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[Southend soccer mom]

WSYSA -  oops I meant Washington Youth Soccer  - are proposing to change their bylaws. Thoughts?

http://www.wsysa.com/Resources/Administrators/WAYouthSoccerProposesBylawsAmendments/tabid/1865/language/en-US/Default.aspx
http://www.wsysa.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=EHw4R9GONfE%3d&tabid=1865&language=en-US

[lastplanet]

Looks like they are dropping clubs that have less than 1000 players.  I wonder how many clubs that would affect.  That's like 66 teams with a roster of 15 each, although that's for the member association so maybe it doesn't affect many clubs.

[Edson Arantes]

This one under membership stands out for me:

5.1.3 Washington Youth Soccer offers organizations and individuals the opportunity to access Washington Youth Soccer services through a paid membership in Washington Youth Soccer. This is separate from being a legal member. (italics added)

I can see where this leads the way to hiking player fees, adding different classes of people (coaches, admins) that need to be paid members, as a way to increase revenues to pay for Fisher and White's lunch bill and car payment (Lexus, Audi).

No shame- none.

[Edson Arantes]

Oh yeah- that oath of loyalty that you have to take also... 

[Bathos]

Oh yeah- that oath of loyalty that you have to take also... 

That's a brilliant catch all, and pairs up nicely with the section that says WSYSA, er, Washington Youth Soccer, gains all the assets of any dissolved association.

[EWSoccer64]

It's funny, whenever I click on a link given by the WSYSA on their links, it comes up with an error message.
Hit WSYSA Code of Ethics and I get the same "Internal  error has occured" which for some reason I find both appropriate and hilarious.

[Futsal]

Looks like they are dropping clubs that have less than 1000 players.  I wonder how many clubs that would affect.  That's like 66 teams with a roster of 15 each, although that's for the member association so maybe it doesn't affect many clubs.

The 1000 players is referring to Associations not clubs.

[wit]

WYS players register through associations and not clubs so I would'nt read too much into the 1000 player limit other than the fact that if was probably done that way so you can't just break away from an existing association and form your own and join WYS. Most State Associations have minimum requirements for membership to stop rogue teams/clubs/leagues so that is not unusual to see.

What WYS have done with all these proposed changes is tightened up the rules somewhat and made associations most accountable, most people would consider that a good thing.

[Brat Jr]

Oh yeah- that oath of loyalty that you have to take also... 

That's a brilliant catch all, and pairs up nicely with the section that says WSYSA, er, Washington Youth Soccer, gains all the assets of any dissolved association.

Why would the state step in and take what isn't theirs to take? Wouldn't a dissovled assoc give the money to their participating Clubs in that association? Depending on their by-laws of course..

As for the oath of loyalty...  if I remember correctly, it was stated that 'I won't talk bad about WYS " in any printed media ( web forums etc ) Sorry WYS, if you are screwing up, you WILL be called on it!
We may be just a lowly CPs', but our voices will be heard, whether it is on here or on the sidelines or on your own forums/facebook page.

[inthenet]

The mission of the USSF:
Federation’s mission statement has been very simple and very clear: to make soccer, in all its forms, a preeminent sport in the United States and to continue the development of soccer at all recreational and competitive levels.

The mission of WSYSA:
5.1.5 All Member Associations have a duty of loyalty to Washington Youth Soccer and shall support and promote the mission, purpose, activities and decisions of Washington Youth Soccer. No Member Associations of Washington Youth Soccer or their directors, officers, employees, volunteers and committee members shall engage themselves in a Washington Youth Soccer position or function in an effort to secure an advantage for another organization or individual, or for their personal or business gain.  Any potential conflict of interest shall be declared in a disclosure statement to the Board, either voluntarily or upon the request of the Executive Committee. If a conflict of interest is evident, the Board shall request the withdrawal of the person or recommend an investigation.

WSYSA wishes to change their mission of promoting soccer, to promoting WSYSA, changing their bylaws, forcing associations members to disclose all meeting minutes, anything that may conflict with the bottom line at WSYSA and then allowing them to have the ability to investigate or remove anyone with the "potential" conflict of interest. 

Does WSYSA consider

• Seattle Sounders FC (MLS)
  Professional Development Leagues (Crossfire PDL)
  US Soccer Development Academy
  Elite Club National League
  US Youth Soccer National League
  Puget Sounder Premier League
  Northwest Champions League
  US Club Regional's
  YMCA
  Parks Department Programs
  Boys and Girls Clubs
  Indoor Sports Leagues (All facilities)
  SAY Soccer
  UK Elite Soccer
  British Soccer Camps
  NW Soccer Camps
  Peter Fewing Soccer Camps

.... to name a few conflicts of interest.

[inthenet]

Changing the mission of promoting soccer in WA, to demanding loyalty to the "party" WSYSA is an old tried and tested tactic of dictators.

".... Loyalty in character means absolute obedience that does not question the results of the order nor its reasons, but rather obeys for the sake of obedience itself. Such obedience is an expression of heroic character when following the order leads to personal disadvantage or seems even to contradict one’s personal convictions. Adolf Hitler’s strength as a leader is that he almost always works through the power of his persuasion; rarely does he command. He must know, however, that when he commands, or allows a command to be given, that it will be obeyed absolutely, down to the last block warden.

The power and effectiveness of a good organization is even greater when discipline prevails. The greater its obedience even in small things, the more clearly it marches to the right or the left depending on the command of the leader, the more exactly the command to march in short or long steps is followed, the more surely the Führer can take the steps necessary to realize the National Socialist program."

The Oath to Adolf Hitler
Speech by Rudolf Hess on 25 February 1934

[Soccer Wonk]

Invoking the Third Reich? Really?

The Duty of Loyalty is a fundamental precept of corporate law, in both the for-profit and non-profit sectors.

[EWSoccer64]

Invoking the Third Reich? Really?

The Duty of Loyalty is a fundamental precept of corporate law, in both the for-profit and non-profit sectors.

Actually, there are higher duties than the Duty of Loyalty in corporate law, which is recognized by the law itself.

In anycase, does our discussion even matter?   Does not El Presidente for Life and his hand packed board control all bylaw changes now?   Or do associations have the right to vote on something other than the state player fees?

[Soccer Wonk]

The board is bound by fiduciary duty and under the mechanism outlined in the by-laws to listen to the reasoned comments of the associations before revising and enacting them. Technically, yes, the board could ignore all the comments. But that wouldn't go over well in the next election cycle.

[anyudes]

My guess is yes, they consider those conflicts. I however see them as choices in the market and am glad they are there. They will leverage The State's wallet the most. The newest example is Junior RCL as a reaction to PSPL. We will see if it works as The State is now Microsoft to US Club's Google - at least as innovators.

Does WSYSA consider

• Seattle Sounders FC (MLS)
  Professional Development Leagues (Crossfire PDL)
  US Soccer Development Academy
  Elite Club National League
  US Youth Soccer National League
  Puget Sounder Premier League
  Northwest Champions League
  US Club Regional's
  YMCA
  Parks Department Programs
  Boys and Girls Clubs
  Indoor Sports Leagues (All facilities)
  SAY Soccer
  UK Elite Soccer
  British Soccer Camps
  NW Soccer Camps
  Peter Fewing Soccer Camps

.... to name a few conflicts of interest.

[EWSoccer64]

The board is bound by fiduciary duty and under the mechanism outlined in the by-laws to listen to the reasoned comments of the associations before revising and enacting them. Technically, yes, the board could ignore all the comments. But that wouldn't go over well in the next election cycle.

Ah yes, just like at the last elections, eh? 
Let's change the bylaws and stack the board, and not give the associations any chance to counteract the demands of El Presidente for Life.

But worry not, Soccer Wonk, I blame the associations more than I do El Presidente and his flunkies.   Just like in Italy and in Germany, democracy died at the ballot box when those responsible decided to follow someone who claimed that he could make "the trains run on time" and did not care how that came to be.

The mission of the WSYSA is to become to promote itself, not the best interests of the children playing soccer, not the sport of youth soccer, not the sport in general.   The mission is to become to promote itself.   That is not just wrong in a youth oriented association, it is wrong in any charitable non-profit.   There used to be an ethics portion on the bar exam, and every reputable law school included ethics as part of their curiculem.  With all the lawyers involved with El Presidente's junta, one would think that someone, somewhere, had the temerity to raise their hand and say "wait a minute".............   But apparently not.  It is in the nature of totalitarian political organizations that common sense and ethics get tossed aside as everyone, no matter how highly placed, strives to follow the latest whims of El Presidente, or the Leader, or the Dear Leader, or the Generalissimo, or Party Secretary, or whatever El Supremo decides to title himself.

For those who disliked the reference to the Hitler Loyalty Oath before, perhaps they would like a riff on "Animal Farm" better?   One could really do a very accurate send up of the State Leadership as the pigs in animal farm - and even some of the other animals, eh Mr. Snow?  We all know who Napoleon is, and the RCL DoCs would be the dogs.     Would that be more palatable to those who object to drawing paralells?

[EWSoccer64]

For those who are not savvy to classical political satire (and no, we are not going to go as far back as "eating Irish Babies"), perhaps this will be a better alegory:

"There are 9 Rings of Power, whose holders became the Wraiths,
"And there is ONE RING to Rule them all"
RCL and El Presidente, anyone?

then you can have the White Wizard who went off and tried to emulate those guys on his own, until the Ents destroyed him?
Yes, Chicken Wing, I am referring to you and your cheating PSPL and the Ents will be the empowered parents who actually do not want to be envolved in a lieing, cheating organization.

Then there is the Brotherhood of the Ring, the disparate, multi-cultured band from many lands (OOH, that must hurt, eh TP?) who come together to fight against the great evil and destroy it.

Funny how He Who Shalt Not Be Capitalized has not spoken out on this.  Perhaps he has just given up entirely...............Like so many others.

Hey Dragon, How about coming up with a "12 Scandels of Christmas" song about the WYS?   I can already see a couple of verses floating in my head.

[EWSoccer64]

Oh yeah- that oath of loyalty that you have to take also... 

That's a brilliant catch all, and pairs up nicely with the section that says WSYSA, er, Washington Youth Soccer, gains all the assets of any dissolved association.

Why would the state step in and take what isn't theirs to take? Wouldn't a dissovled assoc give the money to their participating Clubs in that association? Depending on their by-laws of course..

As for the oath of loyalty...  if I remember correctly, it was stated that 'I won't talk bad about WYS " in any printed media ( web forums etc ) Sorry WYS, if you are screwing up, you WILL be called on it!
We may be just a lowly CPs', but our voices will be heard, whether it is on here or on the sidelines or on your own forums/facebook page.

Brat,

Also notice that any association that is suspended as of the end of the year automatically is terminated.  Meaning that all their assets, fields, equipment, field houses, etc etc etc reverts to state ownership for disposition as it sees fit.
Also notice that the State Operations Committee (or whatever they are calling their board at the time) has the power to suspend an association.
Suspend an association on December 20th, let them appeal, appeal to be heard on January 2nd.
VIOLA - WYS (This bastard does not deserve the long standing WSYSA initials) owns everything there.  By the rules that have been duly approved.

[Soccer Wonk]

Hey Dragon, How about coming up with a "12 Scandels of Christmas" song about the WYS?   I can already see a couple of verses floating in my head.

On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me,
An Om-ni-po-tent D-o-C .....

[Soccer Wonk]

On the second day of Christmas, my true love gave to me,
Two crazy parents,
And an omnipotent D-o-C.

[EWSoccer64]

On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me,
Twelve New Bylaws, to ensure me in per-pet-tuity..............

On the eleventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me;
eleven banned unpaid volunteers
votes from ten profiteers,
nine judicial victories................
eight more paid state administrators,
seven clubs leaving WYS,

On Six day of Christmas, my true love gave to me,
Six Big Clubs to do anything,
Five Board Member votes,
Four rival organizations,
Three rivals to me,
Two Crazy Parents,
and One Omnipotent D-0-C

[EWSoccer64]

Anyone who actually reads through the proposed changes cannot, unless they are a monarchist/statist/fascist/stalinist at heart, approve of them.  They codify the prinicple that everything and everyone belongs to, and all power derives from, the WYS.   And the Leadership of the WYS will have the power to forever more determine who is going to be the Leadership of the WYS.

Let's take a leap of faith and believe that Doug Andreasson believes that everything he has done as president and is planning to do is for the betterment of all the players playing or going to play youth soccer in the state.   That is an easy arguement to make.   These rules also assume that he will live forever and be the same benevolent dictator that his supporters claim him to be.   What if the next guy is Richard Nixon or Tony Benn or Vlad Lenin?

Imagine a truely malevolent, self $erving creature in the position to control who gets approved to be elected, who appoints who fills any vacancies if no one gets elected, who has the power to eliminate associations who angers him, and who wants to rape the public for as much money as they can fleece.   Let's call this person Gregor Atom, who is an influential Director of Coaching who has a history of fleeceing the kids and families under his dominion.  And Tsar Gregor, who has already established a pattern of paying off his compatriot DoCs with various consultancy contracts or board positions on the companies he controls, gets control of the reins of power.   Anyone think that someone who does not blink twice about setting up multiple mechanisms to fleece the families paying for youth soccer would turn the WYS into his personal money churning empire?  And pass some out to his friends like Don Jaime up north, etc.

Just on the initial reading, I saw more than 20 serious, game stopping problems/issues with the proposed changes.  I stopped keeping count.  If I were part of the USCS, I would copy out the changes, explain what they meant and what could happen, and send them to every single person in the WSYSA.  This could be the greatest recruiting tool the USCS ever had in this state, even greater than the creation of the RCL.

[drarcher]

WSYSA -  oops I meant Washington Youth Soccer  - are proposing to change their bylaws. Thoughts?

http://www.wsysa.com/Resources/Administrators/WAYouthSoccerProposesBylawsAmendments/tabid/1865/language/en-US/Default.aspx
http://www.wsysa.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=EHw4R9GONfE%3d&tabid=1865&language=en-US

For anyone who wants to read the actual changes. The redline version is the best:
http://www.wsysa.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WxOjlyKTunw%3d&tabid=1865&language=en-US

[tripleplay]

An alternate, open, approach to membership:
http://www.calsouth.com/en/affiliate-application/youth-requirements/

WYS employs a closed approach. Existing members get to choose or exclude new members for almost any reason or for no reason. Existing members get to create arbitrary requirements on new members (such as high membership requirements in these amendments).

Soccerwonk, where is the "loyalty" language in the CalSouth bylaws? Non-profits exist to serve the public interest, in this case by providing soccer opportunities for youth. Soccer organizations don't exist to serve themselves. You seem to have forgotten that.

[metz123]

Let's not delude ourselves here. Cal south has a section in their (37 page) bylaws where they reserve the right to boot any affiliate that isn't acting in the best interests of Cal South. They, however, do not ask for a pledge of loyalty, nor do they assume the assets of any affiliate they remove. They also clearly define financial conflicts of interest between the directors on their board and those directors outside interests (something the PSPL and US Club soccer might want to take a look at).

I certainly prefer the Cal South model of loosely federated associations over the WYS model of top down hierarchy.

[tripleplay]

Let's not delude ourselves here. Cal south has a section in their (37 page) bylaws where they reserve the right to boot any affiliate that isn't acting in the best interests of Cal South.

Not quite. Removal of a member comes after a "good faith determination by the Board, or a committee or person authorized by the Board to
make such a determination, that an Affiliate Member has failed in a material and serious degree to observe the Rules and Procedures, or has engaged in conduct materially and seriously prejudicial to the Corporation’s purposes and interests." Recall that WYS previously wished to remove an officer of an member Association without any finding of even the slightest rule breaking or showing that it affected WYS' interests in any material way whatsoever.

Soccerwonk notwithstanding, arbitrary membership requirements and loyalty oaths are not common in the non-profit world. I suppose theoretically my local food bank could arbitrarily refuse food donations from people it didn't like, but why would they? If the food's edible and people need it, what would be the point? You aren't trying to beat other food banks - you're trying to get food to people who need it.

[Futsal]

Brat,

Also notice that any association that is suspended as of the end of the year automatically is terminated.  Meaning that all their assets, fields, equipment, field houses, etc etc etc reverts to state ownership for disposition as it sees fit.
Also notice that the State Operations Committee (or whatever they are calling their board at the time) has the power to suspend an association.
Suspend an association on December 20th, let them appeal, appeal to be heard on January 2nd.
VIOLA - WYS (This bastard does not deserve the long standing WSYSA initials) owns everything there.  By the rules that have been duly approved.

The only time I could see this clause being implemented is if an Association BoD disolved itself while being a member of WYS.

Each Association is a non-profit business within the state of Washington and whether they are member of WYS does not have bearing on their corporate status.  WYS cannot disolve an Association they can merely remove them as a member of WYS.  Just because an Association might vote at their AGM to leave WYS does not mean that they could not still exist as an Association of teams/clubs.

[EWSoccer64]

Brat,

Also notice that any association that is suspended as of the end of the year automatically is terminated.  Meaning that all their assets, fields, equipment, field houses, etc etc etc reverts to state ownership for disposition as it sees fit.
Also notice that the State Operations Committee (or whatever they are calling their board at the time) has the power to suspend an association.
Suspend an association on December 20th, let them appeal, appeal to be heard on January 2nd.
VIOLA - WYS (This bastard does not deserve the long standing WSYSA initials) owns everything there.  By the rules that have been duly approved.

The only time I could see this clause being implemented is if an Association BoD disolved itself while being a member of WYS.

Each Association is a non-profit business within the state of Washington and whether they are member of WYS does not have bearing on their corporate status.  WYS cannot disolve an Association they can merely remove them as a member of WYS.  Just because an Association might vote at their AGM to leave WYS does not mean that they could not still exist as an Association of teams/clubs.

But Futsal, by agreeing to this "set of state  association bylaws", the local association is committing itself to :
A) Stay with the WYS Forever.
B)  If it is dissolved, voluntarily or involuntarily, to turn over all its property and asets to the WYS.
C)  Registering all its players within WSYSA.

By these commitments, if an association chose to leave WYS, it would turn over its assets to WYS.

[Old Dog]

What if,

For years I run a United Way local, I raise funds and turn them over to my parent. The folks that come my way believe in what I am doing and who I am affiliated with.

Fast Forward,

One day I wake up and decide (while sitting on some assets) that someone at United way pissed me off and I no longer wish to support them.

I decide to take the funds and my fund raising pipeline to start funding a legalise POT movement (or what ever) and really dont explain to my donors what really is going on.

Does United Way have a right to step in? I see this as more of a business question then a soccer question. Any good business folks have an idea?

[Futsal]

But Futsal, by agreeing to this "set of state  association bylaws", the local association is committing itself to :
A) Stay with the WYS Forever.
B)  If it is dissolved, voluntarily or involuntarily, to turn over all its property and asets to the WYS.
C)  Registering all its players within WSYSA.

By these commitments, if an association chose to leave WYS, it would turn over its assets to WYS.

A) No one can force someone to stay forever ... even WYS's affiliation with USYS is year to year.

B) The relationship between a local Association and WYS is an affiliation not a merger.  WYS does not have the power to dissolve a local Association but it does have the power to remove its affiliation.  Removing the affiliation is different than disolution of the corporation.   

c) Registering all its players with WYS has been the norm for a long time.  Associations are not clubs but are closer to the function of a league by definition.  They have always been required to register all their players to WYS.  However ... within the Association, a club could have teams registered with USCS ... these teams are not members of the Association and are not subject to registration.