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[RCL_Fan]

Let the (friendly) debate begin. I noted that the Boys 98 teams got their props recently in this forum. Which Washington girls U-13 teams are performing the best as the second half of the Fall 2011 season is underway?

Washington Girls U-13 Top Ten Teams:
1   WPFC 98 Black               15 consecutive RCL Division 1 & NWCL wins is a noteworthy achievement for two-time State Cup finalist
2   Eastside FC 98 Red         Very organized defense keeps team in games until offense can produce
3   NWN G98 Red                 Defending State Cup champs stumbled in NWCL but currently in second place in RCL Division 1
4   Crossfire Premier            Only a 4-4 record in RCL Division 1 but a spot in NWCL semis gives squad a chance to test itself in December
5   Cobra Azzurri                  Spokane's top team has been laying waste to PSPL U-13 Super League opposition during Fall season
6   Dos FC 98 Red                 Well-coached, competitive team usually gives top four RCL teams all that they can handle
7   Snohomish United Black    Improved squad looks to remain in Division 1 with top six finish during Fall RCL
8   Seattle United Copa Navy  Undefeated in RCL Division 2 play while yielding only three goals in 8 games
9   Washington Rush 98 Nike  Picked up signficant win over Eastside FC 98 Red Saturday in attempt to remain in Division 1
10 Spokane Shadow Navy       Division 3 leader with 9-1-0 record is ready for promotion to Division 2 during spring  

[ThaBigCheese]

Interesting move putting the Spokane Shadow in the top 10.  No team in DII worthy?  We have played the Shadow twice and they have no business in D3 so an interesting move pitting them that high.

[anyudes]

Dos fell 1-2 to  WPFC. The toughest & closest match WPFC have played since Surf Cup.

[futbol123]

Dos fell 1-2 to  WPFC. The toughest & closest match WPFC have played since Surf Cup.

What about the 1-0 win over Crossfire in the NWCL? I wasn't there so was just curious if it was much of a game.

[anyudes]

Dos fell 1-2 to  WPFC. The toughest & closest match WPFC have played since Surf Cup.

What about the 1-0 win over Crossfire in the NWCL? I wasn't there so was just curious if it was much of a game.

I watched the entire first half & half of the second. WP had their two best attacking players on crutches for that weekend. I was amazed they did so well considering...

[tripleplay]

Let the (friendly) debate begin. I noted that the Boys 98 teams got their props recently in this forum. Which Washington girls U-13 teams are performing the best as the second half of the Fall 2011 season is underway?

Washington Girls U-13 Top Ten Teams:

5   Cobra Azzurri                  Spokane's top team has been laying waste to PSPL U-13 Super League opposition during Fall season

What's the basis for believing that Cobra is better than Shadow? Fyi, Cobra played in the Crossfire Challenge and was shut out by Snohomish and Crossfire.

[oscartc]

What's the basis for believing that Cobra is better than Shadow? Fyi, Cobra played in the Crossfire Challenge and was shut out by Snohomish and Crossfire.
[/quote]

They did beat the Shadow in the Summer.  But at this age group I don't think the Shadow belongs near the top 10 (Their G97/U14 team seems to be pretty strong though) .  I've seen just about all of the eastern wa teams at this age group and I'd put the Shadow behind the Cobras, ASE, 3 Rivers, and Spokane Foxes (probably in that order).  Hard to say where the Cobras would fit in with the others in the top 10.  Probably not as high as the original poster put them, but maybe not too far back either.  

[tripleplay]

They did beat the Shadow in the Summer.  But at this age group I don't think the Shadow belongs near the top 10 (Their G97/U14 team seems to be pretty strong though) .  I've seen just about all of the eastern wa teams at this age group and I'd put the Shadow behind the Cobras, ASE, 3 Rivers, and Spokane Foxes (probably in that order).  Hard to say where the Cobras would fit in with the others in the top 10.  Probably not as high as the original poster put them, but maybe not too far back either.  

Thanks. While you're at it, how about your ranking of Sun City?

[billybuck]

Let the (friendly) debate begin. I noted that the Boys 98 teams got their props recently in this forum. Which Washington girls U-13 teams are performing the best as the second half of the Fall 2011 season is underway?

Washington Girls U-13 Top Ten Teams:
1   WPFC 98 Black               15 consecutive RCL Division 1 & NWCL wins is a noteworthy achievement for two-time State Cup finalist
2   Eastside FC 98 Red         Very organized defense keeps team in games until offense can produce
3   NWN G98 Red                 Defending State Cup champs stumbled in NWCL but currently in second place in RCL Division 1
4   Crossfire Premier            Only a 4-4 record in RCL Division 1 but a spot in NWCL semis gives squad a chance to test itself in December
5   Cobra Azzurri                  Spokane's top team has been laying waste to PSPL U-13 Super League opposition during Fall season
6   Dos FC 98 Red                 Well-coached, competitive team usually gives top four RCL teams all that they can handle
7   Snohomish United Black    Improved squad looks to remain in Division 1 with top six finish during Fall RCL
8   Seattle United Copa Navy  Undefeated in RCL Division 2 play while yielding only three goals in 8 games
9   Washington Rush 98 Nike  Picked up signficant win over Eastside FC 98 Red Saturday in attempt to remain in Division 1
10 Spokane Shadow Navy       Division 3 leader with 9-1-0 record is ready for promotion to Division 2 during spring  

Of your top 4 teams credit must be given to WPFC who despite injuries continues to find a way to win, the second, third and forth place teams are showing wear and tear from a long summer tournament season and moving into RCL/NWCL this fall, it appears they need some down time to recover...

[oscartc]

Thanks. While you're at it, how about your ranking of Sun City?

Probably similar to 3 rivers (a little behind them in division 2 right now, but they did beat them and tie them so far and 3 rivers might have a more difficult remaining schedule).  The Foxes are difficult to judge given their weak league right now (Inland NW Copa)
My .02 puts them a little behind the Cobras and ASE and ahead of the Shadow so for what it's worth (not much), my ew rankings: 1. Cobras 2. ASE 3. Sun City, 3 Rivers, 5. Foxes 6. Shadow

[Brat Jr]

Hi oscartc! Welcome to WPS! 

[tripleplay]

The Foxes are difficult to judge given their weak league right now (Inland NW Copa)
My .02 puts them a little behind the Cobras and ASE and ahead of the Shadow so for what it's worth (not much), my ew rankings: 1. Cobras 2. ASE 3. Sun City, 3 Rivers, 5. Foxes 6. Shadow

Interesting. If those teams were a division I think it would be an upgrade (or at least roughly equal) compared to the divisions they currently play in.

[cleo99]

so important. but seemingly too hard for the brain trust.  pspl = rcl div 2 and that's generous right now. love to see some intelligent bracketing by those in the know. I know most do what's offered. I think if cobra wants to rival D1 teams they should be able to play the top pspl U-14 teams and win. maybe we'll see this in the spring.

[honeybadger]

so important. but seemingly too hard for the brain trust.  pspl = rcl div 2 and that's generous right now. love to see some intelligent bracketing by those in the know. I know most do what's offered. I think if cobra wants to rival D1 teams they should be able to play the top pspl U-14 teams and win. maybe we'll see this in the spring.

The PSPL rules do not allow teams to play up into the Super League; the Cobras would have to play up into the U14 Classic (same as the ISC '98 Gunners A team).  The PSPL describes their Classic league as designed for B and C level teams, so I'm not sure what winning would prove anyway..that they are better than the weakest U14 teams?  Also, there exists a huge conflict of interest with Jimmy Ball being both the PSPL Technical Director and also the coach of that ISC team. "Teams wishing to play-up must be champions of the Super League on-age and will only be allowed to enter the age above at the Classic level. This will be subject to approval from the PSPL Technical director and space in the league."  I would bet that the Cobras would not be allowed to play with the Gunners 98 A team, because ISC is using their play-up to cheat the '98 teams playing at age out of an invitation to the NWCL. (see my previous thread "NWCL minus ASE Emerald, that I posted in the summer.)

As I predicted, the Cobra Azzurri are not going to be invited to the NWCL despite winning the Fall Superleague, because ISC argues that their Gunner's A team is better because they played up into the U14 classic league.  I have inside information that the Cobras were told that the only way they will get to go to the NWCL is if two spots are offered, and in that case both the Cobras and ISC team will play in the NWCL.  If only one spot is offered, then only ISC will play in the NWCL.  Some might ask, why didn't the Cobras play up too?  But again I doubt that they even would have been allowed to because ISC wants to ensure their own spot in the NWCL.  Also, IMO, the Gunners were not at all impressive in the NWCL this year, so why should they be allowed to go again?  As far as head to head competition between the Cobras and Gunners, I believe the Gunners beat the Cobras 2-0 in last year's WA Cup; however, this is a new year, and I know that several of the Cobra's players were missing from that tournament.  If the Cobras and Gunners played again, I think the Cobras would win.

To the original poster:  Where would you place the ISC Gunner's '98 A team in your original list, if at all?

To Tripleplay: in a perfect world, I would love to see the best eastern washington teams be able to play each other.  I agree that it would be an upgrade from their current leagues, but it just won't happen.  I would love to see the eastern washington teams stop paying into the PSPL corrupt system.  But what option do the Cobras have besides the PSPL?  They can never be RCL because they are a tiny independent club from Spokane, and if they return to WYS, they only good competition they could get would be playing up, and even with that, I know that when the cobras played up to the highest level in District 6 last Spring, they placed second.

 

[ponyup101]

I coach a team in the U-14 Classic division.  I have the unique perspective of having played all three teams in question.  ASE Emerald, Cobras, and ISC Gunners.  We lost to all 3 teams but we competed best with the Gunners.  We played the Cobras in the Spring and they ran circles around us.  We have never done well against ASE but against the Gunners we felt we were on a similar level with them.

Now maybe they had a bad day or we had a good day.  Who knows?  But I was not as impressed with them as I have been with the other 2.

ASE beat the Cobras last week 2-1.  Cobras still win the league though.

Tough call on which league is better.  U14G Classic or U13G Super.  I would guess the U13 league is technically better but size and speed help the U-14 teams.  My guess is if you put those 3 U13 teams in the U14 Classic division they would finish 1-2-3.

[tripleplay]

Tough call on which league is better.  U14G Classic or U13G Super.  I would guess the U13 league is technically better but size and speed help the U-14 teams.  My guess is if you put those 3 U13 teams in the U14 Classic division they would finish 1-2-3.

Which is what should have happened if teams wanted to make the case that they were the PSPL's best. Bottom line is that on the field ISC's 8th of 12 in the NWCL is IMO more impressive than anything that ASE/Cobra has done. (Look at these teams' summer results where they went up against RCL teams) They could be better but they've done nothing whatsoever to prove it on the field. Personally I'd be happy to let the Washington Cup decide,  but relying on ridiculous regular season mismatches is idiotic.
 

[EWDOC]

in a perfect world, I would love to see the best eastern washington teams be able to play each other.  I agree that it would be an upgrade from their current leagues, but it just won't happen.  I would love to see the eastern washington teams stop paying into the PSPL corrupt system.  But what option do the Cobras have besides the PSPL?  They can never be RCL because they are a tiny independent club from Spokane, and if they return to WYS, they only good competition they could get would be playing up, and even with that, I know that when the cobras played up to the highest level in District 6 last Spring, they placed second.

The Cobras are a very good select team, but to say they couldn't find good competition isn't very accurate.  Last year, they played in our top division at U12 in the fall season with a division of 11 teams and won it, in games against teams that finished 2-4, the scores were 1-0, 1-1, and 0-0 and one of those was a U11 team.  In the spring, we moved them up to our top U13 division (which was arguably not as strong as our U12s), and they finished 3rd only scoring 10 goals over the season and were clearly challenged.  I would call them one of the top 5 ’98 teams out of Spokane, but to say they are the best would be a reach right now.

In this year’s Super Division, only the teams in 2nd and 3rd place appeared to be able to hang with the Cobras, which tells me that they are playing to comparable competition to what they were playing last year.  To me the argument should be why doesn’t the NWCL make offers to the top teams in the state, comparing all league’s top teams and not just the few leagues that they do today because this is clearly a case that the PSPL Super Divisions are comparable to most select leagues that already exist in the state anyway.
 

[honeybadger]

in a perfect world, I would love to see the best eastern washington teams be able to play each other.  I agree that it would be an upgrade from their current leagues, but it just won't happen.  I would love to see the eastern washington teams stop paying into the PSPL corrupt system.  But what option do the Cobras have besides the PSPL?  They can never be RCL because they are a tiny independent club from Spokane, and if they return to WYS, they only good competition they could get would be playing up, and even with that, I know that when the cobras played up to the highest level in District 6 last Spring, they placed second.

The Cobras are a very good select team, but to say they couldn't find good competition isn't very accurate.  Last year, they played in our top division at U12 in the fall season with a division of 11 teams and won it, in games against teams that finished 2-4, the scores were 1-0, 1-1, and 0-0 and one of those was a U11 team.  In the spring, we moved them up to our top U13 division (which was arguably not as strong as our U12s), and they finished 3rd only scoring 10 goals over the season and were clearly challenged.  I would call them one of the top 5 ’98 teams out of Spokane, but to say they are the best would be a reach right now.

In this year’s Super Division, only the teams in 2nd and 3rd place appeared to be able to hang with the Cobras, which tells me that they are playing to comparable competition to what they were playing last year.  To me the argument should be why doesn’t the NWCL make offers to the top teams in the state, comparing all league’s top teams and not just the few leagues that they do today because this is clearly a case that the PSPL Super Divisions are comparable to most select leagues that already exist in the state anyway.
 

Please list your other top 4 teams in Spokane. I can't think of any that are better than the Cobras at '98.  If you are thinking of the Spokane Foxes, I must point out that the Spokane Foxes had at least 2 of the best players from ASE Emerald as guests when the Foxes beat the Cobras at the Northwest Cup in the Summer.  I can't think of any other Spokane teams that have beat the Cobras in the past year at age (I might be wrong).  The cobras also have at least one player in the EPD and another player in the Idaho ODP.  If the Cobras girls wanted to play for the Shadow, they could easily play for Shadow Navy (one of them did move over to Shadow and is playing up on the U14 Navy team).  The point is they don't need to play for the Shadow or any of the other big clubs in Spokane to be considered "premier;" they are doing fine as an independent club and have an excellent coach. The Cobras consistently beat the '98 Shadow Navy "Premier" team, which is only as good as a select team at this point, but because they are Shadow, they get to call themselves premier.  It's just a word without real meaning these days.

[ponyup101]

in a perfect world, I would love to see the best eastern washington teams be able to play each other.  I agree that it would be an upgrade from their current leagues, but it just won't happen.  I would love to see the eastern washington teams stop paying into the PSPL corrupt system.  But what option do the Cobras have besides the PSPL?  They can never be RCL because they are a tiny independent club from Spokane, and if they return to WYS, they only good competition they could get would be playing up, and even with that, I know that when the cobras played up to the highest level in District 6 last Spring, they placed second.

The Cobras are a very good select team, but to say they couldn't find good competition isn't very accurate.  Last year, they played in our top division at U12 in the fall season with a division of 11 teams and won it, in games against teams that finished 2-4, the scores were 1-0, 1-1, and 0-0 and one of those was a U11 team.  In the spring, we moved them up to our top U13 division (which was arguably not as strong as our U12s), and they finished 3rd only scoring 10 goals over the season and were clearly challenged.  I would call them one of the top 5 ’98 teams out of Spokane, but to say they are the best would be a reach right now.

In this year’s Super Division, only the teams in 2nd and 3rd place appeared to be able to hang with the Cobras, which tells me that they are playing to comparable competition to what they were playing last year.  To me the argument should be why doesn’t the NWCL make offers to the top teams in the state, comparing all league’s top teams and not just the few leagues that they do today because this is clearly a case that the PSPL Super Divisions are comparable to most select leagues that already exist in the state anyway.
 

Doc.  Maybe you are talking only about the 98's but you said PSPL Super Divisions, plural.  Having played in D6's top league and PSPL Classic league, I can say that there is no comparison.  My team is vastly improved this year and we have struggled a lot in the Classic division.  With the exception of one team every game is tough.  I am not saying we are premier and D6 is select, just that the competition level at U14 is not close.

At U14 there are also 2 Super leagues above us.  I have no illusions about the level at which my team plays.  We are an Upper level Select team. 

CDA Sting, SSC Elite (Faridnia), Sabers Stiles, River City Steelers, would all lay waste to your highest level.  So please don't compare apples and oranges.

[anyudes]

If the Cobras girls wanted to play for the Shadow, they could easily play for Shadow Navy (one of them did move over to Shadow and is playing up on the U14 Navy team). 

This girl playing up must be incredible because this U14 Shadow team IS worth playing up to. They are a well coached, organized & disciplined team with a ton of talent. They may just win NWCL out of RCL 2. Watch out...

[EWDOC]

anyudes:  your correct, those GU14 Shadow girls are doing incredibly well right now and are a team that is truly getting better every year.

ponyup:  I did use the plural because there are more than one division that clearly isn't any better than anyone else.  I agree with the GU14s being solid, but do find it funny that the leaders of both Super Divisions are from Spokane and you can't use the one division's apparent strength to claim "apples and oranges".  We've had divisions of "killers" too from time to time, but that doesn't change who we are as a league.

honeybadger:  You may be right, they may be the best team..I just don't know.  If you go by wins and losses, then sure...however if the Cobras and Foxes had played with their peers in our league again this year, I'm not sure the Cobras would have won the division again..I've had the pleasure of seeing them play and even though they have won some close games, the flow of play in games I saw was not one sided but even.  If I look at the Cobras, Foxes, Shadow, Sabers and Breakers - the Cobras stand out record wise for sure.  The Breakers have the best coach among these teams, so it will be interesting to watch how all these teams continue to develop.  I do find it funny that at first you complain that the Cobras have no one to play, but than tell me they are doing just fine.  I wish them continued success, but if the goal is to get into the RCL without joining the Shadow, they should be contacting me so I can help them do just that.  

[oscartc]

honeybadger:  You may be right, they may be the best team..I just don't know.  If you go by wins and losses, then sure...however if the Cobras and Foxes had played with their peers in our league again this year, I'm not sure the Cobras would have won the division again..I've had the pleasure of seeing them play and even though they have won some close games, the flow of play in games I saw was not one sided but even.  If I look at the Cobras, Foxes, Shadow, Sabers and Breakers - the Cobras stand out record wise for sure.  The Breakers have the best coach among these teams, so it will be interesting to watch how all these teams continue to develop.  I do find it funny that at first you complain that the Cobras have no one to play, but than tell me they are doing just fine.  I wish them continued success, but if the goal is to get into the RCL without joining the Shadow, they should be contacting me so I can help them do just that. 

EWDOC:  I don't think you've seen these teams (especially recently) very much.  Having seen most of these teams for the past few seasons, the cobras have improved, IMO, more than the other teams you mention, especially offensively. They had always been outstanding defensively.  I think they may have added a few players this season.  In the past the Foxes were close to equal with the Cobras but I think the Cobras a bit better now, and the Sabers and Breakers certainly could compete sometimes (I don't think the Sabers or Breakers were much behind your "premier" shadow98 team last year). But also note that 3 rivers (near the top of RCL division 2) also used to play in the district 6 league and finished behind the cobras. Didn't the cobras win the district 6 league each time they were in it at age? And I certainly remember seeing more lopsided results than you are citing.

More to the point, however, is why district 6 can't or isn't keeping these better teams and having a strong E. Washington league since you bring it up.  Clearly they could form a fairly competitive league if the Shadow, 3 Rivers, ASE, cobras, foxes, and maybe  the sabers, breakers, cda sting, and lakeland nighthawks, etc. were to all to form one league.  But can that really happen now? Shadow and 3rivers play in RCL. I believe this pushed other clubs like the Foxes and ASE to go fully US Club.  So yes, the most competitive teams in the area are not left in your District 6 league.  This is mostly the result of your WSYSA RCL system (though I believe you guys have debated enough about that on here that I don't need to elaborate).

[EWDOC]

oscartc, welcome to WPS....I haven't seen the Cobras play this fall, so again, if you and honeybadger say they are better than before, we'll have to believe you.  I'm just responding to a "for fun" poll that listed the Cobras as possibly the 5th best team in the state and the comment that they are the best team in Spokane at their age.  To respond to your questions:

The Cobras played a fall and spring season with us at U11.  The finished 1st in the spring season, and lost to the 3RSC team you mention that finished a game or two behind them in the standings (which shows that the standings only tell some of the story).

I've already mentioned how they did the following year, so no they didn't finish 1st every time.  And while they blew out some teams, no more so than they did this fall season.  The scores I mentioned were for the their games between the teams that finished 2nd thru 4th behind them in our U12 division last fall.  So my point was, they had at least 3 other teams that competed just fine with them that year and contrary to the inference that our next age group didn't challenge them, I just shared the stats that showed that wasn't quite true.  Their games with the Sabers were 1 goal games every time in league play. 

To your question about "can't or keeping" teams, we're a league, we don't try and keep teams.  Teams choose to play in our league or other leagues...our league has historically been a launching pad for some teams to play in other leagues.  The funny thing is all those teams you mention did play in our league, but as you stated, two went to the RCL and some went elsewhere....but I can't worry about that.  If all those teams wanted to play together, we would help them, but I can't force them.  But while our league is an open US Youth league, we tend to have teams that wish to limit their travel to our side of the state.  If a select team wishes to travel to the west side of the state to play, that is there choice. 

I wouldn't worry about our league, our numbers have gone up every year and this fall was our biggest season ever as far as number of teams participating.  I can't control what the RCL does, it's just another league to me and one I have been on the record of not being a fan of.  I was just pointing out that I didn't feel that the Cobras were that much better than at least 3 other teams in our area as far as content of play, but as you and others have pointed out, maybe that is not true this year, but we won't know since they won't play each other in league play this year.  But if we only lost two teams to the RCL out of the ones you mention, than I'm not sure what's keeping those other teams you mention from playing each other now.  No one pushed clubs to do anything, clubs do what they want to preserve their ambitions, financial health, status (true or false), etc...

So my point was a simple one, I was shocked to see the Cobras rated that high simply because I had seen them play more than once prior to this fall and was completely aware of how they rated locally.  I was also, not surprised that their Super Division was no more challenging than our league had been to them and simply pointed that out.  My fear is that they may peak sooner than later, much like the Cobra '98 boys appear to be doing.  But I can't help teams unless they ask for it.

[honeybadger]

EWDOC: I didn't mean to have this thread overrun by a debate on which is the best '98 team in Spokane.  But bottom line is I believe the Cobras do belong in the top 10 teams in WA, and they are definitely the best '98 team in Spokane.  I didn't argue with you when you provided evidence that the Cobras were challenged when they played up in D6 last Spring; you made a point.  But at age, you provided no evidence to support your claims that other teams in Spokane are competitive with the Cobras.  Again, in the Summer, the Cobras beat the Foxes 5-0 to win the River city cup (the second best team in Spokane); in the following tournament, the Northwest cup, the Foxes brought in players from ASE Emerald to win 1-0 in penalty kicks after double overtime.  Cobras played up to U-14 in the Shadow Tournament and won.  The point is moot.  They have moved on to test themselves.

[tripleplay]

 They have moved on to test themselves.

I don't think so. I think you have it backwards - they were trying to duplicate ASE's strategy of last year - namely jumping into and winning a weak PSPL division and using that to sneak into the NWCL. Perhaps they will be successful, but it could hardly be characterized as testing themselves. Now granted they did test themselves in tourneys outside of league, but AFAIK didn't stand out or make much of a case for top 10.

Look at the facts. The PSPL teams who went to the NWCL after playing at age in the PSPL got walloped there. The PSPL teams that did the best were the PSPL playups.

[Cmorefiftyfore]

These are the "dog days" of soccer!  Long a-- summer tourney season, school starts, homework starts to pile up, darkness sneaks into the 5:00 hour (soon to be 4:30)...  My whole crew is growing disinterested in playing the same old teams over and over.  Coaches need to shut the ole girl down for two weeks, train a little for a few days and mix in another 10 days off or so... IMHO 

BillyB says:
Of your top 4 teams credit must be given to WPFC who despite injuries continues to find a way to win, the second, third and forth place teams are showing wear and tear from a long summer tournament season and moving into RCL/NWCL this fall, it appears they need some down time to recover...

Most teams are starting to feel this pain.  That team is very, very elite and deserves props for dealing with the injuries and continuing to dominate as you stated.  The depth on that team must be unbelievable. Just using the quote (which was back in Oct) as evidence that even the Big Girls on the block at that age can burn it at both ends. With fatigue comes injuries.  Not to mention cold weather brings the flu bug out.

Good luck to all the G98's as we move towards the end of the Fall League.  Stay healthy and rest up if allowed.

[oscartc]

I'm just responding to a "for fun" poll that listed the Cobras as possibly the 5th best team in the state and the comment that they are the best team in Spokane at their age.  
The Cobras played a fall and spring season with us at U11.  The finished 1st in the spring season, and lost to the 3RSC team you mention that finished a game or two behind them in the standings (which shows that the standings only tell some of the story).

I've already mentioned how they did the following year, so no they didn't finish 1st every time.  And while they blew out some teams, no more so than they did this fall season.  The scores I mentioned were for the their games between the teams that finished 2nd thru 4th behind them in our U12 division last fall.  So my point was, they had at least 3 other teams that competed just fine with them that year and contrary to the inference that our next age group didn't challenge them, I just shared the stats that showed that wasn't quite true.  Their games with the Sabers were 1 goal games every time in league play.  

Couple quick notes: Note that I didn't say they were a top 5 team (that was another poster).  I really have no idea how they would compare to teams in Western Washington although I am interested to see.  I mostly just stated that the Shadow, especially, should not have been rated nearly that high and pointed out what I thought was at least 4 or 5 teams better than them in Eastern Washington alone. And included my opinion that the Cobras were the best team in Eastern Washington I had seen at this age group.  I still think the results show this as well even from the prior year district 6 league results you mention.  You mention a cobra loss to 3rsc, but didn't they also beat them in either the fall or spring and isn't a whole season more telling than 1 game?  And am I wrong that they won the district 6 league every time they played at their age?  In the fall 2010 league you cited, how many goals did they give up, and how many did they score? My recollection is they barely even got scored on that season and finished 1st (just as they had at U11). As I said, throughout this period, they appeared the most impressive team in the area in games I witnessed (mostly against my daughter's team), and in their overall results.  I have yet to see you really provide any evidence to suggest any eastern washington team performed better than them even prior to this year.  Yes, there were teams competitive with them, but you didn't show any eastern wa teams who were better.  And most of these more competitive teams are also no longer in the district 6 league.

[tripleplay]

But while our league is an open US Youth league,

Are ASE teams permitted to play in your league? You can't claim to be an "open" league when you are part of a closed system, where incumbents can pick and choose who they want as fellow members. The question is whether being closed and expelling clubs like  ASE, Tynecastle, ECFC etc. is a good thing. In another thread we see the system being lauded for its ability to keep out "uncommitted" Hispanics. Open? Not hardly.

[EWDOC]

I'm just responding to a "for fun" poll that listed the Cobras as possibly the 5th best team in the state and the comment that they are the best team in Spokane at their age.  
The Cobras played a fall and spring season with us at U11.  The finished 1st in the spring season, and lost to the 3RSC team you mention that finished a game or two behind them in the standings (which shows that the standings only tell some of the story).

I've already mentioned how they did the following year, so no they didn't finish 1st every time.  And while they blew out some teams, no more so than they did this fall season.  The scores I mentioned were for the their games between the teams that finished 2nd thru 4th behind them in our U12 division last fall.  So my point was, they had at least 3 other teams that competed just fine with them that year and contrary to the inference that our next age group didn't challenge them, I just shared the stats that showed that wasn't quite true.  Their games with the Sabers were 1 goal games every time in league play.  

Couple quick notes: Note that I didn't say they were a top 5 team (that was another poster).  I really have no idea how they would compare to teams in Western Washington although I am interested to see.  I mostly just stated that the Shadow, especially, should not have been rated nearly that high and pointed out what I thought was at least 4 or 5 teams better than them in Eastern Washington alone. And included my opinion that the Cobras were the best team in Eastern Washington I had seen at this age group.  I still think the results show this as well even from the prior year district 6 league results you mention.  You mention a cobra loss to 3rsc, but didn't they also beat them in either the fall or spring and isn't a whole season more telling than 1 game?  And am I wrong that they won the district 6 league every time they played at their age?  In the fall 2010 league you cited, how many goals did they give up, and how many did they score? My recollection is they barely even got scored on that season and finished 1st (just as they had at U11). As I said, throughout this period, they appeared the most impressive team in the area in games I witnessed (mostly against my daughter's team), and in their overall results.  I have yet to see you really provide any evidence to suggest any eastern washington team performed better than them even prior to this year.  Yes, there were teams competitive with them, but you didn't show any eastern wa teams who were better.  And most of these more competitive teams are also no longer in the district 6 league.

I'm not sure you and honeybadger actually read my posts, but I'm sure that is due to your passion on the topic.  I have already conceded that from a simple Wins/Loss perspective, they would be the best and I also stated that I haven't seen them this fall so if you two say they are even better than I believe you.  I already mentioned that they did not win their division every single time and I did provide scores showing that their last fall season against the teams that finished right behind them were either ties or 1 goal games.  I don't put much weight on summer tournament scores as I do league play, but that's just me.  So I'll concede they are the best team in Spokane based on your view of this.  I don't agree that only wins tell the story, but they are definitely part of the story.  I would have to say that in Eastern Washington as a whole, 3RSC, ASE, and the Cobras are neck and neck and each could win against each other on any given weekend, but I guess I'm the only one who will say that.  We'll see if that is still true in another year.

I would love to hear why honeybadger believes they are top 5 or top 10 and what that opinion is based on.  The only season they have faced teams that could beat them was last spring when they played up a year.  This fall all they did was spend more $$$ and travel more to play the same caliber of teams, just on the west side. Like I said, very good team, just not sure they are on the right path or in the top 10 conversation, but if someone tells me they have played those teams mentioned in the poll and that the game were all close, than that would do it.

[honeybadger]

EWDOC: I did read your posts.  I'm not sure what your motive is to downplay the Cobra Azzurri's success for the last few years and especially this year.  I can see that you became defensive when I said anything negative about D6.  I only chime in on the fourm when I have "knowledge" of what I'm talking about.  I don't make baseless claims without something to back it up (even though I might be wrong at times); I'm not trying to make you "believe" me, just providing reasons.  I agree that the 3RSC, ASE, and Cobra are close to equal.  What I didn't agree with was your baseless claim that any other '98 team in Spokane besides the foxes can rival the Cobras.

Anyway, the list is intended to reflect someone's opinion on a team's current status.  Teams change every year.  Players are gained and lost.  I don't agree with generalizing a team's likelihood of success OR failure based on that name of their club.  I believe each team should be judged by the efforts and skills and results of their current rosters ( even the best coaches are not magicians; they have to work with the given talent for the current year).  Why do I believe Cobras should be top in the top 10?  They played in the Crossfire challenge Gold division the summer: Lost 2-0 to Crossfire, lost 2-0 to Snohomish, but beat a current NWCL team (lake oswego) 3-0.  Just my opinion; but you don't have any faith in summer results.  I would like to see the Cobras have a chance to play ISC Gunners A and see what happens.