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[chapsasoccerdad]

Who do you think is winning this fight? The state has lost thousands of kids to US Club recently.  Is the state just going to be left with RCL? 

[drarcher]

US Club will eventually win. They have already won in most states and in some of the biggest. Why do you think the top teams in the top clubs duel register? Because they know if they want to play the top clubs in other states they have to go through US Club.

[SHARK]

US Club will eventually win. They have already won in most states and in some of the biggest. Why do you think the top teams in the top clubs duel register? Because they know if they want to play the top clubs in other states they have to go through US Club.

Bold statements with absolutely no data to back it up. Is this your opinion or do you have facts?

From an administration standpoint US Club has traditionally been much easier for teams/clubs that do a lot of out of state travel for tournaments etc. It is my opinion that this is the main reason for dual registration.

[Hit_the_Heifer]

Who is winning?  Depends on how you define winning.  In terms of trends, US Club has increased its market share.  The question then become whether US Club's growth in Washington has come at WYSA's expense, or whether the overall pie has increased in size.  I have neither the time, nor the desire, to analyze the data but my unscientific conclusion is that US Club's growth has come at the expense of WYSA.  

Is WYSA going to be left only with RCL?  No.  WYSA's primary product is and will continue to be RCL, but WYSA will continue to have some rec/select teams and leagues, if for no other reason that it needs the revenue stream.

Prediction:  US Club's business model is "club-centric."  Historically, WYSA was just the opposite.  Associations, as opposed to Clubs, were the focus in WYSA.  WYSA is realizing that US Club's model is very appealing to Clubs.  WYSA is grasping that it is the Clubs, not Associations, that drive the youth soccer industry and hence WYSA is now making an effort to change their business model.  

[g97dad]

ECNL is US Club and most ECNL teams are dropping out of RCL and State Cup tournaments.  The ECNL model is to have more practice and fewer higher quality games.

[billybuck]

ECNL is US Club and most ECNL teams are dropping out of RCL and State Cup tournaments.  The ECNL model is to have more practice and fewer higher quality games.

Sure the ECNL level teams drop from RCL however both of the ECNL clubs in this state still have an A,B and C teams that compete in the RCL

[tripleplay]

US Club will eventually win. They have already won in most states and in some of the biggest.

A little evidence, please.

[Bathos]

The first one to recognize it isn't a competition is the one that will "win".

[kameharem]

The first one to recognize it isn't a competition is the one that will "win".

Thank You.

[tripleplay]

Prediction:  US Club's business model is "club-centric."  Historically, WYSA was just the opposite.  Associations, as opposed to Clubs, were the focus in WYSA.  WYSA is realizing that US Club's model is very appealing to Clubs.  WYSA is grasping that it is the Clubs, not Associations, that drive the youth soccer industry and hence WYSA is now making an effort to change their business model.  

In what way do you see WYS becoming more club-friendly?

[NKSoccerFan]

Prediction:  US Club's business model is "club-centric."  Historically, WYSA was just the opposite.  Associations, as opposed to Clubs, were the focus in WYSA.  WYSA is realizing that US Club's model is very appealing to Clubs.  WYSA is grasping that it is the Clubs, not Associations, that drive the youth soccer industry and hence WYSA is now making an effort to change their business model.  

In what way do you see WYS becoming more club-friendly?

Well, BIG clubs maybe.   As for the rest....

 

[mhall]

Travel to California and in most cases the tournaments require US Club cards!   

[drarcher]

Having served on the board of a club in Northern California, I can tell you my first hand experience. CYSA North use to dominate Nor Cal but US Club has slowly taken over. They first got their hooks into the youngest divisions U9/U10 and then each season as that group moved up they became the dominate league for U11 and U10/U9, the third year they were the dominate club for U12, U11, U10/U9, etc. At this point they are the league you want to play in if you have a team at U14 or under and want to play the other top teams. They are cheaper and much easier to deal with on the admin side. Clubs will find that they save a lot of money in insurance, coach education, and tournaments.

I don't have any info to point to but did have a lot of info presented to me when I was on the board and we had to decide which way to go (When the biggest clubs made the switch, it became obvious). I recall that US Club's regional leagues for the highest level of play (I forget what they are called) are where the top teams go throughout the southern US and the midwest.

I know some of you are stout believers in the state associations and I was one of the last ones to like the idea of moving from CYSA to US Club but in the end I see the benefits.

[drarcher]

Read articles like this and tell me which side is realizing that they are on the losing side:

http://www.potomacsoccerwire.com/news/458/12159

Clearly they feel threatened.

[bigb]

Funny thing about this article is that WYS is doing the same thing to the Select Clubs that are not allowed to play in the RCL!!!!....

[windy90]

WSYSA is looking to revamp the state leagues.  Look for 2012 to have new state league, no districts and no bottom RCL's below division 3.

[EWSoccer64]

WSYSA is looking to revamp the state leagues.  Look for 2012 to have new state league, no districts and no bottom RCL's below division 3.

We have been hearing crap like this since the WYS leadership started peddling it out to try to get everyone to swallow the creation of the RCL.
Why should we be suckers again?   And besides, "no districts" is a bad idea.

[metz123]

Too late...that ship sailed 2 years ago....any league the state proposes that does not let a team fully rise and fall to a true level of ability is a non starter. Protecting the top two divisions as RCL and then proposing a second tier of teams as the state league provides no incentive that stems the tide of teams leaving the state league....

[metz123]

Funny thing about this article is that WYS is doing the same thing to the Select Clubs that are not allowed to play in the RCL!!!!....

sarcasm mode enabled....

It's entirely different to have leagues that don't allow teams in (RCL) , as opposed to leagues that don't allow teams out (ECNL).

Sarcasm mode disabled...

[windy90]

The revamp state league in 2012 is an attempt to revamp WSYSA revenue.  

[Soccer Wonk]

WSYSA is looking to revamp the state leagues.  Look for 2012 to have new state league, no districts and no bottom RCL's below division 3.

We have been hearing crap like this since the WYS leadership started peddling it out to try to get everyone to swallow the creation of the RCL.
Why should we be suckers again?   And besides, "no districts" is a bad idea.

Working to sow the seeds of dissatisfaction, work the fringes and drive people to his league. A collection of half-truths doesn't create a whole truth. Which is why, I'm afraid, this forum has lost its credibility. In fact, someone posted something about state cup games being cancelled a week or so ago that was dead wrong, and nobody bothered to correct it.

[g97dad]

I won't disagree with your tag line Billybuck,    but I think you're thinking of Crossfire.  WPFC is not 3 or 4 teams deep at any age level.  From GU-12 thru U18 there are only 2 teams per age group.  GU14-18 have ECNL teams.

[Soccer Wonk]

Read articles like this and tell me which side is realizing that they are on the losing side:

http://www.potomacsoccerwire.com/news/458/12159

Clearly they feel threatened.

This happened a year and a half ago. At the time, it seemed like more of a "test probe" by US Youth. Both sides were wise to back away from a  full-fledged grievance process on this one.

[anyudes]

The State is late to the game. 2 years late on Jr RCL is a perfect example.

[billybuck]

I won't disagree with your tag line Billybuck,    but I think you're thinking of Crossfire.  WPFC is not 3 or 4 teams deep at any age level.  From GU-12 thru U18 there are only 2 teams per age group.  GU14-18 have ECNL teams.

Ha, you go Gdad...the point I obviously failed to make was that despite WPFC and Crossfire sending teams to the ECNL, they still have the same amount of A,B and in the case of Crossfire C and sometimes D teams still participating in the state and RCL leagues. So the state numbers did not decrease due to these 2 clubs participating in the ECNL, the only thing that changed was the level of competition in The RCL...Does that make any more sense to you?

[tripleplay]

Having served on the board of a club in Northern California, I can tell you my first hand experience. CYSA North use to dominate Nor Cal but US Club has slowly taken over. They first got their hooks into the youngest divisions U9/U10 and then each season as that group moved up they became the dominate league for U11 and U10/U9, the third year they were the dominate club for U12, U11, U10/U9, etc. At this point they are the league you want to play in if you have a team at U14 or under and want to play the other top teams. They are cheaper and much easier to deal with on the admin side. Clubs will find that they save a lot of money in insurance, coach education, and tournaments.

AFAIK,Nor Cal is the big US Club success story, unless you are talking about ECNL. Oregon is another nearby example, but there seems to be some rapprochement going on there.

it is also wrong to believe that USYS is synonymous with the unrepresentative monopoly Association system that curses us in Washington. They allow it, but do not require it. WYS could give clubs and (gasp!) players/parents rights, but as with many changes like this, the key is overcoming the resistance of the old guard looking out for themselves and their prerogatives.

[lester]

WSYSA is looking to revamp the state leagues.  Look for 2012 to have new state league, no districts and no bottom RCL's below division 3.

We have been hearing crap like this since the WYS leadership started peddling it out to try to get everyone to swallow the creation of the RCL.
Why should we be suckers again?   And besides, "no districts" is a bad idea.

Working to sow the seeds of dissatisfaction, work the fringes and drive people to his league. A collection of half-truths doesn't create a whole truth. Which is why, I'm afraid, this forum has lost its credibility. In fact, someone posted something about state cup games being cancelled a week or so ago that was dead wrong, and nobody bothered to correct it.

The only thing lacking in this forum is more people expressing their opinions.  There used to be dozens and dozens.

I totally agree with Metz.  Any revamp of the system has to eliminate the RCL to have any chance of success. Even then, it may be too late.
A revamp with the RCL in place will just be RCL divisions 3-5 being the State League.  Those divisions are dying out anyway.  More coaches are moving their teams to the PSPL, more players are choosing other options and aren't signing up for RCL clubs, association clubs are siding with their teams and not supporting the designated RCL club. The more consolidations there are, the more coaches and DOCs are left out looking for jobs... that aren't in the RCL anymore.

I don't have an answer.  I'm just taking my team totally US Club.  As 96ers, they're too old to have time to adjust to any more new systems.  None of this was their doing.

[sidelinerdad]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

[Black Knight]

As many know my teams play US club because we are in oregon. And in Oregon the state league has come back and tried to get the clubs to go back to the state, because without this the state is done for. Will they, who knows. Its not a decision I'm involved in and really care about.

a few thoughts though.
-US club currently has a better model for clubs.
-The states have been notorious for having the attitude "they will follow our rules, they have no where else to play"
-The state has be reactive instead of pro active. It only started making changes recently when it felt threatened by US Club.
-Any institution that wants to make "threats" I am not okay with. And by threat I mean when the state said they would no allow a club to participate in state cup as a way to keep clubs from leaving. Not once has US club bothered to make any comments like that. They let anyone play in their events as long as they are registered.
-I spent 7 years dealing with WSYSA and for the last 2 years i've dealt with US club soccer... lets just say my life ahs been much easier the last two years.

[tripleplay]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

Few USYS State affiliates have the drama that Washington does. Many if not most simply create objective membership requirements and follow their own rational rules. Washington stands out with its arcane system of granting monopolies and forming policies whose purpose is to manipulate the membership. In states where clubs join the State organization directly, things are similar to US Club. Where the system is open, clubs have a myob mentality and don't look to the state as Santa Claus. Conflicts still occur - people are people after all - but they take place on the field and in the marketplace - not in State committees.