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[ThiKuBC]

drarcher is correct. It is the parents' job to demand kids get rest. My parents were elated I gave their kids a rest period in our 1 day, 3 game tournament (the games were 2x20halves). They were also pleased I brought a squad of 15 players rather than the usual 12. (The kids are 11 years old).

[tripleplay]

Drarcher's premise, unsupported by evidence, is that soccer players are so weak and feeble that they can't handle even the minimum recommendations for physical activity. Sorry, I just don't see it. Soccer players are at least average as a group and many are clearly superior athletes.

I didn't say anything about money/trophies. It's about letting kids have fun. The focus should be on how to provide games (fun) in a time-efficient and cost-effective manner. And if ThikuBC is coaching a group with low capabilities or whose sports interests are divided multiple ways, then great for him. But not everyone is like that. Some people are average, or even above, and want to play a few sports or a single sport. Pele claimed to play soccer every day of his life when growing up. Thank goodness ThikuBC  and drarcher  weren't around to police him!

[tripleplay]

For the record, elite gymnasts have some of the most severe issues recorded of over training as youths. Most of them have major physiological issues in their late teens/early 20's and many girls report drastically late onset of puberty along with stunted growth and development. I am sure you will find another example. sigh.

The elites are going 2000 hours/year. The normal non-elite (like a level 7) will be around 1000 hours/year, without problems. So I think you have a case if you are talking about 2000 hours/year. We are talking about soccer levels about 10% of that, and significantly less than minimum recommended activity levels. No case.

[futbol123]

The parents reported their kids were happier the next day, recovered quickly, and eager to get back to training whereas when they play many full games (or extended minutes if not full) over a weekend the kids weren't eager to get back to practice for a good while after.
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I think this is where your team differs from ours. I can tell you that our girls can play a 4-5 game tournament and still be eager to get back to practice right away. I definitely think rest is a necessity but I think it can be based on a game by game basis and not just a "rule". We do lots of traveling tournaments and the coach is excellent at giving everyone rest when needed while not having rules put in place.

[ThiKuBC]

TP - Yer full of assumption today I see. why would you assume the players are of lower capability? They are in the elite group for their age. They (and their parents) are smart enough to know that playing 3 games (even if shortened) in one day isn't ideal! Where did I say there interests are divided multiple ways? I must have been reading a different thread. Yeesh. Why must I repeat myself? I've already said they enjoyed themselves. Unless you think it isn't possible for an elite athlete (for their age group) know their limitations and the long-term benefit of rest? In which case you think either they or me are lying?

So you want kids to have fun, play in a time-efficient and cost-effective manner. Great. So do I. So how exactly is that goal not being achieved by having kids play reduced minutes in 1 out of 3-4 tournament games? Especially when the kids report they are having fun and can't wait for the next tournament!? When they report "I really liked having a rest game." ??

Re: Pele - In fact I encourage the kids to play and practice on their own every single day, and give them plenty of examples of fun ways to do that. Keep in mind this thread is about games not training.


You've yet to answer why you think it's OK for kids to play up to 60 games in a year, when even adults aren't supposed to play that many? Soccer is not other sports. It definitely isn't gymnastics. In fact, I'd suggest a closely related sport might be long-distance running or power lifting. Both of those must have significant breaks in between as the body requires extended recovery periods and to have a very periodized training process - similar to soccer. Although incredibly different sports, the similarities in training and intensive activity such as competition are not so far off.


When a discussion goes against you, you really try to redirect it eh?

Anyway, a bit of math. 1000 hours of training per year. That's 1000 hours divided by 365 days a year. Equals 2.7 hours per day rounded down. This doesn't take into account holidays and other days off, which would then raise the hours per day. This number you give may or may not take into account competition/game days. I am not sure if you included that or not. So you take away major holidays, various other days off and what you are suggesting is kids should be training for over 3 hours a day? Only elite soccer programs for more senior teens are doing that in professional environments. ie, Barcelona.

I will skip over the gymnastics convo as I am not a part of it. However, a quick good search clarified very quickly the very real concerns that come with overtraining in that sport - not least of which the psychological impacts that can come and are very real.

[ThiKuBC]

The parents reported their kids were happier the next day, recovered quickly, and eager to get back to training whereas when they play many full games (or extended minutes if not full) over a weekend the kids weren't eager to get back to practice for a good while after.
.

I think this is where your team differs from ours. I can tell you that our girls can play a 4-5 game tournament and still be eager to get back to practice right away. I definitely think rest is a necessity but I think it can be based on a game by game basis and not just a "rule". We do lots of traveling tournaments and the coach is excellent at giving everyone rest when needed while not having rules put in place.

Yep, every situation is different, and I hear you. Certainly a game-by-game situation is fair enough. haha, I guess I should clarify that I am not at the kids' house on the Monday or Tuesday after the tournament. Maybe they are eager to come back to training by then, but at the end of the tourney when I say "no practice for such and such days" they are pretty stoked. And yes, they are elite. But they also want rest, recovery, and time to do other things as all other 11 year olds do.

[tripleplay]

You misread. I said that no soccer players come close to the 1000 hour level that a non-elite middle school gymnast endures without ill-effect. So it stands to reason that there should be many soccer players who can endure the  much lower levels being talked about here (250 hours/year)

Long distance running and soccer are opposite ends of the sports spectrum. Running is almost entirely conditioning. Soccer is cumulative skill acquisition. But even given that, any serious marathoner will train more than the allegedly dangerous 200 hours/year.

Why is it OK to play soccer games? Why wouldn't it be OK? Most kids enjoy playing games. That's why. Now if you're flying to California to play 3 games and driving to Spokane to play one game, it will get very expensive and start to feel tedious. That may have been what is going on with the poster's question. But the "health" angle is just plain silly.

[drarcher]

The parents reported their kids were happier the next day, recovered quickly, and eager to get back to training whereas when they play many full games (or extended minutes if not full) over a weekend the kids weren't eager to get back to practice for a good while after.
.

I think this is where your team differs from ours. I can tell you that our girls can play a 4-5 game tournament and still be eager to get back to practice right away. I definitely think rest is a necessity but I think it can be based on a game by game basis and not just a "rule". We do lots of traveling tournaments and the coach is excellent at giving everyone rest when needed while not having rules put in place.

Yep, every situation is different, and I hear you. Certainly a game-by-game situation is fair enough. haha, I guess I should clarify that I am not at the kids' house on the Monday or Tuesday after the tournament. Maybe they are eager to come back to training by then, but at the end of the tourney when I say "no practice for such and such days" they are pretty stoked. And yes, they are elite. But they also want rest, recovery, and time to do other things as all other 11 year olds do.

My teams have always cheered for a day off after a tournament and I have had ODP players on my squad in Nor Cal. They have lives outside of soccer like any healthy kid should.

[breakaway]

my self and other parents have being saying way too many games ,  but now we all  know he is a trophy coach and half of the parents will  not let DD play for him nay more .  and what funny about it the DOC has done nothing  well can't really call him an DOC  director of the select programm .

Sixty games?  Seventy games?   Fabulous.  Your team will likely do well at this age and at U-12.  By U-13, half or more of the players will be gone from the team.  By U-15, if the team exists at all, odds are that there will 3 or less of the current roster left on it.     But the coach will proudly display all the trophies and victories on his resume.

What is the aim of your kid, your family, and the members of the team?  Answer those questions and you will know if your team is playing too many games.

Too funny, when my oldest was this age, her team was criticized so badly for playing 70 plus games. I find in interesting how views have changed over the past couple years.

[MarkyMark]

Hey here's an idea. How about if parents try listening to their kids. I got the wake up call a few years back when my DD hadn't been playing very well and seemed very dissinterested in playing soccer and I was getting frustrated when my daughter said "you know dad, my knee really hurts!". Well the light went on in my head and I immediately took her in to see a specialist. It turned out to be nothing more than some growing pains but now she does regular soccer specific fitness training to strengthen the knees. I have now taken a back seat to her developement. It's her body and she makes the call.

[tripleplay]

My teams have always cheered for a day off after a tournament ...

How exactly does this support the idea that they are playing too many games? Now if they were cheering when you cancelled tournaments/games, maybe you'd have a point.

And it's not that tournaments are physically taxing - it's that they take a long time and involve a commitment that typically makes it impossible to do other things that kids like to do. That lowers the cost/benefit ratio.

I have wondered if many teams might not benefit from having more games, but treating them less seriously. Have 60+ games on the schedule but then have more relaxed coaches who DON'T get upset when a player misses a few dozen for other sports, parties, family outings, rest etc.

[SoccerDadx2]

afternoon all, I didn't want to start a fire storm over my question just wanted to get this off my chest  and see if anyone else felt the same way.  i just feel some of these coaches are pushing our kids at a young age to hard , and i see so many kids just give up the games because it consume their lives  and parents  push and push their own childern until the kids blows a knee or worst .

i got an email from someone asking me which team my DD plays for . to be honest that none of your business !!!!   i am looking out for my DD health  period !!

thanks all for your input .