Topic: $170,000 (Read 2056 times)

fourflags · « **on:** October 12, 2011, 02:39:09 PM »

2009 paid compensation of Terry Fisher by Washington Youth Soccer

pondhopper · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:50:01 PM »

Q: What is the salary of the current governor of the state of Washington.

A: $166,891

Who thinks we have lost it?

cleo99 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2011, 06:22:42 PM »

I can't get your point.

anyudes · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2011, 06:39:54 PM »

I didnt know they were accepting job applications.

Sounds like a great gig!

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:59:16 PM »

Isn't that what Greggie Ion takes in from his NW Champions/NWCL ownership?

fourflags · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:05:15 PM »

Terry Fisher exact amount for 2009 $169,676

lester · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2011, 12:29:08 AM »

Volunteers did Fisher's job for over 30 years. If he isn't bringing in his salary and benefits+ in grants and sponsorships, he's a liability. That's what he was hired to do.
I'm not saying he's a bad guy, he's just not worth the money if he isn't generating the cash in-flow. Anybody can sit in meetings and nod.

My general feeling is he is chasing more teams and clubs away from WYS and depleting the coffer. Maybe that's because he has to enforce Andreassen's policies regardless of his own ideas; hard to guess about that. Hiring more employees to do his work isn't helping the matter.

Final dollars and cents states his worth regardless of the whys.

And, dollars and cents are going to be the deciding factor for all the clubs and independent teams.

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2011, 12:48:03 AM »

I'm going to quibble with Lester on a couple of his points -
1) While dollars and sense are important to the independant teams and non-RCL clubs, I think that sense is more important to them than cents. As they are closer to the players and the families, these operations see no real value to paying more, travelling more (both for practices and for games), and recieving less individual care and attention to their needs if they went into an RCL club to end up playing at the same level - or even a lower level.
I know of some people who are even willing to pay "danegeld" in order to be just left alone....
2) While there was some propaganda about how Terry Fisher was brought in because of his fundraising acumen, it is well known that his raison de' etat is to "professionalize" and "corporatize" the WYS. To be integral in doing away with the WSYSA and bringing in the "Bright New Day" of professionals running the WYS and everyone being subservient to it.
3) True, Fisher has not brought in much (any?) new money into the sponsorship funds of the WYS, to paraphrase Joe Biden "a sponsorship saved is a sponsorship created." By that mark, we should all be grateful for the remaining sponsorships of the WYS and give all due credit to Fisher for that money.
4) It is almost unfair to hold the WYS accountable for all the new, highly paid jobs they have. After all, if the did not create these new positions and pay them very well, there would be clubs in the state with bigger payrolls than they have. Then how could any official from WYS travel out of state and hold their heads up with pride? No, they would be wearing paper bags over their heads in shame....
5) El Presidente was elected on the promise that he would make the trains run on time. If none of the associations asked what the schedule would be, or what type of trains there would be, or if they would be allowed on, then that is the fault of every single association, and the District Commissioners. If you elect a dictator and give him total power, it is your fault more than his.

Quote from: lester on October 13, 2011, 12:29:08 AM

Volunteers did Fisher's job for over 30 years. If he isn't bringing in his salary and benefits+ in grants and sponsorships, he's a liability. That's what he was hired to do.
I'm not saying he's a bad guy, he's just not worth the money if he isn't generating the cash in-flow. Anybody can sit in meetings and nod.

My general feeling is he is chasing more teams and clubs away from WYS and depleting the coffer. Maybe that's because he has to enforce Andreassen's policies regardless of his own ideas; hard to guess about that. Hiring more employees to do his work isn't helping the matter.

Final dollars and cents states his worth regardless of the whys.

And, dollars and cents are going to be the deciding factor for all the clubs and independent teams.

EWDOC · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2011, 05:30:23 PM »

I always find it funny that the PSPL brings up this stuff, but doesn't make their own books transparent. At least we can find out how much TF makes because it's public. When is someone going to demand financial transparency from the PSPL, even if only for the sake of principle?

Edson Arantes · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2011, 02:44:29 PM »

This is obscene. $170K to basically be a know nothing jerk (though much stronger words come to mind).

EWDOC, a year or so ago when the salary (at that time around $160k) came up, you pointed fingers at PSPL then also, asking for transparancy.

This was after questioning if the numbers were true or not.

I guess if one cannot defend what is indefensible, point fingers elsewhere to deflect?

As a representative within WSYSA, can you tell us if you believe that he brings $170K worth of value to the members of WSYSA?

EWSoccer, after your past postings railing against the wages of the PDL DOC's, I expected more indignation from you over this. What gives?

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2011, 03:01:12 PM »

Edson, could you please create a special "sarcasm" smiley so that when I wax poeticly sarcastic, I can affix it on the bottom? That way, when I am making tongue in cheek comments, everyone can understand that I am mocking rather saluting....

Edson Arantes · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:00:37 PM »

Yeah, I understood your sarcasm. I thought that the amount of the fleecing would bring more than that from you.

Perhaps if TP had weighed in favor it would have kick started more. Then again, no one has mentioned the Lexus that he is getting free of charge, or has shown the overages on his expense account.

Piggies to the trough.

EWDOC · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:43:08 PM »

Quote from: Edson Arantes on October 18, 2011, 02:44:29 PM

This is obscene. $170K to basically be a know nothing jerk (though much stronger words come to mind).

EWDOC, a year or so ago when the salary (at that time around $160k) came up, you pointed fingers at PSPL then also, asking for transparancy.

This was after questioning if the numbers were true or not.

I guess if one cannot defend what is indefensible, point fingers elsewhere to deflect?

As a representative within WSYSA, can you tell us if you believe that he brings $170K worth of value to the members of WSYSA?

EWSoccer, after your past postings railing against the wages of the PDL DOC's, I expected more indignation from you over this. What gives?

Edson, let me try again...I don't react to postings the way you do because for one, no source for the salary is provided for all to see. So just like last time, I don't know what he makes, I don't spend my time looking, but if he does make $170K, then post the source and let the members decide if he is worth it. I don't have his job, so I won't try and pretend I know what he does on a daily basis to justify what ever amount he makes. Nor would I for anyone unless I have walked in their shoes.

But yet, just like last time, as far as PSPL transparency we still have....oh that's right, nothing....so my point is when this post is started someone associated to the PSPL, what should any educated person think? Do I hear "Hypocrite"? Do I hear "Conflict of Interest"?

If you don't think someone is worth what they are paid, then fine....but to attack WYS for what you "think" their CEO makes and not have the courage to call for transparency from the PSPL, is hypocritical at best, when that is being offered as the alternative solution.

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2011, 06:40:18 PM »

Quote from: Edson Arantes on October 18, 2011, 05:00:37 PM

Yeah, I understood your sarcasm. I thought that the amount of the fleecing would bring more than that from you.

Perhaps if TP had weighed in favor it would have kick started more. Then again, no one has mentioned the Lexus that he is getting free of charge, or has shown the overages on his expense account.

Piggies to the trough.

It's hard to get worked up about the self serving corruption in the WYS after the associations let El Presidente stack the board like he did. It could be worse though, we could have Bernie, Greg and Bobbie running the state. Then we would be paying twice as much and having to bow when we entered their presence......

lester · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2011, 01:14:28 AM »

Quote from: EWDOC on October 18, 2011, 05:43:08 PM

Edson, let me try again...I don't react to postings the way you do because for one, no source for the salary is provided for all to see. So just like last time, I don't know what he makes, I don't spend my time looking, but if he does make $170K, then post the source and let the members decide if he is worth it. I don't have his job, so I won't try and pretend I know what he does on a daily basis to justify what ever amount he makes. Nor would I for anyone unless I have walked in their shoes.

But yet, just like last time, as far as PSPL transparency we still have....oh that's right, nothing....so my point is when this post is started someone associated to the PSPL, what should any educated person think? Do I hear "Hypocrite"? Do I hear "Conflict of Interest"?

If you don't think someone is worth what they are paid, then fine....but to attack WYS for what you "think" their CEO makes and not have the courage to call for transparency from the PSPL, is hypocritical at best, when that is being offered as the alternative solution.

I don't see where you get the correlation.

The PSPL is a league, like the RCL, NWCL or the ECNL, not a State association.
If you want to play in it you pay your $300 bucks just like you do in the WYS State League. If you don't, you don't pay a dime to them. There is no master association charging a fee.

The total PSPL Fall income, based on the number of teams registered, is around $70- $80K. I have no idea where it goes but it does take a few bucks to organize and run a league.

The PSPL is a registered non-profit so I'm sure you can get all the salaries over $25K the same place that pondhopper did; it might cost you $5, but there is a source for all to see. Elizabeth Flannery reports every week what the paid employees of WYS did during the week.

fourflags · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2011, 01:25:50 AM »

2010 990 form of Washington Youth Soccer lists the compensation of Terry Fisher.

EWDOC · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:28:39 PM »

Quote from: lester on October 19, 2011, 01:14:28 AM

Quote from: EWDOC on October 18, 2011, 05:43:08 PM
Edson, let me try again...I don't react to postings the way you do because for one, no source for the salary is provided for all to see. So just like last time, I don't know what he makes, I don't spend my time looking, but if he does make $170K, then post the source and let the members decide if he is worth it. I don't have his job, so I won't try and pretend I know what he does on a daily basis to justify what ever amount he makes. Nor would I for anyone unless I have walked in their shoes.

But yet, just like last time, as far as PSPL transparency we still have....oh that's right, nothing....so my point is when this post is started someone associated to the PSPL, what should any educated person think? Do I hear "Hypocrite"? Do I hear "Conflict of Interest"?

If you don't think someone is worth what they are paid, then fine....but to attack WYS for what you "think" their CEO makes and not have the courage to call for transparency from the PSPL, is hypocritical at best, when that is being offered as the alternative solution.

I don't see where you get the correlation.

The PSPL is a league, like the RCL, NWCL or the ECNL, not a State association.
If you want to play in it you pay your $300 bucks just like you do in the WYS State League. If you don't, you don't pay a dime to them. There is no master association charging a fee.

The total PSPL Fall income, based on the number of teams registered, is around $70- $80K. I have no idea where it goes but it does take a few bucks to organize and run a league.

The PSPL is a registered non-profit so I'm sure you can get all the salaries over $25K the same place that pondhopper did; it might cost you $5, but there is a source for all to see. Elizabeth Flannery reports every week what the paid employees of WYS did during the week.

lester, I understand your point....I'll rephrase...most of the teams that play in the PSPL, do so instead of the old state league. My point was that least you know where the state league money was going, it's revenue to Washington Youth Soccer and WYS uses this revenue among other sources to run their organization. It wasn't used to just run a league.

The PSPL is just a league, but my point was that no one knows where the money goes, it clearly doesn't support a bigger organization....you pointed out an estimated revenue, but as someone who runs a league myself, I can tell you that we run a much bigger league at a fraction of the cost. So again, where is the $$$ going???

So since fourflags is part of the PSPL leadership, my point is he throws out the total compensation package (not the salary) of TF to get people in a ruckus, but TF doesn't run a league, he runs a state organization. So your point that they are not one and the same is my point, but I laugh because as I said, at least you can get financial information about WYS, I have looked, there isn't anything public on PSPL. Perhaps fourflags won't mind posting something for all to see to show financial transparency?

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:08:36 PM »

>>>Perhaps fourflags won't mind posting something for all to see to show financial transparency?<<<<

Don't hold your breath.

tripleplay · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2011, 05:31:59 PM »

Quote from: EWDOC on October 20, 2011, 07:28:39 PM

So since fourflags is part of the PSPL leadership, my point is he throws out the total compensation package (not the salary) of TF to get people in a ruckus, but TF doesn't run a league, he runs a state organization.

In fact, in WYS other people are paid to run the leagues, so the total outlay is larger than the one person's compensation quoted. The PSPL and WYS have the same legal requirements for transparency. Neither organization seems to offer more transparency than legally required, but in the case of the PSPL the total amount is small so why dwell on it (except to shift attention from WYS excesses)? If you have an idiot running a league for free, it's no bargain.

Edson Arantes · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2011, 06:19:59 PM »

EWDOC, nothing but tilting at windmills. District commissioners used to be concerned with what the expenses of WSYSA were, now apparently they are just concerned about finding out what the competitors expenses are. Perhaps it is just an indication of how little say the Districts have since the change in the bylaws. I think it would be more effective to take on why the PSPL came about and why it has grown (that would take some reflection on WSYSA) instead of playing defense.

You won't answer the question, you'll just deflect to the PSPL- but I'll state the answer. TF has done nothing to justify the tremendous increased expense for his salary (more than double over his predecessor, and $15K over his starting salary).

EWDOC · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2011, 01:19:28 AM »

Quote from: Edson Arantes on October 21, 2011, 06:19:59 PM

EWDOC, nothing but tilting at windmills. District commissioners used to be concerned with what the expenses of WSYSA were, now apparently they are just concerned about finding out what the competitors expenses are. Perhaps it is just an indication of how little say the Districts have since the change in the bylaws. I think it would be more effective to take on why the PSPL came about and why it has grown (that would take some reflection on WSYSA) instead of playing defense.

You won't answer the question, you'll just deflect to the PSPL- but I'll state the answer. TF has done nothing to justify the tremendous increased expense for his salary (more than double over his predecessor, and $15K over his starting salary).

First of all, "nothing but tilting at windmills?"...that's pretty funny, haven't heard that one...

Not sure where you are going with the District Commissioners thing, but I am not one of them if that is what you are thinking. I'll simplify once more. If you think TF isn't worth it, than fine - shout it from the roof tops...but at least you have the information available to make that opinion. As a matter of fact, in earlier posts in discussing the annual meeting, we had the entire budget online to review and criticize as I recall.

But I don't know to many people who think that an amount estimated at close to $100K annually is a "small amount" and considering this isn't the first PSPL season and other than paying for an application so you can feed teams into it to create pairings, that's a lot of money unaccounted for, and despite the tales spun on this website, you can't find anything online in regards to their financials.

So I have no problem if you want to attack WYS, TF, or what ever, but don't be a hypocrite, if the PSPL is your answer to all things, than at least have the courage to demand the same integrity from them that you insist is missing from WYS.

anyudes · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2011, 03:51:59 AM »

Quote from: EWDOC on October 22, 2011, 01:19:28 AM

Quote from: Edson Arantes on October 21, 2011, 06:19:59 PM
EWDOC, nothing but tilting at windmills. District commissioners used to be concerned with what the expenses of WSYSA were, now apparently they are just concerned about finding out what the competitors expenses are. Perhaps it is just an indication of how little say the Districts have since the change in the bylaws. I think it would be more effective to take on why the PSPL came about and why it has grown (that would take some reflection on WSYSA) instead of playing defense.

You won't answer the question, you'll just deflect to the PSPL- but I'll state the answer. TF has done nothing to justify the tremendous increased expense for his salary (more than double over his predecessor, and $15K over his starting salary).

First of all, "nothing but tilting at windmills?"...that's pretty funny, haven't heard that one...

Not sure where you are going with the District Commissioners thing, but I am not one of them if that is what you are thinking. I'll simplify once more. If you think TF isn't worth it, than fine - shout it from the roof tops...but at least you have the information available to make that opinion. As a matter of fact, in earlier posts in discussing the annual meeting, we had the entire budget online to review and criticize as I recall.

But I don't know to many people who think that an amount estimated at close to $100K annually is a "small amount" and considering this isn't the first PSPL season and other than paying for an application so you can feed teams into it to create pairings, that's a lot of money unaccounted for, and despite the tales spun on this website, you can't find anything online in regards to their financials.

So I have no problem if you want to attack WYS, TF, or what ever, but don't be a hypocrite, if the PSPL is your answer to all things, than at least have the courage to demand the same integrity from them that you insist is missing from WYS.

I thought that too. Nice one!

Modifying that I have nothing constructive to add except "tilting at windmills" is a phrase that I will now be working into any & every conversation on the touch line. Watch for it!

tripleplay · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2011, 08:13:38 AM »

Quote from: EWDOC on October 22, 2011, 01:19:28 AM

As a matter of fact, in earlier posts in discussing the annual meeting, we had the entire budget online to review and criticize as I recall.

Your recollection is faulty. Objective financial information was not posted. WYS did release a propaganda document whose purpose was to drum up support for a large dues increase. (For example, it did not show the executive director's compensation. That's only available because WYS is legally required to make it available and people like four flags dug it up.) Reality is that generally neither WYS nor its components (districts, associations, and clubs) make financial information available beyond that which they are legally required to do so. Out of curiosity, does your league make its budget public? For you to fault the PSPL for continuing the WYS practice smacks of desperation.

Personally, I think the premise behind some of the criticism - that cheaper is better and free is best - is wrong. (A good illustration of that would be the District 6 league, which is driving clubs and teams out of WYS at an alarming rate. That's a very high price to pay - far more than the market value of a league scheduler) Some things are worth paying for.

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2011, 09:52:41 PM »

Nice job, EWDOC. You have got TP argueing against himself again. It is not hard, of course, but it does require patience. Good job on that patience!

Quote from: tripleplay on October 22, 2011, 08:13:38 AM

Quote from: EWDOC on October 22, 2011, 01:19:28 AM
As a matter of fact, in earlier posts in discussing the annual meeting, we had the entire budget online to review and criticize as I recall.

Your recollection is faulty. Objective financial information was not posted. WYS did release a propaganda document whose purpose was to drum up support for a large dues increase. (For example, it did not show the executive director's compensation. That's only available because WYS is legally required to make it available and people like four flags dug it up.) Reality is that generally neither WYS nor its components (districts, associations, and clubs) make financial information available beyond that which they are legally required to do so. Out of curiosity, does your league make its budget public? For you to fault the PSPL for continuing the WYS practice smacks of desperation.

Personally, I think the premise behind some of the criticism - that cheaper is better and free is best - is wrong. (A good illustration of that would be the District 6 league, which is driving clubs and teams out of WYS at an alarming rate. That's a very high price to pay - far more than the market value of a league scheduler) Some things are worth paying for.

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Author Topic: $170,000 (Read 2056 times)