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[sully v]

The RCL DoC's met and have reversed their decision and will allow the GU-14 Girls Ranger Blue Team to move up from Division 5 to Division 4 for the Spring Season.  I deeply appreciate their willingness to reconsider their decision--in my book the RCL is working hard to be fair and equitable.  I want to thank the Washington Youth Soccer State President, Doug Andreassen for his e-mails, advice, and concern.  I want to also thank our DoC Dave Brown for his hard work on our behalf, plus Todd Lincoln.  Our ladies, coach, and parents are so excited--see you on the pitch.

P.S.  I also need to thank all of YOU on this forum for your support, posts, and hits--you guys are the best!

[Squash]

The RCL DoC's met and have reversed their decision and will allow the GU-14 Girls Ranger Blue Team to move up from Division 5 to Division 4 for the Spring Season.  I deeply appreciate their willingness to reconsider their decision--in my book the RCL is working hard to be fair and equitable.  I want to thank the Washington Youth Soccer State President, Doug Andreassen for his e-mails, advice, and concern.  I want to also thank our DoC Dave Brown for his hard work on our behalf, plus Todd Lincoln.  Our ladies, coach, and parents are so excited--see you on the pitch.

thank us for calling them retards....... haha

[ImaginThat]

   Congrats !  Remember tho it took a sqeaky wheel and the possible S#@* Storm that was heading their way to make them see the light !

[Squash]

 Congrats !  Remember tho it took a sqeaky wheel and the possible S#@* Storm that was heading their way to make them see the light !

Bingo and the simple fact they couldn't see past their noses makes you wonder about the board of DOC for the RCL. They can't be all that smart if you ask me, otherwise they'd get it right to start.

[SoccerFlicks]

they couldn't see past their noses

Ahhh has Duffer been passing around his clown noses again?

[bigb]

Did WPFC white move up.

[Islander]

I just checked the schedules and there are not any changes as of yet.

[EWSoccer64]

The power of WPS strikes again.   It is amazing how people react when held up to justifiable ridicule. 

[justforfun]

Did WPFC white move up.

According to the email that we received WPFC will move up as well.

[Spam in a can]

According to the email that we received WPFC will move up as well.

DD will be very Happy

[SSFCDAD]

Its great that these kids got the promotion that they earned, 12-0.  But this go to show how screwed up the RCL really is, still no structure in place to provide proper placement in each division. The state just made a bad situation worse, what will they do when every other team makes their case for being promoted?  I  wouldn't be so quick to hand out the praise and thank you's! 

[footie fan]

SSSFCDAD, or should we now say PSSDAD,
Nice try hitting on the RCL.  Whenever you have a league of this size and complexity, there are going to be errors.  Even the Coast Soccer League in Cal, has an appeals process for resolving these issues, and believe me they do come up every year.

The proof of the success is how the league responds to these appeals, and in this case it appears that they did so in a manner that resolved the perceived slight (I don't know enough about the teams at this level to decide if they really should have been promoted or not, but there sure is a question if the league sizes were realigned). I'll leave it up to the experts that are running the league.

As for there being no structure in place, I think that is exactly what is intended.  The structure that used to be in place by WSYSA was rigid.  In the RCL a team may win a division and still not be honored with a promotion.  For example, let's say you have a top tier with 5 teams and the league is very tight, but then you have a team in division 2 that wins the division outright, but everytime they meet one of the division 1 teams (State Cup or Tournaments), they just get crushed.  I could see how they wouldn't be deserving a promotion into a league that is running very well (at least until they demonstrated they could beat some of the teams ahead of them).

Conversely, a team misplaced in a division can be moved up or down during the season in order to achieve a degree of parity.  I saw it in a couple divisions last season.

For an organization of this size to be adept is a great improvement over the pre-PDL structure.

But your teams will never really know how this league works because you've pulled out of USYSA/WYS completely and won't even get to play in the State Cup, or even be able to apply for admittance at U15.

[SSFCDAD]

Okay Footie! Keep drinkin the RCL Koolaid!!

[ImaginThat]

 The koolaide is good ehe Footie. UUUmmm Raspberry
 

[EWSoccer64]

FF,  Let's not give credit where credit is not due.  The RCL did not promote a team (12-0-0, ungodly goal differential) initially.   That was an obvious screw up.   They should have been able to catch the first time around.  That there had to be a hue and cry about it shows that there are flaws in their system.    That they caught a flaw after it was pointed out to them, and not before, does not garner all that much credit.   If they had not addressed the issue would have brought more discredit, and if they had caught it before their initial pronouncements would have shown that they were at least paying attention.
   What this episode clearly shows is that the RCL is not showing any care or attention to the "lower" divisions until a flagrant abuse is brought publicly to their attention.   That speaks incredibly poorly of them, in so many ways.   Even you will acknowledge that a similar situation would not have taken place with teams involved in the top 1-2 divisions.   That the RCL - and by extension the WSYSA - cares so little about any team or PLAYER that is not in the top divisions is a very loud declaration.  And one that brings discredit upon them.

SSSFCDAD, or should we now say PSSDAD,
Nice try hitting on the RCL.  Whenever you have a league of this size and complexity, there are going to be errors.  Even the Coast Soccer League in Cal, has an appeals process for resolving these issues, and believe me they do come up every year.

The proof of the success is how the league responds to these appeals, and in this case it appears that they did so in a manner that resolved the perceived slight (I don't know enough about the teams at this level to decide if they really should have been promoted or not, but there sure is a question if the league sizes were realigned). I'll leave it up to the experts that are running the league.

As for there being no structure in place, I think that is exactly what is intended.  The structure that used to be in place by WSYSA was rigid.  In the RCL a team may win a division and still not be honored with a promotion.  For example, let's say you have a top tier with 5 teams and the league is very tight, but then you have a team in division 2 that wins the division outright, but everytime they meet one of the division 1 teams (State Cup or Tournaments), they just get crushed.  I could see how they wouldn't be deserving a promotion into a league that is running very well (at least until they demonstrated they could beat some of the teams ahead of them).

Conversely, a team misplaced in a division can be moved up or down during the season in order to achieve a degree of parity.  I saw it in a couple divisions last season.

For an organization of this size to be adept is a great improvement over the pre-PDL structure.

But your teams will never really know how this league works because you've pulled out of USYSA/WYS completely and won't even get to play in the State Cup, or even be able to apply for admittance at U15.

[footie fan]

PSSDad and Imagine,
The koolaid is no different than the one you are drinking, only the soccer is better.  Most complaints are from those of you outside looking in.  For those of us with kids in the RCL, I figure we're pretty happy, or you'd see us move to another club.  But to do that we'd (generally) have to move to less organized programs that do not have the historical success of most RCL clubs.
Does the RCL have issues?  Yep, nearly every league does.  Placement is hard.  Did they screw this up?  yep.  But they solved the issue prior to the season.  Do I believe the complaints from the board had anything to do with it?  Nope, it's likely the DoC and coach took care of this.  Should it have happened? I don't know, let's see how they do in the higher division (if they finish at the bottom maybe not).  It's hard to place teams correctly in lower divisions.  But at least the RCL has has this problem. lower divisions.

PSSDAD, your club can't even field teams in every age/gender bracket (and is actually smaller than last year).  Perhaps you should worry more about the long term viability of your own club before ranking on a league you don't even belong to.

[SSFCDAD]

"Perhaps you should worry more about the long term viability of your own club before ranking on a league you don't even belong to."


Right on footie, Slam the Slammers! I thought this thread was about a team being wronged by the RCL.  Not sure what club your with but we will take our little club any day of the week, still fielding the best teams in the South Sound area.  The Slammers are continually getting more and more kids, that means there are more kids getting to play the game!  Maybe you should worry about your League and not start ranking on a team "you don't even belong to"!

[footie fan]

PSSdad,
Not trying to slam the slammers, just pointing out that you don't belong to the RCL, or even Washington Youth Soccer.  As for fielding the best in the south sound, you're head is in a hole.  Your other local club grew last year and keeps adding teams, as well as being an RCL member.  Your only team of note came from Crush.

I guess what saying is:  The RCL process worked here, and I don't know why you are even involved since your club not only doesn't belong to the RCL, but also doesn't even belong to WYS.  So why does an RCL internal manner even affect you?

[Victory]

PSSdad,

I guess what saying is:  The RCL process worked here, and I don't know why you are even involved since your club not only doesn't belong to the RCL, but also doesn't even belong to WYS.  So why does an RCL internal manner even affect you?

Yes the Slammers are growing at the younger ages.  Part of the growing pain of this however is that many of the older teams are going away.  After tryouts they will only have a 2 teams U-16 or above (counting boys and girls).  Feed back I am getting is those coming into the program is it is great.  Those who have been with the old system and are going though the change (coaches, players, and parents ) are not adjusting to the changes as well. 

[Turner b1kr]

I thought this thread was about a team being wronged by the RCL. 

Isn't every thread on WPS about being wronged by the RCL or WYS?  One of the reasons the RCL DOCs meet is so DOCs can raise issues like this about proper placement and make adjustments.  And, I have a hard time believing the RCL DOCs are reading this forum and made a change based upon what was posted here.  I agree with footie, it's a good thing the RCL thinks about these things, has a process for making adjustments and is willing to do so. 

[FutbolFanatic]

Actually, this thread started out being about how the RCL corrected a mistake.  Yet like almost every other thread on this board, it was hijacked by the RCL-haters to give them yet another excuse for bashing the RCL.  RCL makes a mistake = RCL bad.  RCL corrects the mistake = RCL bad.

As far as the Slammers "growing" at the younger age groups, or any age group for that matter, that's a hard claim to make when they have no teams whatsoever at the following age groups

Boys:
U10
U11
U13
U14
U16
U17
U18

Girls
U10
U13

The only age groups where they've managed to put together two teams are Boys U15 and Girls U14 and U17.  From the lineup of teams, it looks to me like the club is dying at the younger age groups with 0 or 1 teams, and the fact that the few age groups that have two teams are older also suggests that this is a club in decline.

[ImaginThat]

PSSDad and Imagine,
The koolaid is no different than the one you are drinking, only the soccer is better.  Most complaints are from those of you outside looking in.  

And you spell out my feelings exactly, you must be getting snow at that altitude. When I originally heard that the PDL was being rolled back into State, I was all for it. Till the truth came out that nothing changed the State bent over and let the PDL take over and make the RCL. Still the same crap as before, and what did it get them but to drive away alot of teams that use to play in the State Leagues. There is no reason that there needs to be 5 divisions of the supposed best. You take your Top teams and put them in 3 divisions, all the rest get put into State Open League. But there's where your "soccer is better " gets a screwin ! Because your precious "soccer is better " B teams and a couple of A teams stuck in Open League might get their butts handed to them by some lowly non-RCL team thats paying 1/3 of what it cost to play for that fancy RCL team. But alas your attitude and money is what keeps the State heading the direction they are. And thank goodness an hour has past to give ya a lil more negative karma since you seem to rack it up pretty good  

[footie fan]

Sorry, I'm not sure how the karma thing works on this site.

I for one, didn't care about the PDL coming back into the RCL, as far as I/we were concerned we never really left WYS.

It really isn't about the number of divisions, but a set of quality controls over the teams/clubs within the leagues.  Ever since getting into the PDL/RCL, the games generally have gone on w/o a hitch.  Schedules are better and the like v. like competition is organized more efficiently than the State Leagues.  All the clubs have similar goals/make up and curriculum and they often operate as a cohesive unit for the betterment of the game.

Yes, they have excluded clubs that don't, or can't meet a criteria.  And those are the people who generally complain.

[tripleplay]

All leagues make mistakes, and most will correct them. The RCL is nothing special. Generally speaking, all of the WYS-sanctioned leagues (RCL, State, and District) do a mediocre job for two reasons: first because the leagues are granted monopoly status and teams playing in these leagues simply have no other choice within WYS. Second, because we have jumped on the bandwagon that deemphasizes results. In the global scheme of things, it doesn’t matter who wins youth soccer games, but if you want to have divisions that produce close soccer games, you better be paying attention to every game that is played.

The real victims in this story are those playing GU14 for HPFC or NWN in Division 4. Having done nothing wrong, they are punished with games in Spokane, Vancouver, Yakima and Bellingham. Fine opponents, I’m sure, but much more distant than equally fine opponents.  It’s a massive amount of waste brought to us directly by the WYS establishment responsible for setting up these leagues.

That’s where opting out starts to makes sense.  The failings of the WYS league-makers creates a potential to put together leagues that would lead to rational amounts of travel and still have good competition. The US Club competition’s own track record is unfortunately spotty – they have some age groups where they’ve achieved critical mass and done well, others that are a mess. But with the WYS monopoly leagues not even addressing the issue, the US Club leagues become the only hope.

[MuddyCleats]

Posted by Tripleplay:  "The real victims in this story are those playing GU14 for HPFC or NWN in Division 4. Having done nothing wrong, they are punished with games in Spokane, Vancouver, Yakima and Bellingham. Fine opponents, I’m sure, but much more distant than equally fine opponents.  It’s a massive amount of waste brought to us directly by the WYS establishment responsible for setting up these leagues. "

Tripleplay, I guess you haven't seen the new spring schedule for division 4.  HPFC has a home game vs. WFC Rangers of Bellingham on Feb. 12, and NWN has a home game vs WFC Rangers on March 19th.  So I guess they aren't being "punished" with the "long" drive to Bellingham after all.   And last time I checked, it was about 90 miles farther to drive to Spokane, Vancouver, and Yakima from Bellingham anyway, so I'm not real sympathetic to those who already start out in the Seattle area. 

By the way, for those of you who think the travel is so bad, you should have done more research before tryouts, or you could carpool, or don't play.  Easy to solve that problem!  But don't sign up and then figure out how much driving there really is!  Look up where all the RCL clubs are located and then decide if you really want to participate.  That's what we did.  For kids like mine who are passionate about soccer, we made the choice to participate.  It was our CHOICE.  Long road trips included. 

[tripleplay]

Posted by Tripleplay:  "The real victims in this story are those playing GU14 for HPFC or NWN in Division 4. Having done nothing wrong, they are punished with games in Spokane, Vancouver, Yakima and Bellingham. Fine opponents, I’m sure, but much more distant than equally fine opponents.  It’s a massive amount of waste brought to us directly by the WYS establishment responsible for setting up these leagues. "

Tripleplay, I guess you haven't seen the new spring schedule for division 4.  HPFC has a home game vs. WFC Rangers of Bellingham on Feb. 12, and NWN has a home game vs WFC Rangers on March 19th.  So I guess they aren't being "punished" with the "long" drive to Bellingham after all.   And last time I checked, it was about 90 miles farther to drive to Spokane, Vancouver, and Yakima from Bellingham anyway, so I'm not real sympathetic to those who already start out in the Seattle area.  

By the way, for those of you who think the travel is so bad, you should have done more research before tryouts, or you could carpool, or don't play.  Easy to solve that problem!  But don't sign up and then figure out how much driving there really is!  Look up where all the RCL clubs are located and then decide if you really want to participate.  That's what we did.  For kids like mine who are passionate about soccer, we made the choice to participate.  It was our CHOICE.  Long road trips included.  

The schedules weren't updated when I checked but the point was not specific to this season. In the fall, teams play a home and away season.

No one is faulting you for making one of a few bad choices. The choices would be better if we organized our soccer leagues in a more conventional, player-friendly fashion. By the way, when you sign up, you actually do not know what travel burden you will have to bear - that is only disclosed shortly before each season starts. My main point, though, is that no one should be punished because of their passion for soccer, including you and those on the teams I mentioned. Yet that is exactly what is happening.

[MuddyCleats]

How wouldn't a family know the travel expectations?  Visiting your club's website and viewing the teams at your player's age level yields all that information. You can look up all the other clubs' hometowns if you don't know if your child is going to make your club's A, B, or C team, so you know in advance what are all the possibilities.  Talk to your player's friends who are already on various teams in your club and talk to their parents.  Do this far in advance of tryouts.

You don't have to wait for the schedule to be able to anticipate where you are likely to have to go.  If the greatest possible distances are a deal breaker for you, then don't try out.  It's just that simple.  Our closest possible opponent is about 75 miles away, and the farthest is about 275 miles away.  Many are about 100 miles away.  Not a deal breaker for me.  And it certainly isn't a punishment.  It is a choice.  If other people think it is a punishment, don't try out!!!!!  Find a different avenue for your players to continue their passion for soccer.

Again, why would a parent be surprised or upset?  Obviously you have internet access along with the rest of us who read this forum. As I said before, if the travel is too extensive, don't tryout.  It's part of the deal.  There are recreational opportunities that don't require travel, but if your player wants to play at a more competitive level, a club in the RCL may be the right fit.

For families who live in a larger metropolitan area, choices abound.  But here in Whatcom County, our family's choice, in addition to school soccer, was either play rec soccer or try out for WFC Rangers.  We chose Rangers and have thoroughly enjoyed GU-13 and GU-14, even with away games in Spokane last year, Yakima this past fall, and all other games in the Everett or Seattle area.   If we get scheduled to go to Vancouver or Olympia or wherever next year, that's fine, too.  Not a deal breaker.

To me, it's a bit like purchasing Seahawks, Sounders, or Mariners tickets, and then being upset that you have to drive all the way to Seattle!  Get the facts first and make an informed decision.

So Sully V started out this line of postings by thanking the RCL for promoting WFC Rangers Blue from division 5 to division 4.  Somewhere along the line the replies got off track as they often do on this forum, and took a sarcastic, negative tone off topic.  If people want to bash those of us who make informed decisions before we commit, then please start your own subject line on the forum. 

[tripleplay]

Our closest possible opponent is about 75 miles away, and the farthest is about 275 miles away.  Many are about 100 miles away.  Not a deal breaker for me.  And it certainly isn't a punishment.  It is a choice.  If other people think it is a punishment, don't try out!!!!!  Find a different avenue for your players to continue their passion for soccer.

Thanks for making my case for me. You live about 40 miles from a population of 2 million, and 80-100 miles from a population of 3.5 million. You should be able to find plenty of competition in that crowd. That you don't have an option to do so is exactly the flaw in our league design that I am talking about. There are lots of things that aren't "deal breakers" - but that doesn't mean they are smart either.

The problem with your advice for people to not try out for soccer is that many people are taking it! That means we aren't tapping the interest in the sport and have fewer participants than we should. If it doesn't bother you, fine. It does bother me. Restricting the sport to people who feel meritorious about traveling 550 miles for a 90 minute Division 4 game isn't a recipe for long term success in my book.

[Soccer Wonk]

That’s where opting out starts to makes sense .... the US Club leagues become the only hope.

A troll can hide an identity, but not an agenda .... After more than a thousand posts and hijacking every thread that presented an opening, on post #1277, the troll finally spells it out.

tripleplay = US Club takes over the top level of youth soccer in NoCal, Oregon and Washington?

[tripleplay]

That’s where opting out starts to makes sense .... the US Club leagues become the only hope.

A troll can hide an identity, but not an agenda .... After more than a thousand posts and hijacking every thread that presented an opening, on post #1277, the troll finally spells it out.

tripleplay = US Club takes over the top level of youth soccer in NoCal, Oregon and Washington?

Then why am I so critical of US Club leagues here and consistently bring up a USYS (CAS) affiliate as an example of a place doing much right? Have some pride and put a little thought into your criticisms, at least!