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EWSoccer64

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America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« on: January 15, 2012, 11:04:39 PM »

America in Decline, Point and CounterPoint

The following are 40 undeniable pieces of evidence that show that America is in decline….
 
#1 Back in 1985, 11 million vehicles were sold in America.  In 2009, only 5.4 million vehicles were sold in America.
Could part of the reason be the much higher quality of vehicles on the road today as compared to almost 30 yers ago?  There were no 100,000 mile warrenties back then, now they are common.   
However, the average age of a vehicle on the road today is over 11 years old, a post WW2 record, according to a newsblib on the radio.

 
#2 In 1990, the median age of a vehicle in the United States was just 6.5 years.  Today, the median age of a vehicle in the United States is approximately 10 years.
 
#3 The average price of a gallon of gasoline in 2011 has been $3.50.  That is a new all-time record.  The previous record was $3.24 in 2008.  Some analysts are predicting $5 a gallon this summer.    BUT - unless these numbers are adjusted for inlfation, they are not that meaningful, and comparisons are suspect at best.   However, remember that the US Government does not calculate fuel prices in its normal, new inflation index.
 
#4 The average American household will have spent an astounding $4,155 on gasoline by the time the year is over.
More than that if they have a kid in youth soccer!!!
 
#5 The number of children in the United States without a permanent home has increased by 38 percent since 2007.
I would have to see the criteria and standards to believe that.  Of course there has been the housing bust, and if by "permanent" they mean resident-owned, then I might be able to believe this number.
 
#6 A decade ago, the United States was ranked number one in average wealth per adult.  By 2010, the United States had fallen to seventh.
Not to big a surprise, particularly with the big jump in the price of oil.   I suspect that five of the "nations" that are now ahead of us are petro-countires.
 
#7 The U.S. tax code is now more than 50,000 pages longer than it used to be.
And do not forget all the regulations that are now in place, and ever growing.   Regulations and Complex tax codes (beloved by both parties) do more to kill jobs in America than all the cheap labor in China, Indonesia or South Surinam........
 
#8 American 15-year-olds do not even rank in the top half of all advanced nations when it comes to math or science literacy.
Many of these studies are comparing kids in the advanced academic tracks overseas with the average American HS student, which is really not fair.   On the other hand, take a look at a HS syllibus from the 1880s.  It was far more rigorous than what is required to graduate from HS today.
 
#9 The United States once had the highest proportion of young adults with post-secondary degrees in the world.  Today, the U.S. has fallen to 12th.
One should not be so concerned with the overall number of degrees, instead look at the ones which are most important.   Engineering, sciences, computers, and such, where we are also failing miserablly.   Personally, I count not having so many doctorates of underwater basketweaving or social studies as a posive thing.

 
#10 After adjusting for inflation, U.S. college students are borrowing about twice as much money as they did a decade ago.
And with less ability to repay, post graduation!
 
#11 The student loan default rate has nearly doubled since 2005.
And it is gonna get worse since the federal government recently nationalised the student loan program.
 
#12 Our economy is not producing nearly enough jobs for our college graduates.  The percentage of mail carriers with a college degree is now 4 times higher than it was back in 1970.
See the value of a degree in Journalism, English, Ethnic Studies or Political Science? 
 
#13 Our infrastructure was once the envy of the world.  Today, U.S. infrastructure is ranked 23rd.
When infrastructure programs are treated as government subsidies to unions and lower level governments, what does one expect?   The USA still spends considerably more on infrastructure every year than the next two nations combined.
 
#14 Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has declined by a total of 6.8% once you account for inflation.
Probably more, as the government inflation numbers are deliberately low, because of the skewed formula they use.
 
#15 Since the year 2000, incomes for U.S. households led by someone between the ages of 25 and 34 have fallen by about 12 percent after you adjust for inflation.
Less people are breaking out on their own nowadays, which will impact the numbers.  But also, there are less really well paying jobs available in the banking and finnance sectors for young entry level people.   All that being said, when income as a whole is falling for a nation, then this is to be expected.
 
#16 According to U.S. Representative Betty Sutton, America has lost an average of 15 manufacturing facilities a day over the last 10 years.  During 2010 it got even worse.  Last year, an average of 23 manufacturing facilities a day shut down in the United States.
Go back to the tax code and literally 100s of government organizations making regulations
 
#17 In all, more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities in the United States have shut down since 2001.
Yup
 
#18 The United States has lost a staggering 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
I believe that total manufacturing OUTPUT is actually up, as efficiency is constantly increasing.
 
#19 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry was actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.
No more tansistor tubes!
 
#20 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of all U.S. economic output.  In 2008, it represented only 11.5 percent.
And even adjusted for inflation, the $ value of manufacturing is up. 
 
#21 The television manufacturing industry began in the United States.  So how many televisions are manufactured in the United States today?  According to Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder, the grand total is zero.
And not the only industry like this, either.   We no longer have the ability to send astronauts into orbit.  That has been outsourced to RUSSIA.
 
#22 The U.S. trade deficit with China in 2010 was 27 times larger than it was back in 1990.
The USA made a deal with China - We give them free trade, and economic expansion, and they do not try to take over Asia militarily.
 
#23 The Economic Policy Institute says that since 2001 America has lost approximately 2.8 million jobs due to our trade deficit with China alone.
Easy to Believe.
 
#24 According to one study, between 1969 and 2009 the median wages earned by American men between the ages of 30 and 50 dropped by 27 percent after you account for inflation.
1969 was pretty much the high water mark of the USA compared to the rest of the world, in terms of "living fat". 
But also look at what took place in the mid sixties, followed by the 70s.    You had the economic policies the went along with the VietNam War expansion, the Great Society, and then the Regulation Envirorment started.   

 
#25 Back in 1980, less than 30% of all jobs in the United States were low income jobs.  Today, more than 40% of all jobs in the United States are low income jobs.   And it is going to get worse.    But I wonder where the Illegal Alien Workers are accounted for in this?
 
#26 The size of the economy in India is projected to surpass the size of the U.S. economy by the year 2050.
And China long before that.   So what?   When another country has 4 times our population, we expect them to live in poverty forever?  No.  So even if they achieve half our per capita income, with four times our population, they will have twice our economy/GDP/per capita income.
 
#27 One prominent economist believes that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.
More likely only twice as large.   But in part that depends on American Policies
 
#28 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use.  Today it ranks 15th.
And how do we rank in TV usage?  MTV watching?  Cell phone Usage?   Personal Computer ownership?  This figure to me means that other places are catching up, and that many of them have less viable alternatives.    I have little doubt that places like Qatar, Singapore and the UAE use more broadband than the USA does, per capita.   England would not be a surprise either, as TVs are taxed annually but computers are not.
 
#29 Back in the year 2000, 11.3% of all Americans were living in poverty.  Today, 15.1% of all Americans are living in poverty.
Poverty in the USA today includes having a home, a vehicle or bus pass, cable TV, internet, an HD TV, so much food that obesity is a bigger problem than hunger, medical care, etc. etc.
 
#30 Last year, 2.6 million more Americans dropped into poverty.  That was the largest increase that we have seen since the U.S. government began keeping statistics on this back in 1959.
If we add some more benefits to people in poverty, I bet that we can induce the number to go up even more.
 
#31 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 6.7% of all Americans are living in “extreme poverty”, and that is the highest level that has ever been recorded before.
Now this is a more serious problem.  Even discounting the homeless by choice, this is becoming a real problem.  However, correlate the number of people living in extreme poverty with their arrest records for drugs.  You will find a high correlation.
 
#32 The percentage of children living in poverty in the United States increased from 16.9 percent in 2006 to nearly 22 percent in 2010.  In the UK and in France the child poverty rate is well under 10 percent.
That is an apples and oranges comparison.  And go back to what "poverty" actually is now-a-days.   Once I read the criteria, I was shocked to learn that I had spent half my life living in poverty or extreme poverty.
 
#33 As I wrote about the other day, since 2007 the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30 percent.
And how many of them have parents who are citizens?
 
#34 A staggering 48.5% of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits.  Back in 1983, that number was below 30 percent.
And that number is going up.   The aim of the government is to make more people dependant upon the government.
 
#35 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid.  Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.
Wasn't it a relatively new program back then?   And America has aged considerably since then.   
 
#36 Between 1991 and 2007 the number of Americans between the ages of 65 and 74 that filed for bankruptcy rose by a staggering 178 percent.
laws have changed to make it easier and more beneficial to do so.   In the last few years, the pendulum has swung a bit the other way.
 
#37 Today, the “too big to fail” banks are larger than ever.  The total assets of the six largest U.S. banks increased by 39 percent between September 30, 2006 and September 30, 2011.
And the government has done NOTHING at all to stop the use of derivatives!   The use of derivatives is part of what casued MF Global to fail, and what caused the US Government to pump $100 BILLION into AIG and to extend to AIG the full backing of the US Government, to the tune of up to $2 TRILLION in potential debts. 
 
#38 Since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913, the U.S. dollar has lostover 95 percent of its purchasing power.
And what other currency that was arround in 1913 has done better?   Perhaps only the Swiss Franc.
 
#39 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.
And we have now surpassed the 100% Debt to GDP ratio.   Look out Greece, we are gonna catch up to you!!!!
 
#40 The U.S. national debt is now nearly 15 times larger than it was just 30 years ago.
Adjusted for inflation, is that about 4 times as large?
 
 
During a recent 60 Minutes interview, Barack Obama said that only 3 presidents in U.S. history accomplished more than he did during the first two years of his presidency….
 

“The issue here is not going be a list of accomplishments. As you said yourself, Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president — with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln — just in terms of what we’ve gotten done in modern history. But, you know, but when it comes to the economy, we’ve got a lot more work to do.”
 
He had to be joking, right?
 
Sadly, he was not joking.
 
But it is not just Barack Obama.  The truth is that both political parties are absolutely littered with con men, charlatans and corrupt politicians.
 
It is going to be up to the American people to get educated about how bad things have really gotten, to start demanding solutions, and to start voting much better people into positions of authority.
 
If dramatic changes are not made, our economy will continue to get worse and the decline of America will continue to accelerate.

To be fair, Obama has gotten alot accomplished legislatively in his 3 years in office. 
There is Obama Care, which is going to be extremely expensive, increase tax and regulatory burdens upon both citizens and businesses.
There is the Finnancial Reform Act of his, so that now we have governement committeees that decide if banks and insurance companies are hiring enough minorities to high positions.
There is the Energy Policies.
There is the "reset" of relations with Russia, the "engagement" with Iran, and the betrayal of US allies in Eastern Europe.
There is the Great Stimulus Package which was to keep unemployment below 8%.
Honestly, Obama has had much more of his legislative agenda passed than most presidents have.  Whether or not that is to his credit or not, depends upon your view of his legislative agenda.
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Left Foot

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 12:30:15 AM »

Here is more evidence of decline. Do you think the person who held the beliefs set forth below and stated them publically could get elected today?

[He] considered much of the New Testament of the Bible to be false. He described the stories as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors," describing Paul as the "first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications." He also described the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherence of our own nightly dreams." From his study of the Bible, [he] concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God.
Observing inter-denominational intolerance in the United States, he extended his skepticism to Protestant clergy. [He] wrote: "the serious enemies are the priests of the different religious sects, to whose spells on the human mind its improvement is ominous." "I join you...in sincere congratulations ... that a Protestant Popedom is no longer to disgrace the American history and character."


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EWSoccer64

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 12:41:39 AM »

Lefty, are you making an attack on Mormonism here? 

Here is more evidence of decline. Do you think the person who held the beliefs set forth below and stated them publically could get elected today?

[He] considered much of the New Testament of the Bible to be false. He described the stories as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors," describing Paul as the "first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications." He also described the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherence of our own nightly dreams." From his study of the Bible, [he] concluded that Jesus never claimed to be God.
Observing inter-denominational intolerance in the United States, he extended his skepticism to Protestant clergy. [He] wrote: "the serious enemies are the priests of the different religious sects, to whose spells on the human mind its improvement is ominous." "I join you...in sincere congratulations ... that a Protestant Popedom is no longer to disgrace the American history and character."



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Left Foot

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 12:53:49 AM »

Good one!

Nope.

But I dare say that the person who held the beliefs set forth above would have the same opinion of the book of Mormon.....
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EWSoccer64

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 12:13:57 AM »

ASk anyone you know in this state who is trying to run a business if this seems familiar.


I Tried to Open a Lemonade Stand
 
Posted by John Stossel | February 23, 2012

Want to open a business in America? It isn't easy.
 
In Midway, Georgia, a 14-year-old girl and and her 10 year old sister sold lemonade from their front yard. Two police officers bought some. But the next day, different officers ordered them to close their stand.
 
Their father went to city hall to try to find out why. The clerk laughed, and said she didn't know. Eventually, Police Chief Kelly Morningstar explained, "We were not aware of how the lemonade was made, who made the lemonade, and of what the lemonade was made with."
 
Give me a break. If she doesn't know, so what? But kids trying their first experiment with entrepreneurship are being shut down all over America. Officials in Hazelwood, Missouri ordered little girls to stop selling Girl Scout cookies.
 
It made me want to try to jump through the legal hoops required to open a simple lemonade stand in New York City. Here's some of what one has to do:
 
1)Register as sole proprietor with the County Clerk's Office (must be done in person)
 
2)Apply to the IRS for an Employer Identification Number
 
3)Complete 15-hr Food Protection Course!
 
4)After the course, register for an exam that takes 1 hr. You must score 70% to pass. (Sample question: "What toxins are associated with the puffer fish?") If you pass, allow 3-5 weeks for delivery of Food Protection Certificate.
 
5)Register for sales tax Certificate of Authority
 
6)Apply for a Temporary Food Service Establishment Permit. Must bring copies of the previous documents and completed forms to the Consumer Affairs Licensing Center.
 
Then, at least 21 days before opening your establishment, you must:
 
Arrange for an inspection with the Health Department's Bureau of Food Safety and Community Sanitation. It takes about 3 weeks to get your appointment. If you pass, you can set up a business once you:
 
-Buy a portable fire extinguisher from a company certified by the FDNY and set up a contract for waste disposal.
 
We couldn't finish the process. Had we been able to schedule our health inspection and open my stand legally, it would have taken us 65 days.
 
I sold lemonade anyway. I looked dumb hawking it with my giant fire extinguisher on the table.
 
Tourists told me they couldn't believe that I had to get "all those permits." A Pakistani man said, "That's crazy! You should move to Pakistan!"
 
But I don't want to move to Pakistan.
 
Politicians say, "We support entrepreneurs," but the bureaucrats make it hard. The Feds alone add 80,000 pages of new rules every year. Local governments add more. There are so many incomprehensible rules that even the bureaucrats can't tell you what's legal. In the name of public safety, politicians strangle opportunity.
.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/02/23/i-tried-open-lemonade-stand#ixzz1nGzz2eAw
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Left Foot

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 10:58:09 PM »

Good one!

Nope.

But I dare say that the person who held the beliefs set forth above would have the same opinion of the book of Mormon.....

Does this sound reasonable?

Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

EW, can you please explain Santorum's popularity?

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EWSoccer64

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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 12:38:26 AM »

Good one!

Nope.

But I dare say that the person who held the beliefs set forth above would have the same opinion of the book of Mormon.....

Does this sound reasonable?

Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

EW, can you please explain Santorum's popularity?



Counterpoints -
1)  I cannot really explain Santorum's popularity, I am not a fan of his.   If pressed, I would say that he is genuine, that he shows his his heartfelt beliefs, and that resonates with many people.

2)   I think that your rationale above for refusing to support a ban on abortion - a subject that I have never posted on, for or against - is very much flawed.  To a large extent, ethics and morality come from religious principles.   To refuse to acknowledge that in decrying or supporting any subject, including abortion, is not only disingenous, it is in itself immoral.   I freely acknowledge that some religous groups abide with abortion, just as some do not.   But religion is a major underpining of most systems of ethics and morality, from which any rational judgement of abortion must come from.  To deny that is in itself unreasonable.

3)   I fail to see where democracy "demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values.".  If the values expressed are religiously motivated but applicable universally, then they are not negated by being religously motivated.   If the values from the religion are not conducive to democracy, then they should be held up as such.   Various Islamic tenants come to mind.    Democracy is at its heart always a battle of ideas within a concrete framework of a a system of debate.  Religious influences are always in play in this debate.  The amount of influence that should be there is a valid subject for discussion, but to deny that any is or should be is rather infantile.
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Re: America In Decline - Point and Counterpoints
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 10:52:22 AM »

Wow!  Was all of that just to say that all religious people demand theocracy?  I agree with EW that it would depend on the content of the religion.  In my beliefs, God offered me the chance to follow him.  He didn't compel me with force.  Which leads to the differing approaches as to whether charity should come from individuals or should be compelled (by force) by addressing human problems with redundant, inefficient federal programs.

Back to the topic of the thread, I believe the problem lies in our attempt (concious or not) to create laws that will prevent every undesirable outcome.  It is ridiculous to think we can pre-legislate away all that ails mankind.  And in our attempt to make certain that we are addressing every potential hazard, we are creating reams of new laws that cannot possibly be followed and we are shutting down everything from energy production to children's lemonade stands in the process. 
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