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Our Founding Fathers

10 (76.9%)

Obama & his Socialist Radicals

3 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[HandBall]

The Obama administration is 9 months old and the reality of the Hope and Change has now revealed itself. Yes, Obama was correct that he would seek a "fundamental transformation" of America if elected. Obama's plan for America is now becoming crystal clear as his advisers, Czars and appointed administration officials begin their remaking of America.

Americans have a choice; 230 years ago our Founding Fathers launched a revolution to build a nation founded on principles of Freedom and Liberty for all. They included:

• A limited Federal government that leaves governance to the individual states
• Property Rights to give the people the wealth of the nation and not a centralized government
• Gun Rights to protect against tyranny of that federal government
• Freedom of the Press as watchdog of that federal government
• Freedom of Speech to speak out against that federal government
• Minimal government borrowing by that federal government so it lives within its means
• A Constitution that limits the authority of the Federal Government, and NOT the rights of the American people.

After decades of laying the groundwork, the left has corrupted about a third of Americans into accepting and even begging for the polar opposites of these principles, with literally millions of Americans so ruined by pitiful public and higher education that they are literally incapable of understanding the principles. America may be at its very last crossroads RIGHT NOW, with a regime in power driven by leftist radicals that oppose every single principle of our Founding Fathers. They are working primarily in secret, along with their allies in the national media to make good on Obama's pledge to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America.

Consider the principles of our Founding Fathers. Then consider that Obama and the Marxists, Socialists, Communists, Maoists, and anti-Capitalists who surround him find these principles counter to their beliefs and they are determined to erase them.

It's time for every American to stand up and make the choice. It's one path or the other, and it's your children that will live with the consequences of your decision, or your inaction.

Fear-mongering? Call it what you want. I'm fighting for my children. What the heck are you doing?

[GotRhythm]

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

[Left Foot]

Hey, did you steal this survey from Fox Spews? 

[2 CENTS]

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

Handball,
I am assuming that everybody voting in your poll for the founding fathers is casting a vote for Freedom and Liberty for all white men? Is this your intent?

[swedish]

The Obama administration is 9 months old and the reality of the Hope and Change has now revealed itself. Yes, Obama was correct that he would seek a "fundamental transformation" of America if elected. Obama's plan for America is now becoming crystal clear as his advisers, Czars and appointed administration officials begin their remaking of America.

Americans have a choice; 230 years ago our Founding Fathers launched a revolution to build a nation founded on principles of Freedom and Liberty for all. They included:

• A limited Federal government that leaves governance to the individual states
• Property Rights to give the people the wealth of the nation and not a centralized government
• Gun Rights to protect against tyranny of that federal government
• Freedom of the Press as watchdog of that federal government
• Freedom of Speech to speak out against that federal government
• Minimal government borrowing by that federal government so it lives within its means
• A Constitution that limits the authority of the Federal Government, and NOT the rights of the American people.

After decades of laying the groundwork, the left has corrupted about a third of Americans into accepting and even begging for the polar opposites of these principles, with literally millions of Americans so ruined by pitiful public and higher education that they are literally incapable of understanding the principles. America may be at its very last crossroads RIGHT NOW, with a regime in power driven by leftist radicals that oppose every single principle of our Founding Fathers. They are working primarily in secret, along with their allies in the national media to make good on Obama's pledge to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America.

Consider the principles of our Founding Fathers. Then consider that Obama and the Marxists, Socialists, Communists, Maoists, and anti-Capitalists who surround him find these principles counter to their beliefs and they are determined to erase them.

It's time for every American to stand up and make the choice. It's one path or the other, and it's your children that will live with the consequences of your decision, or your inaction.

Fear-mongering? Call it what you want. I'm fighting for my children. What the heck are you doing?

??

[Left Foot]

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

Handball,
I am assuming that everybody voting in your poll for the founding fathers is casting a vote for Freedom and Liberty for all white men? Is this your intent?

2cents, we don't always see eye to eye but touche!

 

[EWSoccer64]

This has to be the dumbest riposte on these boards in quite some time.   You don't like the opinions that someone has so you call him a racist?   How juvenile!   

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

Handball,
I am assuming that everybody voting in your poll for the founding fathers is casting a vote for Freedom and Liberty for all white men? Is this your intent?

[Left Foot]

This has to be the dumbest riposte on these boards in quite some time.   You don't like the opinions that someone has so you call him a racist?   How juvenile!   

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

Handball,
I am assuming that everybody voting in your poll for the founding fathers is casting a vote for Freedom and Liberty for all white men? Is this your intent?

Come on EW, surely you are feigning a bit of dopiness here. Do you really not get what 2cents is talking about? 

[EWSoccer64]

Seriously, Leftie, I do not get your intent.   Opposition to Obama is not racist.  Those who oppose him are not racist.  Personally, I have had Black friends for as long as I can remember having friends.  To claim that supporting the constition and the way it was framed - mostly by non-slave owning people - is racist is down right dumb.

One of my good friends is a Black man, a great socer coach and and highly respected legal beagle.  (OK, being a lawyer is a strike against him.  But since my wife is a lawyer also, I cannot hold that against him - too much.   What do you call an attorney with an IQ of 40?   "Your Honor").   Since he grew up in Seattle, he is a conditioned Democrat and a big Obama supporter.    We are great friends, have coached each others kids, etc. He and I have had great and very civil conversations about politics, and I had to admit to him that I was very wrong when all my political calculations about who would be the first Black president ( I figured that Colin Powell could beat Hilary in 2012 ) were wrong.

The default position that everyone who is against Obama's far left policies is racist is going to wreck the cozy relationship between the Black community and the democratic party.   We have already seen signs of this in Congress, where the Democratic Leadership is preventing prosecution or investigation into Black members of congress that have engaged in wrong doing.

I think that this shows a real racism on the part of the Democratic Party.    They are holding Blacks, simply by their race, to a different, LESSER, standard.   That is racist to the core, at its very worst in any democratic society.

Let's just treat everyone equally.  And more forward as a nation of red, white and blue citizens.  With less taxes, less government and greater personal freeedom, with gun ownership rights for all, no matter what color their skin might be.

This has to be the dumbest riposte on these boards in quite some time.   You don't like the opinions that someone has so you call him a racist?   How juvenile!   

I'll stick with Adams, Washington, Madison et al.

Handball,
I am assuming that everybody voting in your poll for the founding fathers is casting a vote for Freedom and Liberty for all white men? Is this your intent?

Come on EW, surely you are feigning a bit of dopiness here. Do you really not get what 2cents is talking about? 

[Left Foot]

Sorry you had to write all that EW. I will have to let 2cents speak for his or her self re the whole racist issue. I don't believe I've seen anyone on here who is "anti-Obama" because of his or her race.

I took 2cents to be pointing out that in a country that the founding fathers created, slavery was legal and only wealthy white men could vote -- no women voting either. The question then becomes, which of the founding father's America's are you holding up as the model. 1800 America, or an America which has grown and changed over time under a system which allows for that growth and change.

This whole thread is ridiculous -- the founding fathers vs. Obama. More chicken little, my party isn't in power, get your guns and defend the promised land clap-trap. And I mean that in the nicest possible way......

[swedish]

[quote author=Left Foot link=topic=13758.msg239777#msg239777 date=1257355197
I took 2cents to be pointing out that in a country that the founding fathers created, slavery was legal and only wealthy white men could vote -- no women voting either. The question then becomes, which of the founding father's America's are you holding up as the model. 1800 America, or an America which has grown and changed over time under a system which allows for that growth and change.




GREAT POINTS LEFTY!!!   +1 for you!!!

[EWSoccer64]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

[Left Foot]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

[goldengoal]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

[Left Foot]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

[goldengoal]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

[Left Foot]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

Ok, lets digress.

Do you believe that the Federal govt' had the power to make and enforce laws severely limiting child labor?
How about implementing and enforcing anti-trust laws?
How about the FDIC taking over failing banks and liquidating the assets in an orderly way?

And the Federal  govt. is made up of 3 branches - you know, another idea of the founding fathers.

Which "govt." are you talking about that always wins?

[goldengoal]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

Ok, lets digress.

Do you believe that the Federal govt' had the power to make and enforce laws severely limiting child labor?
How about implementing and enforcing anti-trust laws?
How about the FDIC taking over failing banks and liquidating the assets in an orderly way?

And the Federal  govt. is made up of 3 branches - you know, another idea of the founding fathers.

Which "govt." are you talking about that always wins?

Referee only- enuff said and that is all that can be said- If you want government to push your agenda, then that is not what our founding fathers had in mind-

[Left Foot]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

Ok, lets digress.

Do you believe that the Federal govt' had the power to make and enforce laws severely limiting child labor?
How about implementing and enforcing anti-trust laws?
How about the FDIC taking over failing banks and liquidating the assets in an orderly way?

And the Federal  govt. is made up of 3 branches - you know, another idea of the founding fathers.

Which "govt." are you talking about that always wins?

Referee only- enuff said and that is all that can be said- If you want government to push your agenda, then that is not what our founding fathers had in mind-

Why won't you answer my questions? Surely Glen Beck or RL have provided a script for this sort of thing. 

My agenda at the turn of the century would have included trust busting, same as one of EW's hero's Teddy Roosevelt. Is that beyond the power of the federal govt. as you see it? Should be easy...

[goldengoal]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected. 
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

Ok, lets digress.

Do you believe that the Federal govt' had the power to make and enforce laws severely limiting child labor?
How about implementing and enforcing anti-trust laws?
How about the FDIC taking over failing banks and liquidating the assets in an orderly way?

And the Federal  govt. is made up of 3 branches - you know, another idea of the founding fathers.

Which "govt." are you talking about that always wins?

Referee only- enuff said and that is all that can be said- If you want government to push your agenda, then that is not what our founding fathers had in mind-

Why won't you answer my questions? Surely Glen Beck or RL have provided a script for this sort of thing. 

My agenda at the turn of the century would have included trust busting, same as one of EW's hero's Teddy Roosevelt. Is that beyond the power of the federal govt. as you see it? Should be easy...

Referee is my answer-FDIC taking over banks- not a good idea

[Left Foot]

And in the country that the founding fathers created -
There was no welfare system that went from generation to generation.
Permanently Standing Armies were forbidden.
Blacks were allowed to enlist in the Army and serve equally alongside whites.
Property rights were respected.  
Prostitiutiuon, gambling, all drugs and such were all local issues, and mostly ignoredor fully legal.
No National bank system run by the government to screw with the economy, just a normal business cycle of " boom and bust".
Freedom of speech and all the lawsuits and other conseuences of defamation.
Less crime because justice was much more swift and likely fatal.
So on and so forth.
To use the old canard that "they had slavery" is a bogus arguement.   Name one society that did or had not had previously slavery, either de jure or de facto, back then.   Most of the world used chattel slavery in some form or another at the time.   Hell, it is a historical fact that China imported as many slaves from Africa as the US did.   They simply had laws that required the castration of male African slaves.

To look back at the founding of our country, both the Dems and the Reps are now way off base.  It is the Libertarians who have it right.

I'm still not sure if you are advocating regression back to a simpler time -- in which case it seems unfair to have your cake and eat it to re the conditions of the time -- or are harking back to a set of principles which, is also a problem, because the principles espoused by the founders found their expression in the system defined by a constitution which is extremely flexible and meant to accommodate the needs of a changing world.

The US Constitution is the 1st document that changed the World, every other way to rule has already been repeated.

Sorry, don't see what you are trying to say. I mean, its a real simple question. Some folks seem to want to return to some time in the past where the US fit their current view of how things should be. I just want to know when that was.

who wants to go to the past? We just want to keep government out of our "hair". Government should be a referee and not a referee and a player because they will always win

Ok, lets digress.

Do you believe that the Federal govt' had the power to make and enforce laws severely limiting child labor?
How about implementing and enforcing anti-trust laws?
How about the FDIC taking over failing banks and liquidating the assets in an orderly way?

And the Federal  govt. is made up of 3 branches - you know, another idea of the founding fathers.

Which "govt." are you talking about that always wins?

Referee only- enuff said and that is all that can be said- If you want government to push your agenda, then that is not what our founding fathers had in mind-

Why won't you answer my questions? Surely Glen Beck or RL have provided a script for this sort of thing.  

My agenda at the turn of the century would have included trust busting, same as one of EW's hero's Teddy Roosevelt. Is that beyond the power of the federal govt. as you see it? Should be easy...

Referee is my answer-FDIC taking over banks- not a good idea

Please, please, please -- what about anti-trust laws, child labor laws -- referring or too damn far in your opinion.

At least we have established that you are more of a Herbert Hoover fan. Runs on banks, don't worry about them. It will all come out in the wash.

[EWSoccer64]

What about Moral Risk, leftie?  Your position seems to be that the government oblivates Moral Risk.

Child Labor or the state taking away children on a whim?   Keeping families together or forcing them onto welfare?

What about the laws out lawing the sale of home made garments?

Card Check?

The latest on the Pelosi-Obama national health care is that you can spend 5 years in jail if you refuse to participate.   Something else you are in favor of?

Motorcycle helmet laws, another intrustion by the government.

What about retroactive zoning and destruction of means of livelihood by implementation of beaurocratic regulations? 


You can't have it your way without the destructive consequences.

[Left Foot]

What about Moral Risk, leftie?  Your position seems to be that the government oblivates Moral Risk.

Child Labor or the state taking away children on a whim?   Keeping families together or forcing them onto welfare?

What about the laws out lawing the sale of home made garments?

Card Check?

The latest on the Pelosi-Obama national health care is that you can spend 5 years in jail if you refuse to participate.   Something else you are in favor of?

Motorcycle helmet laws, another intrustion by the government.

What about retroactive zoning and destruction of means of livelihood by implementation of beaurocratic regulations? 


You can't have it your way without the destructive consequences.

Ha, now we are getting somewhere. Do I hear some hint that the issue is a bit more complicated than just the "dems are marxist cause the federal govt. becomes involved in the economy." There are always trade-offs and have been from day one.

By the way, what does "oblivate" mean? And I'm not following you on the whole moral risk thing.

What do you think of the trust busting that Teddy spearheaded. Huge involvement in the economy/capitalist model of the time?

BTW - What is the "way" that I supposedly want things?