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[soccerboot]

I have heard that effective in the next month all coaches will be paid directly through their club and not by the parents anymore?  Is this a mandatory state thing or a club thing?  Any insight will be appreciated.

[Cornerkicker]

My son plays for MRFC/MRSA and we have not heard anything as of yet - we write a monthly check to the coach.  Isn't this how it's handled across the clubs?  Please educate....

[Black Knight]

Actually The two clubs I have worked with the club always paid the coaches.

It makes sense. Especially for tax purposes. If the parents are paying the coach directly there really isn't a record of it,and the club could become liable when it comes to tax time. But i the club pays their "employees" they can have them fill out a W2 and make sure everything is reported properly.

[ltg]

i have never been involved in a club where i paid the coach directly.  all my money goes through the club.  seems like better accounting when they are employed by the club

[soccerboot]

So is this something the state ensures is done or is it left up to the club?

[HuskyDawg]

So is this something the state ensures is done or is it left up to the club?

Our club pays the coach's and the families pay the club.  If has everything to do with accounting and tax laws.  If you pay the coach directly it can create some issues if said coach isn't reporting the income etc.  I've not heard it becoming a "state" thing but it could be.  My general feeling is it probably should be a "state" thing to keep everyone on the up and up.

[Cornerkicker]

hopefully my club will shed some light on this.  New to soccer and trying to figure out all the ins and outs.  pretty xhausting.

[EWDOC]

Other then the club mentioned, does anyone else do it this way?  I would hope all families pay the club directly and then the club either treats the coaches as employees or contractors. 

I haven't heard it as a state thing either, but could it be that it's in the RCL Charter somewhere?  Maybe that's where it will be enforced to help ensure clubs keeping their financials on track?

[soccerboot]

Well, why would a club not have coach pmt go through the club  I like the idea of the state doing a thing to ensure everyone is equal across the board.

[Cornerkicker]

Would it be beneficial to s/w the state about this to gain some insight and get their opinion?

[footie fan]

Most clubs are independent 501c(3) organizations.  I'm not sure how WYS can impact their financials, but I'm also pretty sure that the coaches are generally appointed (hired) by the clubs.  The clubs then should pay the salary, taxes, L&I etc..  Any method that bypasses this (see checks directly to the coaches), would impact the organizations financial reporting status (one would think) and cause a lot of exposure to employment security and L&I. 

I have see it where the coach/trainer was an independent contractor, but they had a business and checks were made out to the business and not the individual.

I think that checks from parents to coaches/trainers is dangerous and generally fails any accountablity.

[soccerboot]

Kicker -
Word through the state is that coach pmt should be through the club and that is how most of the clubs handle it.  Might want to talk with your club to find out why they don't do it that way - doesn't sound like the right way to go according to the posts from others.

[tripleplay]

Other then the club mentioned, does anyone else do it this way?  I would hope all families pay the club directly and then the club either treats the coaches as employees or contractors.  

I haven't heard it as a state thing either, but could it be that it's in the RCL Charter somewhere?  Maybe that's where it will be enforced to help ensure clubs keeping their financials on track?

I don't think any club was mentioned, but I know of a club that pays coaches out of a team account and like it. No opinion about whether it is compliant with tax laws but we get MUCH more accountability and transparency at the team level than the club level. You want to find an accurate line by line club/association budget? Good luck!

To put it another way. Clubs usually require that their team accounts be completely open. For their own budgets, however, they typically comply with non-profit disclosure laws, which are minimal.

[soccerboot]

Triple Play,

It looks like the club mentioned in one of the earlier posts is MRFC/MRSA.....

[tripleplay]

Triple Play,

It looks like the club mentioned in one of the earlier posts is MRFC/MRSA.....

OK, I missed that. No club was mentioned in the original post. The model that I am talking about is paying a team fee to the team treasurer, who then pays the coach. The club is kept abreast of all of this.

[Soccer Wonk]

After taking a lap through the form 990s on Guidestar a few years ago, it was clear that at some clubs, the teams pay the coaches directly. This was evident from the lack of any sizeable outlays reported, described as or lumped under any category that could represent payments to coaches.

At least one club that apparently paid the coaches through team accounts, based on that review, is a very prominent club. It was also reported on the forum awhile back that at one other very prominent club, while the teams pay the coaches directly, the club serves as a clearinghouse of sorts for making sure the W-2's are in and the 1099's go out. So coach payment practices are probably all over the map.

One team or club getting in trouble over this would undoubtedly expose all of the clubs to scrutiny. Buttoning this up protects everyone.

[Cornerkicker]

Well, if it works successfully for other clubs to have the monthly coaching payment paid through them, then all clubs should operate that way.  Just need to inquire with our club as to why it's done this way....

[Driver]

I think it is a newr thing - when we started a few years back - we paid the team treasurer who then paid the coach but that was a while ago  for the past few years at least 4 we have been having our payments taken out totally by bonzi (via our club) who then has the club paying the coach.  The only thing going to team treasurer is tournaments and maybe legue fees and parties and extra equipment and I think travel - after having to help sort out an accounting mess as team treasurer left club in middle of season and reocrds were awful - I would never go back to the team treasurer method again.

[footie fan]

We pay everything through bonzi, or a check to the club.  We have a paid club manager who handles the money with oversight from the elected treasurer and board.  Finally, there is an outside audit conducted regularly (every two years I believe).   Sure, it costs a bit more to have a part-time manager, but all dollars go through the club (tournaments, league fees, equipment etc.) and the accountability is very high.    I was under the impression most of the clubs operated this way.

[tripleplay]

We pay everything through bonzi, or a check to the club.  We have a paid club manager who handles the money with oversight from the elected treasurer and board.  Finally, there is an outside audit conducted regularly (every two years I believe).   Sure, it costs a bit more to have a part-time manager, but all dollars go through the club (tournaments, league fees, equipment etc.) and the accountability is very high.    I was under the impression most of the clubs operated this way.

Unless you have the actual club budget, which would be a rarity, then I don't see how you can say accountability is high. Clubs are only required to file vague, general documents - meaning that there is alot of room for shenanigans. If you want to know exactly where the money you spend on USYS, WYS, District, Association, or your club goes, good luck in finding it. You have no legal right to know, and few organizations will disclose any details beyond the minimum legal requirements. But if you play on the team where I am treasurer, you will know exactly where every penny of your money was spent. One of the things that drives up soccer costs is the lack of accountability when all costs are through the club.

[Cornerkicker]

i]Unless you have the actual club budget, which would be a rarity, then I don't see how you can say accountability is high. Clubs are only required to file vague, general documents - meaning that there is alot of room for shenanigans. If you want to know exactly where the money you spend on USYS, WYS, District, Association, or your club goes, good luck in finding it. You have no legal right to know, and few organizations will disclose any details beyond the minimum legal requirements. But if you play on the team where I am treasurer, you will know exactly where every penny of your money was spent. One of the things that drives up soccer costs is the lack of accountability when all costs are through the club.
[/quote][/
Well, as I see it, as a parent that is paying the fees, the club therefore is completely transparent.  If I or any other parent walk into a club that is funded by parents, and ask for spending information, it is the board's responsibility to provide that to the parents.  

[kameharem]

maybe the coach found a way to get paid by both the club and the parents 





*that was a joke and I am not accusing or suggesting that any club or coach is doing this*

[EWDOC]

We pay everything through bonzi, or a check to the club.  We have a paid club manager who handles the money with oversight from the elected treasurer and board.  Finally, there is an outside audit conducted regularly (every two years I believe).   Sure, it costs a bit more to have a part-time manager, but all dollars go through the club (tournaments, league fees, equipment etc.) and the accountability is very high.    I was under the impression most of the clubs operated this way.

Unless you have the actual club budget, which would be a rarity, then I don't see how you can say accountability is high. Clubs are only required to file vague, general documents - meaning that there is alot of room for shenanigans. If you want to know exactly where the money you spend on USYS, WYS, District, Association, or your club goes, good luck in finding it. You have no legal right to know, and few organizations will disclose any details beyond the minimum legal requirements. But if you play on the team where I am treasurer, you will know exactly where every penny of your money was spent. One of the things that drives up soccer costs is the lack of accountability when all costs are through the club.

Why generalize everything?  Some on this post actually have clubs who are accountable to their members.  We distribute our district financials every meeting and have an audit of the check book done during the meeting.  We have a budget done every year.  I will agree that if you are with a club that doesn't put together a budget that is approved by a board of directors who are voted into place by the membership, then I would be worried.  

[tripleplay]

Well, as I see it, as a parent that is paying the fees, the club therefore is completely transparent.  If I or any other parent walk into a club that is funded by parents, and ask for spending information, it is the board's responsibility to provide that to the parents.  

I'm pretty sure the board has no legal responsibility to provide that to parents. I have seen some do it, but it is the exception. Most non-profits, soccer clubs included, will steer you to the publicly available mandatory filings (which don't really say anything).

[tripleplay]

We pay everything through bonzi, or a check to the club.  We have a paid club manager who handles the money with oversight from the elected treasurer and board.  Finally, there is an outside audit conducted regularly (every two years I believe).   Sure, it costs a bit more to have a part-time manager, but all dollars go through the club (tournaments, league fees, equipment etc.) and the accountability is very high.    I was under the impression most of the clubs operated this way.

Unless you have the actual club budget, which would be a rarity, then I don't see how you can say accountability is high. Clubs are only required to file vague, general documents - meaning that there is alot of room for shenanigans. If you want to know exactly where the money you spend on USYS, WYS, District, Association, or your club goes, good luck in finding it. You have no legal right to know, and few organizations will disclose any details beyond the minimum legal requirements. But if you play on the team where I am treasurer, you will know exactly where every penny of your money was spent. One of the things that drives up soccer costs is the lack of accountability when all costs are through the club.

Why generalize everything?  Some on this post actually have clubs who are accountable to their members.  We distribute our district financials every meeting and have an audit of the check book done during the meeting.  We have a budget done every year.  I will agree that if you are with a club that doesn't put together a budget that is approved by a board of directors who are voted into place by the membership, then I would be worried.  

Presumably all clubs do that. The question is whether they make that budget available to the parents paying the bills. If your club does that, then sincere congratulations. Most that I am familiar with do not. How about it? How many here can post a link to your club's actual itemized income and expenditures for the past year? As I said, I do know of one club doing that but I don't think it is common. I'd love to be proven wrong. Club accounts have to account for every penny - $8.60 for hot dog buns, $450 for tournament, $412 coach airfare etc.

[footie fan]

Unless you have the actual club budget, which would be a rarity, then I don't see how you can say accountability is high. Clubs are only required to file vague, general documents - meaning that there is alot of room for shenanigans. If you want to know exactly where the money you spend on USYS, WYS, District, Association, or your club goes, good luck in finding it. You have no legal right to know, and few organizations will disclose any details beyond the minimum legal requirements. But if you play on the team where I am treasurer, you will know exactly where every penny of your money was spent. One of the things that drives up soccer costs is the lack of accountability when all costs are through the club.



Triple
[/quote]

Triple Play,
Our audit and budget were available for review on the club website.   Although I don't get to see actual coaches salaries, I got to see the entire bucket that salaries came out of.
I thought that was pretty transparent.

[Soccer Wonk]

Well, as I see it, as a parent that is paying the fees, the club therefore is completely transparent.  If I or any other parent walk into a club that is funded by parents, and ask for spending information, it is the board's responsibility to provide that to the parents.  

I'm pretty sure the board has no legal responsibility to provide that to parents. I have seen some do it, but it is the exception. Most non-profits, soccer clubs included, will steer you to the publicly available mandatory filings (which don't really say anything).

Chapter 24 of the Revised Code of Washington.
Declarations as to the organization's governance and disclosure policies, as listed on IRS Form 990.

[tripleplay]

Well, as I see it, as a parent that is paying the fees, the club therefore is completely transparent.  If I or any other parent walk into a club that is funded by parents, and ask for spending information, it is the board's responsibility to provide that to the parents.  

I'm pretty sure the board has no legal responsibility to provide that to parents. I have seen some do it, but it is the exception. Most non-profits, soccer clubs included, will steer you to the publicly available mandatory filings (which don't really say anything).

Chapter 24 of the Revised Code of Washington.
Declarations as to the organization's governance and disclosure policies, as listed on IRS Form 990.

Requirements are minimal. I believe in the annual meeting they have to have a presentation from the treasurer that includes some kind of vague summary information. Auditing is another irrelevancy. Simple fact is that a $1 million club budget is going to have a lot more hands in the till than a $20,000 team budget. You want accountability, keep the money as close to home as possible. I'm not saying that graft is the ONLY reason clubs like big budgets - they also allow redistributing money from parent B to parent A for the alleged greater good. e.g. everyone pays the same coaching fee, but the "A" team coach costs triple what the "C" team coach costs. Not saying that's wrong per se, but it's information that the "C" team parents should know, but usually don't.

[footie fan]

Triple,
The problem with the 20k team budget is that it often underestimates costs and then you get "nickled and dimed" to a 30k team budget and the parents have to buck up at the end of the year.

Clubs do a better job of economizing due to size, and the increased number of hands provides security.  I don't know how many times in the old days, when a coach was also the treasurer and collector, there were accusations of improper fund use.   Usually there wasn't any true papertrail to prove innocence or guilt.  We still have individuals that game the system, but in the clubs it usually gets caught and the authorities become involved. 

I think clubs that do the budget, collection and are transparent (when run by a parent board) are better than a team run by one or two individuals. The controls just aren't there.

[Driver]

Our club has a budget, financials are passed out on a regular basis and any member can see the books -