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[tieton]

Is anyone in charge at WYS. Are there any rules to be followed anymore or sanctioning policies at WYS or is it just a free for all.
How could the State give Seattle United  a tournament date(Aug. 5, 6 ,7) that falls on a weekend that allready had three longstanding tournaments, Federal Way Blastoff, Marysville Strawberry Classic and the Cowlitz Kickoff. I can understand these three tournaments being sanctioned on the same weekend as they are geographically distant and offer different levels of play. Allowing Seattle United to stage a tournament less than ten miles from Federal Way is terrible. Allowing a District 1 club into District 3 to compete for teams and referees on the same weekend is just wrong.
I would like to know who sanctioned this tournament. Did District 1 sanction this tournament to be played in District 3, did district 3 sanction it against one of their own clubs? Do tournaments at Starfire even get sanctioned? WYS is the final stop in the sanctioning process.
 Starfire is a great facility but lets not forget that it  really hurts clubs who do tournaments put on by volunteers to keep the cost of soccer down for their members. I doubt that most people even think about that. Support your fellow WYS clubs, they need it more than Starfire.

[EWSoccer64]

Is anyone in charge at WYS. Are there any rules to be followed anymore or sanctioning policies at WYS or is it just a free for all.
How could the State give Seattle United  a tournament date(Aug. 5, 6 ,7) that falls on a weekend that allready had three longstanding tournaments, Federal Way Blastoff, Marysville Strawberry Classic and the Cowlitz Kickoff. I can understand these three tournaments being sanctioned on the same weekend as they are geographically distant and offer different levels of play. Allowing Seattle United to stage a tournament less than ten miles from Federal Way is terrible. Allowing a District 1 club into District 3 to compete for teams and referees on the same weekend is just wrong.
I would like to know who sanctioned this tournament. Did District 1 sanction this tournament to be played in District 3, did district 3 sanction it against one of their own clubs? Do tournaments at Starfire even get sanctioned? WYS is the final stop in the sanctioning process.
 Starfire is a great facility but lets not forget that it  really hurts clubs who do tournaments put on by volunteers to keep the cost of soccer down for their members. I doubt that most people even think about that. Support your fellow WYS clubs, they need it more than Starfire.

Unless recently changed, the WSYSA sanctions all (as in every) tournament submitted to them, as long as they have the proper paperwork, are being done through an association in good standing and (used to be) have the approval of the District in which they are held.  Contrary to what some think, the state has always maintained that they do not vet tournaments as to whether or not they conflict with other tournaments, are too expensive, or even make sense.

[Old Dog]

Is anyone in charge at WYS. Are there any rules to be followed anymore or sanctioning policies at WYS or is it just a free for all.
How could the State give Seattle United  a tournament date(Aug. 5, 6 ,7) that falls on a weekend that allready had three longstanding tournaments, Federal Way Blastoff, Marysville Strawberry Classic and the Cowlitz Kickoff. I can understand these three tournaments being sanctioned on the same weekend as they are geographically distant and offer different levels of play. Allowing Seattle United to stage a tournament less than ten miles from Federal Way is terrible. Allowing a District 1 club into District 3 to compete for teams and referees on the same weekend is just wrong.
I would like to know who sanctioned this tournament. Did District 1 sanction this tournament to be played in District 3, did district 3 sanction it against one of their own clubs? Do tournaments at Starfire even get sanctioned? WYS is the final stop in the sanctioning process.
 Starfire is a great facility but lets not forget that it  really hurts clubs who do tournaments put on by volunteers to keep the cost of soccer down for their members. I doubt that most people even think about that. Support your fellow WYS clubs, they need it more than Starfire.

Unless recently changed, the WSYSA sanctions all (as in every) tournament submitted to them, as long as they have the proper paperwork, are being done through an association in good standing and (used to be) have the approval of the District in which they are held.  Contrary to what some think, the state has always maintained that they do not vet tournaments as to whether or not they conflict with other tournaments, are too expensive, or even make sense.

Correct, except the district can not deny it either. I think folks need to think of it as a notfication process instead of a aprroval process just like travel paper. Its a nofication process not an aprroval process as long as you are in "good standing".......

Yes, it might be nice if people worked together but as so many people say and point out on the web site. Open competition drives us and its about doing a good job. Folks seem to like that until it starts effecting "YOUR" club.

[goldengoal]

Is anyone in charge at WYS. Are there any rules to be followed anymore or sanctioning policies at WYS or is it just a free for all.
How could the State give Seattle United  a tournament date(Aug. 5, 6 ,7) that falls on a weekend that allready had three longstanding tournaments, Federal Way Blastoff, Marysville Strawberry Classic and the Cowlitz Kickoff. I can understand these three tournaments being sanctioned on the same weekend as they are geographically distant and offer different levels of play. Allowing Seattle United to stage a tournament less than ten miles from Federal Way is terrible. Allowing a District 1 club into District 3 to compete for teams and referees on the same weekend is just wrong.
I would like to know who sanctioned this tournament. Did District 1 sanction this tournament to be played in District 3, did district 3 sanction it against one of their own clubs? Do tournaments at Starfire even get sanctioned? WYS is the final stop in the sanctioning process.
 Starfire is a great facility but lets not forget that it  really hurts clubs who do tournaments put on by volunteers to keep the cost of soccer down for their members. I doubt that most people even think about that. Support your fellow WYS clubs, they need it more than Starfire.

Unless recently changed, the WSYSA sanctions all (as in every) tournament submitted to them, as long as they have the proper paperwork, are being done through an association in good standing and (used to be) have the approval of the District in which they are held.  Contrary to what some think, the state has always maintained that they do not vet tournaments as to whether or not they conflict with other tournaments, are too expensive, or even make sense.

Correct, except the district can not deny it either. I think folks need to think of it as a notfication process instead of a aprroval process just like travel paper. Its a nofication process not an aprroval process as long as you are in "good standing".......

Yes, it might be nice if people worked together but as so many people say and point out on the web site. Open competition drives us and its about doing a good job. Folks seem to like that until it starts effecting "YOUR" club.

generally Association members work together to make sure the tournaments dont conflict- generally it works well, but not always

[Futsal]

Correct, except the district can not deny it either. I think folks need to think of it as a notfication process instead of a aprroval process just like travel paper. Its a nofication process not an aprroval process as long as you are in "good standing".......

WYS decision in the 2002 Grievance between two Associations states that you cannot conduct soccer related activites, which a tournament would be, in another Association without approval of that Association. 

It is also part of the record ... "any game, practice, social event, meeting or any other soccer related activites within another association's area without the approval of the other association, would be a non-sanctioned event and, therefore, would not be covered by WSYSA insurance."

District 6 has a meeting where all tournaments for the year are placed on a calendar before submitting them to WYS.  If two Associations agree that their events can be on the same weekend then it put on the calendar and when the electronic application comes past the District it is signed and sent to WYS.

Soon our tournaments will be as watered down as our league are now ...

[ThatJustHappened]

While I  agree that too many tournaments on the same weekend can impact the number of teams available per tournament & stresses the ref pool, I will however, note that all three of those tournaments do exclude higher level teams RCL div 1, 2, and some div 3 teams.  I would assume that a Seattle United tourney at Starfire would offer upper level competition as to not compete with the others with team eligibility.

[Old Dog]

Correct, except the district can not deny it either. I think folks need to think of it as a notfication process instead of a aprroval process just like travel paper. Its a nofication process not an aprroval process as long as you are in "good standing".......

WYS decision in the 2002 Grievance between two Associations states that you cannot conduct soccer related activites, which a tournament would be, in another Association without approval of that Association. 

It is also part of the record ... "any game, practice, social event, meeting or any other soccer related activites within another association's area without the approval of the other association, would be a non-sanctioned event and, therefore, would not be covered by WSYSA insurance."

District 6 has a meeting where all tournaments for the year are placed on a calendar before submitting them to WYS.  If two Associations agree that their events can be on the same weekend then it put on the calendar and when the electronic application comes past the District it is signed and sent to WYS.

Soon our tournaments will be as watered down as our league are now ...

Except starfire has been considered "open". The local club did not want to get a call everytime somebody wanted to rent a field so the above does "NOT" apply.

[EWSoccer64]

D-6 must have adopted this policy AFTER Spokane took the two dates that the Tri-Cities had been holding their tournaments on.
Freaking Thieves...........

Correct, except the district can not deny it either. I think folks need to think of it as a notfication process instead of a aprroval process just like travel paper. Its a nofication process not an aprroval process as long as you are in "good standing".......

WYS decision in the 2002 Grievance between two Associations states that you cannot conduct soccer related activites, which a tournament would be, in another Association without approval of that Association. 

It is also part of the record ... "any game, practice, social event, meeting or any other soccer related activites within another association's area without the approval of the other association, would be a non-sanctioned event and, therefore, would not be covered by WSYSA insurance."

District 6 has a meeting where all tournaments for the year are placed on a calendar before submitting them to WYS.  If two Associations agree that their events can be on the same weekend then it put on the calendar and when the electronic application comes past the District it is signed and sent to WYS.

Soon our tournaments will be as watered down as our league are now ...

[NKSoccerFan]

While I  agree that too many tournaments on the same weekend can impact the number of teams available per tournament & stresses the ref pool, I will however, note that all three of those tournaments do exclude higher level teams RCL div 1, 2, and some div 3 teams.  I would assume that a Seattle United tourney at Starfire would offer upper level competition as to not compete with the others with team eligibility.

Sort of.  In the sanctioning packet there are two parts defining the level of competition.  The first is on the WYS portion, where it says "Teams Participating will be invited from:"   and there are spots for competitive, rec, jamboree, foreign teams, etc.  Then, in the US Youth Soccer form you have Types of Teams Accepted for each age group.  This is where you see S1, S2, RT etc on the host agreement.

The definitions for each are:
Competitive = Premier D1, D2, D3 & WSYDL
Select = Select District, Inter District Leagues, CYL
Recreational = Recreational

S1 = generally a team which competes at the highest level of play in a state or region
S2 = generally a team which competes at other than the highest level of play in a state or region
S3 = generally a team which competes in a local area or state
S4 = a team which is put together for the sole purpose of playing in a tournament or other sanctioned non-league competition, whose roster includes select players who are members of one club.
RT = a team which was formed in a random nature without regard to players’ abilities.

For the four tournaments on the weekend of Aug 5-7 we have:

Seattle United Cup - Select (S2, S3, S4, RT)
Strawberry Classic - Select, Recreational (S2, S3, RT)
Cowlitz Kickoff - Select, Recreational,
Blast-Off - Competitive, Select, Recreational (S1, S2, S3, RT)

So, you see Blast-Off as the only one looking for the highest level teams.

Now, is this binding?  Probably not.  For example, I don't think blast off would turn away a S4 team, since they take both S3 and RT teams.  I think it is more useful as a guage for the competition level for the teams comparing which tournament they wish to enter.  But very few tournaments turn teams away if they have spots available.

[ThatJustHappened]

While I  agree that too many tournaments on the same weekend can impact the number of teams available per tournament & stresses the ref pool, I will however, note that all three of those tournaments do exclude higher level teams RCL div 1, 2, and some div 3 teams.  I would assume that a Seattle United tourney at Starfire would offer upper level competition as to not compete with the others with team eligibility.

Sort of.  In the sanctioning packet there are two parts defining the level of competition.  The first is on the WYS portion, where it says "Teams Participating will be invited from:"   and there are spots for competitive, rec, jamboree, foreign teams, etc.  Then, in the US Youth Soccer form you have Types of Teams Accepted for each age group.  This is where you see S1, S2, RT etc on the host agreement.

The definitions for each are:
Competitive = Premier D1, D2, D3 & WSYDL
Select = Select District, Inter District Leagues, CYL
Recreational = Recreational

S1 = generally a team which competes at the highest level of play in a state or region
S2 = generally a team which competes at other than the highest level of play in a state or region
S3 = generally a team which competes in a local area or state
S4 = a team which is put together for the sole purpose of playing in a tournament or other sanctioned non-league competition, whose roster includes select players who are members of one club.
RT = a team which was formed in a random nature without regard to players’ abilities.

For the four tournaments on the weekend of Aug 5-7 we have:

Seattle United Cup - Select (S2, S3, S4, RT)
Strawberry Classic - Select, Recreational (S2, S3, RT)
Cowlitz Kickoff - Select, Recreational,
Blast-Off - Competitive, Select, Recreational (S1, S2, S3, RT)

So, you see Blast-Off as the only one looking for the highest level teams.

Now, is this binding?  Probably not.  For example, I don't think blast off would turn away a S4 team, since they take both S3 and RT teams.  I think it is more useful as a guage for the competition level for the teams comparing which tournament they wish to enter.  But very few tournaments turn teams away if they have spots available.

Thanks for the clarity.

In reading the Blast off page, it looks like they now are offering all applicants...which is a big change from previous year.  In years past, I know that they specifically called out who was not eligible...PDL/RCL "A" teams were not allowed to enter unless they played a year up, etc.  I personally hope that the Blast Off does not suffer significant loss of participation...it's a great tournament.

And now I'll let the smarter folks go back to discussing the nitty-gritty rules & politics      

[Spam in a can]

Somehow i just can't see wpfc and Crossfire ENCL teams showing up at the FW Blast Off.

[EWSoccer64]

Somehow i just can't see wpfc and Crossfire ENCL teams showing up at the FW Blast Off.

The problem with tournaments open to all applicants - which they do to make more money, in the short term - is that there are RCL A teams that go "slumming" just for the fun of it, to pick up silverware, give players playing time at different positions, and let subs be starters for a tournament.  When I have seen such things at tournaments, my teams have never gone back to them. 

Part of the problem set is that different teams and coaches use tournaments for different reasons.  Even the state and the CAP have used tournaments for different reasons than most people.

With the increasing numbers of different divisions there is much more room for error, it is harder to be sure that a tournament is going to be generally teams of a similar ability and competitiveness.

[Futsal]

The biggest issues with multiple tournaments in a close area will be referees.

Here in Spokane our largest tournament draws around 180 teams.  This puts a huge strain on the referee pool.

One thing that has always had me curious.

A coach from Oregon can bring his team (OYSA or US Club) to our tournament here in Spokane without having to have a WYS RMA.  I assume this is because we recognize the RMA process of OYSA or US Club.

On the other hand ... a USSF Referee from Oregon who has a OYSA RMA must first obtain a WYS RMA to referee in the same tournament.

I would like to see the USYS State Associations for Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana come up with a common RMA for referees to allow the referees the same freedom of travel as our coachs and players currently have.

  

[EWSoccer64]

Two things wrong with your idea, Futsal -
1)  It makes too much sense.
2)  It would be too easy to do.   Probably a half hour on the computer to set it up.

So, unless you propose a system where every RMA app is automatically routed to the various state YSAs for their own processing, hiring an extra person to set up parallel databases, have a specially designed PacNW Ref Badge to be issued out, and have fees associated with all of this going to some branch of all the State YSA's, plus a new document for all the refs who do this and many new hoops to jump through, it will never fly.

The biggest issues with multiple tournaments in a close area will be referees.

Here in Spokane our largest tournament draws around 180 teams.  This puts a huge strain on the referee pool.

One thing that has always had me curious.

A coach from Oregon can bring his team (OYSA or US Club) to our tournament here in Spokane without having to have a WYS RMA.  I assume this is because we recognize the RMA process of OYSA or US Club.

On the other hand ... a USSF Referee from Oregon who has a OYSA RMA must first obtain a WYS RMA to referee in the same tournament.

I would like to see the USYS State Associations for Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana come up with a common RMA for referees to allow the referees the same freedom of travel as our coachs and players currently have.

  

[EWSoccer64]

back to the issue of districts having control over the tournaments in their baliwick.   I believe it was Old Dog who commented that the districts do not  vet the tournaments other than for paperwork.  But they - so long as the districts actually continue to exist - do have the authority to disapprove a tournament if they so desire, do they not?   They simply have not been using such power for obvious reasons. 

But what really sparks my interest is the original posting on this thread, and the assumption that multiple tournaments in the same geographic area is the fault of the State and the District (s).   Since such an assumption flies in the face of historic practices by the state and the districts, it may well be the result of bad information being passed out locally.   
    Which is yet another reason for there to continue to be freedom of speech on this forum, as this is yet another case of initial bad (= incorrect)information being chased out by good (=accurate) information.  If the bad information came from someone in a position of responsibility at the complaining club, then now that person who has provided the bad info locally can be held accountable.

[goldengoal]

The biggest issues with multiple tournaments in a close area will be referees.

Here in Spokane our largest tournament draws around 180 teams.  This puts a huge strain on the referee pool.

One thing that has always had me curious.

A coach from Oregon can bring his team (OYSA or US Club) to our tournament here in Spokane without having to have a WYS RMA.  I assume this is because we recognize the RMA process of OYSA or US Club.

On the other hand ... a USSF Referee from Oregon who has a OYSA RMA must first obtain a WYS RMA to referee in the same tournament.

I would like to see the USYS State Associations for Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana come up with a common RMA for referees to allow the referees the same freedom of travel as our coachs and players currently have.

  

maybe the dont allow it because they all bought their whistles in a different state- 

[new2me]

Somehow i just can't see wpfc and Crossfire ENCL teams showing up at the FW Blast Off.

not necessarily the same as the upper ages of course, but wpfc did have their u10 developmental teams there last year, playing against other u10 teams I believe.

[Old Dog]

back to the issue of districts having control over the tournaments in their baliwick.   I believe it was Old Dog who commented that the districts do not  vet the tournaments other than for paperwork.  But they - so long as the districts actually continue to exist - do have the authority to disapprove a tournament if they so desire, do they not?   They simply have not been using such power for obvious reasons.  

With all the chatter I did something easy, went to US Youth to check on the hosting rules. I have to stand corrected as it looks as though they have made some recent changes to the rules, below are how they now read for hosting a tournament. I underlined the interest part. So for fun lets say the king of the hill and the puyallup valley kick off want to do a tournament on the same date. Meeting the guidelines below might be hard if both parties are strong willed and have good reason they don't want to move.

BTW, this is also why some clubs dual charter, if the State (or a party below) says no, the club could always get it saction under US Club.



TOURNAMENTS OR GAMES

US Youth Soccer adopts the following policies in order to assist the State Associations in addressing matters relating to hosting tournament or games.

Every State Association has control over its own rights and property. State Associations have the right to determine under uniformly applied rules when it shall sanction an event. Further, every State Association has the right to decide when and under what circumstances its interests, rights, and property can be used, including in any sanctioned activity. US Youth Soccer recognizes that for purposes of hosting tournaments or games no one has the right to take for that person, group, or entity’s own use, the rights and property of others, including those of any State Association, without the authorization of the owner, or to misrepresent or fail to disclose information so as to mislead others.  

This policy does not apply to approved league games that may cross state boundaries. This policy does not apply to the National Championship or any portion of the US Youth Soccer ODP program as far as hosting is concerned.

SECTION 1:   HOSTING ORGANIZATION DEFINITION

Hosting Organization means an organization in good standing as a member of a State Association; an Affiliate of US Youth Soccer or member thereof

[EWSoccer64]

Old Dog,
Not sure if there has been any great change, or any at all.  My impression was always that the state had the power to "disapprove" of a tournmament if they desired/thought it best.   My impression is that they had the policy that they would simply not pick and choose, that they would sanction any tournament at any time as long as the paperwork was in order and the host association was in good standing.