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Things that make you go "Are you kidding!!" 5 1

[Oneblindmouse]

Just saw this on a referee website and thought it was an interesting topic of conversation.

"A coach I know recently thought up a strategy for giving his team an advantge that should win if the game goes to penalty kicks in the very final game of a tournament. Theory goes like this, after the initial five pk takers are designated and before the first player on his team, who is his best penalty taker, takes the pk, he will have every one of the 10 remaining players eligible to take penalties step up to the official and insult him sufficiently to be red carded and dismissed from the game. This will insure that his best penalty taker will take all of the pks while the other team will have their lesser skilled players taking kicks.

What would you do as it seems to be perfectly suited to exploit the reduce to equate as currently practiced?"

What would be your response as the referee in such a situation?

[NKSoccerFan]

Isn't there a minimum # of players rule?  7 players I think.
Seems like once the team was down to 6 players, they would forfeit.

[Oneblindmouse]

Isn't there a minimum # of players rule?  7 players I think.
Seems like once the team was down to 6 players, they would forfeit.

I had that thought also, but the LOTG #3 - The Number of Players says only that a match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players.  Generally speaking most matches would be abandoned if either team was reduced to 6 or fewer players, all depends on the competition authority on this point.

The ATR talks specifically about Kicks from the Mark - which occurs after all regulation/overtime has expired.  Once the KftM have started and Reduce to Equate has already occured, you can continue as long as you have enough players to finish - ie, one (they would have to be both Keeper and kicker in this instance)

[NKSoccerFan]

Isn't there a minimum # of players rule?  7 players I think.
Seems like once the team was down to 6 players, they would forfeit.

I had that thought also, but the LOTG #3 - The Number of Players says only that a match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players.  Generally speaking most matches would be abandoned if either team was reduced to 6 or fewer players, all depends on the competition authority on this point.

The ATR talks specifically about Kicks from the Mark - which occurs after all regulation/overtime has expired.  Once the KftM have started and Reduce to Equate has already occured, you can continue as long as you have enough players to finish - ie, one (they would have to be both Keeper and kicker in this instance)

Got it.  Well then, that coach would earn some well deserved derision on the WPS forum! 

Here's the website where the question was posted - http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=3641.  One of my favorite sites. 

 

[Oneblindmouse]

Yep, I did "borrow" it from that site, I was planning on posting the response in a few days (and giving credit where credit is due).

[NKSoccerFan]

Yep, I did "borrow" it from that site, I was planning on posting the response in a few days (and giving credit where credit is due).

Oops - didn't mean to jump the gun there.  Spoiler Alert!!   

[plentyofgames]

It's clearly unsporting conduct subject to a caution to have players intentionally abuse the referee for that purpose. The coaches and manager might get a pass when the first kid does it, but the second ejection should also result in a caution to the coaches and manager. The next incident draws a second caution and ejection of the coaches/manager. It's a requirement of most leagues/tournaments (maybe all) that a team have a coach or manager responsible for the team during the game be present on the sideline. Once those persons were ejected (under the laws of the game they have to leave), that would leave the team ineligible to continue and therefore result in a forfeit or abandonment of the game. What would the team do--protest? Most tournament rules say those types of decisions by referees aren't subject to protest. I'd also hope that the league/state/national governing body subsequently sanctions the club and team and suspends the coach.

[NKSoccerFan]

It's clearly unsporting conduct subject to a caution to have players intentionally abuse the referee for that purpose. The coaches and manager might get a pass when the first kid does it, but the second ejection should also result in a caution to the coaches and manager. The next incident draws a second caution and ejection of the coaches/manager. It's a requirement of most leagues/tournaments (maybe all) that a team have a coach or manager responsible for the team during the game be present on the sideline. Once those persons were ejected (under the laws of the game they have to leave), that would leave the team ineligible to continue and therefore result in a forfeit or abandonment of the game. What would the team do--protest? Most tournament rules say those types of decisions by referees aren't subject to protest. I'd also hope that the league/state/national governing body subsequently sanctions the club and team and suspends the coach.

Or...once it becomes clear that the team using abusing the referee as a strategy, the ref could just say to the coach/team "Not going to fall for it" and refuse to give any more send offs.   Standoff ensues.  Who blinks first?   

 

[Bathos]

Just send off the PK taker/keeper instead of the last person and say you thought it was the PK taker who deserved the red.

[EWSoccer64]

Actually, most leagues - particularly on the youth side - have a rule regarding the minimum number of players that have to be on the field for a match to continue.

Further, a referee can call a match because of team misconduct.   

[Redkard]

There has to be at least 7 to start the game.

If enough players are sent off (shown the red card) to get below 7. Seven players the game is terminated.

Coaches are given cautions at any point in a game.  A referee may verbally warn a coach for unresponsible behavior, might even send a coach from the game.  In this scenario, if the coach is not verbally abusing the referee, the referee cannot discipline the coach.

The question is a coach dumb enough to have five players ejected from the contest?  Verbal abuse usually has a stiff penalty (3 or more game penalty)

Food for thought, depending on the competition, the penalty might carry over to the competition's next stage or following year?

Now the league could take additional action with the coaches from an administration. 

Bottom line, this is not worth the risk.

[Oneblindmouse]

So, some interesting thoughts and comments.  Here is the official response from Jim Allen at askasoccerreferee.com.

"We have seen similar questions in the past (e.g., the coach simply declared these players “unable to play” due to injuries or whatever) but the principle is the same: There are things that can happen on a soccer match which are “wrong” (against the Spirit of the Laws), but over which we have no authority to fashion a correction. Another example would be the situation that occurred in Asia some years ago where one team TRIED to lose by scoring against itself and then the other team, because of what such an outcome would mean (it had to do I think with determining a field site for the next round of competition), began matching the opposing team’s goal for goal by doing the same thing. The referee does not have the authority to prevent this. In fact, the referee cannot make anyone play nor force any substitution.

Accordingly, the coach’s ploy will succeed and his team will be reduced to 1 player. However, (1) the opposing coach could do the same (or have the other ten players become injured and unable to participate in the kicks) and then ultimately there would be Kicks done 1 v. 1 (with the nonkicking player serving as the goalkeeper); and/or (2) the Kicks could proceed with 11 v. 1, but the ploy could backfire since the one player would have to kick each time against a new and fresh opposing kicker; and (3) the referee would include full details (facts and reasonable inferences from those facts) in his game report (which is what the referee in the Asian game did) and let the competition authority decide if the behavior of the team should be allowed — the action was not upheld in the Asian case, and there were fines and/or suspensions involved.

And lest we forget, under the Laws of the Game kickers are never “designated” nor put on a checklist for the referee. Players go to take the kick as a slot is available."

Unfortunately, there is not much we refs can do in the face of such a ploy, other than to properly note it in our game report and let the powers that be deal with the coach and team.