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[English1]

OMG EW, you always wanna fight me...who pulled your chain anyway?  It was an innocent post that should have maybe read...

WANTED
GK (but you won't have to do this for the rest of your life)
You will still get to see other parts of the pitch
You will have GK coaching as extra training, the others won't but ssshhhhh
cp's won't say the word GOALKEEPER in front of you
development a must
other postions optional

Over the top!!!

[tripleplay]

English1, we are talking about a couple or several boys filling in now, we are not talking about years down the line having a dedicated keeper.
Sockemgirlz just posted that she is looking for a dedicated keeper for her GU-15 or GU-16 team (I do not remember which it is).  I doubt that anyone will raise an eyebrow.

The discussion here is on how appropriate it is to have a ten year old in goalkeeper only straightjacket.   That is what was posted about originally.  Knowledgeable people (which excludes 3Play) understand that it is not appropriate to have ten years specialising in the goalkeeper position.

If you got out more, you'd realize that the dedicated or nearly dedicated U11 select keeper is not a rarity. Not really an issue. Those kids are playing or practicing the sport about 200 hours per year, and there is ample opportunity to learn whatever aspects of the sport they want to.

The more interesting question in my mind is, say, the rec U8 player playing at an age where keeper is first introduced and the total time spent in the sport is much smaller. What if a player expresses great interest in the job and wants to play it as much as possible, while several teammates don't want to play it at all? I'm sure most coaches would ignore the players and rotate everybody through the position. Some would (dishonestly) give arguments such as have appeared on this blog that it is for the player's own good. But the real reason I think is that coaches are part of a soccer culture in which keepers are not "real” soccer players and putting players in the position is something that is done apologetically.

I don’t think it is coincidence that a few years later when clubs hold tryouts, there will be 5 kids trying out for each field spot, but less than two trying out for keeper. It’s the natural result of downplaying and denigrating the position from day one.

[EWSoccer64]

Denigrating the goalkeeper from day one?
3Play, you really need to get more experience out there before making sweeping, assinine assumptions like that.

English1, we are talking about a couple or several boys filling in now, we are not talking about years down the line having a dedicated keeper.
Sockemgirlz just posted that she is looking for a dedicated keeper for her GU-15 or GU-16 team (I do not remember which it is).  I doubt that anyone will raise an eyebrow.

The discussion here is on how appropriate it is to have a ten year old in goalkeeper only straightjacket.   That is what was posted about originally.  Knowledgeable people (which excludes 3Play) understand that it is not appropriate to have ten years specialising in the goalkeeper position.

If you got out more, you'd realize that the dedicated or nearly dedicated U11 select keeper is not a rarity. Not really an issue. Those kids are playing or practicing the sport about 200 hours per year, and there is ample opportunity to learn whatever aspects of the sport they want to.

The more interesting question in my mind is, say, the rec U8 player playing at an age where keeper is first introduced and the total time spent in the sport is much smaller. What if a player expresses great interest in the job and wants to play it as much as possible, while several teammates don't want to play it at all? I'm sure most coaches would ignore the players and rotate everybody through the position. Some would (dishonestly) give arguments such as have appeared on this blog that it is for the player's own good. But the real reason I think is that coaches are part of a soccer culture in which keepers are not "real” soccer players and putting players in the position is something that is done apologetically.

I don’t think it is coincidence that a few years later when clubs hold tryouts, there will be 5 kids trying out for each field spot, but less than two trying out for keeper. It’s the natural result of downplaying and denigrating the position from day one.

[EWSoccer64]

English, I did not think that my post in response to yours was fighting with you or over the top.  I was trying to refocuse the conversation.   Because while what you wrote below is better than the STATED aim of the team/coach in their e-mail, you are trying to be facetious.   Now that is ironic, and possibly sardonic as well.

OMG EW, you always wanna fight me...who pulled your chain anyway?  It was an innocent post that should have maybe read...

WANTED
GK (but you won't have to do this for the rest of your life)
You will still get to see other parts of the pitch
You will have GK coaching as extra training, the others won't but ssshhhhh
cp's won't say the word GOALKEEPER in front of you
development a must
other postions optional

Over the top!!!

[tripleplay]

Denigrating the goalkeeper from day one?
3Play, you really need to get more experience out there before making sweeping, assinine assumptions like that.

Kids aren't stupid. They see that everyone is made to play keeper, and that no effort is taught teaching it because it is better to spend time on the "important" field stuff. It sends a message.

You were attacking a kid for wanting to play keeper at U11 - what chance does the U8 face?



 

[EWSoccer64]

Nice twsiting, 3Play -

First of all, I was not attacking the kid who theoretically wants to specialise as goaleekper at age 10.  I was stating that the adults who encourage and allow him to do that are WRONG.   Nice try to spin it, though.
Second of all,  I have not seen a team at U-8 or U-11 where "no attempt was made to teach" goalkeeper.   Pray tell, enlighten us with your vast experience.  Could you even recognize an attempt to teach goalkeeping skills?   Not judging by your posts!
No wonder you are so dreadully unhappy with youth soccer in this state, you lack the faculty to recognize what is going on.  So you condemn everything and everyone because of your own twisted past.

Denigrating the goalkeeper from day one?
3Play, you really need to get more experience out there before making sweeping, assinine assumptions like that.

Kids aren't stupid. They see that everyone is made to play keeper, and that no effort is taught teaching it because it is better to spend time on the "important" field stuff. It sends a message.

You were attacking a kid for wanting to play keeper at U11 - what chance does the U8 face?



 

[tripleplay]

First of all, I was not attacking the kid who theoretically wants to specialise as goaleekper at age 10.  I was stating that the adults who encourage and allow him to do that are WRONG.   Nice try to spin it, though.
Second of all,  I have not seen a team at U-8 or U-11 where "no attempt was made to teach" goalkeeper.   Pray tell, enlighten us with your vast experience.  Could you even recognize an attempt to teach goalkeeping skills?   Not judging by your posts!

Hmmm. You have to play in the field to learn how to play in the field, but you don’t have to play keeper to learn how to play keeper? So the U8 rec coach Dad can just “teach” keeper skills but the ex-pro coaching at U11 can’t teach field skills?

You also haven’t addressed the facts – that we don’t sell the keeper position well and have a keeper shortage at the age when all teams go to full time keeper. And why again is it WRONG to consider factors other than some minute theoretical development advantage when structuring a program – shouldn’t having fun, being cost-effective and teaching life skills among other things have some weight?

[EWSoccer64]

3Play, you still have not addressed the facts.   You do like to invent them, though.   Where is this U-8 coach who knows nothing about coaching goalkeepers or this U-11 coach who is an e-pro (you did not have the gall to specify that he was a x-soccer player, though).  Come on, tell us about your vast experience that allows you to keep make these sweeping, erronious judgements....

First of all, I was not attacking the kid who theoretically wants to specialise as goaleekper at age 10.  I was stating that the adults who encourage and allow him to do that are WRONG.   Nice try to spin it, though.
Second of all,  I have not seen a team at U-8 or U-11 where "no attempt was made to teach" goalkeeper.   Pray tell, enlighten us with your vast experience.  Could you even recognize an attempt to teach goalkeeping skills?   Not judging by your posts!

Hmmm. You have to play in the field to learn how to play in the field, but you don’t have to play keeper to learn how to play keeper? So the U8 rec coach Dad can just “teach” keeper skills but the ex-pro coaching at U11 can’t teach field skills?

You also haven’t addressed the facts – that we don’t sell the keeper position well and have a keeper shortage at the age when all teams go to full time keeper. And why again is it WRONG to consider factors other than some minute theoretical development advantage when structuring a program – shouldn’t having fun, being cost-effective and teaching life skills among other things have some weight?

[Prophet]

 At least things are back to normal with tryouts over.

[Back In BLACK]

You all are nuts.  My kid loves playing keeper, loves "playing the field" too  .  Kid gets his keeper time and gets all the field time during practices, guest plays and indoor.  When it comes to where he is most comfortable it's in goal.  If somebody was asking for a keeper and it was a good fit, where he would get field skills as well as keeper training I'd have no issue sending him for a try out.  Everyone needs to Chilax   

Save all your pestering of OldEnglish for the RC and summer tournaments, the season hasn't even started yet OR has it?   

[Left Foot]

You all are nuts.  My kid loves playing keeper, loves "playing the field" too  .  Kid gets his keeper time and gets all the field time during practices, guest plays and indoor.  When it comes to where he is most comfortable it's in goal.  If somebody was asking for a keeper and it was a good fit, where he would get field skills as well as keeper training I'd have no issue sending him for a try out.  Everyone needs to Chilax   

Save all your pestering of OldEnglish for the RC and summer tournaments, the season hasn't even started yet OR has it?   

How old is your kid and does he really have to guest play with another team in order to play in the field? 

[Back In BLACK]

You all are nuts.  My kid loves playing keeper, loves "playing the field" too   .  Kid gets his keeper time and gets all the field time during practices, guest plays and indoor.  When it comes to where he is most comfortable it's in goal.  If somebody was asking for a keeper and it was a good fit, where he would get field skills as well as keeper training I'd have no issue sending him for a try out.  Everyone needs to Chilax    

Save all your pestering of OldEnglish for the RC and summer tournaments, the season hasn't even started yet OR has it?  

How old is your kid and does he really have to guest play with another team in order to play in the field?  

U12 and no he doesn't have to guest play, he choses to so he can play more.  Would it be odd for a field player to want to guest play as a keeper?   doubt it

[Left Foot]

You all are nuts.  My kid loves playing keeper, loves "playing the field" too   .  Kid gets his keeper time and gets all the field time during practices, guest plays and indoor.  When it comes to where he is most comfortable it's in goal.  If somebody was asking for a keeper and it was a good fit, where he would get field skills as well as keeper training I'd have no issue sending him for a try out.  Everyone needs to Chilax    

Save all your pestering of OldEnglish for the RC and summer tournaments, the season hasn't even started yet OR has it?  

How old is your kid and does he really have to guest play with another team in order to play in the field?  

U12 and no he doesn't have to guest play, he choses to so he can play more.  Would it be odd for a field player to want to guest play as a keeper?   doubt it

Well, oddly enough you seem to agree that a kid shouldn't specialize too early. Many teams at the younger ages have two goalies which gives them game experience in the field. Sounds like your son doesn't get field experience in games with his team but is getting that experience guest playing in the field and playing indoor. And yes, it strikes me as odd for a kid to have to find some other team to guest for if he or she wanted to try to play some keeper. What would be the problem -- not enough development to go around or something? And it strikes me as odd that your son needs to guest for another team to get some time playing in the field. Well, unless he plays in the MLS or something. 

[Back In BLACK]

You all are nuts.  My kid loves playing keeper, loves "playing the field" too   .  Kid gets his keeper time and gets all the field time during practices, guest plays and indoor.  When it comes to where he is most comfortable it's in goal.  If somebody was asking for a keeper and it was a good fit, where he would get field skills as well as keeper training I'd have no issue sending him for a try out.  Everyone needs to Chilax    

Save all your pestering of OldEnglish for the RC and summer tournaments, the season hasn't even started yet OR has it?  

How old is your kid and does he really have to guest play with another team in order to play in the field?  

U12 and no he doesn't have to guest play, he choses to so he can play more.  Would it be odd for a field player to want to guest play as a keeper?   doubt it

Well, oddly enough you seem to agree that a kid shouldn't specialize too early. Many teams at the younger ages have two goalies which gives them game experience in the field. Sounds like your son doesn't get field experience in games with his team but is getting that experience guest playing in the field and playing indoor. And yes, it strikes me as odd for a kid to have to find some other team to guest for if he or she wanted to try to play some keeper. What would be the problem -- not enough development to go around or something? And it strikes me as odd that your son needs to guest for another team to get some time playing in the field. Well, unless he plays in the MLS or something. 

You ever think that maybe the kid is slower than slow, has two left feet and lacks the skill to play the field without killing somebody and plays down to build the skills necessary to hang with the big kids?  Just saying

[Back In BLACK]

Ultimately it's the kids/parents choice to find the right fit and find a place the kid can develop and be happy.  If a kid wants to only play keeper then let them play keeper.

 How often does a coach force a kid to play keeper?  Seldom would be a high estimate.  Should a coach force a kid to play forward?  

Just because you want a kid to play keeper doesn't mean he/she will be happy doing it.  Why do you think all kids want to play the field?  Some kids flat out love playing a position and will play that position more than any other.  Doesn't mean they can't guest play with friends and hit the bigfoot, camp, and play other positions for the heck of it.  

If your kid wants to play the field and play keep, find a team that is accomodating to his/her needs.  I certainly wouldn't blame a keeper for changing teams so they could play the field, if that's what they wanted.  I also wouldn't judge a kid if all they wanted to do was play keeper.  

Let me add that I think all keepers need field skills. I am not in favor of a kid sitting in goal during every practice, all players need to develop the field skills. 

Toss me some more sarcasm, I've been away from the wife for a few days and am feeling homesick  

[Left Foot]

BnB <<all players need to develop the field skills>>

Excellent.

And as for folks being crazy. You are absolutely correct. I mean really, mad, passionate epistles on 10 year-olds playing a game???

What is sarcasm anyway. I think my wife might might be using that on me and I just don't know it!

[Back In BLACK]

BnB <<all players need to develop the field skills>>

Excellent.

And as for folks being crazy. You are absolutely correct. I mean really, mad, passionate epistles on 10 year-olds playing a game???

What is sarcasm anyway. I think my wife might might be using that on me and I just don't know it!

Most Likely 

[English1]

I am fascinated by the responses because I believe that if the wanted ad had read midfielder or striker wanted for U11 team.  There wouldn't have been a problem...
EW, you know you wanna have a little fighty poo with me...summer wouldn't be summer without it

Good luck to this little feisty crew of 10 year olds...

[EWSoccer64]

I am fascinated by the responses because I believe that if the wanted ad had read midfielder or striker wanted for U11 team.  There wouldn't have been a problem...
EW, you know you wanna have a little fighty poo with me...summer wouldn't be summer without it

Good luck to this little feisty crew of 10 year olds...

Nah, Old English, I do not want to have to repeat the story about the bear and the "hunter".   And no, I have not been trying to fight with you.  My wife provides all the fighting that I want to deal with....

The salient point, that you miss in your post, is that goalkeeper is a unique, non-transferable (90%) skills wise, to a field player.  The transition between any of the field player positions is much more mental than it is technical.   There is a vast difference between GK and field player.   Like Pitcher and field player in baseball is a somewhat apt comparison.  So your attempt at a comparison, quoted above, is far off the mark.

[tripleplay]

Ultimately it's the kids/parents choice to find the right fit and find a place the kid can develop and be happy.  If a kid wants to only play keeper then let them play keeper.

 How often does a coach force a kid to play keeper?  Seldom would be a high estimate.  

I would say it is the norm in rec and also happens in select. It's basically the logical thing to do if you have a team of field players. I have no problem with it, but I do think the keeper shortage might result from policies like this.

Maybe keeper is just inherently less fun, but an alternate explanation for the difficulty in finding keepers is that maybe we start out populating our teams with field players who don't think keeper is fun, and the people who would enjoy keeper are not welcomed into the sport. Just a thought.

[kameharem]

I think by the time they are U11 and playing select or premier they have played enough to know if they like keeper or not and I don't believe you help develop a player by forcing them to take their turn in the goal.  that said, and my dk does want to be a full time keeper, I am glad that there are 3 players who enjoy and want to play keeper on our team so my dk will spend a majority of her time in the field developing her foot skills, while still being able to get keeper training, because I agree that ball skills are important at the younger ages.