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[FutbolPapa]

Posting a relevant article regarding the issue of HS vs. Academy soccer...

From SoccerAmerica (http://www.socceramerica.com/article/45522/the-case-for-high-school-soccer.html)

By Mike Barr

The U.S. Soccer Developmental Academy league will soon be telling its players to not play high school soccer or any other high school sports. Most parents of these elite players will buy into the decision, much in the same way they believe it costs thousands of dollars to assure their child becomes a strong player and receives that $2,000 partial scholarship. Not surprisingly, the developmental academies will now be forced to charge more for training and travel.

It seems within youth soccer ideas are implemented with little thought, time, trials or research. We have become a soccer country that relies on the innovations of other countries without coming up with ideas of our own that reflect our society and culture.

The claims that high school soccer is detrimental to development seem to resonate from coaches and administrators who are involved with the Academy programs at the national level. In my opinion high school soccer should remain an important part of our youth sports landscape and parents should examine the pros and cons before making such a decision that could impact their child’s future. I will attempt to unravel the facts for parents:

1) Playing with the academy team and with elite players will enhance my son’s soccer skills.

Yes, and could possibly inhibit his growth, if he is now a substitute or locked into a position that limits touches on the ball and erodes at confidence. He could go from the player to play through or target in high school, to relinquishing roles on the field because the strength of other players on his academy team are seen to be stronger.

2) The quality of coaching at the Academy level is stronger than at the high school level.

This may be the case in some instances but there are many high school coaches who are more capable and more qualified than many academy coaches and many high school coaches have a vast amount of experience at club and ODP.

3) Quality of competition is stronger at the academy level.

Again, it may be the case in some matches but many high school games are much more competitive than Academy play, especially when teams are competing for a league, district or state title.

4). He will enjoy Academy play more.

Talk to almost any elite or high level player within the last fifteen years and almost every player will tell you that playing for their high school team was more enjoyable than club or their college playing experience. High School soccer still replicates the neighborhood club teams of years ago and the entire community still identifies with high school soccer as their own. Playing with your close peers and representing your community is something special.

Attendance at high school soccer matches always attracts more fans than any academy matches, because a community cannot get behind a program that has kids from up to 50 miles away associated with a team.

5) Playing high school will impede development.

An elite high school player begins play against players who may be four years older who are faster and stronger. Young players are forced to develop fast and develop a strong first touch. As they move into their junior and senior years they assume a role as leader and carry more responsibility to their team and themselves. Playing within the academy structure very few players assume or are introduced to the role of leader.

6) Playing Academy will provide up to four nights of training and matches on the weekend for 10 months.

Try to imagine the difficulty of maintaining quality grades if every day you are in a car for two hours, in addition to training for two hours. When will a player be able to experience the after school experiences we all enjoyed as high school students?

There will be little or no time to attend social functions, participate in music or theatre, clubs and play other sports. During the college interview many colleges and universities are looking for a well-rounded student. Will playing in the Academy actually hurt my chances to get your child in the school of his choice?

Since we have adopted the academy philosophy of European clubs; possibly U.S. Soccer should replicate these programs and have only developmental academies directed by each MLS Club. All training, travel and expenses would be covered by the club. Each player brought into an MLS academy would realize they have the potential to play professionally.

There still is something special to playing with friends in front of parents and peers and experiencing the thrill and social aspects of high school sports. Quite possibly we could see a resurgence of players staying with their own local clubs and make soccer a reasonably priced sport to play once again.

(Mike Barr is the Director of Coaching of the Eastern Pennsylvania Youth Soccer Association. He coached the boys team at Strath Haven High School in 1984-2005, winning five PIAA state titles, six PIAA District One titles and 16 Central League titles.)

[FutbolPapa]

For the HS age kids the training ratio might be a bit better in the high school vs. club.... go figure!

One comment is on the amount of training I have seen for the HS kids. IF the HS coach is good then this makes sense (and is a bargain!)...

HS Soccer (3 months)
  - Practices are 2 hrs
  - 2 weeks (Mon-Sat) @ 2 per day = 24 hrs
  - 2.5 months (Mon-Fri) minus 2 games week = 63 hrs  (4.2 wks/mo)
  - 16-22 games
  - ratio of approx. 3 hrs training to one game - ~4:1

Club (~7 months)
  - Practices are 1-1.5 hrs
  - 2-3x per week
  - low end = 7 mo. x 4.2 wk/mo x 1 hr x 2 per/week = ~60 hrs
  - high end = 7 mo. x 4.2 wk/mo x 1.5 hr x 3 per/week = ~133 hrs
  - 14 - 20 league games
  - 15 - 42 tournament games (5 -7 tournaments @ 3-6 games each inc. state)
  - total games - 29 to 62 games/yr
  - low ratio of up to 2:1
  - high ratio of 4:1 (highly doubtful since this would be a top tier team generally w/3 practices @ 1.5 hrs each)
  - 'average' ratio likely closer to 8:5 (80 hrs and 50 games)

For what it is worth there is a much better ratio of training to games from the HS coaches. I know there is a large variation in HS coahces but doesn't this point to a it being a 'good value proposition' to ensure that the HS teams all have qualified and experienced coaches and that boosters and clubs do their best to place coaches in these spots rather than deride it?  :-)

[plentyofgames]

As I recently posted on another DA thread, we've had this debate a lot and there are strongly held and valid points made by both sides. I happen to agree with Barr but it really depends upon the quality of the high school program and its coach. Of all the club, ODP and DA coaches my kids have had, I'd take their high school coach over all but a couple. But then again, he's a highly successful coach from a well respected club. From the player side, nearly every player on the varsity team is a club player and most of the JV and JV II kids are too. For example, I think two years ago 9 of the 11 starters played in state cup finals for their club teams and two were starters on a national championship club team. The biggest difference in high school is that they're not all the same age and I think that's a huge positive for the reasons Barr outlines in his article. From a purely personal standpoint, it was the only time both my boys were able to play on the same team. That was great. I think they enjoyed playing with a few players that they battled against in club as well.

Slightly off topic but related, player age is a big problem at the DA level. Notwithstanding the statements that it's about finding and developing the best players, the academy teams, just like ODP teams, are disproportionately made up of the older kids in an age group. If the age cutoff is January, the teams have more Jan-March birthdays than September-Dec birthdays. It's not like those kids born at the end of the year can't play. It's just that they're missed at the younger ages when size differences really matter. By the time they get to U18, there are some really good players who were left out of those other teams for primarily that reason. Don't know the solution other than to pay more attention to whether the kids can actually play, but it's a real issue.

[ThiKuBC]

1 - Look at the source. A High School coach. This is like reading scientific reviews of the benefits of coffee as funded by coffee producers. (please don't start a debate about coffee - it was a random example!)

2 - Points 2 and 3 are ridiculous. I'd take his point better if he acknowledged the DA environment was superior to HS but that there are "exceptions". Of course there are so wonderful HS coaches etc. Of course there are. The way he words this he is suggesting you get MORE quality in HS soccer than DA. Which is simply not true otherwise you'd see MLS and pro teams scouting high school soccer, would you not?

3 - What is this fella's perspective? Does he travel The United States or is he only exposed to Penn. ?

4 - I have no doubt there are some valid points in this article.

5 - How long do you think it would take me to find an article explaining why kids should not play HS soccer but is written by a DA staff coach?

[Rocket Man]

Unfortunately most high school coaches do not stay up to date in training styles and variations.  They don't continue thier education and are not required to maintain a certain license.  Most high school coaches probably have an E or D license equivalent.  The rare few that have higher than that would be a gold mind for an athlete.  If the athlete can get that 4:1 ratio from a knowledgeable coach I can see a benefit to high school ball, beyond the social and school pride benefits.

I actually witnessed our high school coach running a 4v4 keep away session utilizing a 60yd by 60yd grid.  Yeah an entire half of a field.  And then he/she (they have both) were yelling and upset at the kids because they couldn't make the ball ping around.  Now if they were doing it for a fitness game and one time thing I could understand.  But, they weren't, they were using it for posession.  I can honestly say that was the last practice and the last time I actually gave a rats *** about high school soccer.  Because the team my kids play for should be very good with all of the athletes they have, but the coaching will prevent them from ever reaching their potential.  And the coaches that aren't their to coach, but to get a pay check and only care about the program when it is in season will often pick kids to help their program that are crappy club players, but probably a popular kid in school.  YUK.

[plentyofgames]

1 - Look at the source. A High School coach. This is like reading scientific reviews of the benefits of coffee as funded by coffee producers. (please don't start a debate about coffee - it was a random example!)

2 - Points 2 and 3 are ridiculous. I'd take his point better if he acknowledged the DA environment was superior to HS but that there are "exceptions". Of course there are so wonderful HS coaches etc. Of course there are. The way he words this he is suggesting you get MORE quality in HS soccer than DA. Which is simply not true otherwise you'd see MLS and pro teams scouting high school soccer, would you not?

3 - What is this fella's perspective? Does he travel The United States or is he only exposed to Penn. ?

4 - I have no doubt there are some valid points in this article.

5 - How long do you think it would take me to find an article explaining why kids should not play HS soccer but is written by a DA staff coach?

[plentyofgames]

1 - Look at the source. A High School coach. This is like reading scientific reviews of the benefits of coffee as funded by coffee producers. (please don't start a debate about coffee - it was a random example!)

2 - Points 2 and 3 are ridiculous. I'd take his point better if he acknowledged the DA environment was superior to HS but that there are "exceptions". Of course there are so wonderful HS coaches etc. Of course there are. The way he words this he is suggesting you get MORE quality in HS soccer than DA. Which is simply not true otherwise you'd see MLS and pro teams scouting high school soccer, would you not?

3 - What is this fella's perspective? Does he travel The United States or is he only exposed to Penn. ?

4 - I have no doubt there are some valid points in this article.

5 - How long do you think it would take me to find an article explaining why kids should not play HS soccer but is written by a DA staff coach?

I suppose I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know your qualifications to judge soccer generally, much less in the states. It's clear from your past comments that your no novice. That said, let's consider the source.The author is a former a high school coach who is now the DOC at a club that I admittedly know nothing about. I checked out their website, they appear a lot more organized than most, but that doesn't really mean much. I also don't know much about soccer in Pennsylvania. A lot of people live there so I suspect there are some very good players. I do know about DA soccer and high school soccer-at least in my state. I question why you are you so quick to attack? Do you know something about the coach or club that nobody else does? Why are you so quick to assume that DA coaches are better. There are thousands of high school coaches and 75 academies. The numbers alone say that there are more good high school coaches than DA coaches. My hunch is there are probably more than a few DA coaches who are a little weak. I can say from experience that the weakest coaches my kids had were all A licensed coaches. With respect to environment, why so quick to assume the DA environment is better?  I think it probably is, but I don't know and neither do you. There are some schools, for example Jesuit down in Sacramento, where I suspect the high school environment is as good or better than it is at the DA. It really all depends. A clear case in point was last weekend when our club kids, all of whom play high school soccer, beat the first place DA team. It wasn't a total surprise because our club team has better players than most DA teams. I'm a supporter of the DA program, but I think the discounting of high school soccer and its importance to our kids in their development as players and people shouldn't be discounted because others do things differently somewhere else.

[ThiKuBC]

I don't know anything about this coach. But it doesn't take away from my point. He was addressing a nationwide discussion. So my question is "what exposure does he have?" Or does his exposure begin and end in Penn? Regardless if there are good players in Penn, you can't compare what is happening in Penn to what is happening in Indiana, or New York, Washington, or Seattle etc. If he had said "HS soccer in Penn has great advantages and here is why I believe it is better than DA in Penn..." then great! His article would have more weight with me. But he isn't. He is speaking about a nationwide topic as if he has had nationwide exposure/travel to the issue. In this regard, I take what is coming out of USSF as for more accurate than a single coach in Penn.

I am NOT suggesting this guy is a good or bad coach! He probably is a great guy and excellent coach. I can't assume anything else, don't, and won't.

Can't look at pure numbers. There are 75 DA's. Have to look at percentages. What percentage of the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of high school coaches are good compared to the % of DA coaches? What percentage of HS teams are good compared to % of DA teams that are good. Obviously HS is at a significant disadvantage. Now keep in mind, not all DA players are going to live in a school cachement that is in the top level of HS soccer. Some will be at bottom or mid-level obviously. Which again suggests there team in general will be no good compared to the DA team that lad is on....

I think you ignored my point 4?

"With respect to environment, why so quick to assume the DA environment is better?  I think it probably is, but I don't know and neither do you. There are some schools, for example Jesuit down in Sacramento, where I suspect the high school environment is as good or better than it is at the DA."
You don't know if DA is better than HS? Seriously?  C'mon, what HS teams are able to run with FCD, Cosmos, Whitecaps, Pats? and the list goes on and on. I've said this before, I acknowledged it in my point #4 but I'll say it again and bold it "there are always exceptions." To be fair, this Penn coach has acknowledged there are "some" good DA's....but he has suggested that there is more quality in HS than DA, which is rubbish.

Your example of a HS team beating a DA team is great. It is exactly the exception to which I was referring and have done before! You can find exceptions everywhere. Is Blackburn better than Southampton? Probably not! Now, my question to the DA team that was beat by the HS team - why aren't those HS players scouted and invited to the DA program? But lower-level teams beat higher level teams all the time. Whitecaps took down u14-aged players to the DA Showcase in December and gave them considerable minutes, u16 players played on their u18 team....scores don't tell the whole story.

This article was posted on big soccer, and all but ignored.

[MarkyMark]

I am a proponent of high school soccer. My DD absolutely loves playing with her schoolmates which should not be discounted lightly. The season is only about 2 months long, the coaching is pretty good, they get a lot of touches on the ball so it is not like they are sitting on the couch the whole time. The Argument that says that playing with inferior players will hurt developement I think is wrong. I would argue that playing with players of lesser ability requires more work and requires more thinking. It's easy to play when you are on a team surrounded by superstars. The problem I have with club soccer is that more often than not players are turned into specialist and don't develope an understanding of the game. A Player who scores a lot of goals for club may be required to shore up the defense or help link up passes in the middle in high school. I think people should view high school soccer as an opportunity rather than a step down. The one thing that I don't like about high school and this may be should go on another thread is that the officiating in high school is HORRIBLE! There are too many concussions, broken legs and other injuries due to the fact that the ref just doesn't want to blow the whistle.

[Old Dog]

1 - Look at the source. A High School coach. This is like reading scientific reviews of the benefits of coffee as funded by coffee producers. (please don't start a debate about coffee - it was a random example!)

So using your point of view, we the have to discredit the folks that run the accademy and say no to high school because they benefit.

Face it, killed topic best left up to the kids, just look at the numbers for the Sounders Academy last year post HS season. They look dam good to me except for graduation weekend of which some kids choose to walk, the nerve of those boys.

[Redkard]

Why the referee comment?

Club referees and high school referees are one and the same.......

They are referees....  They come Fromm the same pool........

[bearcub]

Both sides of the argument are philosophically in the wrong. Soccer academies in the US need to prove themselves first by raising young progeny from age 9 to multi-million $$ contracts in Europe BEFORE they have a moral authority to tell my child what to do and what not to do. This has not happened for the past 15 years that I have been watching them huffing and puffing. It will not happen any time soon - too many executives and pseudo-coaches who have never played or trained in Europe or Latin America. US soccer scene as represented by clubs and academies can be likened to a computer world in which there is neither Microsoft nor Steve Jobs. Or automotive industry minus Japanese, German and Korean models. It is too cosy, too "old-boys (and gals)" network. I personally happen to know 2 club coaches whose children are very mediocre players at age 17. If they can not make an accomplished player out of their own kids - what can you say ? Yet they hang in there with major clubs and seem to be in good standing.
HS, on the other hand, does irreaparable damage to the club players' development by effectively shutting down club soccer for 3 months. Why do I have to settle down for the rec level of HS from the end of August through mid-November  is beyond my comprehension. Many players on my child's club team play for crappy HS teams that get kicked out in the first play-off stage and then have to wait idle until the cycle of HS soccer runs its course through mid-November.

If you ask any unbiased outsider for a solution - they would suggest running those 2 operations concurrently. There is substantial value in my child playing for HS and (often) carrying the game on his/her shoulders because teammates are less skillful. HS training sessions, on the other hand, are often a joke - aimed primarily at building the athleticism in those varsity players who have not done much physical exertion for the rest of the year. So - club training (especially training with the ball, technical skills, etc. ) should not stop, and clubs should be able to set up scrimmages against higher level competition. This dual approach is quite useful. Who is dead set against it ? Right ! - HS soccer bureaucracy. Mention it to them - and they will come up against you with a barrage of "bleeding-heart" type of  arguments about "burn-out", undermining cohesion among the HS squad, etc. I personally figured out a way around this conundrum. But the status quo goes on...
That is why the men's national champion of Ukraine (by far not the strongest soccer nation in Europe) is staffed with 13 (THIRTEEN) Brazilians and coached by a Romanian. Why not the US players (or coaches) , you will ask ? Because the US soccer esablishment can not provide the competitive product - but the guys (and gals) running it are sitting pretty...

[Squash]

If you want t produce the best then you must provide the freedom of choices, freedom to train as they see fit for themselves....freedom to grow by their own choices.

When other decide to make choices for top athletes too often they suffocate the love of the game out of the player/athlete.

I have yet to find one top player that didn't stay in the game and in love with the game by having the choices of when to train, how to train, and who they can train with be limited to them. Most elite players played with their club, for their schools, and also the most important thing of all...chose to train on their own to improve.

The meaning of burnout to me is simple.......... it happens when others try and decide when, with who, and how often you can do what you love. You just get burned out on the idea of being held back and pressured to please others. When the choice is personal and free to make you rarely hear the word burned out.

To me there is no such thing as good or bad soccer.....there are good and bad adult trying to dictate when and who kids can play with is all. 

I have yet to find a kid who played HS that didn't love it as much or more than club soccer........ the choice should be the players not the adults.

[Left Foot]

I suppose I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know your qualifications to judge soccer generally, much less in the states. It's clear from your past comments that your no novice. That said, let's consider the source.The author is a former a high school coach who is now the DOC at a club that I admittedly know nothing about. I checked out their website, they appear a lot more organized than most, but that doesn't really mean much. I also don't know much about soccer in Pennsylvania. A lot of people live there so I suspect there are some very good players. I do know about DA soccer and high school soccer-at least in my state. I question why you are you so quick to attack? Do you know something about the coach or club that nobody else does? Why are you so quick to assume that DA coaches are better. There are thousands of high school coaches and 75 academies. The numbers alone say that there are more good high school coaches than DA coaches. My hunch is there are probably more than a few DA coaches who are a little weak. I can say from experience that the weakest coaches my kids had were all A licensed coaches. With respect to environment, why so quick to assume the DA environment is better?  I think it probably is, but I don't know and neither do you. There are some schools, for example Jesuit down in Sacramento, where I suspect the high school environment is as good or better than it is at the DA. It really all depends. A clear case in point was last weekend when our club kids, all of whom play high school soccer, beat the first place DA team. It wasn't a total surprise because our club team has better players than most DA teams. I'm a supporter of the DA program, but I think the discounting of high school soccer and its importance to our kids in their development as players and people shouldn't be discounted because others do things differently somewhere else.

Just so we are clear, are you saying that your son's club team beat one of the U-16 thru U-18 Crossfire or Sounders academy teams? I thought these academy teams only played each other in select tournaments?

[plentyofgames]

I suppose I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know your qualifications to judge soccer generally, much less in the states. It's clear from your past comments that your no novice. That said, let's consider the source.The author is a former a high school coach who is now the DOC at a club that I admittedly know nothing about. I checked out their website, they appear a lot more organized than most, but that doesn't really mean much. I also don't know much about soccer in Pennsylvania. A lot of people live there so I suspect there are some very good players. I do know about DA soccer and high school soccer-at least in my state. I question why you are you so quick to attack? Do you know something about the coach or club that nobody else does? Why are you so quick to assume that DA coaches are better. There are thousands of high school coaches and 75 academies. The numbers alone say that there are more good high school coaches than DA coaches. My hunch is there are probably more than a few DA coaches who are a little weak. I can say from experience that the weakest coaches my kids had were all A licensed coaches. With respect to environment, why so quick to assume the DA environment is better?  I think it probably is, but I don't know and neither do you. There are some schools, for example Jesuit down in Sacramento, where I suspect the high school environment is as good or better than it is at the DA. It really all depends. A clear case in point was last weekend when our club kids, all of whom play high school soccer, beat the first place DA team. It wasn't a total surprise because our club team has better players than most DA teams. I'm a supporter of the DA program, but I think the discounting of high school soccer and its importance to our kids in their development as players and people shouldn't be discounted because others do things differently somewhere else.

Just so we are clear, are you saying that your son's club team beat one of the U-16 thru U-18 Crossfire or Sounders academy teams? I thought these academy teams only played each other in select tournaments?

Yes. The U-16 team. 

[ThiKuBC]

Something from the DA perspective on this subject;

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer/club-soccer-archives/nid-23760/Lets-talk-about-high-school-soccer

Including comments from Sawatzky.

[switch]

Something from the DA perspective on this subject;

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer/club-soccer-archives/nid-23760/Lets-talk-about-high-school-soccer

Including comments from Sawatzky.

My kid manages to play on three soccer teams and play high school.  He loves the game and draws on different aspects with each team.  He looks forward to high school where he connects through soccer to other players and develops life skills.

If we are going to justify decisions by pointing to the rest of the world, we might as well realize that we are not going to compete with the rest of the world when many of these programs exclude academics in their pursuit.  If so, ThikuBC, lets stop sending our kids to school at all and follow the South American model.  No dating/sex either–just cold showers and we can follow the British model.

[plentyofgames]

I read the article. The academy view is that the players are further along in development but is understandably a little light on specifics. Even assuming a gain in "development" is that gain worth the tradeoff? Might be for some and not for others. When it comes right down to it my view is that it should be up to the player. If the academy is right about the ten month season being significantly better for the players, in a season or two they'll self-select out of high school soccer. If they don't, then the academy will not have made its case. With an edict we'll never know. I tend to agree with Squash that telling players what they must do or give up can come with a price.

PS I wasn't clear in my prior response about the academy game. It was against Sounders Academy U16s.

[plentyofgames]

Something from the DA perspective on this subject;

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer/club-soccer-archives/nid-23760/Lets-talk-about-high-school-soccer

Including comments from Sawatzky.

My kid manages to play on three soccer teams and play high school.  He loves the game and draws on different aspects with each team.  He looks forward to high school where he connects through soccer to other players and develops life skills.

If we are going to justify decisions by pointing to the rest of the world, we might as well realize that we are not going to compete with the rest of the world when many of these programs exclude academics in their pursuit.  If so, ThikuBC, lets stop sending our kids to school at all and follow the South American model.  No dating/sex either–just cold showers and we can follow the British model.

Only 3? Seems like he's everywhere.

[Left Foot]

I read the article. The academy view is that the players are further along in development but is understandably a little light on specifics. Even assuming a gain in "development" is that gain worth the tradeoff? Might be for some and not for others. When it comes right down to it my view is that it should be up to the player. If the academy is right about the ten month season being significantly better for the players, in a season or two they'll self-select out of high school soccer. If they don't, then the academy will not have made its case. With an edict we'll never know. I tend to agree with Squash that telling players what they must do or give up can come with a price.

PS I wasn't clear in my prior response about the academy game. It was against Sounders Academy U16s.

Pardon me, but this seems like an extremely telling data point. Losing to a club team reflects not just on the quality of the Sounders Academy program but, because it is one of the top programs in West -- at least for the last for a couple of years -- it reflects on the entire academy system.

How are these academy players selected? Is it expensive such that lower income players are not able to participate in the academies?
 
I looked at the Sounders U-16 schedules here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37417335-37416959/TEAM.html and here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/27484436/27506879-27484529/TEAM.html and could only see results for what I believe are academy teams. When did your son's team play them? It sould seem like not allowing kids to play High School but allowing the academy teams to play clubs and club tourneys would not be in keeping with the no-high school rule.

[ThiKuBC]

@switch - OK. Not arguing with you or anyone else. This thread was started by posting a biased (in my opinion) view from a HS coach. I've posted an article that is biased toward DA. I do happen to agree with DA based on my own experiences, as well as thorough research into development and physiology. I am not, for one second, suggesting playing HS soccer/sports is 100% wrong and never have said that. There are loads of positives.

@Plentyofgames - I played on 2-3-4 teams at a time too growing up. My body now screams at me on a regular basis as a result....to each his own though.

@Left Foot - it's my understanding MLS academies in DA are supposed to be free. Whitecaps are 100% free. I don't know for certain if Sounders are, TBH. I'd be interested to know. What age were the HS players that beat the Sounders u16's? Also, were these the proper u16's or were they the u15-aged players? Were they playing their age-equivalent or were they playing seniors age 17-18? Just wondering. Whitecaps residency and u14 (which is u13/14 - 2 teams - pre-academy I guess) play non-USSDA opposition. I believe against older opposition but I'm not certain.

[Mossback]

I have to agree with Squash here. The love of playing and the comeraderie generated when playing high school soccer has its advantages.  My DS was part of a state championship team as a freshman and the friends he made and the experiences he had were great for him. Many of the seniors and older players he played with, and is still playing with, network together about education, business, and just friendship in general. You keep some of these friends forever.   With all of your peers watching as well as your boy/girl friends in the high school sports atmosphere,  it is hard to duplicate the positives ploughing thru three a week practices at the local academy team.  Soccer skills could suffer a bit.  But there are some life skills that high school sports addresses quite well.

[tripleplay]

@Left Foot - it's my understanding MLS academies in DA are supposed to be free. Whitecaps are 100% free. I don't know for certain if Sounders are, TBH. I'd be interested to know. What age were the HS players that beat the Sounders u16's? Also, were these the proper u16's or were they the u15-aged players? Were they playing their age-equivalent or were they playing seniors age 17-18? Just wondering. Whitecaps residency and u14 (which is u13/14 - 2 teams - pre-academy I guess) play non-USSDA opposition. I believe against older opposition but I'm not certain.

Isn't club "U16" actually younger than Academy "U16"? i.e. the Sounders could have Jan 95 birthdates, but the oldest player on an American club "U16" would be born in July 95?

[Firedog]

Thik/Lefty,

WSM Galacticos is the Oregon club team that beat the Sounders U16 team 1 - 0 a few weeks back.  We're not in the high school season yet so, there's no controversy about the Academy rule.  I'm with Squash.  Players will and should do what they want to do.  Does anyone really believe an academy coach is going to tell a star they won't let them rejoin the team if they participate in High School? The indentured servant argument doesn't fly unless there's a contract that provides more than "free" play. I'm not suggesting that most academy players won't have a better environment for development with their academy teams than their high school teams. However, forcing a player to do something that results in potential resentment or a diminished passion/joy for the game is the risk. I know.  I know.   As expert adults, we shouldn't allow kids to make choices that might negatively affect their future and the pride of our nation.  They should do as they're told and eat their vegetables.

[anyudes]

I looked at the Sounders U-16 schedules here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37417335-37416959/TEAM.html and here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/27484436/27506879-27484529/TEAM.html and could only see results for what I believe are academy teams. When did your son's team play them? It sould seem like not allowing kids to play High School but allowing the academy teams to play clubs and club tourneys would not be in keeping with the no-high school rule.

The 10 month academy rule is pointed going more toward a full time residency program & less to do with not playing high school. HS soccer is more of a casualty of the academy system than being outright shunned.

[plentyofgames]

I read the article. The academy view is that the players are further along in development but is understandably a little light on specifics. Even assuming a gain in "development" is that gain worth the tradeoff? Might be for some and not for others. When it comes right down to it my view is that it should be up to the player. If the academy is right about the ten month season being significantly better for the players, in a season or two they'll self-select out of high school soccer. If they don't, then the academy will not have made its case. With an edict we'll never know. I tend to agree with Squash that telling players what they must do or give up can come with a price.

PS I wasn't clear in my prior response about the academy game. It was against Sounders Academy U16s.

Pardon me, but this seems like an extremely telling data point. Losing to a club team reflects not just on the quality of the Sounders Academy program but, because it is one of the top programs in West -- at least for the last for a couple of years -- it reflects on the entire academy system.

How are these academy players selected? Is it expensive such that lower income players are not able to participate in the academies?
 
I looked at the Sounders U-16 schedules here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37417335-37416959/TEAM.html and here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/27484436/27506879-27484529/TEAM.html and could only see results for what I believe are academy teams. When did your son's team play them? It sould seem like not allowing kids to play High School but allowing the academy teams to play clubs and club tourneys would not be in keeping with the no-high school rule.

It wasn't a high school team. It's a club team. WSM Galacticos. They're mostly 96's with a few 95's. My comment about high school was just an aside that they all play high school and it hasn't seemed to hold them back. The game was on Jan. 28.

[switch]

I read the article. The academy view is that the players are further along in development but is understandably a little light on specifics. Even assuming a gain in "development" is that gain worth the tradeoff? Might be for some and not for others. When it comes right down to it my view is that it should be up to the player. If the academy is right about the ten month season being significantly better for the players, in a season or two they'll self-select out of high school soccer. If they don't, then the academy will not have made its case. With an edict we'll never know. I tend to agree with Squash that telling players what they must do or give up can come with a price.

PS I wasn't clear in my prior response about the academy game. It was against Sounders Academy U16s.

Pardon me, but this seems like an extremely telling data point. Losing to a club team reflects not just on the quality of the Sounders Academy program but, because it is one of the top programs in West -- at least for the last for a couple of years -- it reflects on the entire academy system.

How are these academy players selected? Is it expensive such that lower income players are not able to participate in the academies?
 
I looked at the Sounders U-16 schedules here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/37416866/37417335-37416959/TEAM.html and here: http://ussda.demosphere.com/teams/27484436/27506879-27484529/TEAM.html and could only see results for what I believe are academy teams. When did your son's team play them? It sould seem like not allowing kids to play High School but allowing the academy teams to play clubs and club tourneys would not be in keeping with the no-high school rule.

It wasn't a high school team. It's a club team. WSM Galacticos. They're mostly 96's with a few 95's. My comment about high school was just an aside that they all play high school and it hasn't seemed to hold them back. The game was on Jan. 28.

For purposes of full disclosure, the Westside team is our academy team for the Portland area for that age group.  It is quite special. Remember, Timbers have not started their DA.  Not to add insult to injury but this team was missing 3 Regional ODP players that weekend and did not have their national player, Rubio, who may never come back.  I suspect they will be contenders for the national title this year.  They are very good.  Ask FW Storm (95/96), they beat them pretty badly in NW Champions League and in the second half played defenders as forwards.

[Rock27]

If you want t produce the best then you must provide the freedom of choices, freedom to train as they see fit for themselves....freedom to grow by their own choices.

When other decide to make choices for top athletes too often they suffocate the love of the game out of the player/athlete.

I have yet to find one top player that didn't stay in the game and in love with the game by having the choices of when to train, how to train, and who they can train with be limited to them. Most elite players played with their club, for their schools, and also the most important thing of all...chose to train on their own to improve.

The meaning of burnout to me is simple.......... it happens when others try and decide when, with who, and how often you can do what you love. You just get burned out on the idea of being held back and pressured to please others. When the choice is personal and free to make you rarely hear the word burned out.

To me there is no such thing as good or bad soccer.....there are good and bad adult trying to dictate when and who kids can play with is all. 

I have yet to find a kid who played HS that didn't love it as much or more than club soccer........ the choice should be the players not the adults.

I agree with Squash.  I've watched in the last two years of HS soccer and the Academy boys used the hs season to "heal" their overuse injuries caused by Academy play.  Interestingly, two academy players graduated last year, both went to top schools, but guess what?  They're not playing soccer.  Reason?  They have already had too many injuries and were tired of it.  For my DS he was surprised when he made varsity as a frosh, learned alot and now is really looking forward to this spring being the 3rd hs season for him.  I'm seeing that not all academy kids want to play professionally, or even for D1 schools.  Makes you wonder why they put in the time in the first place.

[ThiKuBC]

 ^such an interesting question. Why would a parent or kid spend all that time/expense in DA if your goal is not to play pro or university? Talk about taking away another kids' chance...

[plentyofgames]

^such an interesting question. Why would a parent or kid spend all that time/expense in DA if your goal is not to play pro or university? Talk about taking away another kids' chance...

Maybe they just want to play at the highest level with the best players. That makes sense to me and seems a perfectly reasonable choice as does deciding not to play.