Topic: NPSL Delivers Most Competitive Select Matches for Fall 2011 (Read 1016 times)

Scrunch · « **on:** December 12, 2011, 08:51:29 PM »

There is always lots of talk on this forum about playing like vs like and such. Lets assume for a minute that like vs. like can translate into competitive matches (meaning low goal differentials). For presumptions' sake, lets go with that.

So, which league delivered the greatest results on the promise of providing the most competitive matches week in and week out this fall? The RCL? Nope. How about the top tier of the RCL? Nope. Then it must be the State League? Nope. Ok, then, how about the other premier league, the PSPL? Nope.

According this this release that just came out, it was Washington Youth Soccer sanctioned North Puget Sound League (NPSL).

http://www.northpugetsoundleague.org/files/Releases/2011/NPSL_2011Fall-DeliverofThreeCs-20111212.pdf

chicken wing · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2011, 03:11:33 AM »

Yousef Habash? He's put together the most competitive league in the history of WA state.... but just who is this mystery master of the game?

tripleplay · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2011, 09:57:15 AM »

Can you describe the method that the NPSL uses to form it's divisions? In another thread, concerning promotion and relegation in the RCL, most people seem to favor automatic and arbitrary methods and don't particularly care if it leads to mismatches. That is, most people seem more concerned about the process than the results.

In fairness to the RCL, though, the very top teams start distancing themselves from the rest, and it is impossible to have like vs. like without shrinking the divisions or mixing with other age groups. Politically few want that because there is a sense that people have a "right" to play those teams.

kameharem · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2011, 11:48:04 AM »

So does this make Mr. Habash a soccer genious and should every league in the state change and follow his unknown scheduling methods because he improved the average goal differential by...wait for it...a gynormous .07?
Sorry, I wish the league the best and don't mean to put any participants or organizers down but this is just a PR statement.

inthenet · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:05:42 PM »

Quote from: chicken wing on December 13, 2011, 03:11:33 AM

Yousef Habash? He's put together the most competitive league in the history of WA state.... but just who is this mystery master of the game?

He is with Crossfire. A VP at Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association...

LWYSA BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Office     Individual    Area of Responsibility
President     Greg Wyrick    Executive Committee
1st VP - Programs    Yousef Habash    Executive Committee, All Program Groups

TP, The press release is just a propaganda... GD is no measure of the strength, success or quality of a league. Why stress this? If Yousef Habash thinks he's created the best of the best league, he can keep promoting this to ignorant parents/coaches... Putting the NPSL ahead of every other league in WA is a huge stretch of the imagination.

Is this guy's head grown a little.. "....These statistics confirm that the NPSL has delivered competition second to none for our select players and teams.”

Scrunch · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:19:51 PM »

Best league? No, I think it is clear that NPSL has never had delusions of grandeur that magnitude. Such is left to others.

Most competitive, meaning the kids come out and get a close match every week against similar strength teams? Absolutely.

tripleplay · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:49:38 PM »

GD most definitely is a measure. Maybe not the best, but a relatively simple one that is still meaningful. I wish the NPSL's league formation method could be described.

I have seen all kinds of competitively absurd divisions and it crosses all boundaries. I've seen them in rec, District 3, PDL, PSPL, RCL, NWCL ... In the end it it's not that hard to prevent and it really boils down to whether there is someone who cares enough to do things right. Sadly, there often isn't.

mudge · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2011, 01:29:20 PM »

maybe it's just reasonable people getting together and deciding which teams belong in which division. i suspect that without the RCL posturing, it's not that difficult when you have good people working collaboratively.

what a novel concept.

metz123 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:36:06 PM »

Quote from: mudge on December 13, 2011, 01:29:20 PM

maybe it's just reasonable people getting together and deciding which teams belong in which division. i suspect that without the RCL posturing, it's not that difficult when you have good people working collaboratively.

what a novel concept.

As a coach with 2 teams playing NPSL I've found that the divisional process for NPSL consists of exactly the above. I've freely given input to the NPSL board on the divisions my teams play in and even gone as far as suggesting how many teams should be in each division, knowing where the largest drop off in quality was the previous year. Both my teams are currently middle of the pack in both divisions, having competitive games every weekend. Are teams and players in the NPSL the focus of WYS politicians and DOC's and international alliances? No..but week in and week out, we play balanced matches, teach the kids the game and get home in time to do chores around the house.

skagitcoach · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2011, 03:01:08 PM »

Time for a math lesson, folks. While it is true that you can calculate the average goal differential per match for an individual team, the goal differential for a LEAGUE is always going to be 0.00 The number of goals scored for all matches in a league MUST equal the number of goals conceded. What the NPSL release is talking about sounds more like the average margin of victory for the winning teams in league matches. That is not the same thing as average goal differential -- reason being that the average margin of defeat for losing teams in league matches will be the same number as the average margin of victory.

If the teams in the NPSL won by an average margin of 1.36 goals per match, then the losing teams lost by an average of 1.36 goals per match. Thus, 1.36+(-1.36)=0.00, which is the average goal differential for the NPSL, as well as the RCL, the PSPL, the state league and the MLS

Soccer Wonk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2011, 03:36:20 PM »

"... the NPSL is pleased report it has recorded the lowest average goal differentiation in all matches played. Logging a superior match average goal differential (GD) of 1.26 ..."

Seems pretty clear the calculation is based on the average goal differential or margin of victory per match. Subtract one team's count of goals scored in a match from the other team's count of goals scored in that match, take the absolute value, do it for every match played and add the total, divide by the number of matches.

True that if you were to take every team's goal differential (approximately half the teams have positive differentials, half have negative differentials), add them up, divide by the number of teams, the result would be zero. You have to be careful that you don't divide the number of teams by the aggregate goal differential. If you mix them up, you get a divide-by-zero error, and the United States Soccer Federation would crash.

skagitcoach · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2011, 03:41:32 PM »

Soccer wonk, exactly right! Trouble is, the NPSL release didn't call it average margin of victory. They called it average goal differentiation (differential) in all matches. Not the same thing!

ckunited · « **Reply #12 on:** December 13, 2011, 03:45:41 PM »

Folks at NPSL are great. We played last year in Div. 2 of the GU16 league as a '96 team (U14) not knowing what to expect. We wound up 10-0 with a +43 GD. This year it was a simple request to have our team play in Div. 1 GU16-GU18. Although we were "misplaced" last year, it's a learning process and should continue to get better every year. I found the league to be well ran and organized.

EWSoccer64 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2011, 05:17:40 PM »

Quote from: skagitcoach on December 13, 2011, 03:41:32 PM

Soccer wonk, exactly right! Trouble is, the NPSL release didn't call it average margin of victory. They called it average goal differentiation (differential) in all matches. Not the same thing!

Ah, but you are using positive and negatives to offset one another, rather using absolutes. A negative 1 Goal per game average is still a goal per game average.

Next up, string theory and quantum physics.........

Hit_the_Heifer · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2011, 05:36:07 PM »

Quote from: ckunited on December 13, 2011, 03:45:41 PM

Folks at NPSL are great. We played last year in Div. 2 of the GU16 league as a '96 team (U14) not knowing what to expect. We wound up 10-0 with a +43 GD. This year it was a simple request to have our team play in Div. 1 GU16-GU18. Although we were "misplaced" last year, it's a learning process and should continue to get better every year. I found the league to be well ran and organized.

I am curious how team based in Silverdale fits into the cost/convenience model espoused in the press release. Drive to ferry terminal in either Edmonds or downtown Seattle. Wait for ferry. Load. 30 min ferry ride. 30 drive from either Bainbridge Island or Kingston to reach Silverdale. Play game. Do over in reverse. Round trip commute time: 4 hours. Plus, very expensive commute because of ferry ride. ". . . .the NPSL has been able to deliver the shortest average travel commutes to matches. This gives back to the NPSL families the one element that is in shortest supply … weekend time!"

ckunited · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2011, 06:08:43 PM »

In a perfect world a team would have enough competitve matches in their backyard.

metz123 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2011, 06:55:57 PM »

Quote from: Hit_the_Heifer on December 13, 2011, 05:36:07 PM

Quote from: ckunited on December 13, 2011, 03:45:41 PM
Folks at NPSL are great. We played last year in Div. 2 of the GU16 league as a '96 team (U14) not knowing what to expect. We wound up 10-0 with a +43 GD. This year it was a simple request to have our team play in Div. 1 GU16-GU18. Although we were "misplaced" last year, it's a learning process and should continue to get better every year. I found the league to be well ran and organized.

I am curious how team based in Silverdale fits into the cost/convenience model espoused in the press release. Drive to ferry terminal in either Edmonds or downtown Seattle. Wait for ferry. Load. 30 min ferry ride. 30 drive from either Bainbridge Island or Kingston to reach Silverdale. Play game. Do over in reverse. Round trip commute time: 4 hours. Plus, very expensive commute because of ferry ride. ". . . .the NPSL has been able to deliver the shortest average travel commutes to matches. This gives back to the NPSL families the one element that is in shortest supply … weekend time!"

Just the fact that this trip happens once a season for the teams not based in Silverdale instead of every weekend. Average out the travel time over the course of the season and it's probably an hour round trip for most NPSL teams to away games. No matter how you slice it, it's better than RCL and PSPL (and even when I had teams playing D3 out of district 2). I don't think the NPSL needed to expand to the peninsula or BI at the younger age groups but they wanted to expand a little at the younger ages in hopes of strengthening the league at the older ages. I can live with that.

tripleplay · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2011, 06:56:35 PM »

One thing that shows the NPSL's thoughtfulness is that divisions are not the same size. They form the divisions based on who the teams are and what would make competitive sense.

Futsal · « **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2011, 07:11:21 PM »

Quote from: Soccer Wonk on December 13, 2011, 03:36:20 PM

"... the NPSL is pleased report it has recorded the lowest average goal differentiation in all matches played. Logging a superior match average goal differential (GD) of 1.26 ..."

Seems pretty clear the calculation is based on the average goal differential or margin of victory per match. Subtract one team's count of goals scored in a match from the other team's count of goals scored in that match, take the absolute value, do it for every match played and add the total, divide by the number of matches.

True that if you were to take every team's goal differential (approximately half the teams have positive differentials, half have negative differentials), add them up, divide by the number of teams, the result would be zero. You have to be careful that you don't divide the number of teams by the aggregate goal differential. If you mix them up, you get a divide-by-zero error, and the United States Soccer Federation would crash.

I believe that the press release stated a "Match" goal differential. While the sum of a leagues team goal differential which would be zero ... the sum of the goal differential of matches would a positive number.

People usually mistake competitive leagues with how high up the food chain it is ... when in fact all would be best served if every league had a low Match goal differential.

Redkard · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2011, 09:27:04 PM »

The best leagues were TPCJSA home league at U11 and U12.

The Leann Ehnat championship games for both boys and girls all went to overtime with three of the four games going to kicks from the mark.

Now that is balance!

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Author Topic: NPSL Delivers Most Competitive Select Matches for Fall 2011 (Read 1016 times)