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[Dead Guy]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

[sissy]

interesting observation...I don't have the answers but look forward to reading some of the opinions

[Left Foot]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Well...why wouldn't you go there? How can you make a vague statistical argument then not include data that you don't like... a la Sage? BTW, I'm sure it just slipped your mind, but the regional champ from Xfire went on to make the National finals. This hasn't been done for many years.  Now, is this "proof" that the PDL is effective? Nope! Not enough data....yet....either way.

You and EW should hook up though!

[breakaway]

A lot of newly formed teams beginning at the U-16 age level this year with the forming of the new ECNL and many wanting to compete.  We saw way more movement this year than in years past. The '94 ladies top teams, Xfire, EFC, WPFC, Reign.  Made quite a few changes to their rosters.
And who would expect the '94 Reign team to advance at Regionals after the team dissolved?  They were dealing with a lot of emotional girls going into the regional tournament, some girls mad at these girls for going here, others mad at others for going there..., etc.
 
Some teams have changed so much you can watch them play buddy ball. 

It's still really early and hopefully come spring it should piece itslef back together by then.

[Firedog]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Looking at this year's results from regionals, only 2 teams from WA (U19 boys and U14 girls) failed to advance beyond pool play.  1 Champion (U14 B), 6 semi finalists (including 2 at U12 G's and a U18 B's loss to Champs), and 8 Quarter finalists (U16 G's lost to eventual Champions after winning group).  If getting out of group was the old standard, it would appear the bar has been raised.

[soccerpride]

I am very hopeful Washington will continue to be well represented, and probably step it up a notch with every year that comes. The excitement of the World Cup this year I know has the boys in my home that much more crazed!

[tripleplay]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Looking at this year's results from regionals, only 2 teams from WA (U19 boys and U14 girls) failed to advance beyond pool play.  1 Champion (U14 B), 6 semi finalists (including 2 at U12 G's and a U18 B's loss to Champs), and 8 Quarter finalists (U16 G's lost to eventual Champions after winning group).  If getting out of group was the old standard, it would appear the bar has been raised.

Looking at the 20 WA teams playing in the highest Surf Cup division, 4 lost in the quarters (EFC GU15, Xfire BU12, EFC BU16, Sounders BU16) and the rest did not make it out of pool. The overall WA record was 13W-36L-15T and only Sounders Academy BU16 finished with a winning record. Of course, that doesn't prove we're getting worse because WA teams have rarely done well at Surf. It does show that Surf is MUCH harder than USYS Regionals though.

[EWSoccer64]

Lefty wants a century of data on the PDL before screwing up enugh courage to venture an opinion.   Unlike in other areas..........

Here is an area we will never see any data on.   Did the PDL cut down on the revolving roster door of the Big Clubs A teams?  And no, 3-Play, recruiting outside talent is not developing players.   So far, there is no evidence (either way) to show that it did.

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Well...why wouldn't you go there? How can you make a vague statistical argument then not include data that you don't like... a la Sage? BTW, I'm sure it just slipped your mind, but the regional champ from Xfire went on to make the National finals. This hasn't been done for many years.  Now, is this "proof" that the PDL is effective? Nope! Not enough data....yet....either way.

You and EW should hook up though!

[lester]

Interesting thoughts, Dead Guy.  I'm glad you brought the Surf up, I had totally forgotten about it this year.
Kudos to the teams that went from Washington and gave it their best shot; I agree with tripleplay that Surf is harder than regionals.

What jumped out at me was how few other states are represented anymore.  Too many other showcases, I guess.  Maybe the ECNL, Regional Leagues, Academies are all taking a toll on the Surf Cup.  They used to get more teams.
There were some 0-fers from Ca in it this year. Space fillers?   But its still tough, no Alaska or Montana teams to give you a freebee, all the brackets are tough.

I think the later tryout dates for Washington teams has a major impact on their ability to play team soccer in July.  Somebody... a college coach, I think... said it takes about 30 games to get a team playing together as a team.  Tough to do in the college environment when you only play 20 games, or your post season opportunities are decided by the results of your first ten games.

Anyway, without being able to form teams in April and get a number of 'meaningful' games under their belt, July will always be a challenge for Washington teams at the national level... and the Surf is a national tournament.

The two ECNL teams  in Washington at each age probably drew female players away from the teams that went to the Surf like the academies draw boys away. Oh, well.  To each his own.    It makes the Surf Cup more accessible to everyone else.

My opinion.

[EWSoccer64]

Some salient points there, Lester.   

Interesting thoughts, Dead Guy.  I'm glad you brought the Surf up, I had totally forgotten about it this year.
Kudos to the teams that went from Washington and gave it their best shot; I agree with tripleplay that Surf is harder than regionals.

What jumped out at me was how few other states are represented anymore.  Too many other showcases, I guess.  Maybe the ECNL, Regional Leagues, Academies are all taking a toll on the Surf Cup.  They used to get more teams.
There were some 0-fers from Ca in it this year. Space fillers?   But its still tough, no Alaska or Montana teams to give you a freebee, all the brackets are tough.

I think the later tryout dates for Washington teams has a major impact on their ability to play team soccer in July.  Somebody... a college coach, I think... said it takes about 30 games to get a team playing together as a team.  Tough to do in the college environment when you only play 20 games, or your post season opportunities are decided by the results of your first ten games.

Anyway, without being able to form teams in April and get a number of 'meaningful' games under their belt, July will always be a challenge for Washington teams at the national level... and the Surf is a national tournament.

The two ECNL teams  in Washington at each age probably drew female players away from the teams that went to the Surf like the academies draw boys away. Oh, well.  To each his own.    It makes the Surf Cup more accessible to everyone else.

My opinion.

[El Matarife]

Interesting thoughts, Dead Guy.  I'm glad you brought the Surf up, I had totally forgotten about it this year.
Kudos to the teams that went from Washington and gave it their best shot; I agree with tripleplay that Surf is harder than regionals.

What jumped out at me was how few other states are represented anymore.  Too many other showcases, I guess.  Maybe the ECNL, Regional Leagues, Academies are all taking a toll on the Surf Cup.  They used to get more teams.
There were some 0-fers from Ca in it this year. Space fillers?   But its still tough, no Alaska or Montana teams to give you a freebee, all the brackets are tough.

I think the later tryout dates for Washington teams has a major impact on their ability to play team soccer in July.  Somebody... a college coach, I think... said it takes about 30 games to get a team playing together as a team.  Tough to do in the college environment when you only play 20 games, or your post season opportunities are decided by the results of your first ten games.

Anyway, without being able to form teams in April and get a number of 'meaningful' games under their belt, July will always be a challenge for Washington teams at the national level... and the Surf is a national tournament.

The two ECNL teams  in Washington at each age probably drew female players away from the teams that went to the Surf like the academies draw boys away. Oh, well.  To each his own.    It makes the Surf Cup more accessible to everyone else.

My opinion.

Just look at the list of college coaches on the boys side.  Not a single top team there except for California schools and even schools like UCLA neglected to show up.  The ECNL/Academy Showcases are now the place to be.

[2 CENTS]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Well...why wouldn't you go there? How can you make a vague statistical argument then not include data that you don't like... a la Sage? BTW, I'm sure it just slipped your mind, but the regional champ from Xfire went on to make the National finals. This hasn't been done for many years.  Now, is this "proof" that the PDL is effective? Nope! Not enough data....yet....either way.

You and EW should hook up though!

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

[4soccer]

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

Um, aren't we just starting the 4th year of the PDL in Sept? So only 3 years of no Champs.

[2 CENTS]

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

Um, aren't we just starting the 4th year of the PDL in Sept? So only 3 years of no Champs.

5th year started in March

[tripleplay]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Well...why wouldn't you go there? How can you make a vague statistical argument then not include data that you don't like... a la Sage? BTW, I'm sure it just slipped your mind, but the regional champ from Xfire went on to make the National finals. This hasn't been done for many years.  Now, is this "proof" that the PDL is effective? Nope! Not enough data....yet....either way.

You and EW should hook up though!

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

Also clear data: CalSouth had a typical year with 2 more national champions.

Washington's corrupt system where associations of rec players govern competitive soccer has to go. To succeed you need strong clubs.

Not sure I agree with Lester's points. Most of the Surf Cup teams are loaded up with guest players, and the ECNL teams go there too. It is what it is.

[Firedog]

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

Um, aren't we just starting the 4th year of the PDL in Sept? So only 3 years of no Champs.

5th year started in March

Some more statistics.  In all the years that USYSA has been holding national championship cups (U 19 Boys goes back to 1935) Washington teams have won a total of 3 titles (that I saw - heres the link - http://championships.usyouthsoccer.org/PastNationalChamps/PastUSYouthSoccerNationalChampionshipWinners19352007.asp#Under-19%20Boys):

1) U 16 Boys title in 83' won by Goalpost from Federal Way,
2) U18 Girls title in 96' won by FC Royals, and
3) U17 Girls title in 96' won by FC Royals

So, the failure of Washington to win a national championship during the PDL era is an indictment of the PDL?  How many other states have failed to win a title during the same 5 year period?  Don't get me wrong.  We should aspire to help our players and their teams achieve every success possible but, should we view those teams as failures when they don't win a national championship?  10,000 teams from all states compete for 12 championships.  I've heard it said that any idiot can blow something up but, it takes real genious to build something meaningful.  What would you do to fix the PDL/RCL that would produce national champions?

[kameharem]

I believe I saw a 4th national champion in 98 but I agree completely with you firdog and was about to post about the same but you beat me to it.

I don't think you can have a real comparison of PDL effectiveness with only 4-5 years and now the the PDL is done why can't we just move on.


Here is what I found in the by champions by state pdf for Washington:

FC Royals 1996 U-17 Girls Laura Moynihan Cup
FC Royals 1996 U-18 Girls Frank Kelly Cup
FC United 1999 U-18 Boys Andy Stone Cup
Goalpost Federal Way 1983 U-16 Boys D.J. Niotis Cup

[Left Foot]

Interesting to see that at Surf Cup, regionals, and other high level competitive tournaments WA teams are not competing as well as since PDL or aka "super clubs" and since mod/micro soccer.  I know, we had one team win regionals so don't even go there!

So why is that so?  Especially since WA youth soccer has supposedly come a long way in the last few years.  It was a huge kudos to go far or even get out of bracket back in the days but from what I've seen in the results its been less and getting less.

What gives?  And how are we failing?

Well...why wouldn't you go there? How can you make a vague statistical argument then not include data that you don't like... a la Sage? BTW, I'm sure it just slipped your mind, but the regional champ from Xfire went on to make the National finals. This hasn't been done for many years.  Now, is this "proof" that the PDL is effective? Nope! Not enough data....yet....either way.

You and EW should hook up though!

Un-vague statistical data:

PDL - 5 years, National champions 0

Previous 5 years...no champs and no finalists. Now we have a finalist.

And remember, this isn't 5 years at all age groups but only an increasing number. Don't think we even have all pdl teams at every age group yet do we?

[EWDOC]

While I'm on the record of not being a fan of the PDL, who really cares if they produced a National Champion.  I think a more interesting stat (if someone can dig it up) would be the over all record of our state champs at Regionals these past few years versus before the PDL era just to see if our state champs actually improved versus their competition at Regionals.

[naughtysporty]

Greatings from "the True North  -  Strong and Free"

Which of the 1994 / 1995 Washington teams has been invited to the Dallas Girls Cup?

http://www.premierinternationaltours.com/soccer/dallasinternationalgirlscup.html

The standard of competition should be impressive.  Our DD's team is pumped to get the call here in TO.