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[2 CENTS]

Does this statistical data show the U14 PDL league is less competitive than pre PDL with more blowouts?
2005 data from (goal differential study) spreadsheet prepared by PDL founders to justify changing the league.

Goal differential - avg across all games
Percentage of competitive games (less than 3 goals)
Percentage of blow outs (4 goals and greater)

PRE PDL 2005 U14 B         
   GD   <3   >4
         
B State 1   1.9   75%   7%
B State 2   2.2   68%   23%
B State 3   1.8   80%   16%
         
PDL 2009 U14 B         
   GD   <3   >4
         
PDL D1   2.6   63%   29%
PDL D2   1.8   68%   14%
PDL D3   1.6   77%   9%
         
         
PRE PDL 2005 U14 G         
   GD   <3   >4
         
G State 1   1.2   89%   4%
G State 2   1.1   89%   4%
G State 3   1.0   95%   0%
         
PDL 2009 U14 G          
   GD   <3   >4
         
PDL D1   1.7   82%   14%
PDL D2   1.4   86%   11%
PDL D3   2.0   68%   16%
         

[ltg]

you should look at data for the same teams, not u14 teams.  year in and out there are lots of variations.  I think the PDL is much better for my daughter.  i hated paying all that money and time to go play some team that the girls beat 5-0 and could have beat 20-0 if they hadn't played down.  I like watching them play the same teams that add/delete a few players/ get new coaches/trainers and just make adjustments.  I think the top teams are stronger for playing stronger teams week in and week out.  you might think the LPT system handled that nicely, and it seemed to at the older age groups simply because the best players moved to the strongest teams around u16, but u-11-14 was very lopsided, and those are years that could really benefit from chasing teams that are just a tad better rather than chase teams that are way way better.  If you run or swim against someone who is just a fraction better than you, your time will be much better than if you swim against someone who isn't nearly as good and you aren't pushed.  you need and want that person who is slightly better.

[EWSoccer64]

you should look at data for the same teams, not u14 teams.  year in and out there are lots of variations.  I think the PDL is much better for my daughter.  i hated paying all that money and time to go play some team that the girls beat 5-0 and could have beat 20-0 if they hadn't played down.  I like watching them play the same teams that add/delete a few players/ get new coaches/trainers and just make adjustments.  I think the top teams are stronger for playing stronger teams week in and week out.  you might think the LPT system handled that nicely, and it seemed to at the older age groups simply because the best players moved to the strongest teams around u16, but u-11-14 was very lopsided, and those are years that could really benefit from chasing teams that are just a tad better rather than chase teams that are way way better.  If you run or swim against someone who is just a fraction better than you, your time will be much better than if you swim against someone who isn't nearly as good and you aren't pushed.  you need and want that person who is slightly better.

Itg, there was never an LPT system for U-11-13, it started at U-14.

[confucius]

As stated, it is an interesting read but you would have to correlate the data to compare the same teams in the same environments. However, considering this is nigh on impossible with the variables at play, roster changes, physical development of players from U14 above etc it is a meaningless exercise. There are strong leagues at certain age groups and weak ones. There are teams/age groups in the systems that periodically do well, does this mean the other age groups / leagues are a failure simply as they do not produce the same success? of course it doesn't.

It would be like chastising the entire U12 age group simply because the U13 one created more tournament and state champions with reference to other leagues relative performance. The question that is more pertinent is whether or not the players are enjoying their experience.

[ltg]

EW, I know there weren't LPTs at the younger ages.  that was part of my point.  ( My spouse thinks i'm not a very good communicator either).  Because of what was going on at u11-14, the PDL has been a better system for my last kid.  My older kids went through the old system and that is my comparison.  I like the PDL system very much.  I hated how one little thing  (made p2 instead of p1 first year) can get parents to take their good kids and run to another team, and then the bleeding continued.  even the PDL system won't change the fact that the top talent migrates to about 4-6 teams in the last couple years because there just aren't that many top level girls playing soccer or interested in college play by u17 and the ones that are all want to play on the team to beat and with and against each other.

[EWSoccer64]

EW, I know there weren't LPTs at the younger ages.  that was part of my point.  ( My spouse thinks i'm not a very good communicator either).  Because of what was going on at u11-14, the PDL has been a better system for my last kid.  My older kids went through the old system and that is my comparison.  I like the PDL system very much.  I hated how one little thing  (made p2 instead of p1 first year) can get parents to take their good kids and run to another team, and then the bleeding continued.  even the PDL system won't change the fact that the top talent migrates to about 4-6 teams in the last couple years because there just aren't that many top level girls playing soccer or interested in college play by u17 and the ones that are all want to play on the team to beat and with and against each other.

itg
you raise a valid point.  however, by permanently emplacing the big clubs in the first division for the younger kids, you have the type of situation you describe, except for it also happening at the younger ages too.   It is my hope that the new RTC/ODP system will ameliorate that in part.   But there is and will always be some of that.  Used to be mainly at the odler levels and teams that did not do well at LPTs, now it can be as young as U-11s.

[Edson Arantes]

I think that by itself it could slant a view. What are the standings for the age group? Are teams beating up on each other, or are there a couple of teams that everyone is blasting that is skewing the data?

13 year olds are not the most consistent performers week in and out.

[EWSoccer64]

>>>13 year olds are not the most consistent performers week in and out.<<<

Ah, I love a good understatement!   

[Futsal]

I think that by itself it could slant a view. What are the standings for the age group? Are teams beating up on each other, or are there a couple of teams that everyone is blasting that is skewing the data?

13 year olds are not the most consistent performers week in and out.

That same model was the basis for justifying the creation of the PDL.

So if we are saying that the model that justified the PDL is not a valid?  Then the justification for the need to create the PDL is not valid as well.

[2 CENTS]

you should look at data for the same teams, not u14 teams.  year in and out there are lots of variations.  I think the PDL is much better for my daughter.  i hated paying all that money and time to go play some team that the girls beat 5-0 and could have beat 20-0 if they hadn't played down.  I like watching them play the same teams that add/delete a few players/ get new coaches/trainers and just make adjustments.  I think the top teams are stronger for playing stronger teams week in and week out.  you might think the LPT system handled that nicely, and it seemed to at the older age groups simply because the best players moved to the strongest teams around u16, but u-11-14 was very lopsided, and those are years that could really benefit from chasing teams that are just a tad better rather than chase teams that are way way better.  If you run or swim against someone who is just a fraction better than you, your time will be much better than if you swim against someone who isn't nearly as good and you aren't pushed.  you need and want that person who is slightly better.

In the past under the Lpt system teams played their way into the league, basically establishing the top 32 teams, 1 – 32.
Under the PDL league they are removing teams ranked in the top 32 and replacing them with teams ranked lower. For example, if you remove the teams ranked #7 – 14 – 15 –19 -22 -23 – 29 and then replace them with teams ranked #35 – 38 – 41 – 55 – 62 – 71 and 101 you have weakened your league.

The 2005 data is a bar that has been set. They should try to be equal to or better. The data for the 2005 girls shows they had over 90% competitive games with less than 4% blowouts, now they are down to 80% competitive games with 15% blowouts.

[Left Foot]

2 Cents, do you have stats on the other age groups? Was there an outlier that really impacted the current year's stat's.

Love numbers but the answer to your question is "No, not yet." 

[2 CENTS]

2 Cents, do you have stats on the other age groups? Was there an outlier that really impacted the current year's stat's.

Love numbers but the answer to your question is "No, not yet." 

There is more data that supports the trend of weaker leagues.

Question:
Next fall when the PDL/RCL does not allow these teams access to the premier leagues, top 32

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris

And allows these teams to replace them.

37    Snohomish United Red   
42    Emerald City FC White   
43    Blackhills FC Boucher   
45    Columbia Timbers Blue
54    Washington Premier FC White
55    Crossfire Premier Red   
57    Highline Premier FC Eagles 
63    Greater Renton FC Red   
65    Northwest Nationals Blue   
69    Dos FC Premier White   -
70    Eastside FC Blue   -

Will the league be stronger or weaker?

 *Based on Islanders rankings. U13 Girls going to be U14.

[EWSoccer64]

Does it matter if the PDL is stronger or weaker?  The Peeps do not care, the DoCs do not care, 3 Play does not care.

The Peeps just want to pay to be part of the PDL/RCL/Elite Soccer Initials League.
The DoCs just want to keep up the image so that gravy train and their personal power base remain intact.
3Play is more concerned about having to drive outside of King County than playing the best competition available.

[Left Foot]

2 Cents, do you have stats on the other age groups? Was there an outlier that really impacted the current year's stat's.

Love numbers but the answer to your question is "No, not yet." 

There is more data that supports the trend of weaker leagues.

Question:
Next fall when the PDL/RCL does not allow these teams access to the premier leagues, top 32

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris

And allows these teams to replace them.

37    Snohomish United Red   
42    Emerald City FC White   
43    Blackhills FC Boucher   
45    Columbia Timbers Blue
54    Washington Premier FC White
55    Crossfire Premier Red   
57    Highline Premier FC Eagles 
63    Greater Renton FC Red   
65    Northwest Nationals Blue   
69    Dos FC Premier White   -
70    Eastside FC Blue   -

Will the league be stronger or weaker?

 *Based on Islanders rankings. U13 Girls going to be U14.

Are these all at one age group?

[2 CENTS]

2 Cents, do you have stats on the other age groups? Was there an outlier that really impacted the current year's stat's.

Love numbers but the answer to your question is "No, not yet." 

There is more data that supports the trend of weaker leagues.

Question:
Next fall when the PDL/RCL does not allow these teams access to the premier leagues, top 32

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris

And allows these teams to replace them.

37    Snohomish United Red   
42    Emerald City FC White   
43    Blackhills FC Boucher   
45    Columbia Timbers Blue
54    Washington Premier FC White
55    Crossfire Premier Red   
57    Highline Premier FC Eagles 
63    Greater Renton FC Red   
65    Northwest Nationals Blue   
69    Dos FC Premier White   -
70    Eastside FC Blue   -

Will the league be stronger or weaker?

 *Based on Islanders rankings. U13 Girls going to be U14.

Are these all at one age group?

Yes, 11 out of 32, 11/32, 1/3 

[Left Foot]

And then u will have a mass exudus of players from the 11 you've listed after the clubs are forced to tell everyone that there is now an offical premier service cartel supported and designated by WSYSA and these are the teams you should go to if'n u want to be a premier player. The RCL teams gety stronger and voila... the problem es solved!

[EWSoccer64]

And then u will have a mass exudus of players from the 11 you've listed after the clubs are forced to tell everyone that there is now an offical premier service cartel supported and designated by WSYSA and these are the teams you should go to if'n u want to be a premier player. The RCL teams gety stronger and voila... the problem es solved!

These teams were formed and have survived with just such a situation.  It's called the PDL.

[Left Foot]

Time will tell. Just wait till those notices go out from WSYSA to every player's family explaining that if you want to play premier, go to a state designated premier provider. We will see what happens after that.

[lester]

Time will tell. Just wait till those notices go out from WSYSA to every player's family explaining that if you want to play premier, go to a state designated premier provider. We will see what happens after that.

Lol.  That message had already been sent to them.
Six of them played in the top league of  Dist III at U12 where there were no PDL teams to be seen.  They were all told they would be neutered if they didn't play in WYS; six teams on the list played in the PSPL at U13, anyway.
They got the message loud and clear.

[ltg]

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris
  so if you look at team standings before the pdl you will not find many of these teams in the top 20 or 30.  with or without  the pdl, the top players from these teams would probably leave and go to their closest team that is a stronger team.  take #6  for example.  there are a number of girls that started with this club and before the pdl, they left and went to stronger teams.  now many of these girls are on odp, some have won a national championship in club soccer and they are doing what they want to do.  this would not have happened if they had stayed at their club which has historically been a select  level club.  if has been the way soccer has been long before the pdl.  there are just not that many girls playing soccer at the older age groups and they begin to join forces as they get older.  we aren't going to have 50 equal teams.  come tryouts i guarantee you, the top players from these teams are going to look at who are the top teams in their age group and they are going to go to their tryouts, and it is going to be those that have consistently for the past 10 years tended to be on top, not just the one hit wonder.  look at u15 crush.  they don't have tons of girls at their tryouts because even though they are on top, it is still a gamble as a rogue team.  the parrots didn't even have tryouts, you just called the coach and asked to come and kick the ball around with the team.

[lester]

...  with or without  the pdl, the top players from these teams would probably leave and go to their closest team that is a stronger team. ...  ... they don't have tons of girls at their tryouts because even though they are on top, it is still a gamble as a rogue team.  the parrots didn't even have tryouts, you just called the coach and asked to come and kick the ball around with the team.

I think that is the point of the thread.  There are really good players playing on teams outside the PDL which will put them outside the WYS RTL.

Here's the State League finish from 2003. Clearly some "rogue" teams succeeded.

D1                                        W   T    L    GF    GA   Pts
 FC Royals 89                       13    0    1    36    7    39
 Eastside FC 89 Red               7    3    4    22    22    24
 FWU Reign 89 Purple             7    2    5    17    13    23
 Crossfire Premier '89-Parker  7    1    6    21    16    22
 Snohomish United Clash        6    3    5    17    13    21
 Emerald City FC 89 Green      5    2    7    17    24    17
 Skagit Storm                       3    0   11     7     28     9
 3-Rivers SC 89 Green           2    1   11    16    30    7

D2                                       W    T     L      GF    GA    Pts
 Phoenix 89 Red                    13    1    2    47    13    40
 Spokane Shadow GU14         9    4    3    48    16    31
 SUN CITY STRIKERS RED       9    2    5    22    17    29
 FC Alliance Gold 89               7    3    6    23    27    24
 Marauders 89 Premier       6    3    7    19    21    21
 Shooting Stars '89               4    4    8    16    25    16
 Whatcom F.C. Rangers       4    4    8    19    27    16
 Dosveedanya 89               4    3    9    12    37    15
 Marysville Force 89               3    2    11    22    45    11

Classic                                       W     T      L      GF   GA     Pts
 Crossfire Premier '90-Lombard    11    3    0    23    4    36
 Mt Rainier FC 89 - Santos            11    2    1    31    5    35
 Cascade Select Fury                     7    4    3    19    15    25
 FC Kitsap 89 Red                     5    5    3    15    14    20
 NWN ALLEMANIA                     3    4    7    8    17    13
 Columbia Timbers 89 Hanson     2    5    7    15    19    11
 Emerald City FC 89 White             2    3    9    11    25    9
 FC VANCOUVER - EXTREME     1    0    12    5    28    3

WSYDL                                W   T      L      GF    GA    Pts
 Revolution-89                     11    2    1    29    10    35
 BLACKHILLS FC '89              8    2    4    25    15    26
 FC Royals 90                      7    4    3    17    9    25
 Mt Rainier FC 89 - Strikers   4    5    3    16    12    17
 MV Marauders 89 Elite      4    5    5    19    19    17
 Phoenix '89 White              3    5    6    18    24    14
 Pegasus FC Blue              1    5    7    12    25    8
 SUN CITY STRIKERS WHITE   0    4    9    4    26    4

[Left Foot]

And then u will have a mass exudus of players from the 11 you've listed after the clubs are forced to tell everyone that there is now an offical premier service cartel supported and designated by WSYSA and these are the teams you should go to if'n u want to be a premier player. The RCL teams gety stronger and voila... the problem es solved!

These teams were formed and have survived with just such a situation.  It's called the PDL.

EW, I think you might want to consider things from the perspective of a parent new to soccer who has no idea, or just a vague idea about leagues and such. Step back a little bit and forget that you've been eating and breathing this stuff for 20 years.
Parent's are looking for indicia of quality. That some team plays in some league is rather abstract. That the club your considering is formally designated by the state to be one of only a select few premier soccer training providers is a whole 'nother ballgame.
PDL shmee DL, this is a state Premier club we are talkin' about baby and (if you are talking the big 6,) they actually win state championships and their coaches all have licenses.

Devalue this sort of thing all you want, but a parent would not be illogical to consider these factctors in picking a club -- among other things of course. And, chances are, at least in the past, they probably first heard about the club while getting there butts whooped in some tourney by some b team from the club.   

[cheersme95keep]

And then u will have a mass exudus of players from the 11 you've listed after the clubs are forced to tell everyone that there is now an offical premier service cartel supported and designated by WSYSA and these are the teams you should go to if'n u want to be a premier player. The RCL teams gety stronger and voila... the problem es solved!

These teams were formed and have survived with just such a situation.  It's called the PDL.

EW, I think you might want to consider things from the perspective of a parent new to soccer who has no idea, or just a vague idea about leagues and such. Step back a little bit and forget that you've been eating and breathing this stuff for 20 years.
Parent's are looking for indicia of quality. That some team plays in some league is rather abstract. That the club your considering is formally designated by the state to be one of only a select few premier soccer training providers is a whole 'nother ballgame.
PDL shmee DL, this is a state Premier club we are talkin' about baby and (if you are talking the big 6,) they actually win state championships and their coaches all have licenses.

Devalue this sort of thing all you want, but a parent would not be illogical to consider these factctors in picking a club -- among other things of course. And, chances are, at least in the past, they probably first heard about the club while getting there butts whooped in some tourney by some b team from the club.   

my head just started spinning at the memory!

[tripleplay]

2 Cents, do you have stats on the other age groups? Was there an outlier that really impacted the current year's stat's.

Love numbers but the answer to your question is "No, not yet." 

There is more data that supports the trend of weaker leagues.

Question:
Next fall when the PDL/RCL does not allow these teams access to the premier leagues, top 32

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris

And allows these teams to replace them.

37    Snohomish United Red   
42    Emerald City FC White   
43    Blackhills FC Boucher   
45    Columbia Timbers Blue
54    Washington Premier FC White
55    Crossfire Premier Red   
57    Highline Premier FC Eagles 
63    Greater Renton FC Red   
65    Northwest Nationals Blue   
69    Dos FC Premier White   -
70    Eastside FC Blue   -

Will the league be stronger or weaker?

 *Based on Islanders rankings. U13 Girls going to be U14.

The unstated assumption is that strength should be the only factor in bracketing. Most of the non-RCL teams played PSPL. With only a handful of clubs they were able to put together leagues that weren’t appreciably different than either the State or PDL. Imagine what would happen if all clubs were allowed to organize themselves according to mutual interest – which means both strength and geography?

Here are the GU14 brackets in the Coast Soccer league (Los Angeles):
12 Gold teams
8 Silver Elite South teams
8 Silver Elite North teams
5 geographic Silver divisions of ~8 teams each
10 geographic Bronze divisions of ~8 teams each

Here are the GU14 brackets for the much smaller Presidio league (San Diego)
8 Premier
8 AAA
8 AA-A North
8 AA-A South
8 AA-B North
8 AA-B South

There are not different state-designated classifications. There are not Association-designated preferred clubs. There is not state-mandated travel. The leagues are independently run and administered according to common sense principles. What is wrong with it?

[EWSoccer64]

>>>The unstated assumption is that strength should be the only factor in bracketing. Most of the non-RCL teams played PSPL. <<<3Play

Err, 3Play, nice to see that you are abandoning the old PDL line of "like vs Like" that you spewed out so long.   So now you are admitting that every piece of propaganda fed to you by the PDL is wrong?
And you are wrong again, most of the non-RCL teams do not play PSPL.  You have to start recognizing that the state is bigger than your part of King County.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

[Firedog]

EW,

I think 3Play was referencing the non PDL/RCL teams listed above and about that, he is right.  The majority of them played in the PSPL.

[tripleplay]

>>>The unstated assumption is that strength should be the only factor in bracketing. Most of the non-RCL teams played PSPL. <<<3Play

Err, 3Play, nice to see that you are abandoning the old PDL line of "like vs Like" that you spewed out so long.   So now you are admitting that every piece of propaganda fed to you by the PDL is wrong?
And you are wrong again, most of the non-RCL teams do not play PSPL.  You have to start recognizing that the state is bigger than your part of King County.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

This from the guy who has repeatedly confused Issaquah (yes, there is a correct way to spell it, EW) and Snohomish!

[2 CENTS]

6    South Sound FC Red
7    Synergy FC McCreery
11    Wenatchee Fire Black
15    CB United Navy
21    Cascade FC
22    FC Crush Academy Sky
23    Maple Valley Premier Marauders Blue
24    Bainbridge Island FC Blue
26    Seattle City FC Saprissa
29    River City Reign
30    Spokane Sabers Terris
  so if you look at team standings before the pdl you will not find many of these teams in the top 20 or 30.  with or without  the pdl, the top players from these teams would probably leave and go to their closest team that is a stronger team.  take #6  for example.  there are a number of girls that started with this club and before the pdl, they left and went to stronger teams.  now many of these girls are on odp, some have won a national championship in club soccer and they are doing what they want to do.  this would not have happened if they had stayed at their club which has historically been a select  level club.  if has been the way soccer has been long before the pdl.  there are just not that many girls playing soccer at the older age groups and they begin to join forces as they get older.  we aren't going to have 50 equal teams.  come tryouts i guarantee you, the top players from these teams are going to look at who are the top teams in their age group and they are going to go to their tryouts, and it is going to be those that have consistently for the past 10 years tended to be on top, not just the one hit wonder.  look at u15 crush.  they don't have tons of girls at their tryouts because even though they are on top, it is still a gamble as a rogue team.  the parrots didn't even have tryouts, you just called the coach and asked to come and kick the ball around with the team.

Am I reading this correctly?

The smaller clubs/Associations should just stop trying to create top teams because their players will probably leave anyway.

Weakening the top league to force players to leave their teams by excluding the teams that would make it a stronger league because the top players should leave to play in a weaker league on a stronger team.

12 year olds will be driving themselves around going to tryouts looking for the top teams.

There are not enough players to go around so everybody should just play for Crossfire, Eastside & Wash premier.

If a team beats your team you should quit your team and go to the team that beat you.

New Orleans should have given up years ago and sent their players to New York.

[EWSoccer64]

>>>The unstated assumption is that strength should be the only factor in bracketing. Most of the non-RCL teams played PSPL. <<<3Play

Err, 3Play, nice to see that you are abandoning the old PDL line of "like vs Like" that you spewed out so long.   So now you are admitting that every piece of propaganda fed to you by the PDL is wrong?
And you are wrong again, most of the non-RCL teams do not play PSPL.  You have to start recognizing that the state is bigger than your part of King County.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Come on, 3Play, step up.  You were wrong about DoCs being qualified to govern clubs.  You were racist in your posts about Eastern Washignton.  You are wrong about the AYSO in California.  You are whine about kids being "neglected" in rec.  You make all sorts of wild assertations and claims about me, all wrong.  Yet you always run and hide when challenged.   You think the world ends at the borders of King County.  All you do is drink the koolaid of the PDL.  No wonder Squash threw his hands up in disgust at you and refused to even respond to your inanities anymore.

[ltg]

2 cents.  i didn't say they should stop trying to develop top teams.  this is the goal for all teams.  be the best you can be, right.  ,i am only pointing out what has been going on for years in youth soccer.  Parents make the call more than anything else and competitive parents are going to do their homework and decide where they want to encourage their child to tryout.  You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.  and what is wrong with a coach suggesting to their star player that they should consider trying out for a more competitive team for the sake of development of the kid, not the team.  I think coaches may be a little selfish in wanting to hold back some players that would be better for their development if they played with and against stronger teams.  i think there are a lot of coach egos involved here and if everyone was on the same team, then the right things would happen, but it seems like everyone is in competition and i don't mean on the field per se.  farm systems work and this seems to be what the state is trying to set up.  if rec coaches discouraged their players from going for more and just told them to stick with the daisys, if you all do we will be the best team in the country in a few years, then there is no system in place that benefits the kids.  i think i understand what the state is trying to set up and to me it seems like it will be best for the individual kids and the teams that are the regional clubs have been chosen because they have the history and infrastructure to implement this idea.  you posted 2003 above, check it out pretty much the same clubs.  go back to 1999 and you will find the same clubs.  the state is trying to help parents help their kids play the soccer they want to play.