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[Black Knight]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

Few USYS State affiliates have the drama that Washington does. Many if not most simply create objective membership requirements and follow their own rational rules. Washington stands out with its arcane system of granting monopolies and forming policies whose purpose is to manipulate the membership. In states where clubs join the State organization directly, things are similar to US Club. Where the system is open, clubs have a myob mentality and don't look to the state as Santa Claus. Conflicts still occur - people are people after all - but they take place on the field and in the marketplace - not in State committees.

Oregon had plenty of issues with teh clubs... Thus the reason they all went US club together. They basically got together and decided how they wanted a league to run and did it. Not sure why WA clubs don't do the same. O wait its cuz the main clubs basically run WSYSA as it is.

[SheplaysIdrive]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

Few USYS State affiliates have the drama that Washington does. Many if not most simply create objective membership requirements and follow their own rational rules. Washington stands out with its arcane system of granting monopolies and forming policies whose purpose is to manipulate the membership. In states where clubs join the State organization directly, things are similar to US Club. Where the system is open, clubs have a myob mentality and don't look to the state as Santa Claus. Conflicts still occur - people are people after all - but they take place on the field and in the marketplace - not in State committees.

Oregon had plenty of issues with teh clubs... Thus the reason they all went US club together. They basically got together and decided how they wanted a league to run and did it. Not sure why WA clubs don't do the same. O wait its cuz the main clubs basically run WSYSA as it is.

So isn't the end result in Oregon the same as what we have here in WA, i.e. doesn't the OPL restrict membership to just the big clubs, and then further restrict it to the big clubs relatively close to Portland?  If so, what's the difference?

[tripleplay]

Oregon had plenty of issues with teh clubs... Thus the reason they all went US club together. They basically got together and decided how they wanted a league to run and did it. Not sure why WA clubs don't do the same. O wait its cuz the main clubs basically run WSYSA as it is.

I didn't say that Washington was unique in having an overbearing USYS affiliate, but it is not universal. In some states, (e.g. SoCal, Minnesota) clubs that want to provide soccer can join the state organization directly without any obstacles. In SoCal, the clubs form leagues and play in them. The only real difference between these states and US club is that there is a state fee and some state programs. In my opinion, the fees aren't that high and the programs aren't especially controversial. I think what is more annoying in places like Washington and (formerly) Oregon is the lack of self-government. Whether you're playing the RCL or not, big club or little club, rec or premier, there is a tier of people at various levels (association, district, state) with no stake in the game but whose uninformed opinions have to be considered.

[Black Knight]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

Few USYS State affiliates have the drama that Washington does. Many if not most simply create objective membership requirements and follow their own rational rules. Washington stands out with its arcane system of granting monopolies and forming policies whose purpose is to manipulate the membership. In states where clubs join the State organization directly, things are similar to US Club. Where the system is open, clubs have a myob mentality and don't look to the state as Santa Claus. Conflicts still occur - people are people after all - but they take place on the field and in the marketplace - not in State committees.

Oregon had plenty of issues with teh clubs... Thus the reason they all went US club together. They basically got together and decided how they wanted a league to run and did it. Not sure why WA clubs don't do the same. O wait its cuz the main clubs basically run WSYSA as it is.

So isn't the end result in Oregon the same as what we have here in WA, i.e. doesn't the OPL restrict membership to just the big clubs, and then further restrict it to the big clubs relatively close to Portland?  If so, what's the difference?

the OPL does not restrict membership... any club can join the OPL, and any team from a club can join the OPL as long as they are registered with US club.

[plentyofgames]

Well, isn't is more appealing to work with a League who is more about just the kids playing soccer than all the drama politics the state deals out?  I'm not saying US Club doesn't have politics, but it seems they are less intrusive and controlling.  Maybe I am wrong.......

Few USYS State affiliates have the drama that Washington does. Many if not most simply create objective membership requirements and follow their own rational rules. Washington stands out with its arcane system of granting monopolies and forming policies whose purpose is to manipulate the membership. In states where clubs join the State organization directly, things are similar to US Club. Where the system is open, clubs have a myob mentality and don't look to the state as Santa Claus. Conflicts still occur - people are people after all - but they take place on the field and in the marketplace - not in State committees.

Oregon had plenty of issues with teh clubs... Thus the reason they all went US club together. They basically got together and decided how they wanted a league to run and did it. Not sure why WA clubs don't do the same. O wait its cuz the main clubs basically run WSYSA as it is.

So isn't the end result in Oregon the same as what we have here in WA, i.e. doesn't the OPL restrict membership to just the big clubs, and then further restrict it to the big clubs relatively close to Portland?  If so, what's the difference?

the OPL does not restrict membership... any club can join the OPL, and any team from a club can join the OPL as long as they are registered with US club.

That's correct. OPL started out as the big Portland clubs but now includes nearly every club that maintains a competitive program. It's still pretty Portland-centric at the higher levels but that's more of a numbers game than anything else.

[tripleplay]

the OPL does not restrict membership... any club can join the OPL, and any team from a club can join the OPL as long as they are registered with US club.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the OPL allows anybody to play in the league, but still restricts governance to some founding clubs. Of course, it's still more democratic than what we have ever had here!

[Black Knight]

the OPL does not restrict membership... any club can join the OPL, and any team from a club can join the OPL as long as they are registered with US club.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the OPL allows anybody to play in the league, but still restricts governance to some founding clubs. Of course, it's still more democratic than what we have ever had here!

yes it does ahve a board which runs it which is comprised of the main 8(i think) clubs. However, they have not yet restricted the little clubs with any rules that they themselves don't follow. if your team is good enough it can get into the top league no matter what club you are with.

[wit]

In the "for what it's worth" department US Club and US Youth (ie State Associations) will both continue to be around for some time to come. The vast majority of the State Associations particularly in the Easter  have very little or no US Club presence whatsoever. Region IV by far has the largest amount of US Club players of any other region. If you want to go by the numbers then I can tell you that US Youth sits at about 3.2 million kids and US Club has around 400,000 at last known estimate of which about  80,000  to 100,000 exist in Northern California alone. US Club sometimes is perceived as being nothing more than a registration/insurance outfit that lets the inmates run the asylum, whilst US Youth Soccer is considered an aniquated organization but with rules and regulations. It is true that US Club has helped bring US Youth into the modern world by providing the competition.

In some ways it is healthy to have a choice whilst in otherways it just tears the game apart, multiple same level leagues in the same town is never a good thing and i'll argue that with anyone..

I think you'll find that both organizations will continue to exist and evolve in their own way, there will be no outright winner... never going to happen. The only people capable of changing that is US Soccer themselves because as members US Youth and US Club must abide by the rules of that organization and therefor if US Soccer want to start dictating how youth soccer should run in this country then all of a sudden it becomes a level playing field and no matter whether you turn to US Club or US Youth and its State ASsociations, in theory the product should be the same, however again I don't see that happening.

Time will tell.

[politically incorrect]

.

[ponyup101]

Generally speaking.  Premier refers to statewide leagues whereas Select refers to District level play.

[ckunited]

None of it really matters. I think our State has only a handfull of "premier"clubs then a bunch of others that want to be but aren't. They should just play with everyone else and build strong localized competition.

[chapsasoccerdad]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

[politically incorrect]

.

[chapsasoccerdad]

Isn't the point of a Premier League to encourage the HIGHEST level of participation.  Isn't one of the goals of the highest level of participation development of kids for the national teams?  What I'm seeing in this state in simply a huge intermingling of talent with very little thought on high level development.  Clearly money & politics appear to run the day.  Sad

You are so correct PI - this could turn around if more parents stepped up, asked questions, attend meetings, review stats.  Just because it says Premier, doesn't necessarily mean Premier. 

[NKSoccerFan]

Isn't the point of a Premier League to encourage the HIGHEST level of participation.  Isn't one of the goals of the highest level of participation development of kids for the national teams?  What I'm seeing in this state in simply a huge intermingling of talent with very little thought on high level development.  Clearly money & politics appear to run the day.  Sad

You are so correct PI - this could turn around if more parents stepped up, asked questions, attend meetings, review stats.  Just because it says Premier, doesn't necessarily mean Premier. 

And stop paying huge sums of $$$ just for the title of "Premier"
 

[chapsasoccerdad]

Isn't the point of a Premier League to encourage the HIGHEST level of participation.  Isn't one of the goals of the highest level of participation development of kids for the national teams?  What I'm seeing in this state in simply a huge intermingling of talent with very little thought on high level development.  Clearly money & politics appear to run the day.  Sad

You are so correct PI - this could turn around if more parents stepped up, asked questions, attend meetings, review stats.  Just because it says Premier, doesn't necessarily mean Premier. 

And stop paying huge sums of $$$ just for the title of "Premier"
 

EXACTLY- That's why parents need to ask the important ?'s - to make sure what they are getting for their $$$$ - I know people who are paying for that title and can't afford that title and it really does not equate to that title - it's wrong! There should be guidelines that you have to meet in order to have that title.

[politically incorrect]

.

[erickb]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

Truth! We just left MRFC for WP and there is a huge difference, in the “Premier” label, WP does not cost that much more, but you get a LOT more for your money! If MRFC would drop prices and except that they could be a good local club (and maybe that is what they are headed to) it would be great for kids in the area. MRFC has been MRFC biggest problem, I will admit we were sucked into the “Premier” level and we thought great our kids get to play at the highest level, but then to see them play select teams for the price we were paying, and now to think they are playing Rec. teams for the near the cost of WP blows my mind.

Let it be said to those that read this and will say I am bad mouthing MRFC, I am not. I am saying sometimes clubs need to look at what they are offering for the money and go from there, and yes I know they are starting some extra training but still nowhere near the level as “Premiere” Clubs IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!

[chapsasoccerdad]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

Truth! We just left MRFC for WP and there is a huge difference, in the “Premier” label, WP does not cost that much more, but you get a LOT more for your money! If MRFC would drop prices and except that they could be a good local club (and maybe that is what they are headed to) it would be great for kids in the area. MRFC has been MRFC biggest problem, I will admit we were sucked into the “Premier” level and we thought great our kids get to play at the highest level, but then to see them play select teams for the price we were paying, and now to think they are playing Rec. teams for the near the cost of WP blows my mind.

Let it be said to those that read this and will say I am bad mouthing MRFC, I am not. I am saying sometimes clubs need to look at what they are offering for the money and go from there, and yes I know they are starting some extra training but still nowhere near the level as “Premiere” Clubs IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!

I don't see you as bad mouthing MRFC (as the members of the board think you are) you are telling the truth with regard to your comments about MRFC as an example of the definition of Premier.  They are NOT a Premier Club.  If they had merged with a premier association like they should have, then it would be a different story.  Good luck to you and your daughter at WP.

[Vancouver Soccer Dad]

I know this is only one dimension of what might be a definition of a "Premier" club but, as a starting point, let's look at which clubs had teams in the "Premier" divisions in WA (RCL 1) and OR (OPL Premier) this past fall/winter. The following data includes all ages groups U11-U18 for both boys and girls. Some clubs have "premier" teams in all groups, some are strong at U11-U14 and some only in U15-U18. Some clubs have more than 1 team in some premier divisions, hence totals of more than 16:

Club                   Total # of Teams
Crossfire       19
Eastside FC   18
FC Portland   17
East Side United   15
NW Nationals   14
Washington Premier FC   12
Westside Metros   12
Vancouver United   11
Eugene Metro FC   10
Oswego Southside Soccer Academy   10
Tualatin Hills United SC   9
Greater Renton FC   9
Oregon Rush   8
Whatcom FC   8
Lake Oswego   7
Snohomish United   7
Seattle United   7
Washington Rush   7
Northeast United   6
Spokane Shadow   6
DOS FC   5
Federal Way FC   5
FC Salmon Creek   4
Southside SC   4
Portland City United   4
Bridlemile SC   4
Cascade FC   3
Westsound FC   3
FC Alliance   3
Willamette United   2
Harbor Premier   2
Rogue Valley SC   2
Highline Premier FC   2
Pacific FC   2
Hillsboro SC   2
Oregon Soccer Academy Alliance   2
Clackamas United   1
Sherwood United   1
Tualatin Metros   1
FC Willamette   1
Spokane Soccer Club Elite   1
3-Rivers SC   1
Valley Football Club   1
Hood River SC   1
Sun City Strikers   1

[Brat Jr]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

Truth! We just left MRFC for WP and there is a huge difference, in the “Premier” label, WP does not cost that much more, but you get a LOT more for your money! If MRFC would drop prices and except that they could be a good local club (and maybe that is what they are headed to) it would be great for kids in the area. MRFC has been MRFC biggest problem, I will admit we were sucked into the “Premier” level and we thought great our kids get to play at the highest level, but then to see them play select teams for the price we were paying, and now to think they are playing Rec. teams for the near the cost of WP blows my mind.

Let it be said to those that read this and will say I am bad mouthing MRFC, I am not. I am saying sometimes clubs need to look at what they are offering for the money and go from there, and yes I know they are starting some extra training but still nowhere near the level as “Premiere” Clubs IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!

I won't say you are badmouthing them, its just the same BS but on a different day!

As for the "premier' label, MRFC has done away with that. They just haven't changed their logos.

As for pricing between the 2? WPFC charges a lot more than MRFC. I know I was able to pay it out of pocket this year ( MRFC ) whereas at WPFC it was scholarship and payments...

[chapsasoccerdad]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

Truth! We just left MRFC for WP and there is a huge difference, in the “Premier” label, WP does not cost that much more, but you get a LOT more for your money! If MRFC would drop prices and except that they could be a good local club (and maybe that is what they are headed to) it would be great for kids in the area. MRFC has been MRFC biggest problem, I will admit we were sucked into the “Premier” level and we thought great our kids get to play at the highest level, but then to see them play select teams for the price we were paying, and now to think they are playing Rec. teams for the near the cost of WP blows my mind.

Let it be said to those that read this and will say I am bad mouthing MRFC, I am not. I am saying sometimes clubs need to look at what they are offering for the money and go from there, and yes I know they are starting some extra training but still nowhere near the level as “Premiere” Clubs IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!

I won't say you are badmouthing them, its just the same BS but on a different day!

As for the "premier' label, MRFC has done away with that. They just haven't changed their logos.

As for pricing between the 2? WPFC charges a lot more than MRFC. I know I was able to pay it out of pocket this year ( MRFC ) whereas at WPFC it was scholarship and payments...

Even though they haven't changed their logo - they need to remove any reference to Premier on their website - it's a false label to attach to the kids.  One of the board members need to go ontothe website and delete the title It is not difficult to do.

[politically incorrect]

.

[erickb]

I'm a newbie but have great interest in youth soccer in Washington.  Can anyone tell me who (clubs, teams, associations) is allowed to use the descriptor PREMIER?  Can any club simply designate their best team as a premier team?  Can a club simply advertise to their community that they compete in a premier league?  Can I get together with a group of friends and start a "Premier" league and then recruit clubs/teams that want to be known as "premier".  To me, without a clear standard of quality with set criteria, the term premier really has no reference point and certainly has no boundaries for levels of participation.

To me it seems like a loose term - there is a neighboring club of ours, MRFC who labels themselves as Premier, however, they are anything but.  They may have 1 or 2 teams at the most that can stand up to heavy competition, but that is it.  They lost a bunch of good teams that would "qualify" them for Premier status. 

Truth! We just left MRFC for WP and there is a huge difference, in the “Premier” label, WP does not cost that much more, but you get a LOT more for your money! If MRFC would drop prices and except that they could be a good local club (and maybe that is what they are headed to) it would be great for kids in the area. MRFC has been MRFC biggest problem, I will admit we were sucked into the “Premier” level and we thought great our kids get to play at the highest level, but then to see them play select teams for the price we were paying, and now to think they are playing Rec. teams for the near the cost of WP blows my mind.

Let it be said to those that read this and will say I am bad mouthing MRFC, I am not. I am saying sometimes clubs need to look at what they are offering for the money and go from there, and yes I know they are starting some extra training but still nowhere near the level as “Premiere” Clubs IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!

I won't say you are badmouthing them, its just the same BS but on a different day!

As for the "premier' label, MRFC has done away with that. They just haven't changed their logos.

As for pricing between the 2? WPFC charges a lot more than MRFC. I know I was able to pay it out of pocket this year ( MRFC ) whereas at WPFC it was scholarship and payments...

When a conversation is just a conversation I don’t see the need for anyone to get upset with or call it “just the same old BS”. I wish I would have known about this site years ago to at least have an ear to what was going on in the soccer community (truth or rumor) just to help know what others thought about clubs, leagues, cost, etc..

 I would like to know what you pay for MRFC then, cause we paid ours out in full as well and the prices I am seeing from WP are not that much more then we paid out to MRFC, could be difference in teams or something else I guess or maybe you get a good discount J/K ?

[Brat Jr]

ISC is Issaquah Soccer Club Issaquah Soccer Club http://www.issaquahsoccerclub.org at least I hope that is the one you were looking for 

Also, you can find just about all WA Clubs with their links here: http://washingtonpremiersoccer.com/forum/index.php/topic,16563.0.html

[politically incorrect]

.

[Brat Jr]

Even though they haven't changed their logo - they need to remove any reference to Premier on their website - it's a false label to attach to the kids.  One of the board members need to go ontothe website and delete the title It is not difficult to do.
[/quote]
they are changing websites and will go live sometime around the 20th or so. Then the logo should be correct enough for you.

[eastofthe206]

"Where is ISC": in relation to the listing those were all RCL D1 teams.  Correct me if I am wrong but don't the ISC teams play US Club PSPL?  I've seen it said many times on this site, and not seen much objection, that the top PSPL competition is on average equivalent to RCL D3 or thereabouts.  There are exceptions and I know for years the older ISC boys teams would cause fits when playing against RCL teams...you couldn't make the case ISC was RCL D1 but on a number of occasions I saw the ISC boys rattle some RCL D2 and D3 teams.

One of these days someone is going to figure out how, in the course of a year, there can be good competition betwenn the WYS and USC teams.  That will be a good day

[sidelinerdad]

Parents need to understand what they are writing a check for.  Like in the case of MRFC (which is not on that poster's list of clubs above) - has the President informed his members that they are NOT a Premier Club - doesn't look like it - http://mtrainierfc.org/.  The parents of that particular club were sold a bill of goods. 

[Vancouver Soccer Dad]

"Where is ISC": in relation to the listing those were all RCL D1 teams.  Correct me if I am wrong but don't the ISC teams play US Club PSPL?  I've seen it said many times on this site, and not seen much objection, that the top PSPL competition is on average equivalent to RCL D3 or thereabouts.  There are exceptions and I know for years the older ISC boys teams would cause fits when playing against RCL teams...you couldn't make the case ISC was RCL D1 but on a number of occasions I saw the ISC boys rattle some RCL D2 and D3 teams.

One of these days someone is going to figure out how, in the course of a year, there can be good competition betwenn the WYS and USC teams.  That will be a good day

Being from "way down here" in Vancouver, I don't really know much about the quality of PSPL. All of our teams either play in RCL or OPL so that's where I started gathering data. My logic was that clubs with lots of 1st division teams must be doing something right. They are likely fairly large, are able to attract good players and coaches, and maybe even have a half-decent system (other than luck) for developing players.

Are there some PSPL clubs that deserve a spot on this list and, if so, where on the list?