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[Victory]

I heard today a number of teams signed up for the State league are going to go into a second tier PDL group?  If so FWU Skagit, Patriots and others (who knows the others??) will be leaving.  This will make for a very watered down state league.  Anyone know more?

[Latitude]

I heard today a number of teams signed up for the State league are going to go into a second tier PDL group?  If so FWU Skagit, Patriots and others (who knows the others??) will be leaving.  This will make for a very watered down state league.  Anyone know more?

Is there a link on the state website that shows us who has signed up for the U-13 state league?

[Victory]

I heard today a number of teams signed up for the State league are going to go into a second tier PDL group?  If so FWU Skagit, Patriots and others (who knows the others??) will be leaving.  This will make for a very watered down state league.  Anyone know more?

Is there a link on the state website that shows us who has signed up for the U-13 state league?

Yes it is at http://www.wsysa.com/programs/documents/REVISEDMAY122006Forwebposting2006TeamGirls.xls

But my understanding is Skagit, FWU Patriots will all be leaving.  I do not know who else will be involved.

[lightningcoach]

I heard today a number of teams signed up for the State league are going to go into a second tier PDL group?  If so FWU Skagit, Patriots and others (who knows the others??) will be leaving.  This will make for a very watered down state league.  Anyone know more?

Where did you get your information? Is there something posted somewhere?

[Momskick]

This doesn't look like U-13?  it would read 93 not 90...

[nosoupforU]

This doesn't look like U-13?  it would read 93 not 90...

I saw the same thing, if you click on the U-13 at the bottom it takes you to the correct age bracket.

[Momskick]

Well then  thanks     This does look to be insteresting......hmmmm

[Latitude]

I heard today a number of teams signed up for the State league are going to go into a second tier PDL group?  If so FWU Skagit, Patriots and others (who knows the others??) will be leaving.  This will make for a very watered down state league.  Anyone know more?

Is there a link on the state website that shows us who has signed up for the U-13 state league?

Yes it is at http://www.wsysa.com/programs/documents/REVISEDMAY122006Forwebposting2006TeamGirls.xls

But my understanding is Skagit, FWU Patriots will all be leaving.  I do not know who else will be involved.

My understanding is that at least the Patriots will NOT be leaving the state league.  They are not part of an Association that meets the requirements to be a part of the PDL.

[shinedown]

Not sure about this apparent new PDL alignment, but have heard that Tier 2 PDL will have FC Vancouver, Col.Timbers, FWU Reign, Snohomish United , and Dos others??

[Victory]

Could a group of similar skilled teams group together and form a league of thier own?

[rednblackattack]

I still haven't really developed an opinion of the whole PDL concept, but I really wonder how this will affect teams come LPT's?  I'm sure this has already been addressed and this is beating a dead horse, but seeding is a big factor.  By having more groups leave the State League, how would that all be addressed?  I personally would think (and this is a rather naive view, I'm sure) that it would be safer to play in the State League for seeding purposes, BUT if all the good teams have gone elsewhere to play, being seeded would really mean very little...   :roll:

[Victory]

I still haven't really developed an opinion of the whole PDL concept, but I really wonder how this will affect teams come LPT's?  I'm sure this has already been addressed and this is beating a dead horse, but seeding is a big factor.  By having more groups leave the State League, how would that all be addressed?  I personally would think (and this is a rather naive view, I'm sure) that it would be safer to play in the State League for seeding purposes, BUT if all the good teams have gone elsewhere to play, being seeded would really mean very little...   :roll:

The seeding will be redone by next year anyway.  The top PDL teams will want to be seeded and will be. I just think playing the best teams possible will prove to be more important that seeding.

[benchwarmer]

I still haven't really developed an opinion of the whole PDL concept, but I really wonder how this will affect teams come LPT's?  I'm sure this has already been addressed and this is beating a dead horse, but seeding is a big factor.  By having more groups leave the State League, how would that all be addressed?  I personally would think (and this is a rather naive view, I'm sure) that it would be safer to play in the State League for seeding purposes, BUT if all the good teams have gone elsewhere to play, being seeded would really mean very little...   :roll:

The seeding will be redone by next year anyway.  The top PDL teams will want to be seeded and will be. I just think playing the best teams possible will prove to be more important that seeding.

There has never really been "seeding" in the true sense of the word. However, traditionally, first and second place teams received a bye in their bracket, which means they played one less game (which proves to be important at LPT'S). This year, only one team received a bye, Crossfire. The large volume of teams entering LPT's eliminated all but one bye of those coveted spots.

[famj]

As I understand it, teams from the PDL will not receive "seeding".  Byes will be given to teams according to their placement in the U13 state leagues.  However, teams from the PDL will be placed in differing brackets.  What exactly that means, I'm not sure, e.g., placed so that they wouldn't have to face one another until Sunday afternoon, or placed so that they wouldn't have to face one another in the first or second round.  However, I imagine this is still a work in progress.  Who knows what it will look like come next June.

[Whistleman]

More than you probably want to know, but here is a sketchy explanation of LPT seeding.   In each flight there are 16 teams (for example).  The team placed in spot #1 finished FIRST in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that is the Patriots.  The #16 spot is usually a team that finished second in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that's Marysville.  If all went perfect, Marysville and Patriots will meet in the final game of the first weekend for a P1 spot.  This is their reward for doing well in state league.  If there are an uneven number of teams, a team that finished 1st place will get the bye.

Then teams that finished 3, 4, 5, 6 are put in other spots, for example in #4 or #12, so they will not face the 1st or second place U-13 teams until the next round of games.

 Teams that finished below 6th and any non-state league team INCLUDING the PDL get spots such as #2 and #3 and #15.  The idea, of course, is that these weaker teams will play the strongest teams early on and move into the losers bracket.  Like Benchwarmer said, it's a pretty "loose" seeding set up.

So the PDL won't get seeding, but the state should  do something for the PDL teams, not becuase of their club name but because it changes the system.  For example, the #2 and #15 spot traditionally go to "weaker" or non-state league teams. Under the current system,  Crossfire could get a "non-seeded" #2 spot and play #1 spot Patriots.  This would most likely send Patriots to the losers bracket with no chance at P1 despite finishing first in U-13 league.  The other version is that Crossfire loses and we send our Regional semi-finalists to a losers bracket, which contradicts the entire system.

I've read a number of resentful posters saying  that the PDL doesn't deserve seeding, which I can understand, but not doing something can hurt other teams more than it will some of the top PDL teams.  But I'm not sure what this will look like in the end.  This next years LPTs could have more wrongly "placed" teams at the end because of the changes of the PDL, for both PDL and non-PDL clubs.

[Victory]

More than you probably want to know, but here is a sketchy explanation of LPT seeding.   In each flight there are 16 teams (for example).  The team placed in spot #1 finished FIRST in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that is the Patriots.  The #16 spot is usually a team that finished second in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that's Marysville.  If all went perfect, Marysville and Patriots will meet in the final game of the first weekend for a P1 spot.  This is their reward for doing well in state league.  If there are an uneven number of teams, a team that finished 1st place will get the bye.

Then teams that finished 3, 4, 5, 6 are put in other spots, for example in #4 or #12, so they will not face the 1st or second place U-13 teams until the next round of games.

 Teams that finished below 6th and any non-state league team INCLUDING the PDL get spots such as #2 and #3 and #15.  The idea, of course, is that these weaker teams will play the strongest teams early on and move into the losers bracket.  Like Benchwarmer said, it's a pretty "loose" seeding set up.

So the PDL won't get seeding, but the state should  do something for the PDL teams, not becuase of their club name but because it changes the system.  For example, the #2 and #15 spot traditionally go to "weaker" or non-state league teams. Under the current system,  Crossfire could get a "non-seeded" #2 spot and play #1 spot Patriots.  This would most likely send Patriots to the losers bracket with no chance at P1 despite finishing first in U-13 league.  The other version is that Crossfire loses and we send our Regional semi-finalists to a losers bracket, which contradicts the entire system.

I've read a number of resentful posters saying  that the PDL doesn't deserve seeding, which I can understand, but not doing something can hurt other teams more than it will some of the top PDL teams.  But I'm not sure what this will look like in the end.  This next years LPTs could have more wrongly "placed" teams at the end because of the changes of the PDL, for both PDL and non-PDL clubs.

WM
This make a lot of sense.  If our team won its state league bracket and got rewarded by facing the top PDL team in the first game that would suck.

[lightningcoach]

More than you probably want to know, but here is a sketchy explanation of LPT seeding.   In each flight there are 16 teams (for example).  The team placed in spot #1 finished FIRST in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that is the Patriots.  The #16 spot is usually a team that finished second in their U-13 state league.  Let's say that's Marysville.  If all went perfect, Marysville and Patriots will meet in the final game of the first weekend for a P1 spot.  This is their reward for doing well in state league.  If there are an uneven number of teams, a team that finished 1st place will get the bye.

Then teams that finished 3, 4, 5, 6 are put in other spots, for example in #4 or #12, so they will not face the 1st or second place U-13 teams until the next round of games.

 Teams that finished below 6th and any non-state league team INCLUDING the PDL get spots such as #2 and #3 and #15.  The idea, of course, is that these weaker teams will play the strongest teams early on and move into the losers bracket.  Like Benchwarmer said, it's a pretty "loose" seeding set up.

So the PDL won't get seeding, but the state should  do something for the PDL teams, not becuase of their club name but because it changes the system.  For example, the #2 and #15 spot traditionally go to "weaker" or non-state league teams. Under the current system,  Crossfire could get a "non-seeded" #2 spot and play #1 spot Patriots.  This would most likely send Patriots to the losers bracket with no chance at P1 despite finishing first in U-13 league.  The other version is that Crossfire loses and we send our Regional semi-finalists to a losers bracket, which contradicts the entire system.

I've read a number of resentful posters saying  that the PDL doesn't deserve seeding, which I can understand, but not doing something can hurt other teams more than it will some of the top PDL teams.  But I'm not sure what this will look like in the end.  This next years LPTs could have more wrongly "placed" teams at the end because of the changes of the PDL, for both PDL and non-PDL clubs.

Whistleman,

Where do the U-13 Gold District teams that did not apply for the Premier Div 1 fall when it comes to LPT's? Do the 1st place teams get seeded or do they just fall into the brackets?

[Momskick]

Does anyone know the difference between PDL teams and CDL teams??

[Gumby]

Does anyone know the difference between PDL teams and CDL teams??

Know?... No

ThinK?... Yes, they are the same thing, just don't know which is correct.  
PDL - Player Developement League
CDL - Coaches Development League
I think for our purposes the terms are interchangable.  :roll:

[Whistleman]

Lightning, the District teams from any level are considered non-state league teams and get random placement, just like the 7th place and down teams and the PDL teams. so really the "seeding" is only for state league teams that finish 1-6 (or so).  Everyone else into the big mix.

The idea, when they started the U-13 league, was that only the strongest teams would go, so then they could set up a loosely seeded bracket for U-14 that would move on the best teams to P1, P2, but still allow for other teams to compete for state spots.  However, it seems that the system instead encouraged everyone to go to state league, which created these huge discrepencies in games, leaving the top teams frustrated with the level of competition and the bottom discouraged for losing 7-0 in half their games. I think this is what started the "push" for a better organization at U-13, hence the creation of the PDL. I'm not sure the PDL will survive as its been created, but it's an attempt to address the previous U-13 problems, which a lot of coaches and parents feel has been something of a wasted year.  

I will be interested to see what happens.  Exciting times in soccer!

[PrideNJoy]

,

[easternwashington]

EXACTLY....it should be based upon how a team is not b/c they are apart of crosssmoke or who ever.....it needs to be setup like cal south where they pick the best teams for a league based upon the team.

[Whistleman]

I agree in theory, but how would that be determined?  by U-11, U-12 play?  Would the 1st and 2nd place team from each district qualify?  What if you have districts that are more competitive than others, such as D3 and D1.  If state cup was used, then you deal with unseeded brackets which eliminate top teams in bracket play.  And how would U-11 be chosen? If based on spring play, it's like LPTs for 10 yr. old, coaches would compete for a fall spot. It seems as if it all of it ultimately is someone's judgment of who is strong based on different criteria.  I'm not sure I agree with the current criteria, but I don't have a better way to offer that is more or less fair.

[Latitude]

I agree in theory, but how would that be determined?  by U-11, U-12 play?  Would the 1st and 2nd place team from each district qualify?  What if you have districts that are more competitive than others, such as D3 and D1.  If state cup was used, then you deal with unseeded brackets which eliminate top teams in bracket play.  And how would U-11 be chosen? If based on spring play, it's like LPTs for 10 yr. old, coaches would compete for a fall spot. It seems as if it all of it ultimately is someone's judgment of who is strong based on different criteria.  I'm not sure I agree with the current criteria, but I don't have a better way to offer that is more or less fair.

We should look towards Oregon...and yes we should have a "play-in" tournament to decide where teams play in the fall season, just like LPT's.  This would ensure (the majority of the time) that the best teams will be playing each other based upon actual play by the kids, not based upon club politics and who knows who.

[Victory]

I agree in theory, but how would that be determined?  by U-11, U-12 play?  Would the 1st and 2nd place team from each district qualify?  What if you have districts that are more competitive than others, such as D3 and D1.  If state cup was used, then you deal with unseeded brackets which eliminate top teams in bracket play.  And how would U-11 be chosen? If based on spring play, it's like LPTs for 10 yr. old, coaches would compete for a fall spot. It seems as if it all of it ultimately is someone's judgment of who is strong based on different criteria.  I'm not sure I agree with the current criteria, but I don't have a better way to offer that is more or less fair.

We should look towards Oregon...and yes we should have a "play-in" tournament to decide where teams play in the fall season, just like LPT's.  This would ensure (the majority of the time) that the best teams will be playing each other based upon actual play by the kids, not based upon club politics and who knows who.

Could a play in tournament be done for the u-13 state league?  I see enough good teams to make it work but also see a number of teams who in the past would not of had a chance at playing State League.  If left to a random draw better teams will have 2-3 good games and a number of lop sided games.

[Latitude]

Use last years state tournament as a basis for seeding.  Everyone who made it out of pool play would be seeded.  Those who did not make it out of pool play would be placed out of a random draw.

[9]

More than you probably want to know, but here is a sketchy explanation of LPT seeding.   In each flight there are 16 teams (for example).

Its not sketchy at all if you consider how it was done this year.

The schedule will feature all the points of "seeding".  First and second in each WSPL U13 division will be given perference away from each other (even byes in the first round).

Then-for the good of the game-PDL teams will be set in against WSPL teams (ranked 1 thru as unseeded teams, but in such a way so as to avoid playing each other in the first round.

The key after winning 1st or 2nd in WSPL is to win that first game against the PDL team.  If a team can win that first game, then the schedule is pretty easy.

I'm sure the DOCs will try and safe side their bets, but for all teams playing, don't count on PDLs knocking each other around.   To win D1 you will have to beat three PDL teams in a row.  When you do that, you will knock them out of D1 and take their spot.  Just make absoultely sure you train now, not to lose your first game then!!!

[ShelbyJ]

Using state cup is random also because the draw is random.  At U-12 last year, 4 great teams ended up in one bracket with two not moving on (Eastside and Marysville) and in other brackets, weaker teams moved on because of no seeding.  I'm not sure that is any better than using club rankings to choose teams.

I like some things about the Oregon system, but . . . whenever you have a single tournament to determine a spot at something, you don't get developmental play. I'm not sure that I like the idea of starting that even younger.  LPTs was such a stressful time for my older kids.  I hate to think of my 9 year old stressed about a pre-U-11 "tournament" in the summer to determine where she will play in the fall.  Would some kids end up on the bench for that tournament? I hate to think it, but I'm sure some coaches would do that.

Victory asked the key question--the PDL is a group of clubs that formed their own league and now others want in.  Can or will other teams set up their own groupings?

[Latitude]

Using state cup is random also because the draw is random.  At U-12 last year, 4 great teams ended up in one bracket with two not moving on (Eastside and Marysville) and in other brackets, weaker teams moved on because of no seeding.  I'm not sure that is any better than using club rankings to choose teams.

I like some things about the Oregon system, but . . . whenever you have a single tournament to determine a spot at something, you don't get developmental play. I'm not sure that I like the idea of starting that even younger.  LPTs was such a stressful time for my older kids.  I hate to think of my 9 year old stressed about a pre-U-11 "tournament" in the summer to determine where she will play in the fall.  Would some kids end up on the bench for that tournament? I hate to think it, but I'm sure some coaches would do that.

Victory asked the key question--the PDL is a group of clubs that formed their own league and now others want in.  Can or will other teams set up their own groupings?

I do not disagree with the premise of the PDL.  Top  teams playing against top teams week in and week out will develop the players in Washington much better.  What I DO DISAGREE with, is that this PDL is based upon how a certain club is set up or WHO is in charge of a club, rather than the quality of a team.  I still believe that the underlying current for forming the PDL was because the super clubs were starting to lose monies to other clubs who were actually producing good teams through good coaching, even though the overall talent they had was less than the super clubs.

[easternwashington]

Have to take the quality of the team...not club...


....coaches could say where they feel their team belongs...if they are wrong they get booted from the league.