American soccer is ruiness to all who engage in it. No kid ever has fun -- at least on a winning team. Every team everywhere has a win at all cost ethos. Only rich kids play ODP. All coaches at big clubs are mercenary aholes who hate kids. Coaches who take the time to acquire licenses are absolutely the ones to avoid. Success on the field is just evidence of poor coaching and crazy parenting and the PDL is a communist conspiracy to conquer the world.

LMAO dude!

my kids have been on winning teams, losing teams and so-so teams. Played for great coaches, good coaches, mediocre coaches and psycho coaches (haha). Rec, select, premier, they've done it all. All of them have been pretty good soccer players. The oldest-29 works on computer equipment for the oil drilling industry in Texas and he has 3 kids, next in line works at US Bank, next in line is married to a pro (europe) basketball player and has 1 child, next is a full time college student, next is a high school senior and next is a soon to be sophomore. None of them will be the next C. Ronaldo or Hamm. They're good kids, they liked soccer, some more than others and some made it to a higher level than others. Some played a long time, some just a couple years. If you ask any of the kids about soccer they'll all smile and tell you about their friends, or when we went here, or there. Not one of them will talk about a losing season, or 'we ALMOST won state, or Crossfire, or whatever". All the trophies and medals and doohickeys they have ? Are they on the wall at home ? Nope, in a box. On the wall is pictures of friends, pets or some singer/moviestar or a new haircut they want. It's us parents who are SO concerned about what's wrong with soccer. The kids just play cause they like it.

[FullOfPickle]

UH OH!!! Ken's gone all "patriot" on us....you're gonna instigate a "best country in the world" thread! 

100% agree that producing responsible, well adjusted adults is the ultimate goal  but why shouldn't we care how Ronaldinho learned the game?? I think he was a fabulous player and we could learn a lot from what contributed to his development. If playing with a ball made of rags helps to learn creativity and improve your touch then hell play with it!

Street soccer culture isnt only for 'economically poor' countries. Italy, France, Mexico anyone? I think the difference is the "pay to play" field structure we have here in the States. Regular, open, free space attracts players! AND if we could stop the RAIN in the winter, that MIGHT HELP TOO!!! LOL

Am I crazy or is there sometimes an assumption that "underdeveloped countries" dont play organized ball??? Where does this idea come from??? The kids might not have Nike contracts, uniforms and manicured turf fields but there is definitely organization and older players---turned "coaches" who pass on their knowledge of the game. Teams with a higher level of play seek each other out and play. Its less "money" and "ego" dependent but there is definitely ORGANIZED soccer.

[Left Foot]

UH OH!!! Ken's gone all "patriot" on us....you're gonna instigate a "best country in the world" thread! 

100% agree that producing responsible, well adjusted adults is the ultimate goal  but why shouldn't we care how Ronaldinho learned the game?? I think he was a fabulous player and we could learn a lot from what contributed to his development. If playing with a ball made of rags helps to learn creativity and improve your touch then hell play with it!

Street soccer culture isnt only for 'economically poor' countries. Italy, France, Mexico anyone? I think the difference is the "pay to play" field structure we have here in the States. Regular, open, free space attracts players! AND if we could stop the RAIN in the winter, that MIGHT HELP TOO!!! LOL

Am I crazy or is there sometimes an assumption that "underdeveloped countries" dont play organized ball??? Where does this idea come from??? The kids might not have Nike contracts, uniforms and manicured turf fields but there is definitely organization and older players---turned "coaches" who pass on their knowledge of the game. Teams with a higher level of play seek each other out and play. Its less "money" and "ego" dependent but there is definitely ORGANIZED soccer.

OMG Say it ain't so FOP. Organized soccer in underdeveloped countries? I thought they executed anyone who even tried to coach or put a "team" together. My understanding was that they played in the streets then just drew straws to see who played in the World Cup. Way to ruin my vision of soccer eden for me!

Seriously though, where are peoples ideas on how to foster creativity in an organized setting?

[kameharem]

just let them play, let them pick teams, let then pick positions and a formation and let them play without a coach or parent yelling instructions or stopping the game to tell them what they did wrong.  then after the game is over, sit don't and ask then how they felt about the game what happened that they liked and didn't like.

[kennard04]

UH OH!!! Ken's gone all "patriot" on us....you're gonna instigate a "best country in the world" thread! 

100% agree that producing responsible, well adjusted adults is the ultimate goal  but why shouldn't we care how Ronaldinho learned the game?? I think he was a fabulous player and we could learn a lot from what contributed to his development. If playing with a ball made of rags helps to learn creativity and improve your touch then hell play with it!

Street soccer culture isnt only for 'economically poor' countries. Italy, France, Mexico anyone? I think the difference is the "pay to play" field structure we have here in the States. Regular, open, free space attracts players! AND if we could stop the RAIN in the winter, that MIGHT HELP TOO!!! LOL

Am I crazy or is there sometimes an assumption that "underdeveloped countries" dont play organized ball??? Where does this idea come from??? The kids might not have Nike contracts, uniforms and manicured turf fields but there is definitely organization and older players---turned "coaches" who pass on their knowledge of the game. Teams with a higher level of play seek each other out and play. Its less "money" and "ego" dependent but there is definitely ORGANIZED soccer.

OMG Say it ain't so FOP. Organized soccer in underdeveloped countries? I thought they executed anyone who even tried to coach or put a "team" together. My understanding was that they played in the streets then just drew straws to see who played in the World Cup. Way to ruin my vision of soccer eden for me!

Seriously though, where are peoples ideas on how to foster creativity in an organized setting?

first, clubs have to accept that unorganized play is OK. And that's hard in today's climate. If kids play in an unsanctioned or non-authorized event the club's insurance carrier will deny the claim and the club will either get stuck with a medical bill, or get sued for it. Second clubs have to be open to open the doors a little and let kids be kids without fear of being recruited or being slapped with a recruiting violation. But the biggest problem is us. Look at houses now, small front yards, big back yards, no place really for neighborhood kids to get outside and kick a ball. Our streets are designed to make neighbors houses not as visible. Curved streets, tree lined sidewalks. Not like the neighborhoods I grew up in. Big front yards to play in and wide, straight streets. So it's our desire for privacy that has taken away some of the spontaneity of outdoor sports. And it's fear. I would never dream of letting my kids do the things I did as a kid. In the summer I'd get up, have breakfast and tell my mom good-bye. She'd say; "be back for dinner". I'd be all over the neighborhood, riding bikes, playing basketball, hide and seek or football or even baseball. There was always a bunch of kids playing outside. But we don't do that anymore. We drive our kids to a friends, we take them to the mall, or an amusement park and watch them like a hawk. Not saying that's bad, I do it, I have to to protect my kids. But it has had a profound effect on our children. Good or bad time will tell.  Our culture as it's advanced has gone away from kids playing in the streets like they do in alot of countries. Maybe we'll come full circle at some point and get back to closer knit neighborhoods where all the kids play together. But as more and kids have dual income parents they're alot more limited to what they can do, it's life.  

[tripleplay]

UH OH!!! Ken's gone all "patriot" on us....you're gonna instigate a "best country in the world" thread! 

100% agree that producing responsible, well adjusted adults is the ultimate goal  but why shouldn't we care how Ronaldinho learned the game?? I think he was a fabulous player and we could learn a lot from what contributed to his development. If playing with a ball made of rags helps to learn creativity and improve your touch then hell play with it!

Street soccer culture isnt only for 'economically poor' countries. Italy, France, Mexico anyone? I think the difference is the "pay to play" field structure we have here in the States. Regular, open, free space attracts players! AND if we could stop the RAIN in the winter, that MIGHT HELP TOO!!! LOL

Am I crazy or is there sometimes an assumption that "underdeveloped countries" dont play organized ball??? Where does this idea come from??? The kids might not have Nike contracts, uniforms and manicured turf fields but there is definitely organization and older players---turned "coaches" who pass on their knowledge of the game. Teams with a higher level of play seek each other out and play. Its less "money" and "ego" dependent but there is definitely ORGANIZED soccer.

OMG Say it ain't so FOP. Organized soccer in underdeveloped countries? I thought they executed anyone who even tried to coach or put a "team" together. My understanding was that they played in the streets then just drew straws to see who played in the World Cup. Way to ruin my vision of soccer eden for me!

Seriously though, where are peoples ideas on how to foster creativity in an organized setting?

I don't think that the biggest impact of structure is the effect on "creativity". It's hours. For example, my local club offers organized soccer at U6 and U7 - the total number of hours per season? 6. When I was a kid in Europe, there was a goal near where I lived (not a full field with 2 goals, just 1 goal and some grassy space) but kids could, and did, play unorganized soccer for hours and hours. Now, we do have organized ways to supplement that 6 hour number here (Spring, indoor etc.) but there is no way to get anywhere close to the 100's of hours per year that a motivated kid can get (for free) when the game is part of the culture.

[tiekesccr]

Seven years age when my DS first started playing premier soccer all of the parents use to go and watch their kids practice and we took our DS’s siblings with us to run around and play. We were watching the kids play when one of the parents pointed out what the siblings were doing, the younger kids were off to the side of the field playing a pick-up game. The younger kids both male and female were laughing and bumping each other as they juke and spun away from each other with the ball then passing it off to another kid to try. We parents started to notice these kids playing every time they got together, but it was not only us the DOC’s of our club were watching and soon were trying to recruit these kids. Mine was seven at the time and was asked to join a u-11 team and we said no. But a couple of the other kid’s parents pushed their kids into it, those played u-11 for three years. Now as I watch them play with their teams I see they no longer play with that freedom that they once had, they no longer try to make up goofy moves or laugh when they play, girls play with girls and boys with boys. There no longer is the joy that we use to see. Now they have positions and are not encouraged to dribble or come up with goofy moves. Coaches tell them how to play and when to play, parents yell at them from the sidelines, both their parent and opposing ones, often being cussed at by both. Parent’s yell at each other and try to start fights. This is what you see when you step back a just look. Yes my DD still plays but no longer do I hear her laughter and joy as she weaves down the field, to her it has become winning or be a looser not enjoy and learn. The joy has been sucked out of the game, we do this in this country to try and make our kids the next super star. 

[goldengoal]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

scrimmage at the end of practice w/o coaching, play parents, play futsal, let players coach themselves

[goldengoal]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

No, no, no, no, no, no Kennard! How in the world did you get all of those k's when you obviously refuse to accept the established wisdom brought down from upon high -- American soccer is ruiness to all who engage in it. No kid ever has fun -- at least on a winning team. Every team everywhere has a win at all cost ethos. Only rich kids play ODP. All coaches at big clubs are mercenary aholes who hate kids. Coaches who take the time to acquire licenses are absolutely the ones to avoid. Success on the field is just evidence of poor coaching and crazy parenting and the PDL is a communist conspiracy to conquer the world.

LMAO dude!

and with the 2 comments above is why soccer is what it is in America. Not saying it is wrong, it is just what the majority want. Until the minority becomes the majority, this will always be a game about what is in it for my kid and not what is going to be better for the majority of kids in American soccer.
Maybe the fix would be for our US Youth system to do a "Game Theory" analysis, that should fix things

[kennard04]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

No, no, no, no, no, no Kennard! How in the world did you get all of those k's when you obviously refuse to accept the established wisdom brought down from upon high -- American soccer is ruiness to all who engage in it. No kid ever has fun -- at least on a winning team. Every team everywhere has a win at all cost ethos. Only rich kids play ODP. All coaches at big clubs are mercenary aholes who hate kids. Coaches who take the time to acquire licenses are absolutely the ones to avoid. Success on the field is just evidence of poor coaching and crazy parenting and the PDL is a communist conspiracy to conquer the world.

LMAO dude!

and with the 2 comments above is why soccer is what it is in America. Not saying it is wrong, it is just what the majority want. Until the minority becomes the majority, this will always be a game about what is in it for my kid and not what is going to be better for the majority of kids in American soccer.
Maybe the fix would be for our US Youth system to do a "Game Theory" analysis, that should fix things

the minority will become the majority when enough people decide it's needed. When the soccer community decides as a whole that change is needed, it will adapt. In reality it's adapting now, everyday. Maybe it isn't adapting as fast as some would like, maybe it's not adapting in a directiuon that all will like. But it is changing, and change is brought on by people who think they have a better idea or a better plan. I doubt most parents have a; 'what's in it for my kid' mentality. I think most parents look at it as I do, a fun sport that teaches kids some good lessons and hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active. With the tiered system in  place there is a level out there for every player from rec to premier. 

[goldengoal]

Ok, the established dogma seems to be that our players suck because they don't play enough unorganized soccer. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the statement may be irrelevent because, for a number of reasons,  there just isn't enough opportunity for kids to engage in unstructured soccer play in the wild and that probably isn't going to change quickly.

I'm assuming that the coaches and parents on here are part of the problem since you or or your kids participate in the completely distructive "organized" soccer community that turns out soccer zombies instead of Messis, Ronaldos or Martas. 

Now, assuming that a soccer street culture is not going to bloom over night, what do coaches out there do to help foster creativity and freedom on the field? Parents, what have you seen?

Example -- Our coach had barefoot practices from time to time - parents, coaches and kids take your shoes off and play for a couple of hours and in general played lots of fun games.

youth soccer in America is what it is. It's not perfect, it's far from being fatally flawed though. Some underdeveloped countries may produce better soccer players, and they may not. Either way, who cares ? Our kids get a much more well rounded life without living in poverty and having to play soccer on a dusty street with a ball made up of taped together old rags. I could care less where Ronaldinho learned the game. My kids are growing up in the greatest country on earth and I work my a$$ off to ensure they have the best of what my american lifestyle can provide. No, they'll never play on the US National team, OK, so ? That they grow up to be responsible, well adjusted adults in my goal. Not a spoiled, over indulgent professional athlete. My son in law is a professional basketball player, he didn't grow up playing with a ball made of cow dung with rags tied to his feet. My kids have all enjoyed and/or are enjoying playing soccer. Good by me.

No, no, no, no, no, no Kennard! How in the world did you get all of those k's when you obviously refuse to accept the established wisdom brought down from upon high -- American soccer is ruiness to all who engage in it. No kid ever has fun -- at least on a winning team. Every team everywhere has a win at all cost ethos. Only rich kids play ODP. All coaches at big clubs are mercenary aholes who hate kids. Coaches who take the time to acquire licenses are absolutely the ones to avoid. Success on the field is just evidence of poor coaching and crazy parenting and the PDL is a communist conspiracy to conquer the world.

LMAO dude!

and with the 2 comments above is why soccer is what it is in America. Not saying it is wrong, it is just what the majority want. Until the minority becomes the majority, this will always be a game about what is in it for my kid and not what is going to be better for the majority of kids in American soccer.
Maybe the fix would be for our US Youth system to do a "Game Theory" analysis, that should fix things

the minority will become the majority when enough people decide it's needed. When the soccer community decides as a whole that change is needed, it will adapt. In reality it's adapting now, everyday. Maybe it isn't adapting as fast as some would like, maybe it's not adapting in a directiuon that all will like. But it is changing, and change is brought on by people who think they have a better idea or a better plan. I doubt most parents have a; 'what's in it for my kid' mentality. I think most parents look at it as I do, a fun sport that teaches kids some good lessons and hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active. With the tiered system in  place there is a level out there for every player from rec to premier. 

Okay what do you mean by "hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active"- Isn't this better? Honestly, what lessons does soccer teach you if you have a win at all costs mentility?
I have to disagree with you that most parents don't have a "what is in it for my kid" mentality. If it directly affects your family, you always do what is best for it. You even stated in one of your threads. Not saying it is bad, just the truth. People should be okay with this.

Having said that, when someone with a lot of soccer knowledge comments that if we want to compete at the World stage or produce more quality soccer players then our Youth Soccer program needs to be revamped, we bash them and disagree with what they say as if we were experts.

Finally, if it were true that all the majority want is for their kids to be happy, have fun and be fit then it would be easy get players that are World Class. You would just leave it up to the experts to run our youth soccer programs and not worry if your kid wins or loses. I am not talking about any expert, people with experience and credentials and not just the English (sorry DOC) Problem is we don't because we are so darn worried about our kids being crowned the u11 state cup champ or playing on the highest ranked team at U6. Yes, you may bash, but I see it out there and read it daily on this board.

It is what it is, but things will eventually change- HOPE, CHANGE, YES WE CAN!!!

[kennard04]

Okay what do you mean by "hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active"- Isn't this better? Honestly, what lessons does soccer teach you if you have a win at all costs mentility?
I have to disagree with you that most parents don't have a "what is in it for my kid" mentality. If it directly affects your family, you always do what is best for it. You even stated in one of your threads. Not saying it is bad, just the truth. People should be okay with this.

we all do what we think is best for our kids. Hopefully means 'I hope my kids can learn, play and stay active'. Winning at all costs has never been my mentality. I would bet 95% of soccder parents feel the same.

Having said that, when someone with a lot of soccer knowledge comments that if we want to compete at the World stage or produce more quality soccer players then our Youth Soccer program needs to be revamped, we bash them and disagree with what they say as if we were experts.

sure don't remember bashing anyone. If I remember correctly this is a soccer forum, where we discuss soccer. Maybe you read it w/a view of looking for disagreement when there isn't any ?

Finally, if it were true that all the majority want is for their kids to be happy, have fun and be fit then it would be easy get players that are World Class. You would just leave it up to the experts to run our youth soccer programs and not worry if your kid wins or loses. I am not talking about any expert, people with experience and credentials and not just the English (sorry DOC) Problem is we don't because we are so darn worried about our kids being crowned the u11 state cup champ or playing on the highest ranked team at U6. Yes, you may bash, but I see it out there and read it daily on this board.

no, not really worried that my kid is on the highest ranked team. My kids choice last year was to play on a B team. She liked the coach, she liked the girls, and she's happy. That's enough for me.  

It is what it is, but things will eventually change- HOPE, CHANGE, YES WE CAN!!!

sure we can, it just takes someone to instigate it. At this point in my kids soccer playing ages, it's not going to be me though. I've done it all while the kids were growing up, I'll leave it to the rest of you all to make changes if that's what you want. Honestly soccer is where it's at because that's what most parents want. If we really get to the point where the US wants to make top players, the system will change. It's not all that important to me to make changes. I don't really care if the US wins the mens World Cup. I do care that my kids had fun playing soccer, and they did. My youngest has a couple years left in club ball if she wants. She's never going to make the US WNT, she doesn't want to. She plays cause it's fun. I like to watch her play, that's enough.

[goldengoal]

Okay what do you mean by "hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active"- Isn't this better? Honestly, what lessons does soccer teach you if you have a win at all costs mentility?
I have to disagree with you that most parents don't have a "what is in it for my kid" mentality. If it directly affects your family, you always do what is best for it. You even stated in one of your threads. Not saying it is bad, just the truth. People should be okay with this.

we all do what we think is best for our kids. Hopefully means 'I hope my kids can learn, play and stay active'. Winning at all costs has never been my mentality. I would bet 95% of soccder parents feel the same.

Having said that, when someone with a lot of soccer knowledge comments that if we want to compete at the World stage or produce more quality soccer players then our Youth Soccer program needs to be revamped, we bash them and disagree with what they say as if we were experts.

sure don't remember bashing anyone. If I remember correctly this is a soccer forum, where we discuss soccer. Maybe you read it w/a view of looking for disagreement when there isn't any ?

Finally, if it were true that all the majority want is for their kids to be happy, have fun and be fit then it would be easy get players that are World Class. You would just leave it up to the experts to run our youth soccer programs and not worry if your kid wins or loses. I am not talking about any expert, people with experience and credentials and not just the English (sorry DOC) Problem is we don't because we are so darn worried about our kids being crowned the u11 state cup champ or playing on the highest ranked team at U6. Yes, you may bash, but I see it out there and read it daily on this board.

no, not really worried that my kid is on the highest ranked team. My kids choice last year was to play on a B team. She liked the coach, she liked the girls, and she's happy. That's enough for me.  

It is what it is, but things will eventually change- HOPE, CHANGE, YES WE CAN!!!

sure we can, it just takes someone to instigate it. At this point in my kids soccer playing ages, it's not going to be me though. I've done it all while the kids were growing up, I'll leave it to the rest of you all to make changes if that's what you want. Honestly soccer is where it's at because that's what most parents want. If we really get to the point where the US wants to make top players, the system will change. It's not all that important to me to make changes. I don't really care if the US wins the mens World Cup. I do care that my kids had fun playing soccer, and they did. My youngest has a couple years left in club ball if she wants. She's never going to make the US WNT, she doesn't want to. She plays cause it's fun. I like to watch her play, that's enough.

Kennard, the only question directed at you was the part were you said that you hope your kids will have fun, the rest was in in general. I hope your kids have fun and not hope they have fun, othewise what is the point? Sorry about the confusion

[kennard04]

Okay what do you mean by "hopefully a place where the kids can have fun and stay active"- Isn't this better? Honestly, what lessons does soccer teach you if you have a win at all costs mentility?
I have to disagree with you that most parents don't have a "what is in it for my kid" mentality. If it directly affects your family, you always do what is best for it. You even stated in one of your threads. Not saying it is bad, just the truth. People should be okay with this.

we all do what we think is best for our kids. Hopefully means 'I hope my kids can learn, play and stay active'. Winning at all costs has never been my mentality. I would bet 95% of soccder parents feel the same.

Having said that, when someone with a lot of soccer knowledge comments that if we want to compete at the World stage or produce more quality soccer players then our Youth Soccer program needs to be revamped, we bash them and disagree with what they say as if we were experts.

sure don't remember bashing anyone. If I remember correctly this is a soccer forum, where we discuss soccer. Maybe you read it w/a view of looking for disagreement when there isn't any ?

Finally, if it were true that all the majority want is for their kids to be happy, have fun and be fit then it would be easy get players that are World Class. You would just leave it up to the experts to run our youth soccer programs and not worry if your kid wins or loses. I am not talking about any expert, people with experience and credentials and not just the English (sorry DOC) Problem is we don't because we are so darn worried about our kids being crowned the u11 state cup champ or playing on the highest ranked team at U6. Yes, you may bash, but I see it out there and read it daily on this board.

no, not really worried that my kid is on the highest ranked team. My kids choice last year was to play on a B team. She liked the coach, she liked the girls, and she's happy. That's enough for me.  

It is what it is, but things will eventually change- HOPE, CHANGE, YES WE CAN!!!

sure we can, it just takes someone to instigate it. At this point in my kids soccer playing ages, it's not going to be me though. I've done it all while the kids were growing up, I'll leave it to the rest of you all to make changes if that's what you want. Honestly soccer is where it's at because that's what most parents want. If we really get to the point where the US wants to make top players, the system will change. It's not all that important to me to make changes. I don't really care if the US wins the mens World Cup. I do care that my kids had fun playing soccer, and they did. My youngest has a couple years left in club ball if she wants. She's never going to make the US WNT, she doesn't want to. She plays cause it's fun. I like to watch her play, that's enough.

Kennard, the only question directed at you was the part were you said that you hope your kids will have fun, the rest was in in general. I hope your kids have fun and not hope they have fun, othewise what is the point? Sorry about the confusion

no problem, yes, my kid has fun playing.

As for the in general, just throwing some stuff out there, for discussion sake, no worries.   

[Islander]

The dreams of kids are real no matter if it's a street game or a organized team training session.  The dream of becoming the next superstar.  Some even have theme songs when the step on the field.  Mine was from NFL highlights "what do you do with a drunken sailor" (funny that's what I became instead of a professional football player).

Kids in this country have such amazing facilities to train at.  They have access to some amazing coaching, but your are right.  Something is a miss when countries with such smaller population basis can turn out superstars and the US doesn't.  So maybe it's not about the facilities or coaches but about the kids themselve.

Maybe, just maybe our kids don't have the burning desire to be the best in the world.  Maybe we've squelched that desire.  And maybe we've lost our competative edge in doing so.  Go back and look at those two videos.  Tell me those two kids were not living their dreams, re-enacting their idols.  Tell me they didn't want to dominate the game.  Tell me they didn't want to win.

No, some kids do want to be the next superstar.  We just keep trying to make them equal to everyone else.

[The Doc]

The dreams of kids are real no matter if it's a street game or a organized team training session.  The dream of becoming the next superstar.  Some even have theme songs when the step on the field.  Mine was from NFL highlights "what do you do with a drunken sailor" (funny that's what I became instead of a professional football player).

Kids in this country have such amazing facilities to train at.  They have access to some amazing coaching, but your are right.  Something is a miss when countries with such smaller population basis can turn out superstars and the US doesn't.  So maybe it's not about the facilities or coaches but about the kids themselve.

Maybe, just maybe our kids don't have the burning desire to be the best in the world.  Maybe we've squelched that desire.  And maybe we've lost our competative edge in doing so.  Go back and look at those two videos.  Tell me those two kids were not living their dreams, re-enacting their idols.  Tell me they didn't want to dominate the game.  Tell me they didn't want to win.

No, some kids do want to be the next superstar.  We just keep trying to make them equal to everyone else.

some great points! I think the facilities and coaching available to them are some of the best in the world period. As i intimate in an earlier thread, perhaps it has more to do with the 'class system' of soccer. The smaller countries we are speaking of tend to have a huge disproportionate representation from 'poor' areas, players who come from the streets to make it as a superstar. Here is the paradox of having the facilities, coaching etc... there is a premium to pay for it, hence perhaps the 'motivation to make it' just isn't the same as players from countries who see being a soccer player a ticket to fund their entire families. That's not to say our kids are not passionate about it, it's just not as 'important' as it is to some.

A great example in a sporting context was given to me by someone i became friends with... He was a professional Rugby Union player from New Zealand, he grew up in a devote christian family, he had many many brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc... who all lived in a 3 room 'shack'. He told me that when he was 8, him and all his family would be up at 5am sewing 'cushions' and 'pillows' to sell at the local market. This was the only income the family had to by food, supplies etc... they would often go days without a decent meal if they couldn't sell enough stuff. They had lots of faith in their religion and he prayed every night for the opportunity to take care of his family... eventually this came in the form of a Rugby contract, this guy is an animal and speedy too, and as history shows he became a top top New Zealand Rugby Union International and earned enough money to finance every single one of his relatives lives and get them out of the doldrums. He often spoke about the motivation and possible consequence of him not making it, the thought of failure was never an option due to the catastrophic consequences that his family would have to endure. He never forgot his routes and is still a devoted christian preaching his gospel despite all of his relative fame and fortune.

The stories like that i hear from the US are all to do with American Football or Baseball, so it does happen, however as suggested perhaps the 'class' of soccer isolates some of the people that would bring 'creativity' to the game? Do people here think that Baseball and 'Football' are games of the people? if that is true, what is soccer?

[tripleplay]

The dreams of kids are real no matter if it's a street game or a organized team training session.  The dream of becoming the next superstar.  Some even have theme songs when the step on the field.  Mine was from NFL highlights "what do you do with a drunken sailor" (funny that's what I became instead of a professional football player).

Kids in this country have such amazing facilities to train at.  They have access to some amazing coaching, but your are right.  Something is a miss when countries with such smaller population basis can turn out superstars and the US doesn't.  So maybe it's not about the facilities or coaches but about the kids themselve.

Maybe, just maybe our kids don't have the burning desire to be the best in the world.  Maybe we've squelched that desire.  And maybe we've lost our competative edge in doing so.  Go back and look at those two videos.  Tell me those two kids were not living their dreams, re-enacting their idols.  Tell me they didn't want to dominate the game.  Tell me they didn't want to win.

No, some kids do want to be the next superstar.  We just keep trying to make them equal to everyone else.

Let me offer a different perspective, one which goes back to important cultural differences which if ignored in this discussion lead to a lot of nonsense. Basic question. Does the US fail to generate enough soccer players to meet this country's professional demand for soccer players?  While the MLS does allow a few imports, by rule 70% of the league is filled with Americans, and there are a a number of US players who go overseas as well. So, on the whole, our system of soccer development is adequate to meeting the demand, or at least close. So using soccer as an example to find fault with American character is just not valid - what you are witnessing is just good old fashioned capitalism.

Now consider what the demand for soccer players is in a big soccer country. Italy has over 100 professional clubs and over 1000 amateur clubs. A single Italian club like AC Milan has far greater revenues than the entire MLS. Italy has a marketplace which demands excellent soccer players - it's an affluent country with an audience that follows the game and wants successful teams. So one can say that Italy produces lots of top players because that's what the Italian soccer marketplace wants.

The American marketplace asks soccer to be a mass, recreational activity for youth - and it is. In Italy, soccer is a mass recreational actifvity for youth and adults, as well as an entertainment business requiring high numbers of top soccer players.  It would be silly to expect our system to produce top soccer players by accident.

[goldengoal]

The dreams of kids are real no matter if it's a street game or a organized team training session.  The dream of becoming the next superstar.  Some even have theme songs when the step on the field.  Mine was from NFL highlights "what do you do with a drunken sailor" (funny that's what I became instead of a professional football player).

Kids in this country have such amazing facilities to train at.  They have access to some amazing coaching, but your are right.  Something is a miss when countries with such smaller population basis can turn out superstars and the US doesn't.  So maybe it's not about the facilities or coaches but about the kids themselve.

Maybe, just maybe our kids don't have the burning desire to be the best in the world.  Maybe we've squelched that desire.  And maybe we've lost our competative edge in doing so.  Go back and look at those two videos.  Tell me those two kids were not living their dreams, re-enacting their idols.  Tell me they didn't want to dominate the game.  Tell me they didn't want to win.

No, some kids do want to be the next superstar.  We just keep trying to make them equal to everyone else.

Let me offer a different perspective, one which goes back to important cultural differences which if ignored in this discussion lead to a lot of nonsense. Basic question. Does the US fail to generate enough soccer players to meet this country's professional demand for soccer players?  While the MLS does allow a few imports, by rule 70% of the league is filled with Americans, and there are a a number of US players who go overseas as well. So, on the whole, our system of soccer development is adequate to meeting the demand, or at least close. So using soccer as an example to find fault with American character is just not valid - what you are witnessing is just good old fashioned capitalism.

Now consider what the demand for soccer players is in a big soccer country. Italy has over 100 professional clubs and over 1000 amateur clubs. A single Italian club like AC Milan has far greater revenues than the entire MLS. Italy has a marketplace which demands excellent soccer players - it's an affluent country with an audience that follows the game and wants successful teams. So one can say that Italy produces lots of top players because that's what the Italian soccer marketplace wants.

The American marketplace asks soccer to be a mass, recreational activity for youth - and it is. In Italy, soccer is a mass recreational actifvity for youth and adults, as well as an entertainment business requiring high numbers of top soccer players.  It would be silly to expect our system to produce top soccer players by accident.

Good persepective, but I would disagree that the market is not there, especially when we fill stadiums when teams like AC Milan, Barca, Real, chelsea or any Euro or Latin American team come to town. When Club America came to town there were plenty of fans then as well. Its about quality teams with quality players and not just "run of the mill". Having said all that, our system still doesn't breed World Class players.