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[Drfredc]

UPDATED Coaching movement list

There's likely to be all sorts of BU16 movement this year, largely spurred on by coaching changes in the P1-P2 ranks.  Well over half of the top BU16 teams will have a new coach this year.  

When a coach leaves, roster spots and loyalties may go out the window as new coaches don't have much cause to offer roster spots to middle of the road utility players just because they were with the team next year.  Otherwise good players who don't tryout well may suffer from recognition anxiety.  

Anyway, here's the UPDATED list of BU16 P1-P2 coaching changes.  

    * XFire ExBrown -- Storm Greens B90 Coach moves to XFire Brown. Chad Brown moves on to coach college at UNLV. Rumor is the XFire goal is to put together a nationally competitive team by consolidating top local metro talents onto one team.
    * Storm Green and Roma shuffle coaching assignments within the Club to attempt settle things down a bit for B90 coaches who've moved on.
    * HSA -- New coach? (from Sparta 90)
    * Sparta -- New coach?
    * Titans -- New coach with top notch ODP coaching experience (Dan Struk), amongst other resume tangibles.
    * Xfire Ex-Burpo -- Sounders Keeper/XFire Burpo coach moves on to higher soccer leagues.  Not sure who is replacing Burpo.
    * Timbers Blue & Red -- New Coaches (rumor)
    * EC Green -- New Coach

Final comments -- a part of the hysteria that's likely to happen at this coming weekend tryouts is related to the late Cup date for the middle youth ages.  Another part of this is related to the Premier Club evolution, with top coaches migrating to top larger clubs.

Perhaps some tryout sanity might evolve if roster offers and letters of intent couldn't be made until 16 days after the tryout season opens to give everyone a reasonable option to tryout were they want, at a pace that is at least partially sane.

[Big Youth]

It is hard to handicap the effect of these changes.  Crossfire's A team may attract some interest, simply because a new coach means a fresh look.  However, that may be offset by the perception that the new guy may be bringing in a few of his own players, and he knows that too many changes are going to hurt chemistry.

I don't think the change to Jon Matsushita is going to preclude happy feet at Emerald City.  Jon doesn't have the record of making teams competitive (I also think he is more effective at younger age groups).  Emerald City is not well placed to showcase its players in this age group.

I think the departure of Preston is a negative for Crossfire B.  I think Preston was an underappreciated coach in the area and the team will suffer in his absence.

I think that the two best opportunities are at Eastside Red and Federal Way.  The latter because it is a very good team that should have a few spots available because of defectors who go with Andy.  Its record should get them into any tournaments they want to go to.

Eastside Red is an opportunity because it is one of the more consistent and successful teams in the age group, they are well coached, and as shown by the finals game, they could use a few more players.

[Drfredc]

... Crossfire's A team may attract some interest, simply because a new coach means a fresh look.  However, that may be offset by the perception that the new guy may be bringing in a few of his own players, and he knows that too many changes are going to hurt chemistry.

IMHO, team chemistry is overrated.  Most top players at this age have played for several coaches and with varied groups of players.  Many will be playing HS soccer for the first time this year.

Chemistry isn't likely to be all that much of a factor so long as the coach is reasonably capable at both recruiting players and getting the most out of those he's got. .

[Big Youth]

... Crossfire's A team may attract some interest, simply because a new coach means a fresh look.  However, that may be offset by the perception that the new guy may be bringing in a few of his own players, and he knows that too many changes are going to hurt chemistry.

IMHO, team chemistry is overrated.  Most top players at this age have played for several coaches and with varied groups of players.  Many will be playing HS soccer for the first time this year.

Chemistry isn't likely to be all that much of a factor so long as the coach is reasonably capable at both recruiting players and getting the most out of those he's got. .

We can agree to disagee on this point.  Having had a couple of kids go through the system all the way to college soccer, and having been involved in club administration at for a while, I'd have to say that I've seen several successful older teams tanked by bad team chemistry.  The players aren't just widgets; they have personalities and preferences.  Trust is one of the issues that comes into play when you make a decision to pass a ball or make a run.  A coach can only control such factors to a degree.  A ancillary point is that I've also seen the effect that a few jerks can have on a team.

I'm not saying that a coach shouldn't make changes.  I'm just saying that large changes can have a big impact on team chemistry and that is one factor to consider.  Obviously, some teams don't have chemistry worth saving, and some changes present such a talent upgrade that the risk is worthwhile.  It just is one more thing to consider.

[Drfredc]

.... I'd have to say that I've seen several successful older teams tanked by bad team chemistry...

For every good team tanked by lost team chemistry due to a few player changes, there's probably dozens who've been improved by quality player movement and coaching that is capable of dynamically dealing with change and getting the most of the players.

In my limited observations of struggling youth soccer teams, what I've typically seen happen is players who've moved on had various unheralded tangible and intangible talents that were not adequately evaluated and/or replaced.

IMHO, team chemistry is generally related to the untapped, undeveloped, or underdeveloped talents that some players call upon to cover situations where they are called to function beyond their norm.  

In other words, if you've got a team with lots of interchangable parts because there's generally broad reasonable developed talents across the board, team chemistry is probably a minor deal.  Successful or not, if you got a team where everyone has their specific niche or two they hang in and player adaptability is poorly developed, team chemistry is huge.  

And yes, there's some coaches who tend to develop teams of one or the other type.

[thenry14]

sparta 90's coach moved to heat

[Big Youth]

.... I'd have to say that I've seen several successful older teams tanked by bad team chemistry...

For every good team tanked by lost team chemistry due to a few player changes, there's probably dozens who've been improved by quality player movement and coaching that is capable of dynamically dealing with change and getting the most of the players.

In my limited observations of struggling youth soccer teams, what I've typically seen happen is players who've moved on had various unheralded tangible and intangible talents that were not adequately evaluated and/or replaced.

IMHO, team chemistry is generally related to the untapped, undeveloped, or underdeveloped talents that some players call upon to cover situations where they are called to function beyond their norm.  

In other words, if you've got a team with lots of interchangable parts because there's generally broad reasonable developed talents across the board, team chemistry is probably a minor deal.  Successful or not, if you got a team where everyone has their specific niche or two they hang in and player adaptability is poorly developed, team chemistry is huge.  

And yes, there's some coaches who tend to develop teams of one or the other type.

I think you are misunderstanding my point.  I never argued against changes, or suggested that all changes of any number would negatively affect chemistry.  Changes can enhance chemistry, and sometimes changes would be advisable even if there is a short term chemistry hit.  It would be rare for a top P1 team BU15 or above not to make 1 to 3 changes in a year.  Such teams attract talent, and some rostered players can't keep pace or don't want to keep doing it.  My contention is that large changes often present a chemistry challenge.  Challenges don't necessarily mean "problem" and problems aren't necessarily incapable of solution.  As always is the case, a coach presented with the possiblity of a large change has to consider the chemistry of the existing team, what effect the departees may have on chemistry, the talent differential between the potential adds and the potential departees, what the coach's plans for the team are.

In the case of Andy going to Crossfire, there is the added dimension of Andy not really knowing the team, although I expect that Chad will be around to help with tryouts.

[topper]

Chad left last week for LV, won't be at tryouts.  Preston gone also.  Both coaches gave notes to new coaches (B team coach from NWM Roma, same age group).  Shawn Purcell with C team does know kids, and Andy has scouted team before.

[soccertag]

Chad will not be around for tryouts and any major change on the Xfire team will be due mostly to additions. They have a small roster to begin with leaving lots of room for Andy to bring new players into the mix.  That team had several changes last year with 3 kids leaving and one being brought on from their Super Y roster.  Also 3 or 4 new kids brought on during tryouts.  It seems they can handle a lot of change and still continue to improve.  I would think the core of the team is strong and would benefit from a coach hanging around longer than a year or two.  

If storm replaces Andy with a strong coach I would think that most of the families will stay put.  Who wants to drive up to Redmond 2-3X's a week and sit in traffic 3 hours a day?  Drfred will have to replenish the parents prescriptions to keep them sane!


More worried about the emerald city boys.      
There will be a number of boys searching for greener pitches to be playing on.  

EFC Red losses big to the storm.  Possible defensive problems finally surfacing.  There might be room after all for new players.  I don't think it was wise to have their tryouts at the same time as Xfire.  Maybe they should add a third tryout day like the club up north to pick up any players that were cut or not picked up by Xfire.  I would think that they will get a fewer numer of the top players knocking at their door.  We soon shall see....

[Drfredc]

It seems they [XFfire] can handle a lot of change and still continue to improve.  I would think the core of the team is strong and would benefit from a coach hanging around longer than a year or two.  

Most quality clubs, teams, coaches and players can handle change. As I've said numerous times over the past year or so, XFire (the club) has shown how to take a reasonable and steady path to putting together a top team.  It's been like a slowly developing chess game where the pieces evolve and change.  Kudos to their sticking with it a team that I don't recall make it out of Cup brackets a couple years ago.  Now look at the possibilities... Whod'v thunkit

If storm replaces Andy with a strong coach I would think that most of the families will stay put.  Who wants to drive up to Redmond 2-3X's a week and sit in traffic 3 hours a day?

I've heard rumors (some from within XFire Brown) that run all over the map about how many might follow Andy and how many Xfire spots might be kept.  IMHO, it all depends upon whether or not the parents feel Xfire can put their kids on a national stage.  It's a possibility and this is a critical year.  At this point in time, nationally competitive teams isn't going to happen at FW Storm B90s, although those who stay will still have fun and more than reasonable success playing there.  One can clearly expect them to always play up a notch when they play XFire...

More worried about the emerald city boys.      
There will be a number of boys searching for greener pitches to be playing on.  

I wasn't aware the Green were also changing coaches.  However, I agree, the B90 age group at EC seems to be imploding with both Green and White dropping down and down.  These teams have HAD plenty of talent.  However, broadly based skill and tactical development seems to have been lacking.  Then a critical player loss and ....  

I don't think it was wise to have their tryouts at the same time as Xfire.  Maybe they should add a third tryout day like the club up north

If there are two tryouts at the same time on subsequent days, attend one the first day, then the other the next day.  Kind of a no brainer...

-----------

That all being said, perhaps some normalcy to WAs tryout zoo might be if roster offers and "letters of intent" couldn't be made before two weeks after the last cup game.  This one weekend of tryout chaos after Cup games are over is a train wreck in progress...

[Big Youth]

Unless one concludes that Andy is major factor in hitting the national stage (and he hasn't done it before that I know of), I don't know why Crossfire would be more likely to provide that opportunity in the 90 age group than Storm.  Storm, at the moment, has the roster and a resume of success.  The Nike Cup in which Crossfire participates is just one tournament, and recognition can be achieved in many other tournaments and other ways.

Of course, if top Storm players head to Crossfire, it will likely be a key contender in the state, but I don't see any clear path to national prominance.

[Drfredc]

...I don't know why Crossfire would be more likely to provide that opportunity in the 90 age group than Storm.  Storm, at the moment, has the roster and a resume of success.  The Nike Cup in which Crossfire participates is just one tournament, ...

The Nike Cup was HUGE for XFire at BU16 last year, not just on a national, but international level.  

It's reasonably possible that the XFire B90s could be competitive again this year at the Nike Cup with the addition of a couple top Storm players, perhaps a couple others from here or there, plus they've got a couple of last year's Nike Cup participants in their stable who could play their age and join the team for another go at the Nike Cup 2006.  

This is stuff that is doable with minimal effort using their pieces in play right now.  

From a XFire Big Picture perspective, if the XFire Club wants to make a statement about having a top US youth soccer program, making a reasonable show, repeating and/or eclipsing last years Nike Cup performance instead of being just a "one year flash in the pan" seems to be on the table.  

As far as Coach Andy's national experience goes, I seriously doubt he'd be the only top XFire coach on the sidelines during Nike Cup play.

[soccermama]

This isn't the pros Dr. this is Youth soccer.  I think that it is a shame that the focus is on building a "super team" than discussing the carnage of what should be the top team which is Storm '90.  They earned it and the fact that it will be broken apart is a real bummer for the players that stay, the Xfire players that will be displaced and the trickle down affect.  I know that's life - but people need to get some perspective and focus on what the right thing to do for the majority of the youth players, not the "selected few".

If this is the direction the WSYSA wants to go, then they should just say so and have open recruiting times, signing bonuses for coaches and key players and relegate the rest to "independent" clubs who don't belong with the "Big Boys"

[edmonds55]

This isn't the pros Dr. this is Youth soccer.  I think that it is a shame that the focus is on building a "super team" than discussing the carnage of what should be the top team which is Storm '90.  They earned it and the fact that it will be broken apart is a real bummer for the players that stay, the Xfire players that will be displaced and the trickle down affect.  I know that's life - but people need to get some perspective and focus on what the right thing to do for the majority of the youth players, not the "selected few".

If this is the direction the WSYSA wants to go, then they should just say so and have open recruiting times, signing bonuses for coaches and key players and relegate the rest to "independent" clubs who don't belong with the "Big Boys"

Babe;  now that EFC Red are state champs,  will your coach follow that philosophy, keep the team intact?  Or will he look to upgrade now that he has a state championship to defend AND may have opportunity to do just this due to a better turnout at tryouts?  Does he remain status quo,  your compadre (VMS) is hoping team will upgrade some spots on offense,  how will that go over with the kids that are displaced? My bet is he will make 3 or 4 changes if the right players show up,  or the players EFC have been actively recruiting sign on.  

[soccertag]

Soccermam wrote:

if this is the direction the WSYSA wants to go, then they should just say so and have open recruiting times, signing bonuses for coaches and key players and relegate the rest to "independent" clubs who don't belong with the "Big Boys"

I don't think it is a WSYSA agenda but it certainly is Bernie's agenda.  He wants to build a bigger and better club.  As I see it there isn't anything wrong with the direction that Xfire is moving.  As you pointed out, it will displace a number of boys that have built the team and it is sad to see how it will affect those that are asked to move on.  I'm not against the year to year adjustments that every team goes through but I think this year will have a greater toll on more kids that really don't deserve being cut.... all for the sake of building a "super" team.

[vms]

Will your son be at tryouts Eddy? Missed you last nite at the open practice

[settingvmsstraight]

Will your son be at tryouts Eddy? Missed you last nite at the open practice

Wouldn't be prudent, not gonna happen.

[vms]

Why? Are you his alter ego? :lol:  :lol:

[edmonds55]

VMS;  sorry not tonight,  FC United's first tryout is tonight AND according to their website,  all players MUST be at all turnouts  if they want a spot...........

[soccermama]

Soccertag - that's my point.  Natural attrition during tryouts is normal and expected and for those who don't get chosen or who have been on the team and don't get chosen it is a painful experience, but that's within the norm.  I just think this other stuff is a little outside the "tryout" arena.
 
Eddy, Yes, EFC will most like see some new faces and will have to say goodbye to some families and players that have been on the team this year and possibly for many years and that is always hard.  But it is within the time period that this happens - tryouts.  All of our practices have been closed until our last game (Sunday) and now EFC has had 2 open practices, yesterday and today.  Did EFC lose out on some potential players due to the closed practice philosophy, maybe, but at least the players knew that the club and coaches were supporting them until the end.  So all those Dynamo players that have been calling up, aksing to come out and practice with the State Champs have been turned away - until now.  See you tonight  

[edmonds55]

Soccertag - that's my point.  Natural attrition during tryouts is normal and expected and for those who don't get chosen or who have been on the team and don't get chosen it is a painful experience, but that's within the norm.  I just think this other stuff is a little outside the "tryout" arena.
 
Eddy, Yes, EFC will most like see some new faces and will have to say goodbye to some families and players that have been on the team this year and possibly for many years and that is always hard.  But it is within the time period that this happens - tryouts.  All of our practices have been closed until our last game (Sunday) and now EFC has had 2 open practices, yesterday and today.  Did EFC lose out on some potential players due to the closed practice philosophy, maybe, but at least the players knew that the club and coaches were supporting them until the end.  So all those Dynamo players that have been calling up, aksing to come out and practice with the State Champs have been turned away - until now.  See you tonight  

Babefabulous,  NOW you tell me?  Would saved a lot time and phone calls if someone would have said something back then........all those Dynamo players calling,  really just one..........

[Brilliant!]

:shock: Once again, the now BU15's have turned a thread about another age group into a thread about themselves - sad :cry:

[edmonds55]

:shock: Once again, the now BU15's have turned a thread about another age group into a thread about themselves - sad :cry:

Brilliant,  at least we're consistant, and bring something to the table.

[Big Youth]

:shock: Once again, the now BU15's have turned a thread about another age group into a thread about themselves - sad :cry:

Brilliant,  at least we're consistant, and bring something to the table.

Eddy, half right is only half wrong so....but wait! You didn't spell "consistent" correctly either, so you are below 50% now.

Just teasing Eddy, and you didn't jump topic all by yourself, here. However, I think that both the BU16 and BU15 tryouts will have plenty of drama, so maintaing different threads over the next week might not be a bad idea.

I saw your son play in the quarterfinal, and thought he showed himself to be a talented player and a good athlete.  One hopes his team will continue to provide him with the talent and dedication that meets his goals.

[edmonds55]

:shock: Once again, the now BU15's have turned a thread about another age group into a thread about themselves - sad :cry:

Brilliant,  at least we're consistant, and bring something to the table.

Eddy, half right is only half wrong so....but wait! You didn't spell "consistent" correctly either, so you are below 50% now.

Just teasing Eddy, and you didn't jump topic all by yourself, here. However, I think that both the BU16 and BU15 tryouts will have plenty of drama, so maintaing different threads over the next week might not be a bad idea.

I saw your son play in the quarterfinal, and thought he showed himself to be a talented player and a good athlete.  One hopes his team will continue to provide him with the talent and dedication that meets his goals.

Thanks Bigyouth,  this thread would have gone nowhere without your input on first page to boring DFredC,  I mean "BU 16 Tryout Fluidity",  that's just too much "George F. Will"  I believe,  if you know  what  I mean,  how about  "BU 16 Tryout Stupidity?" Oh well,  to each their own.....thanks for the compliment about my son,  he is a fine, fine player and he is truly dedicated to his coach and teammates....

In any case I'll try to stay out of the BU 16 drama......by the way you misspelled  "maintaining",  I'm sure you're much more "consistant" when not in such a hurry to write,  just like me.   :lol:

[Big Youth]

:shock: Once again, the now BU15's have turned a thread about another age group into a thread about themselves - sad :cry:

Brilliant,  at least we're consistant, and bring something to the table.

Eddy, half right is only half wrong so....but wait! You didn't spell "consistent" correctly either, so you are below 50% now.

Just teasing Eddy, and you didn't jump topic all by yourself, here. However, I think that both the BU16 and BU15 tryouts will have plenty of drama, so maintaing different threads over the next week might not be a bad idea.

I saw your son play in the quarterfinal, and thought he showed himself to be a talented player and a good athlete.  One hopes his team will continue to provide him with the talent and dedication that meets his goals.

Thanks Bigyouth,  this thread would have gone nowhere without your input on first page to boring DFredC,  I mean "BU 16 Tryout Fluidity",  that's just too much "George F. Will"  I believe,  if you know  what  I mean,  how about  "BU 16 Tryout Stupidity?" Oh well,  to each their own.....thanks for the compliment about my son,  he is a fine, fine player and he is truly dedicated to his coach and teammates....

In any case I'll try to stay out of the BU 16 drama......by the way you misspelled  "maintaining",  I'm sure you're much more "consistant" when not in such a hurry to write,  just like me.   :lol:

I always make mistakes.  Fortunately, I post in too much of a hurry to claim I'm adding value or trying to be accurate, so I'm saved from failing to meet those standards.

Low expectations = rarely having a disappointing day

[Drfredc]

... I know that's life - but people need to get some perspective and focus on what the right thing to do for the majority of the youth players, not the "selected few".

Agreed, sort of.  There is no entitlement to being the 'select few'. Nor is this issue about the 'majority' of players out there.  

The lesson folks need to learn is to work hard to develop your talent to the max.  In team sports, part of this process means competing with others (including teammates) for spots on various teams, then working with many of those same to further team goals.     It shouldn't be about clubs or teams essentially owning players or limiting their mobility via regulations for some club's own (non-profit) rewards.  Aka, if the Storm players all want to stay with Storm, fine. If XFire offers competitive opportunities for the best players that Storm cann't meet, that's the way it works.

If this is the direction the WSYSA wants to go, then they should just say so and have open recruiting times, signing bonuses for coaches and key players and relegate the rest to "independent" clubs who don't belong with the "Big Boys"

Signing bonuses... Hmmm...   For some youth soccer players that means "scholarships" -- "the Club must give me a free ride or I'll go somewhere else".  However, do away with scholarships and you lose some players from the game.   Perhaps 'scholarships' should be awarded by the WSYSA from a common 'blind' fund the clubs support to eliminate that ethical issue at the club level.  If you qualify, the scholarship applies to any WSYSA club/program you are offered to play at.

As far as coaching contracts go, IMHO, for quite some time there has been a significant serious ethical disconnect going on in so-called amatuer sport coaching.

There's nothing wrong with getting reasonably paid for one's services according to what the market will bear, but the practice (as seen in various so called 'amatuer' football and basketball college contracts) of adding additional monetary rewards to coaching contracts for reaching this or that goal seriously corrupts the amatuer sport process.  IMHO, Coaches should be on the same plane as amatuer players when it comes to winning or losing -- it all should be done for the game, for your school/club/team, not for an additional monetary prize for the coach's pocket -- at least not if one wants to call it an amatuer sport.

[vms]

Sorry Eddy that you and son are not coming over to EFC. Together we could rule WPS. :lol:  Good luck with tryouts... wherever your son lands, that team will be the better for it!!

[Big Youth]

Now that tryouts are being held, does anyone have any updates?

I've heard about five of the Federal Way Storm players migrated to FC United.  I also heard that the Snohimish Titans may have a key loss or two, and at least one of them won't be to Crossfire.

I've also heard that Jon M. already has chased off a bunch of the Emerald City pool.

[soccertag]

Now that tryouts are being held, does anyone have any updates?

I've heard about five of the Federal Way Storm players migrated to FC United.  I also heard that the Snohimish Titans may have a key loss or two, and at least one of them won't be to Crossfire.

I've also heard that Jon M. already has chased off a bunch of the Emerald City pool.

Big news is EFC red GK quit and they are looking for a replacement!

Also know that a few of the boys from storm showed up at Xfire.  Anything else?