Washington-OregonPremierSoccer.Com Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: The Proposal  (Read 12916 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

2 CENTS

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +75/-84
  • Posts: 691
  • Joined 28/07/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
The Proposal
« on: January 11, 2010, 02:28:42 PM »

Version ?

Proposal

Moving forward for Premier/ Regional level
Seamless Soccer Opportunity System

and

Resolving Washington Youth Soccer/ PDL alignment





 

Contents
Background   3
District Leagues/ WSYSA Premier/ PDL   3
Changed situation   3
Seamless Soccer Opportunity System, Premier/ Regional level   3
Thinking bigger – formalize structure/ roadmap for Premier/ Regional   4
Executive Summary of Proposal   5
Value Proposition   5
Key structures   6
Dual affiliation for Premier/ Regional clubs   6
Regional Club subcommittee   8
Organization Structure, Roles and Responsibilities   9
Washington Youth Soccer league modifications   10
Washington Youth Soccer Cup Modifications (proposed)   11
Action Plan   13
Stakeholder review/ buy-in   13
Appendix   14
Appendix A – Association and Player Count table   14
Appendix B - Reference materials from WYS Strategic Plan   16

 

Background
There are a number of factors driving the approach recommended in this proposal that need to be considered.
District Leagues/ WSYSA Premier/ PDL
•   As Premier Clubs developed, WYSYA remained relatively stagnant
•   Prior to recent years, WSYSA leadership was non-responsive to requests/ concerns raised by Premier clubs regarding quality and consistency of competition and development
•   In Spring 2006, a group of clubs and their district leadership came together to develop the PDL, introducing a change agent into Washington Youth Soccer. The initial focus was on organizing league play for U11-U13, with strict requirements for club participation to ensure a common approach to development and quality competition
•   As WSYSA continued to be inflexible, this was expanded to include older groups as the PDL continued to grow, with the 93 year leading the way
•   As a result, many of the top competitive clubs in Washington Youth Soccer are now playing in the PDL, outside of the Washington Youth Soccer league structure
There have been a number of unintended consequences of this change, including the dilution of district leagues, the dilution of the WSYSA Premier league, a reduction in WSYSA revenues, the eventual elimination of LPTs, and issues with structure/ seeding for state cups.

Changed situation
•   Washington Youth Soccer leadership recognized the problems with the state organization over two years ago
•   Major changes have been implemented in the past 3 months, including the restructuring of Washington Youth Soccer leadership, the initial design of a “seamless soccer opportunity system”, and the introduction of a new Executive Director with greater capabilities and responsibilities
•   The Washington Youth Soccer league has been redefined, and now has the flexibility that was introduced in the PDL structure; serving ages U13 and up
•   The Washington soccer community has been fragmenting. A new league (PSPL) has been introduced as an alternative to Washington Youth Soccer sanctioned leagues, threatening to further dilute soccer development and competition
•   USSF/USYSA have raised concerns over the PDL structure and perceived exclusivity
Seamless Soccer Opportunity System, Premier/ Regional level
In the appendix is the material regarding the Premier/ Regional level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System. Please review this material prior to evaluating this proposal. To summarize a few key points:
•   The focus is on a system of development for players, not the development of teams or specific leagues
•   The standards that are discussed are much more aligned to the current definition of a Premier club than a team or even multi-purpose/ select club environment
•   The principles are very aligned with the current approach of the PDL, including standards of conduct
•   Implementing a consistent program aimed at the Premier/ Regional level of play is more effectively executed in a centralized fashion
Thinking bigger – formalize structure/ roadmap for Premier/ Regional
Rather than approach this situation as the simple forced integration of the Washington Youth Soccer Premier leagues and the PDL – the opportunity is to “reinvent” the approach to the Premier/ Regional level of development and play, in alignment with the vision of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System. What follows is a proposal for how that can be accomplished, including a high-level action plan.
Executive Summary of Proposal
Value Proposition
Washington Youth Soccer will gain an accelerated implementation of the Premier/ Regional level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System through:
1)   The dual chartering of the current top premier clubs by local association as “Regional Clubs”
2)   The servicing of those clubs by a dedicated Washington Youth Soccer league
3)   The participation/ leadership of those clubs in the refinement and implementation of the Premier/ Regional level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System through membership in the Regional Club subcommittee  of the Oversight Committee for Washington Youth Soccer
The top –performing Premier clubs based on competitive results (currently from the PDL) will gain a permanent voice in the Premier/ Regional level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System through:
1)   Dual affiliation through registration with their “home” association and a direct Washington Youth Soccer “chartering” as a Regional Club, with consistency of charter coming from Washington Youth Soccer
2)   Voted representative membership on the Regional Club subcommittee  of the Oversight Committee
3)   Regional Club subcommittee  direction of the Regional Club league structure – a Washington Youth Soccer-operated league
Associations will gain the ability to ensure representation for their membership in the Premier/ Regional level of play through:
1)   Investing in meeting well-defined criteria for formation/ support of an association Premier/ Regional club
2)   Partnering or consolidating with neighboring associations where necessary to provide a deep, quality program
3)   Partnering with Washington Youth Soccer staff, committees, and board to address issues/ concerns with the performance and value of their designated Premier/ Regional club
Players, coaches, and families will gain a clear path to the highest level of development and play as envisioned and sanctioned by Washington Youth Soccer and their local association:
1)   Well defined, consistent developmental standards as established by the Technical Director, the Regional Club subcommittee, and the Oversight Committee
2)   Structured, sponsored communication/ education on the role of the Premier/ Regional level of development and play
3)   Continuous innovation and education related to this level of play from a strong, facilitated community
4)   Continued competition among Premier/ Regional clubs to ensure a competitive, market-aligned service

Key structures
There are a number of structures required for the successful implementation of this proposal.
Dual affiliation for Premier/ Regional clubs
In order to ensure a consistent approach to the Premier/ Regional system and enable fairly rapid changes to the Premier/ Regional club charters as the system evolves, we are proposing the introduction of a Regional Club Charter, sanctioned directly by Washington Youth Soccer. Clubs with this charter would participate in the Regional Club subcommittee of the Oversight Committee. This subcommittee and Washington Youth Soccer (office, Oversight Committee, and Board) would have shared responsibility with the local Association for the governance of the Premier/ Regional Clubs and their charter. This is spelled out in more detail below, but at a high level:
•   The Regional Club subcommittee would control developmental policies and standards, ethics, governance structures/ requirements, to be reviewed and approved by the Oversight Committee
•   The Regional Clubs would implement the practices and policies defined by the Regional Club subcommittee, working with their local Association
•   The local Association would facilitate and enable communications, ongoing alignment with mod and select programs, and field access as required, and would continue their responsibilities for governance related to organizational compliance to bylaws and financial practices. The local Association will also be responsible for implementing bylaw changes to align to approved changes to the Regional Club charter
•   The Regional Club subcommittee  and local Association would work together to address issues/ conflicts, facilitated by the Washington Youth Soccer Executive Director and where required the Oversight Committee and/ or Washington Youth Soccer governing board
•   Player counts would still reside with the local association for Washington Youth Soccer votes
•   The Regional Club charter establishes a baseline that the Regional Club must be allowed to implement, although a Regional Club may form fewer teams based on their particular situation. While the local Association along with the Regional Club may choose to expand on that charter (fielding more than the minimum number of teams), there are limitations on the number of teams that can participate in the Regional Club league (see League Modifications section):

Age group   Minimum as allowed by charter   Regional Club league maximum
•   U10   •   Academy training program, no formal teams   •   N/A – Academy players will participate in jamborees/ events with other Regional Clubs; no formal team formation
•   U11   •   3   •   3
•   U12   •   3   •   3
•   U13   •   2   •   2
•   U14   •   2   •   2
•   U15 and above   •   2   •   1 A team, B team if qualified. Non-qualified B teams move to Open league; A teams have that option as well
•   Additional teams above the Regional Club League Maximum; requires a request to the Regional Club subcommittee filed by both the Regional Club and their Association
a.   Associations greater than 6k may be provided an extra slot for U11 and U12 development in the RCL
b.   Associations greater than 8k may be provided 2 extra slots for U11 and U12 development teams in the RCL, and 1 extra team at U13 and U14 in the RCL.
c.   All mergers of clubs currently in the RCL will waive the team limitation for a minimum of one year upon review of the RCC.
d.   All mergers of Associations currently represented by clubs in the RCL will waive the team limitations for a minimum of one year upon review of the RCC and the Oversight Committee.
e.   Additional teams from regional clubs wishing to participate in the RCL may petition the RCC for inclusion on the basis of:
?   Cost containment (ie: coach runs the groups as an Academy format)
?   Travel considerations (pairings, etc)
?   Competitive ability

•   Clarifying U15 and above:
o   Aligning to the concept of seamless soccer, allow high-performing club select/ developmental teams to be placed in the Regional Club league brackets. This placement would need to be based on either CAPS or finish in State Cups. (NOTE –to enable this but also ensure adherence to rules/ development, approach is to have these teams “sponsored” by their association Regional Club and the local association)
Similarly, move lower performing Regional Club B teams (and potentially some A teams) to the Open league
o   This process and structure will need to be refined as part of the Regional Club Subcommittee startup activities
Regional Club chartering is based on the following:
1)   Initial membership would be the current PDL clubs; followed by a review of Association coverage to determine if additional clubs should be added to represent Associations that do not have a Regional Club in the initial membership group (see appendix A for list of Associations/ clubs). This review will take place within the first 3 months of subcommittee formation, with recommendations due to the Oversight Committee. Recommendations subject to the additional criteria below
2)   Charters will be limited to one per Association
3)   Participation/ leadership in crafting and complying with developmental standards and the responsibilities of the Regional Club subcommittee, including enabling the development and implementation of “Long Term Player Development Pathway (LTPD)”
4)   Adherence to the following criteria. Failure to adhere to these criteria will result in a review of the Regional Club, with remediation required. Failure to address shortcomings may result in a revocation and/ or reassignment of the Regional Club charter as a last resort, requiring approval by Washington Youth Soccer (office and Oversight Committee)
a.   A properly licensed Coaching Director (UEFA/USSF B or higher) in charge of coach education, assignment, and behavior
b.   An Association endorsed and subcommittee approved development program that works with either coaches or players from other clubs within the Association and drives the development within the Regional Club
c.   Attached to a local association (or associations) with a minimum total player base of 4000. This number should be modified as future guidance is issued by Washington Youth Soccer (office, Oversight Committee, and Board) regarding the appropriate minimum and maximum size of an association. Exceptions:
i.   Part of initial grandfathered group of current PDL clubs, in which case there is a 3 year grace period to enable club and/or association mergers
ii.   The Regional Club subcommittee grants an exception based on geographic accessibility. This does not excuse that Regional Club from complying with all other standards, including CAPS performance standards. Appeals may be made to the Oversight Committee. (NOTE – this section requires specific criteria to use to determine a geographic exception)
d.   Adherence to club Governance standards to be established by the Regional Club subcommittee in conjunction with the Washington Youth Soccer office
e.   Club CAPS performance standards, to be established by the Regional Club subcommittee in conjunction with the Washington Youth Soccer office and Oversight Committee
Regional Club subcommittee
As part of the rollout of the new governance structure for Washington Youth Soccer, a subcommittee on the Premier/ Regional level of play was defined. Rather than have this be selected directly by either the Oversight Committee or the Washington Youth Soccer Board, the proposal is to have the chartered Regional Clubs elect 8 members. These members include 5 Directors of Coaching, and 3 Presidents, only one representative per Regional club. In addition, Washington Youth Soccer provides the Technical Director, the Executive Director, and an appointed staff member to act as chair and facilitator. The Oversight Committee will provide one non-voting member to the subcommittee from their ranks to ensure consistent communication. In addition, the Regional Club subcommittee will select one member to be a non-voting member of the Oversight Committee. This enables continuous alignment between these bodies.

This group forms the Regional Club subcommittee, part of the Oversight committee of the Washington Youth Soccer governing board. Washington Youth Soccer will appoint a chair, and that chair is responsible for coordinating with the Oversight Committee. The Regional Club subcommittee would be responsible for:
1)   Ongoing refinement of the Premier/ Regional level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System, including interaction with the Select/ Developmental level and Mod/Local level, including enabling the development and implementation of a “Long Term Player Development Pathway (LTPD)”
2)   Governance of the chartered Regional Clubs regarding soccer matters and compliance with league and developmental standards
3)   Representation to any leagues serving this community, including primary input for the Washington Youth Soccer Regional Club League
Organization Structure, Roles and Responsibilities
There are a number of organizational entities interacting in this area, as presented in the organization chart format below.
 
In addition, roles and responsibilities are spelled out below.

Regional Club Charter related
Topic   Regional Club Subcommittee   Oversight Committee   Governing Board
Scope-related (age groups served, number of teams, etc.)   Recommend/ propose change in charter   Review/ approval   Resolve conflict (if required)
Regional Club qualifications/ requirements   Recommend/ propose change in qualifications   Review/ approval   Resolve conflict (if required)
Regional Club charter/ qualification compliance issues   Monitor and require improvements/ corrections   Hear appeals   Hear appeals
NOTE – Regional Club and Associations are responsible for implementing charter related changes

Soccer and League-related matters
Topic   Regional Club Subcommittee   Oversight Committee   Governing Board
League rules   Formulate rules, make changes   Address changes that cross league boundaries   Resolve conflict (if required)
League formation   Establish seasonal bracketing   Hear appeals   Hear appeals
Disciplinary (league)   Responsible   n/a   n/a
Player development policies and practices   Define for Regional Club level, provide input for Select/ Developmental and Mod   Coordinate across seamless soccer opportunity system   Address any issues with alignment to strategic plan


Organizational and Financial compliance matters
Topic   Regional Club    Association   Governing Board
Adherence to bylaws   Responsible   Monitor/ address issues   Hear appeals/ provide support
Financial compliance   Responsible   Monitor/ address issues   Hear appeals/ provide support

Washington Youth Soccer league modifications
The Washington Youth Soccer strategic plan envisions a consolidation of associations, and eventual elimination of the district layer. Based on that, league structures will evolve over time. Given the current structure, the initial recommendations are:

Washington Youth Soccer Regional Club League
Key considerations include:
1)   Made up of teams from chartered Regional Clubs
2)   Primary governance support through the Regional Club subcommittee
3)   U10-U19, although it would start U10-U17, grandfathering the older P-x leagues
4)   Age groups would be modified as developmental approaches are addressed. As an example, the PDL this year introduced U10 rather than play-up U11 development teams.
5)   Fall and Spring seasons through U14; Fall for boys and Spring for girls from U15 and above
6)   Implement CAPS, use to determine competitive groupings (rather than simple promotion/ relegation) . This is necessary because it also feeds inter-league play and cup qualification/ seeding
Washington Youth Soccer Open League
This league is most easily understood as the current Washington Youth Soccer league.
1)   Divisions established/ adjusted using CAPS to ensure competitive play
2)   Primary governance support through the Select/ Developmental subcommittee
3)   U13-U19, although consideration should be given to regionalized U11/U12 and potentially for the lower competitive tiers at U13-U19 as association/ District changes move forward
4)   Fall and Spring seasons through U14; Fall for boys and Spring for girls from U15 and above
Washington Youth Soccer Player Pass
Allow the player pass across both the Regional Club League and the Open League for the purpose of playing “up” for development. Potentially expand it so that within an association, a player from a Select/ Developmental Club could use it to participate with a team from the Regional Club. This will further enable the concept of Seamless Soccer.
Washington Youth Soccer Local Area Leagues
Future – something to consider with Association/ District consolidation
Inter-league play
Because there are a limited number of Washington Youth Soccer chartered Regional Clubs, and many competitive teams outside of that group that will play in the Washington Youth Soccer Open League, there is an opportunity to introduce limited inter-league play as teams get older and CAPS provides a strong objective measure.
1)   Beginning at U14, finish the season by aligning the upper division of the Washington Youth Soccer Open League with the appropriate division(s) from the Washington Youth Soccer Regional Club League based on CAPS, playing two crossover games
2)   Expand to 3 games at U15 and above
3)   The Oversight Committee and the Regional Club subcommittee  can recommend an alternative approach
This approach will help validate CAPS accuracy and enable the Cup seeding process.
Washington Youth Soccer Cup Modifications (proposed)
Championship and Challenge Cup seedings were originally designed around the Washington State Premier League divisions. The introduction of the PDL and the migration of most of the top teams to that league created significant problems in the affected age groups. With this proposal, Cup structure needs to be addressed. Following are some initial approaches; however, this should be finalized by a combination of Washington Youth Soccer staff, the Regional Club Committee, and the Oversight Committee.
Championship Cup
By rule, this is an open championship. Recommendations below consider that:
1)   Encourage participation in the appropriate level cup, using CAPS to promote participation in the Championship Cup by the top 24-32 teams per gender/age group. CAPS can be used to highlight the competitive grouping that is most appropriate for this cup. The top 16 teams based on CAPS would be required to play in the Championship Cup.
2)   Seeding: use CAPS for seeding purposes, and do seeding for all teams entered in the cup. With this approach to seeding, byes can also be used to support a “play-in” approach when the cup entrants are more than 24.
Challenge Cup
1)   Following the same principle, use CAPS to target a logical competitive group of 24-32 teams. Consider whether it should be a requirement that all teams participating in the Regional Club league participate in at least this level of cup.
2)   Seeding: use CAPS for seeding purposes, and do seeding for all teams entered in the cup. With this approach to seeding, byes can also be used to support a “play-in” approach when the cup entrants are more than 24.
Commissioners Cup
1)   This cup is aimed primarily at the Select/Developmental level of the Seamless Soccer Opportunity System.
2)   CAPS may be useful for seeding or at least structuring of brackets; needs to be researched
3)   Not open to Regional Club league teams (NOTE – might need an exception through U12 or U13, depending on final decisions regarding the number of teams per gender/age group that Regional Clubs are allowed to field).


Action Plan
Stakeholder review/ buy-in
Oct 5-Dec 31 – review with key stakeholders, starting with PDL and Oversight Committee members, expand to targeted associations, then through an open conference call with associations
Jan– finalize initial documents supporting Regional Club charter process, form initial Regional Club subcommittee
Feb onward – complete transition plan to:
•   Make or initiate any required changes to any state, club, or association bylaws to comply with new approach
•   Launch Regional Club league for 2010-2011 seasonal year, replacing PDL leaguesDefine and rollout changes to cup processes
Appendix

Appendix A – Association and Player Count table
Non-PDL Premier/ Select Club list needs to be completed
   Association   Player Count   PDL Club   non-PDL Premier/Select Clubs
District 1       34528       
    North County Youth Soccer Association (NCYSA)   8763   Evergreen   Tynecastle, Washington Rush Soccer
    Seattle Youth Soccer Association (SYSA)   13331   ECFC   Seattle United
    Skagit Valley Youth Soccer Association (SkVYSA)   3106       Northwest United FC
    Snohomish Youth Soccer Association (SnYSA)   2061   Snohomish United   
    South Snohomish County Youth Soccer Association(SSCYSA)   2236   Northwest Nationals   
    Whatcom County Youth Soccer Association (WCYSA)   3752   Whatcom FC   
    Whidbey Island Youth Soccer Association (WIYSA)   1279       
District 2       23324       
    Eastside Youth Soccer Association (EYSA)   8373   EFC   ISC Arsenal, multi-purpose clubs
    Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association (LWYSA)   7147   Crossfire Premier   Crossfire Select
    Northshore Youth Soccer Association (NYSA)   4978   FC Alliance   Northshore Select
    Snoqualmie Valley Youth Soccer Association (SnVYSA)   2826      Cascade FC
District 3       23152       
    Auburn Youth Soccer Association (AYSA)   1008       Synergy
    Federal Way Soccer Association (FWSA)   1863   FWU Reign/Storm   
    Greater Renton Junior Soccer Association (GRJSA)   2332   GRFC   Multi-purpose clubs
    Highline Soccer Association (HSA)   3408   HPFC   
    Kent Youth Soccer Association (KYSA)   1512   DOS FC   SCFC
    Maple Valley Soccer Association (MpVSA)   1437       MVP
    Mount Rainier Soccer Association (MRSA)   2538       MRFC
    Narrows Youth Soccer Association (NarYSA)   723       
    Tacoma-Pierce County Junior Soccer Association (TPCJSA)   8331   WPFC, Harbor FC   SH Revolution, Norpoint FC
District 4       7590       
    Kitsap Peninsula Youth Soccer Association (KPYSA)   4107   Westsound FC   
    Northwest Sound Youth Soccer Association (NSYSA)   2327       Bainbridge FC
    Olympic Youth Soccer Association (OYSA)   1156       
District 5       10883       
    Columbia Youth Soccer Federation (CYSF)   5473   Columbia Timbers   FC Salmon Creek
    Cowlitz Youth Soccer Association (CYSA)   2495       
    East County Youth Soccer Association (ECYSA)   2915   FC Vancouver   
District 6       19368       
    Columbia Basin Youth Soccer Association (CBYSA)   1356        CB United
    Kittitas Valley Junior Soccer Association (KVJSA)   684       
    Lower Yakima Valley Youth Soccer Association (LYVYSA)   790       
    North Central Youth Soccer Association (NCenYSA)   765       
    Pullman Youth Soccer Association(PYSA)   211       
    Spokane Valley Junior Soccer Association (SpVJSA)   2556       River City, Spokane Soccer Club
    Spokane Youth Sports Association - Soccer (SYSAS)   5772   Spokane Shadow   
    Tri-Cities Youth Soccer Association (T-CYSA)   2236       Three Rivers and yet to be announced second club
    Walla Walla Youth Soccer Association (WWYSA)   206        Blue Mountain Soccer Club
    Wenatchee Valley Youth Soccer Association (WVYSA)   2737        Wenatchee Fire
    Yakima Youth Soccer Association (YYSA)   2055   Sun City   
District 7       8607       
    Deschutes Youth Soccer Association (DYSA)   1694   Black Hills   
    Foothills Youth Soccer Association (FYSA)   1459       
    Grays Harbor Youth Soccer Association (GHYSA)   1405       
    Lewis County Youth Soccer Association (LCYSA)   1962       
    Thurston County Youth Soccer Association (TCYSA)   2087       South Sound FC


Appendix B - Reference materials from WYS Strategic Plan

Primary Goal for 2009-2012:  Develop a Seamless Soccer System Providing Developmentally Correct Playing Opportunities for all Players

Objectives 

?   Developmentally correct playing opportunities for all players (regardless of potential or obsolete administrative barriers), with seamless access to, and movement among, leagues, cups and programs
?   Increased flexibility to provide more user-friendly experience (both players and parents) and reduce conflicts between skill levels/levels of play
?   Expanded opportunities for like vs. like competition with less travel and reduced administrative burden

Overarching Principles

Flexibility:  The system and structures within Washington Youth Soccer should allow maximum flexibility for players and parents to understand and navigate the system, especially to allow easier administration of player movement to an appropriate level of play.

Choice: 
?   Provide playing choices that allow play within a recreational values system as well as different choices that allow play within a competitive values system. 
?   Provide mid-tier choices that allow a middle ground between these two poles. 
?   At recreational and lower levels of select play, players should have options for playing & practicing close to home, as well as for additional training, coaching and play that improves their level of play.

Collaboration:  All administrative levels (state, district, association & club) should recognize that youth soccer is a very complex system with a long history and established culture.  If organizations and individuals don’t work together, we won’t be able to create a seamless system for players and parents.

Sprit of Reinvention [if at one you don’t succeed, try, try again]:  Developing a truly seamless system that provides flexibility and choice will take time, creativity, risk-taking (in program/system design), etc.  Just because a problem has seemed insurmountable in the past shouldn’t stop future proposed solutions.  New ideas should be welcomed; people should not be blamed for failed efforts or false starts.


Organizational Principles

Separate Governance from Management:  Governance functions such as financial management, fundraising, board of directors’ development and evaluation of executive staff are often under-performed by non profit boards, and soccer organizations are no exception.  By separating governance functions and committees from operating functions and committees, such as player development, fields, competition, etc., more refined and better processes can be developed to address all relevant issues.  For example, the state board has proposed eliminating the VPs of recreation, competition, development and administration, with the various functions being replaced by a combination of staff and operating committees, thereby allowing the board members to focus on governance functions, with more resources and energy applied to all functions.

Evaluation, Data Gathering & Feedback:  Washington Youth Soccer is in the midst of reinventing itself, with the process likely to evolve over many years.  Both existing process and changes should be carefully considered and evaluated both prior to and after any changes, with an objective being continuous improvement.  A process for feedback and evaluation, based on sound data, should be built into state, district and association level processes.

Apply a can-do approach to barriers:  Solve problems through solutions that allow flexibility; solve player play and placement issues/problems through a can-do approach instead of limiting choices to old paradigms.  For example, when faced with the issue of 8 and 9 year old players (who should be playing 6 a side), playing up in the PDL’s U-11 at 9 a side, Washington Youth Soccer reinforced using a mini-soccer program open to all 8 and 9 year olds instead of setting down a hard and fast rule to stop the PDL practice.

Principles for Soccer Play

Create Rules based on Policies and Principles, that Allow Situation-Specific Interpretation:  The Washington Youth Soccer Board of Directors is currently developing a revised set of rules that are policy- and principle-based.  The draft new rules documents will be user-friendly, with rules simplified when possible. Policies, Procedures and Rules of the Game will each have separate sections

Apply United States Soccer Federation Best Practices for Coaching Soccer in the United States; allow local organizations to determine how to implement these practices
?   Recognize that Directors of Coaching at many of the state’s top teams are in conflict with these practices
?   Educate parents that travelling away from their home area to find the most competitive team for ages 4 to approximately 13 is inappropriate. Strongly recommend playing in home association for recreational play up to age 13.

Reduce barriers to play across organizational and league boundaries to allow player development options and flexibility: 
?   Develop a system that allows opportunities play across geographical boundaries.
?   To limit games, add training and monitor youth soccer development on a more professional level, player movement flexibility is desired. In order to have players passing between leagues at all levels, however, there needs to be coach accountability and rigorous tracking and recording of player registration and movement.  For example, if the league administrative body says a player must only play two halves in a day, then there needs to be consequences for a coach if they violate the policy, and, each competition needs to be tracked.  Ideally, such tracking (rostering per game by half) could be done electronically, but if such technology is not available, a manual system should be used.

This relates to the higher end players/teams/leagues, but this concept could also be applied to the player pass with consequences for violation.  To achieve this objective, a  player pass concept can be implemented as a developmental tool for U-11 to U-14 select play, coupled with the following conditions to avoid abuse:
o   Limited number of uses
o   Guaranteed half game playing time
o   Registration (ideally online) to record player affiliation, and rostering per game by half
o   Evaluate player pass system to determine extent to which it is working; set up evaluation system in advance
?   Find a way to allow player movement within recreational play, across teams.  One option is to change registration to be at association level


 
Seamless Soccer: Concept Overview, Goals & Principles
Note:  Details for each level on subsequent pages

   Recreational/Local   Flexibility  between recreational & select  to allow movement both ways    Select/Developmental   ?   Seamless & more flexible coordination between select and premier
?   Emphasis on providing player-centric placement & coaching   Premier/Regional
               
Goals   Fun, exercise, teamwork, sportsmanship, listening, basic soccer skills, self-discipline, friendships      All recreational goals+ focus on skill development, preparing for next level of play.  But – freedom to play other sports as well      All select goals, + developing players to their fullest potential through coaching, individual feedback, and developing passion for the game.
Travel   Low.  Objective = practice and play close to home      Moderate; Balance of practice & play near home & need for more competition      Higher; Statewide play and more frequent competition beyond local
Competitive Emphasis   See goals above; not a competitive emphasis      While a competitive environment, primary emphasis is on skill development and improvement      o   Team success (i.e. winning) is a factor. 
o   Player development should be at the foundation of the premier mission at all ages.
Flexibility   Yes – see details of plan      Yes – see details of plan      Limited
Age factors   ?   Need new guidelines for age appropriate practice & play for U-7
?   Need better programs, greater emphasis on recreational options      ?   U-11 to U-13 = transitional period; players explore higher levels of play; accepted into these programs, not cut, encouraged to participate in other sports and activities.
?   Focus on creating dynamic, challenging, fun environment; establish sound technical and tactical habits.
?   U-14 Players can decide to remain with premier club, move to select or return to the recreational level       ?   U-11 to U-13 currently places too much emphasis on winning; needs to be more fun.
?   Goal = insure that rec. goals such as sportsmanship & friendship are equally important esp. for U-11 to U-13. 
Coaching design & objectives   ?   Create age-appropriate environment
?   Promote fun, enjoyment
?   Positive role model
?   Playing is more important than winning      ?   Create age-appropriate environment
?   All recreational objectives + Prepare kids for next level of play
?   A goal is to reduce poaching/recruitment       ?   All select objectives + following:
?   A goal is to reduce poaching/recruitment
?   Help establish coaching standards and evaluation criteria (see following pages)
Coaching Management   ?   Set standards based on Washington Youth Soccer certificate classes
?   Train coaches re: non competitive goals; coaches don't "own" players;
?   Allow players to move to higher levels based on ability      Professional development & performance standards for both volunteer and paid coaches


      Rigorous coaching standards (see following pages)
 
Seamless Soccer:  Recreational Play (Proposed new name:  Local)
Note:  As per overview on previous page, the recreational system below is envisioned to connect to the select system (on the right side) as shown below, in a continuous, seamless way.

   Recreational/Local Play   Flexibility  between recreational & select  to allow movement both ways
Goals   ?   Fun
?   Exercise
?   Teamwork
?   Listening to & working with a coach
?   Basic Soccer Skills
?   Self-discipline;
?   Sportsmanship
?   Socializing and friendships   
Travel   Low:  Objective = Practice, train & play close to home   
Number of games   Low-Moderate; with flexibility   
Cost   Low   
Parent education, expectation & family impact   ?   What is expected of parents and what do they expect at recreational level?
?   Family impact -- How are families affected by children playing rec soccer? Expectations and mitigations?   
Competition   ?   Reduce emphasis on competition and teams at ages 10 and under.
?   Principle = Establish/shift toward players and parents seeing value in, and having pride in their club and association to a larger extent, instead of so much emphasis and pride in the team.   
Flexibility & Choice factors   ?   Implement player pass concept as a developmental tool for U-11 to U-14, coupled with guaranteed half game playing time to avoid abuse.     
Age factors   ?   USSF guidelines for age appropriate practice & play
?   More & better programs, greater emphasis on recreational options such as free and/or low-cost, fun, flexible training modules for all rec. players, clubs and coaches
?   Statewide soccer development program in partnership with primary schools and local coaches, to bring free and low-cost soccer options to more interested players and families   
   U-7   U-8 to U-10   U-11 to U-13   U-14 to U-19   
Coaching Design & Objectives   ?   Age appropriate, fun environment (different from U-8 to U-10)
?   De-emphasize “teams,”  playing more important than winning
?   Small sided play, selected randomly, weekly
?   Take pressure out of playing environment
?   Positive Role Model   ?   Age appropriate environment
?   Age appropriate technique & tactics
?   Promote enjoyment of game
   ?   Create an age appropriate environment
?   Development of age appropriate technique & tactic – coaches handbook
?   Promote enjoyment of game   ?   Needs more work
?   Co-ed teams
?   Reduction in roster to support playing time?   
Volunteer Coaching Management   ?   Set standards based on Washington Youth Soccer certificate classes
?   Provide mentoring for parent coaches
?   Train coaches on philosophy of recreational soccer; non competitive goals
?   Create understanding that coaches don't "own" players;
?   De-focus winning or team centric outlook
?   Get coaches to release players to the game; give up control as a coach; allow players to move to higher level teams/leagues based on their ability if that's right for them   
Paid professional coaches   N/A
   


Seamless Soccer:  Select Play (Proposed new name:  Developmental)
Note:  As per overview page, the select system below is envisioned to connect to the recreational system (on the left side) and premier system (on the right side) as shown below, in a continuous, seamless way.
   Flexibility  between recreational & select  to allow movement both ways   Select/Developmental Play   Coordination required between select and premier to address skill level and placement
Goals      All recreational goals (Fun, Exercise, Teamwork, Listening to & working with a coach, Self-discipline; Sportsmanship, Socializing and friendships) + focus on skill development, preparing for next level of play.     
Travel      Higher; Statewide play and more frequent competition beyond local   
Number of games      Moderate   
Cost      Strive to keep costs down   
Parent education, expectation & family impact      ?   What is expected of parents and what do they expect at select level?
?   Family impact -- How are families affected by children playing soccer at select level? Expectations and mitigations?   
Competitive Emphasis      While a competitive environment, primary emphasis is on skill development and improvement. Freedom to play other sports as well   
Flexibility & Choice factors      ?   Implement player pass concept as a developmental tool for U-11 to U-14, coupled with guaranteed half game playing time to avoid abuse.     
Age factors,
Coaching Design & Objectives      U-11 to U-13   U-14 to U-19   
      ?   A goal is to reduce poaching/recruitment    
      ?   Create an age appropriate environment
?   Develop age appropriate technique & tactic; coaches handbook
?   Prepare kids for next level of play
?   Promote enjoyment of game   ?   Create an age appropriate environment
?   Development of age appropriate technique & tactic – coaches handbook
?   Promote enjoyment of game   
Volunteer Coaching Management      ?   Set standards based on Washington Youth Soccer certificate classes
?   Provide mentoring for parent coaches
?   Provide feedback to coaches based on parent and player evaluations
?   Create understanding that coaches don't "own" players; De-focus winning or team centric outlook
?   Get coaches to release players to the game; give up control as a coach; allow players to move to higher level teams/leagues based on their ability if that's right for them   
Paid professional coaching Management      ?   Professional development & performance standards
?   Provide feedback to coaches based on parent and player evaluations
?   Create understanding that coaches don't "own" players; De-focus winning or team centric outlook
?   Get coaches to release players to the game; give up control as a coach; allow players to move to higher level teams/leagues based on their ability if that's right for them   

 
Seamless Soccer:  Premier Play (proposed new name:  Regional)
Note:  As per overview page, the premier system below is envisioned to connect to the select system (on the left side) as shown below, in a continuous, seamless way.

   Coordination required between select and premier to address skill level and placement   Premier/Regional Play
Goals      ?   All recreational & select goals (Fun, Exercise, Teamwork, Listening to & working with a coach, Self-discipline; Sportsmanship, Socializing and friendships)
?   Focus on skill development
?   Insure that rec. goals such as sportsmanship & friendship are equally important esp. for U-11 to U-13. 
?   Developing players to fullest potential through coaching & individual player feedback
?   Developing  a passion for the game
Travel      Moderate-High, although objective is to practice & train close to home
Number of games      High
Cost      Moderate to high
Parent education, expectation & family impact      ?   What is expected of parents and what do they expect at premier?
?   Family impact -- How are families affected by children playing soccer at premier level? Expectations and mitigations?
Competition      What is the approach to & impact of premier competition? How important? How should it be handled or addressed by coaches?
Flexibility & Choice factors      ?   Implement player pass concept as a developmental tool for U-11 to U-14, coupled with guaranteed half game playing time to avoid abuse. 
Age factors,
Coaching Design & Objectives      U-11 to U-13   U-14 to U-19
      ?   Create an age appropriate environment
?   Develop age appropriate technique & tactic; coaches handbook
?   Prepare kids for next level of play
?   Promote enjoyment of game
?   A goal is to reduce poaching/recruitment
      ?   Set standards based on Washington Youth Soccer certificate classes
?   Train coaches on philosophy of less competitive goals
?   Create understanding that coaches don't "own" players; De-focus winning or team centric outlook
?   Get coaches to release players to the game; give up control as a coach; allow players to move to higher level teams/leagues based on their ability if that's right for them
?   U-11 to U-13 currently places too much emphasis on winning; needs to be more fun & player development   ?   Integration of psychological & physical aspects of the game
Volunteer Coaching Management      ?   Specific performance standards including feedback to coaches based on parent and player evaluations
?   Provide mentoring for parent coaches
?   Board of directors and ED with capabilities to govern and manage the system
?   Establish best practice as to # of hours coaching each player and team
?   Establish best practice in communication with board, management, parents and players
?   Minimum level of coordination and co-coaching with select coaches/teams
Paid professional coaching Management      ?   Specific performance standards (management by objective)
?   360-degree performance eval’s + feedback for coaching mgrs & coaches; Compensation tied to performance (incl. license level, experience, performance as a coach – i.e. feedback from players, parents, administrators and DOCs; not about winning); minimum hours professional dev’t annually
?   Board of directors and ED with capabilities to govern and manage the system
?   Establish best practice as to # of hours coaching each player and team
?   Establish best practice in communication with board, mgt, parents and players

Strategic Questions/Issues:

?   Coaching oversight & evaluation system needs to be designed
?   Board of directors and ED at District, Association and club levels all require the capabilities to govern and manage the system
?   Can consequences be implemented for too much poaching/recruiting?


 
 

Goal 2:  Restructure Leagues, Districts and Associations to Streamline Program Delivery and Communication


Strategy 2A:  Redesign League and Cup Play into four levels (from the current 5-6)
Note that levels of play defined below will likely be renamed to clarify expectations for players and parents.  Current name is shown first, followed by proposed new name, as per USSF guidelines.  Naming process TBD)

1.  Recreational/Local (Includes club and association leagues)
2.  Select/Developmental (Includes some District, Inter-Association and State leagues.  Corresponds roughly to lower levels of current select play)
3.  Select/Advanced Developmental (Includes some District, Inter-Association and State leagues.  Corresponds roughly to upper levels of current select play)
4.  Premier/Regional (i.e. Current premier and PDL levels) 

League play is independent of being tied to play in any particular Cup

Strategy 2B:  Establish Standards to Evaluate Player Skill Level at the club level, and allow placement in appropriate league.  Factors to be included in establishing such a standard include an individual’s:

?   Technical skill
?   Physical skill
?   Tactical skill
?   Psychological skill

In addition, a player’s commitment and the length of the season need to be considered, as do ties to Cups and weather and field considerations

Establish expectations at each level of play.  Explain expectations to parents.

Strategy 2C:  Change Soccer Calendar for league play so that all leagues have better defined, and more compatible starting and ending dates, and culminate in a season ending tournament.

Recreational/Local Leagues (Includes club and association leagues) 
?   8 week season is ideal, with mid-week games, possibility of 1-2 doubleheader weekends
?   President’s Cup is culminating tournament
?   Both league play and President’s Cup are completed by Thanksgiving (possibility of August start to accomplish)
?   Expectations regarding when and how teams are formed, and play ends, needs to be clarified and conveyed

Possible Issue:  Recreational team definition has loopholes such as when players carpool, friends are invited, or teams have insufficient numbers of players.

Select/ Developmental Leagues (Currently within Select Play)
?   10 game season (optional 12 games to be determined at local level?)
?   Commissioner’s Cup is culminating tournament
?   League play completed by Thanksgiving
?   Length of season, start date and girls season TBD
?   State mandated tryout dates tied to PDL need to be changed/resolved (Mid-week games, possibility of doubleheader weekends to accomplish?)
?   Commissioner’s Cup completed by mid-December
?   No seeding for Commissioners Cup
?   Tie players to teams

Select/Advanced Developmental Leagues (Currently within Select Play)

?   Emphasis on Ages 13-17
?   Challenge Cup is culminating tournament; but very small
?   Challenge Cup goal - to be completed by mid-December; possibility that last rounds may fall in January
?   Girls Challenge Cup in spring
?   Tryout date TBD – May 15 may not be ideal
?   Optional tournaments offered locally in January to May allow
o   Player-focused time; optional academy-style training
o   Eastern Washington spring Leagues

Issue:  Let new state league needs to be designed

Premier/Regional Leagues (PDL)
?   Champions League in fall
?   Championship Cup is culminating tournament, but for top 12 teams only (not for B teams)
?   Washington Youth Soccer purchases travel packages to allow scheduling flexibility for teams that advance beyond Washington State
?   Girls 15 and above play in spring, beginning in March, with preliminary rounds in early May

Remaining issues:
?   How to tier tryout dates so premier tryouts can be first?
?   How to design premier league structure?
?   How would current district leagues be administered once Districts are de-emphasized (see 2F below)

Strategy 2D:  Create and provide a choice of offerings at the local level that de-emphasize games and emphasize academy/jamboree style training at young ages.
?   Various play and training options, especially for ages 8-13
?   Allows movement of players to play with other coaches and players
?   Allow teams to form for short periods of time (i.e. up to 8 weeks)
?   Rotate/redistribute players/teams at ages 4-12; randomize
?   Educates parents regarding the greater importance of player and youth development compared to team formation and winning
?   Strongly recommend that all associations move toward such offerings at young ages.

Strategy 2E:  Foster local decision making as to how to achieve seamless soccer objectives, with support by Washington Youth Soccer

Washington Youth Soccer will work to build the capacity of associations to implement a seamless system to provide developmentally correct playing opportunities for all players with seamless access to, and movement among, leagues, cups and programs. 
?   Assist in reducing/eliminating administrative barriers,
?   Assist in building capacity to resolve local league issues
?   Assist in building capacity for associations to resolve conflicts locally
?   Provisions for consideration of uniqueness of rural and eastern Washington issues
?   Washington Youth Soccer provides technical assistance to associations to strengthen their governance and management systems, and align with state

Strategy 2F:  Voluntarily Consolidate Districts and Associations to Improve communication between local and state bodies, reduce duplication of efforts, and allow better focus on capacity building at local level

Objective:  Three-year emphasis on reducing number of Associations to a number at which they could coordinate directly with Washington Youth Soccer, and thereby eliminate the need for Districts.  While a standard of one association per every 5,000 to 6,500 players may be ideal (i.e. approximately 20 associations), a level of approximately 30 associations may be a more practically achievable target, especially considering the rural nature of most of the state.

Strategy 2D1:  Pilot Project(s): Work with District 5 (and possibly a second District) to assist in a model consolidation of associations and clubs, thereby demonstrating the potential gains to be realized.

Strategy 2D2:  Identify natural partners:  By coordinating closely with District Commissioners, natural partners are already being identified, and additional such partners could be found.  In these cases, adjacent associations may have synergies in culture, philosophy and programs, making such consolidations possible.

Strategy 2D3:  Enforce a size limitation on associations.  Currently, there are 6 associations with under 1,000 members, of which 2 have under 250 members.  While these associations generally operate in rural parts of the state, several could become programs of larger associations operating in a nearby region.

Strategy 2G:  Create a Soccer Oversight Committee to work with the management staff to oversee the Seamless Soccer system to benefit all levels of play.

Purpose of committee:

?   Develop and implement the seamless soccer plan
?   Work with senior staff to administer and manage organizational resources and programs to provide support for all levels of play and allow growth of each
?   Resolve issues and conflicts between level of play interests


Composition:

?   21 or more members, including:
o   Washington Youth Soccer Executive Director, Director of Coaching, and Director of Member Services and Communications
o   7 District Commissioners
o   14 or more additional members from across the state
?   Some administrative leaders
?   Some Directors of Coaching or their designees
?   Have a process for self-nomination of at-large members
?   Regional representation to foster involvement from across state, and avoid inordinate influence from any single organization.
o   Two members of the Washington Youth Soccer Board of Directors will sit as ex-officio chairs of the committee to serve as a liaison to the Board, as required by bylaws.
?   Members will be selected for their skills in collaboration and problem solving
?   The Board of Directors will establish procedures for membership selection and renewal, subject to the bylaws and operating procedures of the organization.


Structure:  Divided into 3 subcommittees:

?   Recreational
?   Select
?   Premier


Meetings

?   Retreat culture (problem solving)
?   Meets quarterly, possibly more frequently initially to set up systems.
?   Full-day or nearly full-day meetings as follows:
o   Portion in subcommittee (Rec, select, premier)
o   Portion in full committee to resolve system-wide and inter-level issues
?   Washington Youth Soccer Director of Coaching, Director of Member Services, and Executive Director will serve as facilitators.
?   Decision – making will be on a majority vote basis after discussion to arrive at consensus.
?   Recommendations of actions developed by the Committee
o   Given to the Executive Director for implementation.
o   Reported to the Board of Directors
o   Subject to organization’s budget, bylaws and operating procedures

Logged
Throw couple o CPs in the River

Brat Jr

  • No Batman.....this is the BratMobile
  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +4043/-173
  • Posts: 17246
  • GO MRFC COSMOS!
  • Joined 01/09/2005
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 02:30:09 PM »

THANKS 2 Cents!! Now everyone can read it.
BTW how did you do it? lol
Logged
YAY! Soccer for another year!!

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 04:00:41 PM »

Thank you for posting this.   It seems to be a fuller version of what I saw a month or so ago.
+1 to 2Cents.
Logged

Blue Chip

  • WPS-Ranking Expert
  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +169/-13
  • Posts: 971
  • Joined 09/10/2005
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 04:30:52 PM »

Gary White Rocks 8)
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 04:49:41 PM »

It looks like there are several issues that are contentious in this proposal.

The preample makes it clear where this proposal is coming from, with the blame to the WSYSA and exclpatory words for the PDL.

Some of the issues that are present:
Double Representation - Certain clubs will granted extra representation with the organs of the state under this proposal.   Not sure if this is a real issue or not, as in theory such representation is subject to renewal and change among the members of the RCL.

Employees having control over the Regional Club League Sub-Committee -  This is an issue, as the Five DoCs will essentially have control over the RCL-SC.  The issue of employees running the organization is always a difficult one, and troubling.  It may indirect enough to avoid the scrutiny of the IRS, but it is normally a poor practice to have such a situation.

Requirement that Associations change their bylaws, as neccessary, to accomodate said league/system.  Others find this more troubling than I do personally.   Changes can be made to accomodate progress.  There are no longer laws on the books to require hitching posts outside of every storefront, the automobile did away the need.     On the other hand, this top down philosophy is troubling on a philosophical level, and it is unclear that such an attitude is warranted.  

Giving control over the entire state league system to the PDL is a real issue.  And that is what this proposal does by making the RCL SC so powerful and limiting the membership to the 8 PDL folks and 3 State folks.
  Then there is the caste system that is enshrined by this proposal.   The RCL SC decides who let in adn who to get rid of, on their own.  Non-RCL/PDL clubs are second class (or lower) citizens, not entitled to the special privilage of actually having representation on the committee that controls their leagues.   Perhaps we should change the spelling of DoC to DUKE?  The non-pdl/RCL folks can be called peons.     (Will go on about this theme latter).

The proposal also continues to mandate reuiremetns on clubs and associations for participation into the RCL that look nice, but lack any substantiation.    AND ARE, IN PART, CONTRADICTORY.
iF WE GO DOWN TO 20 ASSOCIATIONS, AND WE HAVE 20-24 rcl/pdl TEAMS, HOW CAN YOU REQUIRE THAT YOUR "ACADEMY/TRAINING PROGRAM" HAVE MEMBERS FROM OTHER ASSOCIATIONS?  Perhaps I misread that or it was typo?
Further, having a DoC with a certain liscense is nice, having a paid DoC is nice, having this that and the other thing is nice, having all the blls and whistles are nice.   But the real issue is the quality of the players on the field and the kids ability to play the game.   That is what determines - or rather used to determine and should still determine - where a team should be placed.  Nothing in the the proposal or the current state bylaws restricts any club or association from laying out its own requirements for DoCs, paid coaches, gilt on the benches, limos for club Presidents, 401(k)s for DoCs, or any of the rest of thsoe things that the PDL is so enamormed of.   Why require them of others?   Why not have the criteria to be strictly the continueing quality of the players?

Logged

lester

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +162/-59
  • Posts: 722
  • Joined 14/12/2005
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 05:07:57 PM »

I think a newer version is being shown to the association presidents for comment.
Its the third draft dated 12/31/09.   
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 05:15:55 PM »

DISCRIMINATION -

One could argue that this proposal discrimates, due to the following:

1)  Geography, etc - Emphasis and requirements regarding size.   While we all know that the bigger the playing pool, the more likely the organization is to produce higher caliber talent on a consistent basis, this is not always the case.  Smaller outfits have been able to demonstrate success consistently without the full panoply required by the proposal, such things that they have been too small to offer.  
So while the proposal discriminates against those who live in less population dense areas, it also discriminates against those who are not part of a big club, period.

2)  Hispanics -  As this proposal serves to restrict the ability of Eastern Washington to compete in the highest levels of state play, it also restricts the ability of Hispanics to participate, given the heavy Hispanic population in Eastern Washington.    Obviously, this is not the intent of the state (PDL LC is a different matter) but an unitended consequence of appeasing the PDL in this proposal.   The finnancial costs of meeting the PDL driven requirements for inclusion into the RCL exclude a significant portion of society as it is, and this is felt disproportionately among the Hispanic community, which is non-affluent.

3)  Per Capita Income - The RCL requirements obviously require more finnancial resources.  So while the per capita income in areas like King County enables the families to more easily support higher soccer costs,   areas that have significantly lower per capita and median incomes feel the impact of paying those costs to a much greater degree.   This serves to drive away potential soccer families.

Now I personally do not believe that the state intented to be discriminatory at all in this proposal.  But we all understand that some in the PDL have such an agenda.  It is difficult to justify the fees and the salaries when your team gets beat by a bunch of "asparagus pickers" coached by a volunteer without a B liscense, a team that has never played under lights or on field turf before, that does not have an academy to train it, which does not even have warm ups because they cannot afford them.    Parents (customers) start to ask difiicult questions.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 05:27:24 PM »

Complexity -

While this proposal addresses more than just the reintegration of the PDL, it still seems unneccessarily complex.   Even given the state desire to get rid of Districts - which serve a valueable purpose in more diffuse population areas - bringing all the district leagues under state management (which is very likely what would end up happening) is creating a major headache and expense for the state.   That is just one example.

On the other hand, by allowing associations to authorise inter-association leagues on their own, the possibility exists for some associations/clubs to work at cross purposes to the state.   That alone should be enough to mitigate anyone's idea that this document is a power grab by the state.   (Personally, it seems more like a capitulation to the Lords of the PDL). 



CAPs -  While the idea of using CAPs and they way they conducted has achieved a general level of acceptance in this state, it is a complex system and subject to being gamed. 

Further, CAPs are a more accurate reflection of the past preformance of a team than future preformance.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 06:05:32 PM »

OK, Just for the Shock Value -

Things that I like about the state proposal -

1)  Reintegration of all clubs into the state.   

2)  The creation of two essentially select leagues, instead of one divided into districts.  While the devil is always in the details, I can see this working out very well.  Probably would not affect Eastern Washington all that well, but one can envision a North League, A South League, An Eastern League, and then two Puget Sound area leagues, A and B.  Heck, the Puget Sound leagues could be split into North and South Divisions themselves.   Then you can have the top two teams from each league go into the Commissioner's Cup, a ten team tournament that could be done with quickly instead of all winter long.

3)   The idea of revamping the State Cups and trying to get some of them done before Christmas.

4)  The state is trying to do something, rather get steamrolled by a problem unexpectedly.
Logged

metz123

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +207/-49
  • Posts: 564
  • Joined 29/04/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 07:22:05 PM »


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 07:36:28 PM »

Metz, the problem then becomes attempts to form an oligarchy and undertake a restraint of free trade, ala the PDL. 


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.
Logged

Firedog

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +125/-91
  • Posts: 618
  • Joined 12/11/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 07:50:17 PM »


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.
There is a more current version that is a little easier to follow but, it can be cut and paste to an email (from pdf file), but not posted here.  Anyway, the Regional Subcommittee(made up of Regional Club elected reps) is responsible for league bracketing and scheduling which is to be reviewed by the Oversight Committee and the Governing Board becoming involved only to resolve conflicts.  So, as I read it, the clubs will be administering the league.  The proposal, while it does recommend 24 - 32 teams participate in Championship Cup, continues to provide for a Challenge and Commissioner's Cup.  I would think based on your recent comments about Cup slumming, you would be happy to see some guidance pushing/requiring top teams to play in the Championship Cup.
Logged

Sususudio

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +36/-87
  • Posts: 155
  • Joined 11/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 07:50:42 PM »

Metz, the problem then becomes attempts to form an oligarchy and undertake a restraint of free trade, ala the PDL. 


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.

Metz,

The State has always organized the leagues for years and years. The old LPT system was designed and administered by them.  Then came the PDL run by the Club DOC's (or lets say a very small cartel) aka the "paid employees" behind puppet club presidents (aka CP) who have taken some potentially good ideas and completely ruined them to serve their own self interests. If their system was transparent or even was a subjective system that any reasonable person could understand and they governed themselves with accounatbility we wouldn't be here today.  This proposal is an attenmpt to compromise with the DOCs because they do have leverage.  But IMO its not done yet. Its going under State control take it or leave it.  But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State and the Associations.  I dont think Districts are really necessary.  The Clubs the DOC and the CPs are too conflicted.  They should have a vehicle to voice their opinions but should not have the veto.


Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »

Ideas -
1)  Any RCL team has to play in the Championship Cup. 
2)  RCL has 4 divisions of 6 teams each, play a 10 game schedule.
3) Automatic Promotion and relegation of the bottom and top team each year, others to be decided by the Execuative.
4)  Since the PDL types love spending money and hiring people all the time, let's hire someone to run the RCL, someone from out of state, make it their full time job.   What's Hannan doing nowadays? 
5)  Form a state league/RCL committee.  Each club gets one vote for each team it has in the state leagues of Premier or RCL status that year.
6)  Have 4-7 state premier divisions below the RCL of 6 teams each. 
7)  Associations designate which teams and programs get their slots into the RCL.
8)  Teams would be allowed into the RCL leagues based on State Cup preformance.   A team that is a finalist in the Championship Cup gets put into the 1st division automatically, and the number 5 placed team gets relegated.   A team that is a semifinalist in the Champ Cup gets put into the RCL 2nd division, and a team that reaches the round of 8 gets put into the 3rd division.   
9) Keep the term RCL just to make the Piddlers feel special.
10) Automatic promotion of the top two teams from the top premier division (really the Fifth Division) into the 4th division of the RCL each year.  Relegation of the bottom two teams out of the 4th RCL division and into premier play each year.
11)   Clubs recieve an RCL bonus point for each player on their A team roster that was a member of their club the previous year.   This is a reward for developing players. 
12) No restrictions on clubs (other than state background checks) in terms of allowing them to hire as many DoCs as they want, or requiring them as high a license as the club demands or anything of that sort.  Clubs will even be allowed to mandate that all their coaches have English accents, if they so choose.
13)  No restrictions on how much any club can charge.
14)   RCL will start at U-13, and the parent association will submit the list of teams coming from their associations.   Placement of teams in RCL and state league will be determined by cap score at that time.
15)  The league administrator, the Executive,  will have the ability to arbitrarily move a team to a lower division based on cap score, even if not automatically relegated.
16)  Player passes can be used to play up a level, not down.  Records must be kept, and a system to prevent abuses must be developed.  No player passes in Cup matches.
Logged

vusa92blue

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +62/-94
  • Posts: 446
  • Joined 19/03/2006
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Odds and Sets Soccer Cards
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 01:10:12 AM »

"But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State..."

Read the Bylaws of Washington Youth Soccer.  Over-site of any committee formed by the Board of Directors, including sub-committees of the Over-Site Committee, like the RCL committee, does have final over-site by the Board of Directors of Washington Youth Soccer.  Please note that the Over-Site committee itself has first over-site of one of it's own sub-committees 

It should also be noted that the Over-Site committee has been tasked to populate it's other sub-committees, like the 'Local' (Select) and 'Developmental' (Recreational) sub-committees.  Ask you District Commissioners how that task is being handled and how Your team and Clubs will be heard at those levels.  Too much noise concerning this issue and the others, as per usual, are being forgotten.  Again, ask your District representation why this is.
Logged

Sususudio

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +36/-87
  • Posts: 155
  • Joined 11/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2010, 01:33:24 AM »

"But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State..."

Read the Bylaws of Washington Youth Soccer.  Over-site of any committee formed by the Board of Directors, including sub-committees of the Over-Site Committee, like the RCL committee, does have final over-site by the Board of Directors of Washington Youth Soccer.  Please note that the Over-Site committee itself has first over-site of one of it's own sub-committees 

It should also be noted that the Over-Site committee has been tasked to populate it's other sub-committees, like the 'Local' (Select) and 'Developmental' (Recreational) sub-committees.  Ask you District Commissioners how that task is being handled and how Your team and Clubs will be heard at those levels.  Too much noise concerning this issue and the others, as per usual, are being forgotten.  Again, ask your District representation why this is.

Fine but their is no detail on who, what or how the oversight committee is charged.  The State's record on oversight is spotty at best.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2010, 01:35:46 AM »


Bluey,

There is a difference between oversite and running the committee.  In theory, the state has a degree of oversite over everything in the state, and the District that chartered the PDL has oversite of the PDL.   We have seen how well that has worked out.  With this proposal giving the PDL everything including the kitchen sink,  it makes one doubt how willing or effective the state oversite will be.   This is not meant to be inflammatory, and is in no sense any personal attack.   It is a valid concern by many.    And in terms of the District Commissioners, with the phase out of the Districts, where this level of protection for the non-piddlers be?  But that is really a seperate issue from the proposed re-integration.

Another thing is that a central issue of concern to the PDL leadership is not addressed at all in this document.   That is the Sounders Academy/ODP system.  Under the old Schumacher system, the big clubs had effective control of the system and used it shamelessly to aid their recruiting efforts.   With the likely demise of the Academies outside of (and due to) the Sounders, and the new, more open RTC system, there exists a real problem that the Big Clubs want to innoculate themselves from.

"But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State..."

Read the Bylaws of Washington Youth Soccer.  Over-site of any committee formed by the Board of Directors, including sub-committees of the Over-Site Committee, like the RCL committee, does have final over-site by the Board of Directors of Washington Youth Soccer.  Please note that the Over-Site committee itself has first over-site of one of it's own sub-committees 

It should also be noted that the Over-Site committee has been tasked to populate it's other sub-committees, like the 'Local' (Select) and 'Developmental' (Recreational) sub-committees.  Ask you District Commissioners how that task is being handled and how Your team and Clubs will be heard at those levels.  Too much noise concerning this issue and the others, as per usual, are being forgotten.  Again, ask your District representation why this is.
Logged

metz123

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +207/-49
  • Posts: 564
  • Joined 29/04/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2010, 12:23:27 PM »

Metz, the problem then becomes attempts to form an oligarchy and undertake a restraint of free trade, ala the PDL. 


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.

Metz,

The State has always organized the leagues for years and years. The old LPT system was designed and administered by them.  Then came the PDL run by the Club DOC's (or lets say a very small cartel) aka the "paid employees" behind puppet club presidents (aka CP) who have taken some potentially good ideas and completely ruined them to serve their own self interests. If their system was transparent or even was a subjective system that any reasonable person could understand and they governed themselves with accounatbility we wouldn't be here today.  This proposal is an attenmpt to compromise with the DOCs because they do have leverage.  But IMO its not done yet. Its going under State control take it or leave it.  But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State and the Associations.  I dont think Districts are really necessary.  The Clubs the DOC and the CPs are too conflicted.  They should have a vehicle to voice their opinions but should not have the veto.


I'm quite aware of the state running the leagues for years and years. They did such a bang up job at organizing and listening to their core customers that a group felt the need to break away and form their own league. This league was not only successful, it prospered, adding new teams and ages over time. The leagues the state continued to run have atrophied into a 2nd tier league. The numbers of games have continued to drop as has the service, while fees have gone up. Yes, the state really responded to this breakaway group by seeking to improve their offerings, NOT.

Now, I'm no huge fan of the PDL. If I was running a club I doubt I'd ever strive to become a PDL club. I agree that the processes that drive this league are arbitrary and depend more on who you know than how good your team and club are. It's designed to perpetuate the thought that only ex pro players are qualified to teach youth soccer and the going rate for this expertise is over 1k per kid per year. I don't agree with any of that.

That being said, I see no need to "bring the PDL back into the state". I believe the PDL offers certain choice to a percentage of the populace. I believe that other leagues should be given the opportunity to rise up to offer even more alternatives. I don't believe that the politic body known as "the state" is qualified or capable of offering one league (or even one system) to rule them all. I think the state should stick to providing state cups that determine state champions at various levels. These cups should be open to any and all teams provided they meet the qualifications of each cup ( qualification should not be playing in a WSYSA run league). The state should concentrate on providing services that are required at a state level (education, safety, discipline, yearly calendars, administration, etc). Running leagues or even being involved in the process that sets up leagues should not be in their domain.

Like bodies of players and individuals should be able to get together and form their own leagues based on their own rules. Don't agree with the PDL and their philosophies (as I don't)? Get together and form your own league. Tired of the superstar clubs "stealing" talent away? Form an independent super team across all of your area and kick their butt at state. Geographical issues due to a less dense population area? Think outside the box. Run tournaments every 2-3 weekends instead of asking everyone to travel each weekend. Solve your own problems.

This is the age of the internet, where everyone is connected to everyone else. Solve your own problems instead of tilting at windmills (the state) and keep the large monolithic entity out of the management of day to day activities.

The state has shown that they aren't capable of pulling off an A to Z soccer experience for our kids. Heck, they can't even manage the mostly minor leagues they currently offer.
Logged

Sususudio

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +36/-87
  • Posts: 155
  • Joined 11/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2010, 03:25:26 PM »

Metz, the problem then becomes attempts to form an oligarchy and undertake a restraint of free trade, ala the PDL. 


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.

Metz,

The State has always organized the leagues for years and years. The old LPT system was designed and administered by them.  Then came the PDL run by the Club DOC's (or lets say a very small cartel) aka the "paid employees" behind puppet club presidents (aka CP) who have taken some potentially good ideas and completely ruined them to serve their own self interests. If their system was transparent or even was a subjective system that any reasonable person could understand and they governed themselves with accounatbility we wouldn't be here today.  This proposal is an attenmpt to compromise with the DOCs because they do have leverage.  But IMO its not done yet. Its going under State control take it or leave it.  But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State and the Associations.  I dont think Districts are really necessary.  The Clubs the DOC and the CPs are too conflicted.  They should have a vehicle to voice their opinions but should not have the veto.


I'm quite aware of the state running the leagues for years and years. They did such a bang up job at organizing and listening to their core customers that a group felt the need to break away and form their own league. This league was not only successful, it prospered, adding new teams and ages over time. The leagues the state continued to run have atrophied into a 2nd tier league. The numbers of games have continued to drop as has the service, while fees have gone up. Yes, the state really responded to this breakaway group by seeking to improve their offerings, NOT.

Now, I'm no huge fan of the PDL. If I was running a club I doubt I'd ever strive to become a PDL club. I agree that the processes that drive this league are arbitrary and depend more on who you know than how good your team and club are. It's designed to perpetuate the thought that only ex pro players are qualified to teach youth soccer and the going rate for this expertise is over 1k per kid per year. I don't agree with any of that.

That being said, I see no need to "bring the PDL back into the state". I believe the PDL offers certain choice to a percentage of the populace. I believe that other leagues should be given the opportunity to rise up to offer even more alternatives. I don't believe that the politic body known as "the state" is qualified or capable of offering one league (or even one system) to rule them all. I think the state should stick to providing state cups that determine state champions at various levels. These cups should be open to any and all teams provided they meet the qualifications of each cup ( qualification should not be playing in a WSYSA run league). The state should concentrate on providing services that are required at a state level (education, safety, discipline, yearly calendars, administration, etc). Running leagues or even being involved in the process that sets up leagues should not be in their domain.

Like bodies of players and individuals should be able to get together and form their own leagues based on their own rules. Don't agree with the PDL and their philosophies (as I don't)? Get together and form your own league. Tired of the superstar clubs "stealing" talent away? Form an independent super team across all of your area and kick their butt at state. Geographical issues due to a less dense population area? Think outside the box. Run tournaments every 2-3 weekends instead of asking everyone to travel each weekend. Solve your own problems.

This is the age of the internet, where everyone is connected to everyone else. Solve your own problems instead of tilting at windmills (the state) and keep the large monolithic entity out of the management of day to day activities.

The state has shown that they aren't capable of pulling off an A to Z soccer experience for our kids. Heck, they can't even manage the mostly minor leagues they currently offer.


I think what you are suggesting is a bit like the wild west.  Not sure if I am comfortable with that.  However, the case that any individual or group should be allowed to form their own leagues logically should not restrict the state from doing so either.  This is what they are doing.  No one is forcing the PDL to join.  They can go US Club Soccer.  They just won't be able to play in the State Cup or benefit from what the State does offers through membership.  So far the PDL is not willing to do that.  That's why its negotiation. All you are really talking about is Crossfire.  Perhaps they should just go.  That would be interesting.
Logged

tripleplay

  • WPS-Legend
  • *****
  • Karma: +270/-581
  • Posts: 2125
  • Joined 17/02/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2010, 07:45:55 PM »

Metz, the problem then becomes attempts to form an oligarchy and undertake a restraint of free trade, ala the PDL. 


The more I read this proposal the more I agree with 3play. Get the state out of the organization of leagues and let the free market determine. There's way too many calendars and rules and job protection and holes and TBD's in this proposal. After watching the state totally screw the pooch on the current GHS league I fear what sort of schedules they would provide and what sort of costs they would charge if they ran everything from A-Z.

10 game seasons with a cup done by mid December? GHS seasons TBD, allowing a limited number of entrants into state cup without providing alternative tournaments for others to enter....

This is not the right approach to take. The state should stop trying to run leagues and instead just administer the state cups and the state calendar. I don't care if the districts or associations or private individuals decide to organize and run the leagues but they should be independent of the state. Let the customer decide not dictate from above.

Metz,

The State has always organized the leagues for years and years. The old LPT system was designed and administered by them.  Then came the PDL run by the Club DOC's (or lets say a very small cartel) aka the "paid employees" behind puppet club presidents (aka CP) who have taken some potentially good ideas and completely ruined them to serve their own self interests. If their system was transparent or even was a subjective system that any reasonable person could understand and they governed themselves with accounatbility we wouldn't be here today.  This proposal is an attenmpt to compromise with the DOCs because they do have leverage.  But IMO its not done yet. Its going under State control take it or leave it.  But to me the biggest weakness is having too many DOC on the operating committee.  A majority 5-3.  They have shown well they cannot be trusted with the charge.  IMO the game should be protected with oversight from the  State and the Associations.  I dont think Districts are really necessary.  The Clubs the DOC and the CPs are too conflicted.  They should have a vehicle to voice their opinions but should not have the veto.


I'm quite aware of the state running the leagues for years and years. They did such a bang up job at organizing and listening to their core customers that a group felt the need to break away and form their own league. This league was not only successful, it prospered, adding new teams and ages over time. The leagues the state continued to run have atrophied into a 2nd tier league. The numbers of games have continued to drop as has the service, while fees have gone up. Yes, the state really responded to this breakaway group by seeking to improve their offerings, NOT.

Now, I'm no huge fan of the PDL. If I was running a club I doubt I'd ever strive to become a PDL club. I agree that the processes that drive this league are arbitrary and depend more on who you know than how good your team and club are. It's designed to perpetuate the thought that only ex pro players are qualified to teach youth soccer and the going rate for this expertise is over 1k per kid per year. I don't agree with any of that.

That being said, I see no need to "bring the PDL back into the state". I believe the PDL offers certain choice to a percentage of the populace. I believe that other leagues should be given the opportunity to rise up to offer even more alternatives. I don't believe that the politic body known as "the state" is qualified or capable of offering one league (or even one system) to rule them all. I think the state should stick to providing state cups that determine state champions at various levels. These cups should be open to any and all teams provided they meet the qualifications of each cup ( qualification should not be playing in a WSYSA run league). The state should concentrate on providing services that are required at a state level (education, safety, discipline, yearly calendars, administration, etc). Running leagues or even being involved in the process that sets up leagues should not be in their domain.

Like bodies of players and individuals should be able to get together and form their own leagues based on their own rules. Don't agree with the PDL and their philosophies (as I don't)? Get together and form your own league. Tired of the superstar clubs "stealing" talent away? Form an independent super team across all of your area and kick their butt at state. Geographical issues due to a less dense population area? Think outside the box. Run tournaments every 2-3 weekends instead of asking everyone to travel each weekend. Solve your own problems.

This is the age of the internet, where everyone is connected to everyone else. Solve your own problems instead of tilting at windmills (the state) and keep the large monolithic entity out of the management of day to day activities.

The state has shown that they aren't capable of pulling off an A to Z soccer experience for our kids. Heck, they can't even manage the mostly minor leagues they currently offer.


I think what you are suggesting is a bit like the wild west.  Not sure if I am comfortable with that. 

Look to more relevant examples, such as how other USYS affiliates operate.

Well put, metz123.

Logged

ponyup101

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +42/-10
  • Posts: 104
  • Joined 17/05/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 01:19:15 AM »

According to the conference call tonight with the Associations, this is not a proposal but the system that will be implemented for next season.  There is no vote needed.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 02:14:14 AM »

According to the conference call tonight with the Associations, this is not a proposal but the system that will be implemented for next season.  There is no vote needed.

Is anyone surprised?

So much for the final changes being made and the approval being taken at the Jan 16th conference.
Logged

soccer45girls

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +1109/-157
  • Posts: 950
  • Joined 15/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 02:30:43 AM »

All I can say, is..... WOW!!!!  :o :o :o
Logged
"Somewhere behind the athlete you've become, and the hours of practice, and the coaches who have pushed you, is a little girl who fell in love with the game and never looked back...Play for her."  Mia Hamm

justaparent

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +30/-13
  • Posts: 148
  • Didn't I write you a check yesterday?
  • Joined 25/11/2005
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 12:43:39 PM »

According to the conference call tonight with the Associations, this is not a proposal but the system that will be implemented for next season.  There is no vote needed.

Is anyone surprised?

So much for the final changes being made and the approval being taken at the Jan 16th conference.

Under the new By-Laws this is a Policy which does not require a vote.  Basically the Associations have no voting power except for elections at the AGM & player fee's at the January meeting.
Logged
"If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms." - Mike Ditka

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 02:03:35 PM »

>>>>Under the new By-Laws this is a Policy which does not require a vote.  Basically the Associations have no voting power except for elections at the AGM & player fee's at the January meeting.<<<<

Thanks Justaparent.
I had no idea that the changes extended THAT far.   
Strong Executive Power Structure was what was voted for.   That is certainly what we got.
Logged

Rock27

  • WPS-SpamKing Special Agent
  • ****
  • Karma: +474/-106
  • Posts: 1198
  • Joined 20/08/2007
    YearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2010, 03:04:16 PM »

So who really holds the keys to the kingdom now?
Logged

Doodlebug

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +18/-54
  • Posts: 162
  • Joined 01/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2010, 03:07:02 PM »

Dictator Doug and Tyrant Terry
Logged

Soccer Wonk

  • WPS Premier Poster
  • ***
  • Karma: +1223/-62
  • Posts: 700
  • Joined 21/07/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2010, 03:25:43 PM »

Dictator Doug and Tyrant Terry

... who are the executive leadership of WYS, working with the approval and consent of the WYS governing board.
Logged

EWSoccer64

  • WPS-Hall of Fame Poster
  • *****
  • Karma: +1925/-1463
  • Posts: 8067
  • Joined 07/02/2008
    YearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2010, 03:34:37 PM »

Dictator Doug and Tyrant Terry

Now, now Doodles.
Officially it is :
Doug the Dominator
   and
Terry the Terrible.   (Supposedly he is a fan of Russian History).

While on this board we have:
Sissy the Salacious
Brat the Bodacious
Squash the Supreme
Islander the Inquisitor
Sage (the name says it all)
FullRideSoon the Bard
Duffer the Dispenser (of wisdom, mispellings, rants and noses)
vms the victorious (one more year until the last kid is out of the house, right?)
Yote the Old
LeftFoot the Leftie
Doc the Liar
and so on.

Not to forget - Squash El Supremo.
Logged

Doodlebug

  • WPS Select Poster
  • **
  • Karma: +18/-54
  • Posts: 162
  • Joined 01/08/2009
    YearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: The Proposal
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 03:36:09 PM »

EW - I defer to your wisdom on the proper titles of those in charge!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up