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Author Topic: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating  (Read 1196 times)

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hulabaloo

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Has anyone else noticed that the officials for boys HS soccer don't give very many fouls for handballs?  Mabye it is the Couve area.  Maybe I'm just blind.  It seems that officials are letting a lot of handballs go.  Especially when kids are taking the balls down out of the air.  So not hands stopping a shot from going in but a kid trapping the ball and bring it down.
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ThiKuBC

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 09:24:34 AM »

You could just take your ball and go home?....
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PrideNJoy

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 11:42:18 AM »

I agree, even if 'ball to handl'......so many advantages gained chances taken away, you'd think that would at least warrant a free kick once in a while. Arm out, ball kicked, hit's hand, ball drops to defenders feet lol.   Girls side too.....very noticeable
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 12:28:05 PM »

You could just take your ball and go home?....

Why this response ThiKuBC?  I tried to write this without a complaining tone and more of an observation.  Handballs can be a tricky thing even in the big leagues.  It just seemed that blatant handballs were being given a pass.  By blatant I mean a kid intentionally using his arm to bring down a ball.  Here is a good write-up.  http://asktheref.com/Soccer/Referee/Articles/7/ Was there huge advantages even for the blatant handball?  Not really.  Is it inexperienced players?   Sometimes.  Is it missed calls?  Sometimes.  Is it inexperienced officiating?  Sometimes.  Just overall this season it seems above the norm and looks like oh just play on.  Just an observation so really reply with something better.  

If I wanted to complain I have many thoughts such as why did the center give a free kick at the edge of the corner of the 18 when the foul occurred about 10 feet away deeper and wider at a more less advantages angle.  Why did the ref call handball on the keep at the 6 yard box on a clearance attempt that went straight up and the keeper caught it.  To just twist it more he gave the free kick outside the 18 yard box?  Or how about refs seeming to give top teams with national players an easier time than the teams with definitely more inexperienced players.  A foul is a foul.  If this is what I posted first I'm fine with your response above.  You can go ahead post it again because I went on this rant.

I do take HS soccer for what it is.  I don't expect top quaility all the time.
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ThiKuBC

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 12:57:14 PM »

1. Just taking the piss.
2. Bad ref's everywhere in every league - I am a bit surprised that you are surprised at the inadequacy of the refs. Reffing throughout the America's is pathetic.
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Redkard

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 02:55:38 PM »

Maybe the referees are getting it right?

Find the 10 Directives and read the section on Handling the Ball.

Read the Advise to Referees about Handling the Ball.

It is very specific how to deal with this infraction.
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EWSoccer64

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 03:01:27 PM »

Maybe the referees are getting it right?

Not very likely!!!!

Find the 10 Directives and read the section on Handling the Ball.

Read the Advise to Referees about Handling the Ball.

It is very specific how to deal with this infraction.
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 04:14:17 PM »

Unless I'm reading them out of the wrong location I'm not sure what I'm missing.
Below are the areas that I think are pertinent.  Redkard, what I'm talking about is making a cup with the arms to chest down a ball.  Instead of chesting it they are arming the ball down.  Also a long ball (which there are many in HS) and the attacker arms the ball out of the air.  I'm talking about handing the ball out of the air.  So then it boils down to is is deliberate.  I think it is is the majority of the cases I'm seeing.  Sometimes subtle, sometimes not subtle, sometimes extremely obvious (kid sticks his hand straight up in the air to knock now a flying ball).  I'm seeing more of the taking arming the ball down as a trap.  Are you using the logic that cupping the arms to chest a ball is a natural position and the fact that it hits the arm is indidental?  Or that the player was running his arm flew up and hit the ball lucking making it fall to his feet.  What I'm seeing are not those cases.  Again so far no harm so no big deal.  It just seems to be a pattern.  I was wondering if for High School officiating was thinking that more inexperience therefore more breaks on playing the ball.  Thanks for your repsonse.  It did make me go read. :)
 
A foul is an unfair or unsafe action committed (1) by a player, (2) against an opponent or the opposing
team, (3) on the field of play, (4) while the ball is in play. Deliberate handling of the ball is committed
against the opposing team, not against a particular opponent. If any of these four requirements is not
met, the action is not a foul; however, the action can still be misconduct.

12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as "handling the ball" involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player's hand or
arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). "Deliberate contact" means that the player
could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player's arms were not in a normal playing
position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the
purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when
suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is
subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect
the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is
subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball
contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player
infringes the Law regarding handling the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in
the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.).
NOTE: In most cases in the Laws of the Game, the words "touch," "play," and "make contact with"
mean the same thing. This is not true in the case of deliberate handling, where the touch, play, or
contact by the offending player must be planned and deliberate.
12.10 RULE OF THUMB FOR "HANDLING"
The rule of thumb for referees is that it is handling if the player plays the ball, but not handling if the
ball plays the player. The referee should punish only deliberate handling of the ball, meaning only
those actions when the player (and not the goalkeeper within the ‘keeper’s own penalty area) strikes or
propels the ball with the hand or arm (shoulder to tip of fingers).
12.11 USE OF THE SHOULDER
For purposes of determining deliberate handling of the ball, the "hand" is considered to be any part of
the arm-hand from fingertip to shoulder. Using the top of the shoulder is not considered as using the
hand. (A diagram showing the area of “the hand” is shown below.)
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 04:21:45 PM »

1. Just taking the piss.
2. Bad ref's everywhere in every league - I am a bit surprised that you are surprised at the inadequacy of the refs. Reffing throughout the America's is pathetic.

Overall the Wasthington State Vnacouver area HS officiating have some issues, but besides this one issue everthing else is inconsistently being missed, let go, misunderstood whatever, for the things I think are wrong.  Last nights game for my son even though game was well in hand was painful to watch from the officiating standpoint.  I'll even say I don't think the refs were doing a deliberatley poor job last night.  It just sucked.  But for the "deliberate handling" it seemed like they have all been on the same page.  Don't call it.  If I had to rate the HS officiating I've seen I would give it a 5 out of 10 when you look at the game as a whole.  It could be worse.  But it is HS.  Most would say who cares.  :drinks:
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 04:28:12 PM »

Okay here is the directive.  I still think what I'm seeing applies as a dileberate handling of the ball.  In my terms it would be using the hands to trap a ball in the air.

Keys to Identifying Handling the Ball
There are several key criteria referees should use to determine whether contact
between a player’s hand/arm and the ball constitutes a foul for handling. Many of
the criteria have formed the foundation of referee identification of handling
offenses for years. Despite this foundation, handling criteria continue to be
applied inconsistently.
Going forward, additional criteria will need to be considered by officials in
determining if contact by the ball with the hand/arm is, in fact, a handling offense.
For example: Did the player make himself bigger?
The following 3 criteria should be the primary factors considered by the referee:
1. Making yourself bigger
This refers to the placement of the arm(s)/hand(s) of the defending player at
the time the ball is played by the opponent. Should an arm/hand be in a
position that takes away space from the team with the ball and the ball
contacts the arm/hand, the referee should interpret this contact as handling.
Referees should interpret this action as the defender “deliberately” putting
his arm/hand in a position in order to reduce the options of the opponent (like
spreading your arms wide to take away the passing lane of an attacker).
• Does the defender use his hand/arm as a barrier?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to take away space and/or the
passing lane from the opponent?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to occupy more space by extending
his reach or extending the ability of his body to play the ball thereby
benefiting from the extension(s)?
2. Is the arm or hand in an “unnatural position?”
Is the arm or hand in a position that is not normal or natural for a player
performing the task at hand.
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 04:49:46 PM »

Also ThiKuBc I didn't know what "Just taking the piss" meant.   :-[  I had to look it up in urban dictionary. LOL  So now that I know no worries and sorry for my bashing.  :angel:   So is that Candadian slang?  I have a Canadian sitting across from me here at my office but he is really Chinese.  We joke about his translations of English.  :0  I asked him and he said something like he did not understand and then he said why didn't he just tell you he was joking. :)
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ThiKuBC

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 06:11:42 PM »

taking the piss is British slang, but there are LOADS of Brit coaches here so I picked it up.
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 06:45:26 PM »

taking the piss is British slang, but there are LOADS of Brit coaches here so I picked it up.

Aren't Brits and Canucks cut from the same cloth.  ;)  Thanks for the lesson though.  Always fun to learn something new especially when it is slang.  My son just got a new coach this year.  He is a Brit so now I have something to say to him. LOL
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EWSoccer64

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 07:26:39 PM »

taking the piss is British slang, but there are LOADS of Brit coaches here so I picked it up.

Aren't Brits and Canucks cut from the same cloth.  ;)  Thanks for the lesson though.  Always fun to learn something new especially when it is slang.  My son just got a new coach this year.  He is a Brit so now I have something to say to him. LOL

When the team is screwing up by the numbers out there, tell him "it's a bit of the dog's bollocks".
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 07:37:04 PM »

taking the piss is British slang, but there are LOADS of Brit coaches here so I picked it up.

Aren't Brits and Canucks cut from the same cloth.  ;)  Thanks for the lesson though.  Always fun to learn something new especially when it is slang.  My son just got a new coach this year.  He is a Brit so now I have something to say to him. LOL

When the team is screwing up by the numbers out there, tell him "it's a bit of the dog's bollocks".

LOL  Hopefully it's a bit of the dog's bollocks for my son's HS team play against Camas tonight.
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Redkard

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 01:14:20 AM »

Thanks for clarifying the type of handball your speaking of.

Player squeezes arms in front of body, then angles chest to direct the ball in a specific direction.

One has to have a keen eye to determine if it is a hand ball or not.  Some players are better than others at it.

If I see it once or twice a game, and it "might be a handling the ball" I may not call it.  If appears to be a team tactic (a team is just trying to test me, then I will make the call. 

Usually a couple of whistles on this sneaky type of play will put a stop to it.

I hope this clarifies my earlier comment.
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Redkard.........

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justaparent

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 11:31:43 AM »

I also want to add that this scenario is all about angles.  If you see the play from straight on you can usually see the ball hit the chest and not the arms.  If you see it from an angle it makes you think it is handling the ball.  I usually let the first one go and make a point of watching extra close the next time I see the player getting ready to chest the ball.  I also make a point of talking to the player and saying something like "that is pretty close to handling" after that the arms are much wider.

It does take an experienced referee to spot this one.  I know my first couple years I called this a lot more than I should because of the position I was in (or not in as was really the case). As a coach I constantly tell my players not to volleyball chest (as I call it) or they could be giving up a free kick in a dangerous area on the field.
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hulabaloo

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Re: Are HS Boys Soccer handballs being given passes by the officiating
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011, 06:53:49 PM »

I also want to add that this scenario is all about angles.  If you see the play from straight on you can usually see the ball hit the chest and not the arms.  If you see it from an angle it makes you think it is handling the ball.  I usually let the first one go and make a point of watching extra close the next time I see the player getting ready to chest the ball.  I also make a point of talking to the player and saying something like "that is pretty close to handling" after that the arms are much wider.

It does take an experienced referee to spot this one.  I know my first couple years I called this a lot more than I should because of the position I was in (or not in as was really the case). As a coach I constantly tell my players not to volleyball chest (as I call it) or they could be giving up a free kick in a dangerous area on the field.

Thanks for your insight.
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