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[tripleplay]

i am new here as well, why do people complain about a team playing up a year? Individual players do it all the time. I know this is the first year I am having my son play at his age simply because there comes a point with puberty that the boys 1 year up start getting a little too big and not worth the injury risk.

Despite all the lip service given to principles like development and like vs. like, people care about status and there is a long history of equating team status with division placement. Playing up is seen as devaluing at-age divisions. Is it sensible to tie a team's worth to who they happen to play? No, but human nature nonetheless.

[English1]

What do they learn? That Crossfire apparently needs to guage its players better at younger ages and figure out which should be playing a year up. This 01Black team should clearly be in a u11 division....

Nice props for the little WPFC g'01 black crew. They are very fun to watch. They have done well in division 2 and are going to end up without a fear of relegation.  Once again Joe Birklid (last years wpfc b99 b coach) has a disciplined well coached bunch of kids. 

[tripleplay]

What do they learn? That Crossfire apparently needs to guage its players better at younger ages and figure out which should be playing a year up. This 01Black team should clearly be in a u11 division....

Nice props for the little WPFC g'01 black crew. They are very fun to watch. They have done well in division 2 and are going to end up without a fear of relegation.  Once again Joe Birklid (last years wpfc b99 b coach) has a disciplined well coached bunch of kids. 

How did they manage to arrange what the Crossfire boys were unable to manage? Did this team play together last year as U9s in GU10?

[lester]

Lester,
Your info is out of date. At 9v9 u10, all of the teams are grouped together in one horribly mismatched division. At other ages, the promotion policies are liberal. For example, at u13 half of the div2 teams were div1 teams in the past few years. The idea of like v like has essentially been scrapped in favor of giving everyone a chance to be div1 for a while.

U10?   U10 was added in by RCL clubs in the last couple of years to increase income and recruit for multiple teams at U11.   They have nothing to do with relegation/promotion, or even the player pyramid.

[anyudes]

U10?   U10 was added in by RCL clubs in the last couple of years to increase income and recruit for multiple teams at U11.   They have nothing to do with relegation/promotion, or even the player pyramid.

They didn't but they do now.

[eastofthe206]

in response to lester:  I get so confused as to the chronology...

...wasn't there a huge thread not so long ago, maybe six months or longer, that asserted the RCL clubs were putting in U-10 and U-9 in response to the competitive pressures asserted by the nascent US  Club?  the imminent footsteps of PSPL?

The air of conspiracy gets so thick.  What really came first?  chicken? egg?

dang if I know...

[lester]

in response to lester:  I get so confused as to the chronology...

...wasn't there a huge thread not so long ago, maybe six months or longer, that asserted the RCL clubs were putting in U-10 and U-9 in response to the competitive pressures asserted by the nascent US  Club?  the imminent footsteps of PSPL?

The air of conspiracy gets so thick.  What really came first?  chicken? egg?

dang if I know...

There's no conspiracy, just business.
The RCL already had those ages playing up at U11.  They'd been adding younger and younger toddlers for years.  They kept it under cover because it was contrary to the 'best practices' for youth development, in fact, it goes contrary to Gary White's long term player development plan.
It had nothing to do with the 15 or 20 teams playing in the PSPL.  The better RCL clubs will get the best from the PSPL by U13 or U14, regardless of who did the early training.   How was that a threat?  It benefits them except in the pocket book.
It also had nothing to do with player selection, RCLs aren't any better at identifying potential U17 players at 9 than anyone else is.
 
It's all about the easy $$ that parents of 8 and 9 year olds will pay.   Ask your DOC what the retention rate is for U11s at U16.

Like I said, every new group of RCL parents question the same things, there will be a thread about it next year, too.

[chadliz]

Retention rate of 11 year olds in any sport at 16 is poor.  I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape about what clubs choose to offer, don't support it.  There are many people (of which I am obviously one) who want a higher level of play than rec at earlier than U-11 and am happy to pay for it. 
I wish it was like when I was a kid and you played a different sport every season etc. but those days are going away. 

[tripleplay]

Lester,
There are many, many more u10s/u9s in RCL clubs than there used to be. It's simply much more fun to play at age.

It's not about identifying U16 players, it's about creating players who will have a decent first touch when they are U16. Playing the sport well is also more fun. 3 months of Dad coaching during the prime development years doesn't get you there reliably.

And back to your original comment, if players switch clubs as they get older I'm not sure it's more than it ever was, but it is certainly not because Division 1 is closed to a few clubs. Just the opposite. Every team is Division1 at U10, and nearly every RCL club rotates through the division in later years.

The system that you defend (no one learns skills, everyone plays kick and run, and "elite" just means you're fast) didn't disappear. People who want that can still play that way. But now there is a higher level, too, for people who want to put in the time to learn how to control the ball.

[EWSoccer64]

Lester,
There are many, many more u10s/u9s in RCL clubs than there used to be. It's simply much more fun to play at age.

BECAUSE THE RCL CLUBS NEVER HAD U-9s AND U-10s IN THE PAST.   THIS IS A RECENT, MONEY AND POWER DRIVEN OCCURANCE.   TRY TO BE MORE FACTUAL.

It's not about identifying U16 players, it's about creating players who will have a decent first touch when they are U16. Playing the sp
And back to your original comment, if players switch clubs as they get older I'm not sure it's more than it ever was, but it is certainly not ort well is also more fun. 3 months of Dad coaching during the prime development years doesn't get you there reliably.
WELL, MAYBE IF YOU ARE THE DAD AND WHERE YOU ARE. 
because Division 1 is closed to a few clubs.
MORE BS!  THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS NOW DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT.
 Just the opposite. Every team is Division1 at U10, and nearly every RCL club rotates through the division in later years.
AS WAS ALREADY POINTED OUT, WHAT IS THE SEEDING AT U-10?
The system that you defend (no one learns skills, everyone plays kick and run, and "elite" just means you're fast) didn't disappear. ERR, YOU ARE DOING IT AGAIN, TP.  CREATING A STRAWMAN AND PUTTING WORDS IN OTHERS MOUTHS.  TYPICAL.
People who want that can still play that way. But now there is a higher level, too, for people who want to put in the time to learn how to control the ball.

THERE ALWAYS WAS, TP, THERE ALWAYS WAS.  IT IS CALLED PUTTING THE TIME IN.  DOESN'T HALF TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE MOST OVERPRICED COACH IN KING COUNTY, EITHER.

[tripleplay]

  They'd been adding younger and younger toddlers for years.  They kept it under cover because it was contrary to the 'best practices' for youth development, in fact, it goes contrary to Gary White's long term player development plan.

It's an aside, but you also don't seem to be up on what is happening with the recommendations. For example, US Soccer's old "best practices" contradicts US Soccer's new coaching guide in many places. But according to the latter document, here is what U10s are supposed to be able to do at the end of the year:
1. Be efficient in 1 v 1 situations
2. Apply basic attacking principles
3. Peform coordinated movements at speed.

Maybe you are surrounded by  super-talented kids who can do these things without practice or coaching, but in my neck of the the woods most kids would need a lot of practice to get there - in fact more than most RCL dev programs offer. But at least it's a start.

[tripleplay]

THERE ALWAYS WAS, TP, THERE ALWAYS WAS.  IT IS CALLED PUTTING THE TIME IN.  DOESN'T HALF TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE MOST OVERPRICED COACH IN KING COUNTY, EITHER.

Correction. There always were a few people who thrived despite the system because of chance family connections to a soccer enthusiast, or because they had off-the-charts talent. Now the system is at least somewhat helpful. Overpriced? Probably. Then offer something as good for less.

[EWSoccer64]

THERE ALWAYS WAS, TP, THERE ALWAYS WAS.  IT IS CALLED PUTTING THE TIME IN.  DOESN'T HALF TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE MOST OVERPRICED COACH IN KING COUNTY, EITHER.

Correction. There always were a few people who thrived despite the system because of chance family connections to a soccer enthusiast, or because they had off-the-charts talent. Now the system is at least somewhat helpful. Overpriced? Probably. Then offer something as good for less.

tp, take the videogame controller out of your kids hads and take him outside.   put a ball down.  play barefoot with him from age 5-9.   set up an obstacle course, let him challenge himself.   go to the park with a ball and your kid and let him play with others, without an overpriced coach from some big club.   you could always do that, it is nothing new.

[SheplaysIdrive]

THERE ALWAYS WAS, TP, THERE ALWAYS WAS.  IT IS CALLED PUTTING THE TIME IN.  DOESN'T HALF TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE MOST OVERPRICED COACH IN KING COUNTY, EITHER.

Correction. There always were a few people who thrived despite the system because of chance family connections to a soccer enthusiast, or because they had off-the-charts talent. Now the system is at least somewhat helpful. Overpriced? Probably. Then offer something as good for less.

tp, take the videogame controller out of your kids hads and take him outside.   put a ball down.  play barefoot with him from age 5-9.   set up an obstacle course, let him challenge himself.   go to the park with a ball and your kid and let him play with others, without an overpriced coach from some big club.   you could always do that, it is nothing new.

Yes, that option is always available, and I use it whenever I can.   But given that 1) I never played soccer myself, and 2) my daughters coach knows exponentially more about soccer than I do, and 3) my daughter accepts coaching much better if anyone but her dad is providing it, I have absolutely no doubt that my daughter is a far better soccer player now having begun competitive soccer at U-10 than had we kept her in rec and my informal work with her.

[tripleplay]

tp, take the videogame controller out of your kids hads and take him outside.   put a ball down.  play barefoot with him from age 5-9.   set up an obstacle course, let him challenge himself.   go to the park with a ball and your kid and let him play with others, without an overpriced coach from some big club.   you could always do that, it is nothing new.

Agree that that is a good value. Yet lots of people, all having that as an option, are STILL buying what clubs have to offer. Your assignment is to figure out why. Only then will you be able to comment intelligently.

[EWSoccer64]

The reason why TP is regarded as a troll is because he really does not know much about soccer.  Hence his reliance on his stats like his fantasy baseball league.

tp, take the videogame controller out of your kids hads and take him outside.   put a ball down.  play barefoot with him from age 5-9.   set up an obstacle course, let him challenge himself.   go to the park with a ball and your kid and let him play with others, without an overpriced coach from some big club.   you could always do that, it is nothing new.

Agree that that is a good value. Yet lots of people, all having that as an option, are STILL buying what clubs have to offer. Your assignment is to figure out why. Only then will you be able to comment intelligently.

[English1]

What do they learn? That Crossfire apparently needs to guage its players better at younger ages and figure out which should be playing a year up. This 01Black team should clearly be in a u11 division....

Nice props for the little WPFC g'01 black crew. They are very fun to watch. They have done well in division 2 and are going to end up without a fear of relegation.  Once again Joe Birklid (last years wpfc b99 b coach) has a disciplined well coached bunch of kids. 

How did they manage to arrange what the Crossfire boys were unable to manage? Did this team play together last year as U9s in GU10?

Three played together last year and stayed at u10 this year.  Whatever you might say, the Coach teaches fundamentals, they have fun and respect him and he teaches a work ethic like no other...

[Turner b1kr]

What do they learn? That Crossfire apparently needs to guage its players better at younger ages and figure out which should be playing a year up. This 01Black team should clearly be in a u11 division....

Nice props for the little WPFC g'01 black crew. They are very fun to watch. They have done well in division 2 and are going to end up without a fear of relegation.  Once again Joe Birklid (last years wpfc b99 b coach) has a disciplined well coached bunch of kids.  

How did they manage to arrange what the Crossfire boys were unable to manage? Did this team play together last year as U9s in GU10?

Three played together last year and stayed at u10 this year.  Whatever you might say, the Coach teaches fundamentals, they have fun and respect him and he teaches a work ethic like no other...

Xfire BU10 Black - 6 played together last year on the same U10 team for xfire, all of them played last year with Xfire, and for some it's their 3rd year playing U10 for xfire.  

[EWSoccer64]

Shep,
As the radio ad says "You don't have to be perfect to be a perfect parent".   In this discussion, TP raised up the issue of developing a good first touch.  Doing so requires time much more than any refined coaching.  It requires touches on the ball, particularly recieving the ball from a variety of angles and forces and vectors.   Which is what "free play" is great at teaching.    (We can go back later to discuss how TP has once again shown his lack of knowledge about the sport and about learning it by using this example as a reason to be part of a high priced club at an early age).   
Yes, there are coaching techniques that can help.   Playing barefoot soccer is a great learning tool for many things for instance, but one that the Anglo-American coaching mafia eschews.  But primarily, to develope a good first touch is to learn how to recieve balls while moving.   And that is doing it, more than anything else.   Even if you cannot deliver a ball all that accurately, taking your kid to the park and setting up a small course where he has to recieve the ball, go around a single obstacle and then hit a small target with his pass is fabulous training.  Especially since your delivery will be different every time due to your lack of skill.
   As for your "not knowing", an e-mail to your association director fo development/head coach, to a local HS coach, to a local RCL DoC or even a local select level coach should get you an early response about ideas and suggestions.  I have yet to meet a coach who fails to respond to a parent who has called or e-mailed and asked for advice.   Further, to my experience, most library systems have some soccer coaching books and videos.  And then there is the internet.  There are a host of free sites and blogs that have advice, training systems, exercises, and so on that are readily available for free.    Trying to reinvent the wheel yourself is "so 1980s", to quote one of my kids.   If you need more help or suggestions, feel free to PM me.

No TP, you are not allowed to PM for suggestions.  Go back to playing with your statistics with your fantasy baseball league.

THERE ALWAYS WAS, TP, THERE ALWAYS WAS.  IT IS CALLED PUTTING THE TIME IN.  DOESN'T HALF TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE MOST OVERPRICED COACH IN KING COUNTY, EITHER.

Correction. There always were a few people who thrived despite the system because of chance family connections to a soccer enthusiast, or because they had off-the-charts talent. Now the system is at least somewhat helpful. Overpriced? Probably. Then offer something as good for less.

tp, take the videogame controller out of your kids hads and take him outside.   put a ball down.  play barefoot with him from age 5-9.   set up an obstacle course, let him challenge himself.   go to the park with a ball and your kid and let him play with others, without an overpriced coach from some big club.   you could always do that, it is nothing new.

Yes, that option is always available, and I use it whenever I can.   But given that 1) I never played soccer myself, and 2) my daughters coach knows exponentially more about soccer than I do, and 3) my daughter accepts coaching much better if anyone but her dad is providing it, I have absolutely no doubt that my daughter is a far better soccer player now having begun competitive soccer at U-10 than had we kept her in rec and my informal work with her.

[eastofthe206]

I am wandering afar from the premise of the thread, but last few postings:

reminds of when mine, now a U-17, was just a little guy.  Used to have one of those little AC/DC tv's -this was before we all had laptops with a DVD player- and I'd check out the Coerver training videos from Seattle Public Library.  We would go to Ballard H.S., roll out the extension cord from the car to the field (85'), and learn/work out the Coerver drills every Sunday afternoon.  'Course, at that time, kids were in rec and frankly I didn't even know about Select, Premier, RCL, etc.  We just thought it was fun!

I really needed those videos...didn't personally have a clue about what to do to make practice away from the games interesting.

Nothing against RCL, God knows I've drunk the Kool-Aid, but still...there are many, many ways you can train to get to the level you/you DK want to achieve.  The one thing you can't train, or educate, is desire.  That is the one thing I see that separates the best from all the other players - drive and desire.  

[drarcher]

I'll add to EWsoccer64's list - Go take the course for your F license or E license (or even better a youth diploma through the NSCAA). You will learn the basics and really at the younger ages that is all you need. I am amazed that people pay big money for a U10 or under coach as really it is just basics that should be given to lay a foundation. There might be some value as the kids get older but not much at the younger age groups.

Heck, go find a U16 kid and pay him $20 to show you and your kid some basics. This isn't difficult stuff at that age group, if you have any coordination what-so-ever you should be able to perform well enough to teach your kid. ALso remember that your mistakes will actually help him as you don't want to train him with perfect service everytime he gets the ball.

[chadliz]

This of course has drifted off topic, but one more point.  If you want your child to play at a "higher" level and I guess I fall in that camp, there are very few kids(I would guess none) that are going to show up to a "top" club at U-11 and be able to compete while only playing rec and backyard barefoot soccer.  It isn't the reality of what's happening, right or wrong it is what the system is.  Crossfire has 14 under ten teams on the boys side (pspl and RCL) of kids to choose from when selecting U-10.  As was mentioned earlier, all of the kids who are on U-10 top teams will have played at least one year, most two for the club already. 
Most other clubs will be creating younger programs (SU, WPFC, FC Alliance, Tyncastle, Gunners) I know already have some version) in order to attract the many "young" players/families who are wanting more than rec.  This isn't my opinion, it's just what is happening. 

[SheplaysIdrive]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Believe me, I have spent hundreds of hours working with her since she first took an interest in the sport at around age 7, and still do now at age 12.  I remember taking her to the playshed and just kicking the ball off the wall with her for hours when she was in 1st grade.  The middle school coach noticed us there all the time and told me she works harder than his players.  I read several books and tried several videos, including Coerver.  Personally, I liked the SoccerU videos the best.  All that time with the ball is invaluable.
  
My comment about the benefits of competitive soccer is not meant to discount the value of the informal practice time.  It is a necessary condition of becoming an accomplished soccer player.  But learning the game from a great coach, and putting her skills to the test under the intense pressure that only high-level competition provides, are also necessary conditions.  The latter is what I was referring to when I said I was certain that she is a much better soccer player having played competitively since U10.

[tripleplay]

EW, some more good ideas! Good for you! Yet lots of people, all having these as an option, are STILL buying what clubs have to offer. Your assignment is to figure out why. Only then will you be able to comment intelligently. Apply yourself! Come on - others are actually giving you the answer in this thread. You're so close!

[tripleplay]

This of course has drifted off topic, but one more point.  If you want your child to play at a "higher" level and I guess I fall in that camp, there are very few kids(I would guess none) that are going to show up to a "top" club at U-11 and be able to compete while only playing rec and backyard barefoot

I think you are overstating things a bit. Theoretically a player could achieve a high level doing the things EW suggests (after all we didn't always have dev programs and produced some good players). The total amount of hours in most dev programs, though far greater than rec, is small compared to the potential amount of hours. In his autobiography Pele claims to have played soccer every day - typical dev programs are probably around 100 days per year, and even the most ambitious is probably less than 200.

The real point is that playing in a dev program is going to be vastly more fun for the motivated soccer player than playing rec or playing with Dad. Only the out of touch like EW see the Crossfires as something to be avoided. And frankly, parents know whether their kids are having fun far more accurately than whether they are "developing" according to some institution-approved timetable.

[EWSoccer64]

Already done and answered.  If you lack the wit to comprehend, go back and read through my posts on the subject again. And again, until you understand. 
Hint - leave your stat book at home.

EW, some more good ideas! Good for you! Yet lots of people, all having these as an option, are STILL buying what clubs have to offer. Your assignment is to figure out why. Only then will you be able to comment intelligently. Apply yourself! Come on - others are actually giving you the answer in this thread. You're so close!

[EWSoccer64]

Chadliz,
Take a look at the retention of Crossfire (since you cite them) on their teams from U-12 to U-16, or from U-14 to U-18.
You will find that most of the time, on most of their A teams, the players who are on the A team roster at the end of those periods were not in the club at the beginning of those periods.

Now that Crossfire has expanded its lower levels so greatly, I would expect that a greater percentage of "home grown"
products would make the Crossfire teams at the end of the cycle than previously.  It might even average 50% of the rosters, but I doubt it.   

You will find that recruitment is still the name of the game.

This of course has drifted off topic, but one more point.  If you want your child to play at a "higher" level and I guess I fall in that camp, there are very few kids(I would guess none) that are going to show up to a "top" club at U-11 and be able to compete while only playing rec and backyard barefoot soccer.  It isn't the reality of what's happening, right or wrong it is what the system is.  Crossfire has 14 under ten teams on the boys side (pspl and RCL) of kids to choose from when selecting U-10.  As was mentioned earlier, all of the kids who are on U-10 top teams will have played at least one year, most two for the club already. 
Most other clubs will be creating younger programs (SU, WPFC, FC Alliance, Tyncastle, Gunners) I know already have some version) in order to attract the many "young" players/families who are wanting more than rec.  This isn't my opinion, it's just what is happening. 

[Bman]

let me add  a few facts to the situation.  First off I have numerous kids at crossfire.  One of them was on that u-10 team that played u-11 and won the state cup.  4 of those players this year are now on the b team.  2 players were told to stay on the u-10 a team by the coach.  One player is leaving to go to a new club this month.  One is trying to leave but has issues with money(owing the club).  So the retention rate??  the new kids did not come from crossfire. One came from WPFC's a- team because of the coach.  (Black).   The u-12 now u-13 took only one player from the b team and he rides the bench.  If you want to be on an a-team you have to go to another club.  I am not saying this is any diffrent then other major clubs since I have been at the other (big) boy also.  There is more politics in youth soccer then in washington DC.  EPD- nother situation.  Coaches kids get selected and some do not even have to show up to tryouts???  Reference the coach above.   Coaches are selected how???  I played high school football in texas and it is hard to have politics when you get run over on the field but club directors kids get on a-teams ? not based on skill not crossfire the other big boy!  I hired a College assistant coach from one of the major schools in washington and we talk about all the politics all the time.  We wonder why the majority of the male best athlets go to other sports?   

[EWSoccer64]

Bman,
The Sounders taking over and running the boys side of ODP and changing it into the Sounders Academy and EDP was supposed to change all that.  For a while, I was thinking it had.   Sounds like the situation is reverting to the same old, same old.

As far as your comments on the club situation, I never expected it to change at any of the Big Clubs. 

[chadliz]

You guys are acting like recruitment doesn't happen in other youth sports.  Take a look at AAU basketball, kids are getting pulled all over, most times right in front of coaches.  Many kids are getting high school paid for in private schools for various sports, how is this any different?  When you are going to attempt to play at a top club you had better be aware that your spot isn't yours for life because you made the U-12 team.  I wouldn't want it any other way, I am sure it hurts to get cut, but that is one of the many life lessons that sports teach.  Kids coming and going is not in any way exclusive to soccer or Crossfire.  I don't understand why people are putting the spotlight on them.  Show me a club that has 80% of their 12 year old roster still together at 18 and my guess would be they are not very good.  Kids move on/mature/move to other sports, it's the nature of the beast.