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[extremesoccer]

Is anyone else amazed at ratio between non-local vs local teams attending this tournament? 12 non-local and 4 local. It is almost a Southern WA/Or vs East Washington tournament.

Guess the local teams didn't think the $575 tourny fee was worth it, given the number of other good quality tournaments in the area.

[Dragon]

Is anyone else amazed at ratio between non-local vs local teams attending this tournament? 12 non-local and 4 local. It is almost a Southern WA/Or vs East Washington tournament.

Guess the local teams didn't think the $575 tourny fee was worth it, given the number of other good quality tournaments in the area.

Very possible :?

[XCV]

In the u11 bracket it is more local, however I noticed Xfire has 5 u11 teams entered out of 16 gold and silver combined.

sa

[nosoupforU]

Is anyone else amazed at ratio between non-local vs local teams attending this tournament? 12 non-local and 4 local. It is almost a Southern WA/Or vs East Washington tournament.

Guess the local teams didn't think the $575 tourny fee was worth it, given the number of other good quality tournaments in the area.

I found it especially strange that so many away teams volunteered to have the XFire DEMAND they stay at their hotels, or not play. I think WSYSA had rules against that ? Or is WSYSA afraid of XFire ?

[Dragon-Slayer]

Is anyone else amazed at ratio between non-local vs local teams attending this tournament? 12 non-local and 4 local. It is almost a Southern WA/Or vs East Washington tournament.

Guess the local teams didn't think the $575 tourny fee was worth it, given the number of other good quality tournaments in the area.

With so many out of area teams I have no way to figure out who is who much less predict anything

[yote19]

Is anyone else amazed at ratio between non-local vs local teams attending this tournament? 12 non-local and 4 local. It is almost a Southern WA/Or vs East Washington tournament.

Guess the local teams didn't think the $575 tourny fee was worth it, given the number of other good quality tournaments in the area.

I found it especially strange that so many away teams volunteered to have the XFire DEMAND they stay at their hotels, or not play. I think WSYSA had rules against that ? Or is WSYSA afraid of XFire ?

some of the bigger tourneys do this all of the time, but with Crossfire are you actually getting the value.  Looks like many local teams didn't think so.  WSYSA doesn't have rules on where teams can stay.

[nosoupforU]

I found it especially strange that so many away teams volunteered to have the XFire DEMAND they stay at their hotels, or not play. I think WSYSA had rules against that ? Or is WSYSA afraid of XFire

some of the bigger tourneys do this all of the time, but with Crossfire are you actually getting the value.  Looks like many local teams didn't think so.  WSYSA doesn't have rules on where teams can stay.

I was under the impression that the WSYSA had rules against clubs demanding where traveling teams stayed, especially when the hotels jumped their rates up to kick back to the club.

[yote19]

tournaments are fundraisers and they can charge parking, suggest team hotels, get money from vendors and other type activities to increase the fundraising potential.  I don't think when you apply from the state for approval, the above revenue streams are analyzed for approval.  Somebody from the state can correct me if I am wrong.  We went to Surf Cup many moons ago and stayed a couple of extra days, the difference for our hotel during tourney and not during tourney was about $45.00/night.  Add that up for a Thursday through Sunday run and that is some significant earnings.

[soccer4life]

anyone going to evergreen this weekend. . . since when do you have to pay $185 for a thursday night in burlington!   :shock:


. . . it is all the tourney's.  one tourney had suggested hotels to use, our team got there and everyone of the families left. . . it was the worse place we had ever seen. . . and motel 6 is ok by me!  (clean is all i ask especially at a tourney!)

[Brat Jr]

anyone going to evergreen this weekend. . . since when do you have to pay $185 for a thursday night in burlington!   :shock:


. . . it is all the tourney's.  one tourney had suggested hotels to use, our team got there and everyone of the families left. . . it was the worse place we had ever seen. . . and motel 6 is ok by me!  (clean is all i ask especially at a tourney!)

I'm going to Evergreen and they already have my spot reserved! Its FREE! ( the gas will KILL ME, but parking is a piece of cake.)
Have motorhome, will travel  :mrgreen:

[nosoupforU]

tournaments are fundraisers and they can charge parking, suggest team hotels, get money from vendors and other type activities to increase the fundraising potential.  I don't think when you apply from the state for approval, the above revenue streams are analyzed for approval.  Somebody from the state can correct me if I am wrong.  We went to Surf Cup many moons ago and stayed a couple of extra days, the difference for our hotel during tourney and not during tourney was about $45.00/night.  Add that up for a Thursday through Sunday run and that is some significant earnings.

all clubs have deals with local hotels for a kick-back. But to REQUIRE traveling teams stay in their hotels is out of bounds. To ask a hotel for money if teams are sent their way is much different than demanding they stay, or no play. That is what I'm saying is against the laws of WSYSA.

[On-the-road-again]

anyone going to evergreen this weekend. . . since when do you have to pay $185 for a thursday night in burlington!   :shock:


. . . it is all the tourney's.  one tourney had suggested hotels to use, our team got there and everyone of the families left. . . it was the worse place we had ever seen. . . and motel 6 is ok by me!  (clean is all i ask especially at a tourney!)

I'm going to Evergreen and they already have my spot reserved! Its FREE! ( the gas will KILL ME, but parking is a piece of cake.)
Have motorhome, will travel  :mrgreen:

Gas probably still less $$ than hotel stay!!     Can't believe there are hotels in Burlington that could get away with charging $185!!  :shock:  no offense people of Burlington...  Gotta be the penthouse suite at the W!!

[yote19]

laws of decensy maybe, not against the laws of WSYSA--how far is the tourney spreading its web--just in Burlington or Bellingham also?  I guess you make the decision not to support that tourney.

[nosoupforU]

laws of decensy maybe, not against the laws of WSYSA--how far is the tourney spreading its web--just in Burlington or Bellingham also?  I guess you make the decision not to support that tourney.

Club says; go to RC, Crossfire, Nike Cup and Clash. We go. True, a person, or teams or entire clubs could refuse to go. I will be sure our club sees the hostage holding before we commit to anymore tournaments which partake in such dastardly means to raise funds. Aaaarrrggghhhhh, it's not in the pirates creed, it's downright robbery.

Besides, I do believe there is a provision in WSYSA that says a club can not force traveling teams to stay in any certain hotel, or chain of hotels. But, I will call them and ask em. I know someone there.

[Machiavelli]

Geez....
I've said it before.  It's a heck of a lot easier to hold an auction etc. as a fundraiser rather than a tournament.
But that doesn't put players on the field now does it.  It doesn't give teams the opportunity to compete in a fun environment.

So then, accepting that tournaments are typically fund-raisers, and generally most tournaments use it to fund such things as scholarships or field development-what legitimate complaint to you have???

Either accept the fact that some tournaments charge for parking, they receive revenue trom hotels or whatever, or don't sign up for the tournament.
......it's not robbery, it's not deceitful-IT JUST IS!!

 :roll:

[nosoupforU]

Geez....
I've said it before.  It's a heck of a lot easier to hold an auction etc. as a fundraiser rather than a tournament.
But that doesn't put players on the field now does it.  It doesn't give teams the opportunity to compete in a fun environment.

So then, accepting that tournaments are typically fund-raisers, and generally most tournaments use it to fund such things as scholarships or field development-what legitimate complaint to you have???

Either accept the fact that some tournaments charge for parking, they receive revenue trom hotels or whatever, or don't sign up for the tournament.
......it's not robbery, it's not deceitful-IT JUST IS!!

 :roll:

OK, 1 more time, slowly;

I guess my only REAL complaint would be people that don't get it.

A; I'm fine with teams having fundraisers.
B; I'm fine with tournaments as fundraisers.
C; I'm fine with hotels that give kickbacks to clubs that 'suggest' local hotels.
D; my LEGIMATE complaint is holding traveling teams hostage by requiring they stay in X hotel which raises their rates for this event.
E; NO other club REQUIRES stay in X hotel. And in FACT I believe it's counter to the WSYSA. Now if you HAVE definite info in regards to whether it is, or it is not, please provide.
F; Whether you agree with it or not was not the jist of my post. Whether I could chose to enroll in the tourney or wasn't either.
G; I did talk to the WSYSA and there is NO provision for clubs either way. They CAN require traveling teams stay in their chosen hotel. Which WAS the question.  :roll:   :roll:  :roll:

[yote19]

now pertaining to G you have your answer and really don't have a complaint anymore.  Like I said, this is a common occurrence in out of state tournaments.  We will find out shortly within a year or so, whether this was a benefit to the club or not.  Either competing tourneys will do the same thing or Evergreen will go back to their old ways.  I believe it will be a sign of the times and will take precedence

[nosoupforU]

now pertaining to G you have your answer and really don't have a complaint anymore.  Like I said, this is a common occurrence in out of state tournaments.  We will find out shortly within a year or so, whether this was a benefit to the club or not.  Either competing tourneys will do the same thing or Evergreen will go back to their old ways.  I believe it will be a sign of the times and will take precedence

I still have the same complaint.

Here's why I don't like it; there are some parents who barely scrape by paying all the fees and expenses. An extra $20-$30-$40 a night may make the difference in them attending or not. A club giving no option is in soccer for the money, not for the kids.

[yote19]

and now you are starting to believe that this soccer thing is all about the $$'s.  Personal training, speed training, soccer camps, pdl, cdl, soccer forums, cleats, bags, sweat suits, club soccer is all about $$s, along with club softball, tennis, baseball, basketball.

You pay alot for your son or daughter to be involved in such activities, but there may not be a better investment in the long run.

[nosoupforU]

and now you are starting to believe that this soccer thing is all about the $$'s.  Personal training, speed training, soccer camps, pdl, cdl, soccer forums, cleats, bags, sweat suits, club soccer is all about $$s, along with club softball, tennis, baseball, basketball.

You pay alot for your son or daughter to be involved in such activities, but there may not be a better investment in the long run.

OK

[Machiavelli]

Geez....
I've said it before.  It's a heck of a lot easier to hold an auction etc. as a fundraiser rather than a tournament.
But that doesn't put players on the field now does it.  It doesn't give teams the opportunity to compete in a fun environment.

So then, accepting that tournaments are typically fund-raisers, and generally most tournaments use it to fund such things as scholarships or field development-what legitimate complaint to you have???

Either accept the fact that some tournaments charge for parking, they receive revenue trom hotels or whatever, or don't sign up for the tournament.
......it's not robbery, it's not deceitful-IT JUST IS!!

 :roll:

OK, 1 more time, slowly;

I guess my only REAL complaint would be people that don't get it.

A; I'm fine with teams having fundraisers.
B; I'm fine with tournaments as fundraisers.
C; I'm fine with hotels that give kickbacks to clubs that 'suggest' local hotels.
D; my LEGIMATE complaint is holding traveling teams hostage by requiring they stay in X hotel which raises their rates for this event.
E; NO other club REQUIRES stay in X hotel. And in FACT I believe it's counter to the WSYSA. Now if you HAVE definite info in regards to whether it is, or it is not, please provide.
F; Whether you agree with it or not was not the jist of my post. Whether I could chose to enroll in the tourney or wasn't either.
G; I did talk to the WSYSA and there is NO provision for clubs either way. They CAN require traveling teams stay in their chosen hotel. Which WAS the question.  :roll:   :roll:  :roll:

LOL......
You're the one that used the word robbery, so don't tell me I don't get what your saying.

Perhaps you have never had the task of blocking hundreds of rooms at hotels, fighting w/ them to get past guaranteed bookings etc.  It is an enormous task.  If you don't have sufficient numbers booked into the hotel, you don't get rooms for next year, and ultimately, may not be able to accommodate the needs of traveling teams.  It is a balance, and it is not unreasonable to upcharge the room and have the proceeds go to fundraising.  It's not like the TD is putting the money in their pocket.

I'm sympathetic to those who are on a limited budget, but my answer to that is the team needs to fundraise to defray the cost.  Premier soccer is not cheap, and by participating in it, you make choices, and part of those choices is how you pay your expenses.  I know of teams that don't want to fundraise, but complain about expenses.   I also know teams that bust their rear to raise funds, not that all families need it, but to make it easier for everyone.  
That's a life lesson that needs to be taught to more.

[yote19]

Geez....
I've said it before.  It's a heck of a lot easier to hold an auction etc. as a fundraiser rather than a tournament.
But that doesn't put players on the field now does it.  It doesn't give teams the opportunity to compete in a fun environment.

So then, accepting that tournaments are typically fund-raisers, and generally most tournaments use it to fund such things as scholarships or field development-what legitimate complaint to you have???

Either accept the fact that some tournaments charge for parking, they receive revenue trom hotels or whatever, or don't sign up for the tournament.
......it's not robbery, it's not deceitful-IT JUST IS!!

 :roll:

OK, 1 more time, slowly;

I guess my only REAL complaint would be people that don't get it.

A; I'm fine with teams having fundraisers.
B; I'm fine with tournaments as fundraisers.
C; I'm fine with hotels that give kickbacks to clubs that 'suggest' local hotels.
D; my LEGIMATE complaint is holding traveling teams hostage by requiring they stay in X hotel which raises their rates for this event.
E; NO other club REQUIRES stay in X hotel. And in FACT I believe it's counter to the WSYSA. Now if you HAVE definite info in regards to whether it is, or it is not, please provide.
F; Whether you agree with it or not was not the jist of my post. Whether I could chose to enroll in the tourney or wasn't either.
G; I did talk to the WSYSA and there is NO provision for clubs either way. They CAN require traveling teams stay in their chosen hotel. Which WAS the question.  :roll:   :roll:  :roll:

LOL......
You're the one that used the word robbery, so don't tell me I don't get what your saying.

Perhaps you have never had the task of blocking hundreds of rooms at hotels, fighting w/ them to get past guaranteed bookings etc.  It is an enormous task.  If you don't have sufficient numbers booked into the hotel, you don't get rooms for next year, and ultimately, may not be able to accommodate the needs of traveling teams.  It is a balance, and it is not unreasonable to upcharge the room and have the proceeds go to fundraising.  It's not like the TD is putting the money in their pocket.

I'm sympathetic to those who are on a limited budget, but my answer to that is the team needs to fundraise to defray the cost.  Premier soccer is not cheap, and by participating in it, you make choices, and part of those choices is how you pay your expenses.  I know of teams that don't want to fundraise, but complain about expenses.   I also know teams that bust their rear to raise funds, not that all families need it, but to make it easier for everyone.  
That's a life lesson that needs to be taught to more.

OK

[nosoupforU]

Geez....
I've said it before.  It's a heck of a lot easier to hold an auction etc. as a fundraiser rather than a tournament.
But that doesn't put players on the field now does it.  It doesn't give teams the opportunity to compete in a fun environment.

So then, accepting that tournaments are typically fund-raisers, and generally most tournaments use it to fund such things as scholarships or field development-what legitimate complaint to you have???

Either accept the fact that some tournaments charge for parking, they receive revenue trom hotels or whatever, or don't sign up for the tournament.
......it's not robbery, it's not deceitful-IT JUST IS!!

 :roll:

OK, 1 more time, slowly;

I guess my only REAL complaint would be people that don't get it.

A; I'm fine with teams having fundraisers.
B; I'm fine with tournaments as fundraisers.
C; I'm fine with hotels that give kickbacks to clubs that 'suggest' local hotels.
D; my LEGIMATE complaint is holding traveling teams hostage by requiring they stay in X hotel which raises their rates for this event.
E; NO other club REQUIRES stay in X hotel. And in FACT I believe it's counter to the WSYSA. Now if you HAVE definite info in regards to whether it is, or it is not, please provide.
F; Whether you agree with it or not was not the jist of my post. Whether I could chose to enroll in the tourney or wasn't either.
G; I did talk to the WSYSA and there is NO provision for clubs either way. They CAN require traveling teams stay in their chosen hotel. Which WAS the question.  :roll:   :roll:  :roll:

LOL......
You're the one that used the word robbery, so don't tell me I don't get what your saying.

Perhaps you have never had the task of blocking hundreds of rooms at hotels, fighting w/ them to get past guaranteed bookings etc.  It is an enormous task.  If you don't have sufficient numbers booked into the hotel, you don't get rooms for next year, and ultimately, may not be able to accommodate the needs of traveling teams.  It is a balance, and it is not unreasonable to upcharge the room and have the proceeds go to fundraising.  It's not like the TD is putting the money in their pocket.

I'm sympathetic to those who are on a limited budget, but my answer to that is the team needs to fundraise to defray the cost.  Premier soccer is not cheap, and by participating in it, you make choices, and part of those choices is how you pay your expenses.  I know of teams that don't want to fundraise, but complain about expenses.   I also know teams that bust their rear to raise funds, not that all families need it, but to make it easier for everyone.  
That's a life lesson that needs to be taught to more.

I agree with all you have to say believe it or not. I'd like to see an exception for the few that can't afford it. There are alot of very talented kids playing soccer who aren't from affluent families. I know our club scholarships alot of them. I would guess XFire does the same in scholarships. But beyond the club fees it can get very expensive. So it all falls on the backs of the other parents to get that kid to the games, feed them, provide a place to sleep, etc. Which even that is fine, but for the parents who don't get to see the kid play because it's beyond their financial capabilities ?

There is no perfect answer. Clubs have to fundraise or the price of team admission would be doubled or tripled. I hear the financials of our club at every board meeting, I know how hard it is to get everything paid.  But sports shouldn't be just for the elite, every kid,  no matter which race, sex or income level they are should be able to play. And play where they are proficient. Sports isn't for the sake of sports. It's to teach our kids invaluable lessons about life. Kids that someday will be writing our laws, and deciding on our futures.

[Machiavelli]

At the end of the day, we agree.

Part of my issues are borne of frustration.  I know of a kid that didn't qualify for financial aid, but was very tight on money.  He was offered the opportunity to work off his fee, but then his parents wouldn't let him do that type of work.  What example is that setting?

I also know of teams that have been presented w/ a fund-raising opportunity, but a vocal minority doesn't want to do it, so it leaves others with reaching deeper into their pocket, embarassed to make a stink about it.

The worst I heard was a comment from a parent "why should we have to help w/ scholarships-if they can't pay, then they shouldn't play Premier.

I have a better idea-let that parent's kid play because it's not their fault, but the parents should be banned for being social miscreants.

Maybe tournaments should establish w/ the hotels a very small pool of reduced fee rooms that can be applied for.   Probably hard to manage, but I too want parents to be able to watch their kid play.

[nosoupforU]

At the end of the day, we agree.

Part of my issues are borne of frustration.  I know of a kid that didn't qualify for financial aid, but was very tight on money.  He was offered the opportunity to work off his fee, but then his parents wouldn't let him do that type of work.  What example is that setting?

I also know of teams that have been presented w/ a fund-raising opportunity, but a vocal minority doesn't want to do it, so it leaves others with reaching deeper into their pocket, embarassed to make a stink about it.

The worst I heard was a comment from a parent "why should we have to help w/ scholarships-if they can't pay, then they shouldn't play Premier.

I have a better idea-let that parent's kid play because it's not their fault, but the parents should be banned for being social miscreants.

Maybe tournaments should establish w/ the hotels a very small pool of reduced fee rooms that can be applied for.   Probably hard to manage, but I too want parents to be able to watch their kid play.

the parents should be banned for being social miscreants..

Haha ! Loved this, you betcha.

We do fundraisers, if a parent doesn't want to be involved they can pay the extra. But each kid gets a percentage that goes to their account. And we've even covered travel expenses out of these funds at times.

Maybe the reduced rate hotel thing could work somehow. I'd even be willing to pay 5-10% extra for my room and get 1 room free after 10 or 15 for that case where a family just can't swing the fees. Our team is very close, so we rarely run into problems like this. But I'd have to guess it does happen. It's not a business, it's for the kids.