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[jensco123]

Here are the results from the Northwest Champions League Finals over the weekend.  Any surprises?  Any comments?  Anyone surprised that OR took home 1 boys title and one girls title?
****************************************************************************************************
2011 U11 - U14 Champions Crowned!

Congratulations to the 2011 Northwest Champions League Champions:

BU11 - Crossfire 00 Black
BU12 - WPFC 99 Black
BU13 - WPFC 98 Black
BU14 - Willamette United 97 Arsenal

GU11 - Crossfire 00 Reynolds
GU12 - Eastside FC 99 Red
GU13 - Tualatin Hills United Soccer Club 98 Onyx
GU14 - Spokane Shadow 97 Navy

[EWSoccer64]

So Oregon got 25% of the titles  - who is surprised at that?

[Der Kaiser]

Interesting for Crossfire Boy's teams not winning U-12, U-13, or U-14 finals.

[plentyofgames]

So Oregon got 25% of the titles  - who is surprised at that?

Not me. The HS boys play this weekend, but there seem to be some significant omissions on the Washington side. Predictions?

[Boyzsoccermom]

The WPFC teams in the U12 and U13 age group played great!  The U12 boys came back from a 3-1 deficit to beat FC Portland's huge team 5-4 in the semi finals.  It was an awesome come from behind win!  Both teams played outstanding in the finals with the U12's beating Crossfire James 3-0 and the U13's beating Eastside 3-0.  Nice day for Coach Webber, who coaches both of the teams, and the WPFC boys:)

[mhall]

I know the U16's boys includes Westside Metro Maranakos (sp), Eastside Pumas, Federal Way Storm and Emerald City.  Crossfire isn't coming down for some reason.

[plentyofgames]

WSM Galacticos at U-16. They'll be missing a couple of players (two on US U-17 MNT and one on a week long tryout) but should be ready to go. Disappointed they won't get to play Crossfire.

[mhall]

Sorry plenty!  That's what I meant, Galacticos!!  Sorry!  I am not sure what I was thinking!  The Pumas are right, right?

[FutbolFanatic]

Here are the results from the Northwest Champions League Finals over the weekend.  Any surprises?  Any comments?  Anyone surprised that OR took home 1 boys title and one girls title?
****************************************************************************************************
2011 U11 - U14 Champions Crowned!

Congratulations to the 2011 Northwest Champions League Champions:

BU11 - Crossfire 00 Black
BU12 - WPFC 99 Black
BU13 - WPFC 98 Black
BU14 - Willamette United 97 Arsenal

GU11 - Crossfire 00 Reynolds
GU12 - Eastside FC 99 Red
GU13 - Tualatin Hills United Soccer Club 98 Onyx
GU14 - Spokane Shadow 97 Navy

Interesting that at GU12, EFC Red won the NW Champions League but will finish no higher than 6th, and could possibly finish in 7th, in the RCL Division 1.  No knock against EFC; I think is simply an indication that there are a lot of good teams at this age group without a whole lot separating them.  Interesting scenario here:  Crossfire B is currently in 7th place in Division 1, with 1 less point than EFC and a game in hand.  If they beat NWN in their final game next weekend, EFC Red will finish in 7th place in Division 1.  EFC White has 2nd place in Division 2 locked up.  So it is possible that EFC Red could end up playing EFC White in a promotion/relegation game.  If that happens, I'm guessing there won't be an issue with the A team players guest playing for the B team in an advancement/relegation game

[kameharem]

The WPFC teams in the U12 and U13 age group played great!  The U12 boys came back from a 3-1 deficit to beat FC Portland's huge team 5-4 in the semi finals.  It was an awesome come from behind win!  Both teams played outstanding in the finals with the U12's beating Crossfire James 3-0 and the U13's beating Eastside 3-0.  Nice day for Coach Webber, who coaches both of the teams, and the WPFC boys:)

Those two teams looked very good this weekend, near unstoppable in the finals. There were a lot of good games out there, I was chewing my nails at the GU11 final game that ended in PK's.  Eastside missed the first two and were on the ropes but came back to tie it 3-3 after 5, then XF missed the next one and Eastside had the chance to win but put the shot over the bar giving XF another chance and they finished it in the next round. Was good for XF who were subject to a horrid off side call earlier which may have given them the win in regulation.  I enjoyed watching them all even though my child was not in them. 

[T.N.T.]

Big kudo's to the Spokane Shadow G97 Navy team and their phenomenal coach
In the NWCL they had 6 wins with no losses and 2 ties scoring 12 goals and giving up just 2 with 6 of those games being shutouts These ladies have been really playing great soccer and earned the trip to the Surf Cup.

[anyudes]

Big kudo's to the Spokane Shadow G97 Navy team and their phenomenal coach
In the NWCL they had 6 wins with no losses and 2 ties scoring 12 goals and giving up just 2 with 6 of those games being shutouts These ladies have been really playing great soccer and earned the trip to the Surf Cup.

They keep getting better & better. What an organized machine!

[Fireguy21]

The WPFC teams in the U12 and U13 age group played great!  The U12 boys came back from a 3-1 deficit to beat FC Portland's huge team 5-4 in the semi finals.  It was an awesome come from behind win!  Both teams played outstanding in the finals with the U12's beating Crossfire James 3-0 and the U13's beating Eastside 3-0.  Nice day for Coach Webber, who coaches both of the teams, and the WPFC boys:)

Those two teams looked very good this weekend, near unstoppable in the finals. There were a lot of good games out there, I was chewing my nails at the GU11 final game that ended in PK's.  Eastside missed the first two and were on the ropes but came back to tie it 3-3 after 5, then XF missed the next one and Eastside had the chance to win but put the shot over the bar giving XF another chance and they finished it in the next round. Was good for XF who were subject to a horrid off side call earlier which may have given them the win in regulation.  I enjoyed watching them all even though my child was not in them. 

Northwest Nationals played CF in the final.

[kameharem]

The WPFC teams in the U12 and U13 age group played great!  The U12 boys came back from a 3-1 deficit to beat FC Portland's huge team 5-4 in the semi finals.  It was an awesome come from behind win!  Both teams played outstanding in the finals with the U12's beating Crossfire James 3-0 and the U13's beating Eastside 3-0.  Nice day for Coach Webber, who coaches both of the teams, and the WPFC boys:)

Those two teams looked very good this weekend, near unstoppable in the finals. There were a lot of good games out there, I was chewing my nails at the GU11 final game that ended in PK's.  Eastside missed the first two and were on the ropes but came back to tie it 3-3 after 5, then XF missed the next one and Eastside had the chance to win but put the shot over the bar giving XF another chance and they finished it in the next round. Was good for XF who were subject to a horrid off side call earlier which may have given them the win in regulation.  I enjoyed watching them all even though my child was not in them. 

Northwest Nationals played CF in the final.

sorry, I watched too many games and got the teams wrong, thanks for setting it strait.

[tripleplay]

Interesting that at GU12, EFC Red won the NW Champions League but will finish no higher than 6th, and could possibly finish in 7th, in the RCL Division 1.  No knock against EFC; I think is simply an indication that there are a lot of good teams at this age group without a whole lot separating them.  

Actually this illustrates rather clearly the idiocy of having poorly thought out automatic rules. The team in question's league results is one game below .500 in 14 games - that's pretty much the definition of being in the right place. They also have a recent league win over the first place team and a non-league win over the reigning state champ.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know whether the promotion/relegation results are being reported anywhere? There will be a few interesting games (in other divisions, by random chance).

[English1]

Interesting for Crossfire Boy's teams not winning U-12, U-13, or U-14 finals.

The boys '98 wp team have dominated the age group this year.  They had some great new addtions this year.  The '99 team are the only team with a new Coach this year and added several new players.  Not surprised they have had another great year winning RC and Crossfire Challenge.  They went to surf and ended up 1-1-1 which was great first showing.  I am not surprised at all.

[FutbolFanatic]

Interesting that at GU12, EFC Red won the NW Champions League but will finish no higher than 6th, and could possibly finish in 7th, in the RCL Division 1.  No knock against EFC; I think is simply an indication that there are a lot of good teams at this age group without a whole lot separating them.  

Actually this illustrates rather clearly the idiocy of having poorly thought out automatic rules. The team in question's league results is one game below .500 in 14 games - that's pretty much the definition of being in the right place. They also have a recent league win over the first place team and a non-league win over the reigning state champ.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know whether the promotion/relegation results are being reported anywhere? There will be a few interesting games (in other divisions, by random chance).

Actually the fact that EFC was capable of winning the NWCL while at the same time finishing 6th (or possibly 7th) in RCL Division 1 is indicative of exactly what I said:  there are many good teams at this age group without a whole lot separating them.  I think when you are talking about "idiotic hard and fast rules" you are talking about the promotion/relegation rules since the part of my post you didn't quote mentioned the possibility that EFC Red could possibly end up playing EFC White in a promotion/relegation game.  So what would your solution be in this situation?  Deny EFC White the opportunity to earn a shot at playing in Division 1 despite finishing solidly in 2nd place in Division 2?  Expand Division 1 to include more teams?  Also, if you don't have "idiotic hard and fast rules," don't you then end up with decisions made by "politicians," with the subsequent charges that the big clubs get to call the shots?

[tripleplay]

If you are going to rely on automatic formulae, you have to make them sensible. Going 3-4-7 WLT isn't a sign of being uncompetitive (forget about the 6-1-1 of NWCL). The trigger for promotion/relegation should be something like (W-L)/#Games >.5 or < -.5.

And the size of the division should be set to ensure good competition. Many cases this will be fewer than 8 but, as you note, GU12 may be abnormal. Having a fixed-sized Div1 is basically a political choice so that more can brag about being Div1. That type of motivation should be discounted in favor of the principle of like-vs.-like.

[soccerbuzz]

Another shoutout for the Spokane Shadow G14 Navy team and their performance in the NWCL...two very tough games this past weekend against quality teams in the semifinal vs NWN Red and final vs Timbers Red.  Surf Cup is another whole level, and will be a great experience for these young ladies!!! 

[FutbolFanatic]

If you are going to rely on automatic formulae, you have to make them sensible. Going 3-4-7 WLT isn't a sign of being uncompetitive (forget about the 6-1-1 of NWCL). The trigger for promotion/relegation should be something like (W-L)/#Games >.5 or < -.5.

And the size of the division should be set to ensure good competition. Many cases this will be fewer than 8 but, as you note, GU12 may be abnormal. Having a fixed-sized Div1 is basically a political choice so that more can brag about being Div1. That type of motivation should be discounted in favor of the principle of like-vs.-like.

Funny, I thought the size of the division had something to do with playing a 14-game balanced schedule.

[tripleplay]

Funny, I thought the size of the division had something to do with playing a 14-game balanced schedule.

Not sure what point you are making or what you mean by "balanced". Typically 8 teams in div1 means lots of mismatches. (Gu12 is not typical.) In my previous post I suggested that +8 or -8 would be a sensible threshold for promotion/relegation for a 14-game season. The idea that a team at -1 or -2 should be relegated is really just silly.

[switch]

WSM Galacticos at U-16. They'll be missing a couple of players (two on US U-17 MNT and one on a week long tryout) but should be ready to go. Disappointed they won't get to play Crossfire.

You must be scared of those Washington teams.  Can you recall who was in the finals last year?  Was it two Washington Teams?  If not, then certainly the Washington teams cleaned the two two Oregon teams when they played them during?  Or, at least, the scores were close.  I am getting so old that I cannot recall the scores of the matches.

[FutbolFanatic]

Funny, I thought the size of the division had something to do with playing a 14-game balanced schedule.

Not sure what point you are making or what you mean by "balanced". Typically 8 teams in div1 means lots of mismatches. (Gu12 is not typical.) In my previous post I suggested that +8 or -8 would be a sensible threshold for promotion/relegation for a 14-game season. The idea that a team at -1 or -2 should be relegated is really just silly.

Balanced means every team plays every other team home and away.  With a 14-game schedule, that means 8 teams per division.  The point is with a balanced schedule, no team has an advantage or disadvantage due to the schedule.

In the case at hand you are arguing that EFC Red shouldn't face a (potential) demotion game because their record isn't that bad.  I agree that EFC Red is obviously good enough to play in Division 1 and the fact they won the NWCL certainly supports that notion.  But if you waive the hard and fast rules that say EFC must play a promotion/relegation game IF they finish in 7th place (they are currently in 6th), then you must either deny EFC White the opportunity to play in Division 1 despite a very solid record in Division 2, or you must expand Division 1 to 9 teams, which unbalances the schedule.  In which case, you not only are subject to criticism that the "politicians" are making the decisions of division placement rather than players on the field, but with an unbalanced schedule, its pretty certain that somebody will be able to complain that they got screwed because they had to play X team twice while other teams did not.

[Islander]

Why on earth would you promote or relegate within one league based on a teams performance in another league.  No promotion/relegation needs to be based solely on the perfomance of the league it is taking place.

[tripleplay]

Since you agree with me EFC is competitive (they lost 4 times in 14 games), you need to offer a compelling reason for facing relegation. You haven't. If there are teams that are -8 or worse, then relegate them. If there are teams that are +8 or better, promote them. If it means unequal division sizes, well that is just the way the distribution of team strength happens to work out. By the way, EFC probably won't finish 7th, Crossfire B will. Their record would be -3. That is also not relegation-worthy. EFC B has a +8 GD in Div2 which means they are playing like competition there. (I do think they should add crossover games.)

Basically what we have, and you seem to favor, are poorly thought out rules that do not place any importance on generating like vs. like matches. Imagine a hypothetical and perfect division of 8 even teams which ends tied. You would kick out team(s) and deliberately create inequality based on some arbitrary tiebreak.  

[grizzly]

Actually.  I believe they are expanding Div 1 to nine teams for the start of Jan. season.  I heard Crossfire A Gu12 is coming back to "age" in Div 1.  At  first EFC white was told they would be staying in Div 2 and not getting to "play-in".   There was also talk of Spokane having to "play-in"to Div 1.  I heard that this didn't make Spokane very happy... not sure if that is true but I could certainly understand them not being happy.   Then a decision was made to just add Crossfire A and go on with the regular promotion/relegation that was originally expected.  Which is where its at today.  

Griz

[tripleplay]

Actually.  I believe they are expanding Div 1 to nine teams for the start of Jan. season.  I heard Crossfire A Gu12 is coming back to "age" in Div 1.  At  first EFC white was told they would be staying in Div 2 and not getting to "play-in".   There was also talk of Spokane having to "play-in"to Div 1.  I heard that this didn't make Spokane very happy... not sure if that is true but I could certainly understand them not being happy.   Then a decision was made to just add Crossfire A and go on with the regular promotion/relegation that was originally expected.  Which is where its at today.  

Griz

Glad there's at least room for partial common-sense. Still room for improvement.

[FutbolFanatic]

Since you agree with me EFC is competitive (they lost 4 times in 14 games), you need to offer a compelling reason for facing relegation. You haven't. If there are teams that are -8 or worse, then relegate them. If there are teams that are +8 or better, promote them. If it means unequal division sizes, well that is just the way the distribution of team strength happens to work out. By the way, EFC probably won't finish 7th, Crossfire B will. Their record would be -3. That is also not relegation-worthy. EFC B has a +8 GD in Div2 which means they are playing like competition there. (I do think they should add crossover games.)

Basically what we have, and you seem to favor, are poorly thought out rules that do not place any importance on generating like vs. like matches. Imagine a hypothetical and perfect division of 8 even teams which ends tied. You would kick out team(s) and deliberately create inequality based on some arbitrary tiebreak.  

The compelling reason is the rules are established ahead of time, everybody knows what is required, and it is settled on the field rather than by somebody's judgment of who belongs where and the politics that would invariably enter into those judgments.  Further, its not the end of the world if a team that is reasonably competitive in a higher division is relegated to a lower division due to finishing 7th or 8th.  Perhaps the lower division is competitive as well and the competition is perfectly adequate in the lower division.  And if that turns out not to be the case and the relegated team cleans up the lower division, they'll move back up.

[plentyofgames]

WSM Galacticos at U-16. They'll be missing a couple of players (two on US U-17 MNT and one on a week long tryout) but should be ready to go. Disappointed they won't get to play Crossfire.

You must be scared of those Washington teams.  Can you recall who was in the finals last year?  Was it two Washington Teams?  If not, then certainly the Washington teams cleaned the two two Oregon teams when they played them during?  Or, at least, the scores were close.  I am getting so old that I cannot recall the scores of the matches.

Something like that. 

[mhall]

We'll see if we can be competitive with you guys!!