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[Honky]

Today I heard from the president of our club that the State is talking about designating "Premier" clubs.  Some of the criteria to be considered a "Premier" club is a full time paid Director of Coaching, a certain amount of teams in Division 1, 2 or 3 and  multiple  teams in each age group.

So I asked him " What does this mean for a club that doesn't meet these standards or isn't one of the "chosen" ones?".  He told me that only Premier clubs will play each other.  So I said "Let's take Cossfire for example, arguably one of the most reconized and successful clubs in the State, you mean our team would never play them?...Yes that's correct because your club wouldn't be considered a Premier club.  Then I asked, "What is the state's motivation behind making this move?"  He said that they want all the best players to play together for the best clubs. So I asked him " If I want my child to play beyond the district level, then I would have to travel to a "Premier" Club? Yes.

Is this just me or does this seem like a bunch of BS? Here is how I see the future if this happens:

Even more inflated prices for the Premier clubs, since they have to keep a full time Director of Cocahing employed and they have the monopoly now.

Passed up talent because someone is not willing to drive 45 minutes to a Premier club and if they are willing then your child has to fight for 2 spots on their "D" team. (yeah great development idea there.)

Smaller clubs but just as competitave dying out because they aren't  able to get the tryout draws anymore.

What happens to a prodigy team from a smaller club? Guess they are just screwed.

I would really like some feedback on this from someone that has any information. Are they really this stupid to think that this is going to work.  Someone from the State has to read these forums.  Speak up.

[Squash]

Before you point all of your comments at just Crossfire and the State....(your example)

Think of what FC United and the Royals have been trying to do in the Tacoma Youth Soccer Association for years now. They have been oh so close to being the only Premier/ Select option now a few times. Actually getting very close to a vote or having a vote a few times.

I personally don't agree with it, because it means only certain clubs  get the top status. It makes things less competitive in the grand scheme of things, and makes players from smaller areas less likely to be seen.

I'd rather the Premier clubs set up a Premier only league during the summer or spring similar to Y league, rather than force the issue on every club in the state. Basically killing some players clubs and many players chance at development.

Many of the larger clubs are run by completely ignorant people. With coaches and coaching directors that abuse their power. I'm not sure this will help soccer in the grand scheme of things. I say this as a person with much more insight than most.

Oh and before I get some stupid email from anyone I know about the above paragraph. If you feel the need to email me on this topic or post, then it must apply to you or your club. So think twice before you take my comments personal, it is a general blanket statement. If it applies, then maybe take a good look in the mirror.

[Honky]

Not pointing all comments at Crossifre, actually not even in my District. But used them as an example only.

Your comments very well spoken Squash.

[Squash]

Not pointing all comments at Crossifre, actually not even in my District. But used them as an example only.

Your comments very well spoken Squash.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if your blaming Crossfire..sorry. In fact you can blame them all you want!!! :lol:  :lol:

[sccraddict]

Couldn't agree more.  I think if we had premier clubs it wouldn't have the affect that most people who are for it think.  They think the best players will get better by playing the best, but I think that it would completely pass over some of the talent that we have in this state by making it too much of a hassle and a cost for families.  Washington does have a ton of talent for the population that we have and we are getting more competitive on a national level.  Can there be some changes made - sure, but having premier clubs is not the answer.

[edmonds55]

Today I heard from the president of our club that the State is talking about designating "Premier" clubs.  Some of the criteria to be considered a "Premier" club is a full time paid Director of Coaching, a certain amount of teams in Division 1, 2 or 3 and  multiple  teams in each age group.

So I asked him " What does this mean for a club that doesn't meet these standards or isn't one of the "chosen" ones?".  He told me that only Premier clubs will play each other.  So I said "Let's take Cossfire for example, arguably one of the most reconized and successful clubs in the State, you mean our team would never play them?...Yes that's correct because your club wouldn't be considered a Premier club.  Then I asked, "What is the state's motivation behind making this move?"  He said that they want all the best players to play together for the best clubs. So I asked him " If I want my child to play beyond the district level, then I would have to travel to a "Premier" Club? Yes.

Is this just me or does this seem like a bunch of BS? Here is how I see the future if this happens:

Even more inflated prices for the Premier clubs, since they have to keep a full time Director of Cocahing employed and they have the monopoly now.

Passed up talent because someone is not willing to drive 45 minutes to a Premier club and if they are willing then your child has to fight for 2 spots on their "D" team. (yeah great development idea there.)

Smaller clubs but just as competitave dying out because they aren't  able to get the tryout draws anymore.

What happens to a prodigy team from a smaller club? Guess they are just screwed.

I would really like some feedback on this from someone that has any information. Are they really this stupid to think that this is going to work.  Someone from the State has to read these forums.  Speak up.

Honkey;  interesting concept,  must be in the infancy stages,  not enough information to make a decision one way or the other....yet.

Let's predict the P1 clubs per say,  Crossfire, NW Nationals, FC United,  ECFC, Snohomish, Whatcom/Skagit,  Spokane??

Any others?

[vms]

The Premier system is what it is... a macho group of Xfire-like people who want to show the world how good they (WA) are, forgetting its about the kids and not the agendas of the Clubs. They use the term developmental, which is a crock since all Clubs wish they could skip that part and be Xfire!!!
WSYSA should spend more time procuring financial support for ALL players who are in need and would think they would want to support grassroots teams that , while not Xfire-like, can at least support kids who want to play. I say the more teams the better. Kids who are excellent at Rec or Select will be "found" and make their way to Premier. Clubs like ISC allow some kids who don't make Premier to still play at a good level.
 And those families who think the travel and expense are onerous for the family unit will not play Premier no matter how good the kid is. And thats fine too. But to prevent those clubs who want to compete with the big boys from getting the chance is pure BS!!

[socrtaxi]

Blah!  I hate this idea. I could say more but I am not wanting to drag people down!!!

Allow for some competition and for the smaller club little guys to fight for the top. Rainiers 89 is a good example. Worked their way from WSYDL up to P1. ... why should we raid their team to form a super team and feed some coaches ego.

opps said more then I wanted to! :oops:

[Big Youth]

From the descriptions in this string, I can't tell whether it is a good idea or a bad idea.  I think that any idea for the organization and implementation of youth soccer should be evaluated by applying the following analysis:

   1.  Will the idea improve the development of each interested player to that player's ability?
   2.  Will the idea improve each player's opportunity to play at the highest level for which the player is suited and interested in playing?
   3.  Will the idea improve the availability of quality coaching and other training opportunities?
   4.  (a) Will the uniforms be really, really cool?
        (b) Will there be sufficient parking for the SUVs?
(O.K., O.K., #4 isn't exactly vital.)

A statewide premier league consisting of teams from clubs meeting certain criteria might give us a positive answer.  But it might not.  Someone has to make sure the clubs have the right approach to training and development.  Someone has to make sure that the hired coaches are appropriate.  Someone has to make sure that access to such clubs is no less available for the players from the sticks than the current system (they can't be the tail that wags the dog, but they can't be ignored either).

And for those that didn't see "winning" on the list above, don't bother whining about it.  If numbers 1-3 are taken care of diligently the competition within the state will produce sides that can compete well, while showcasing the ultimate product: Individual players with fitness, skill and competitiveness.

[vms]

I think WSYSA is having an identity crisis.They want to be Cal NorthWest!!Unfortunately WA does not have the population base as Cal South to form teams like Nomads, Surf, Crusaders, Valley Blast,etc as well as a host of other excellent teams. Trying to form a super Premiership won't work.There are not enough kids to make this system viable.  Are we going to have 4 teams per P1 league??? Leave it alone. Survival of the fittest will take over, it always does...

[Honky]

I wonder why the state hasn't made it more public, they did have a good size article in the Nov edition of Play On,  but it was just a bunch of ideas from different Coaching Directors around the state not a State sponsored idea.

Here is part of the article:

Writen by Bernie James, DICK McCormick and Neal Megson

"Start a new Premier League for U11-U18
This would be comprised of ten designated Premier clubs from our state that fit predetermined criteria.  Among the standards would be a qualified coaching director, ability to field teams in all ages and genders.

In this format there would be no LPTS"...blah blah blah, yada, yada, yada.

I admit that there are some good ideas in the other parts of the article but the above idea  is by far the dumbest and what really concerns me is that the WSYSA coaching director is willing to have meetings with club presidents about this very idea.  Sounds to me that this is more than an idea.

Bryan Yorke - FC United, Jeff Robbins & Stuart Saunders - Spokane Shadow also wrote articles.  Please feel free to discuss  your ideas or maybe give us common folk  a better insight.  Remember that there are more smaller clubs than your "10 Premier Clubs".

[Squash]

Thanks ..I missed the article in Play On, but I'll look it back up.

Interesting the people they quote....seems most are coaching directors already....hmmmm :roll:

[duffer]

If Mr shumUcker thinks this is a good Idea he is Crap giving the parents and kids options only brings the Cream to the top making a Crap clubs or clubs I think are Crap would not get any better on there own they would just have a monoply -----and we know what that leads to ------High prices------bad coaching-------over paid staff------- teams that ----------------suck------------Look it is hard--------to be the Best but this is not the Fix Asking Ex pros that have been hired by much smarter peaple then them what they think is Crap !


They would stuggle with the building of a lago set with there FIVE year old

You want to make it better ask the person that Hired these Guys   most EX PROS know the game But how to make a state better at soccer NO Mr shumUcker you get CLOWN SHOES on this one!!Hey I tell you what ask any guy that loves to win what they would think of giving them one of ten clubs And then tell them you will get rid of the rest What the heck do you think they would say!!NO THANKS what an IDOT!!!!

[Gumby]

Classic Duffer...  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

He's  got the right idea though.  This idea stinks to high heaven... what a crock... eliteism at its finest.  

[duffer]

I wonder why the state hasn't made it more public, they did have a good size article in the Nov edition of Play On,  but it was just a bunch of ideas from different Coaching Directors around the state not a State sponsored idea.

Here is part of the article:

Writen by Bernie James, DICK McCormick and Neal Megson

"Start a new Premier League for U11-U18
This would be comprised of ten designated Premier clubs from our state that fit predetermined criteria.  Among the standards would be a qualified coaching director, ability to field teams in all ages and genders.

In this format there would be no LPTS"...blah blah blah, yada, yada, yada.

I admit that there are some good ideas in the other parts of the article but the above idea  is by far the dumbest and what really concerns me is that the WSYSA coaching director is willing to have meetings with club presidents about this very idea.  Sounds to me that this is more than an idea.

Bryan Yorke - FC United, Jeff Robbins & Stuart Saunders - Spokane Shadow also wrote articles.  Please feel free to discuss  your ideas or maybe give us common folk  a better insight.  Remember that there are more smaller clubs than your "10 Premier Clubs".

Honky I hear you but the only one that can write is McCormick the rest just drull so don,t back your statment by saying these guys wrote!!LOL LOL I think mister Shumaker asked them they all told a story of when they were pros then he said they think this ----and Bryan York don't get me started.you have to tell him when to drull!HE has no storys as a pro LOL LOL

[easternwashington]

I dont think everyone understands how close this is going to become a reality.

It is a stupid, stupid idea. All the idea does is benefit the "10" clubs and noone else.

How the league is structured right now, if you are one of the ten best clubs then you should be in P1. You dont need the designation, prove it on the field! All other clubs but the "10" lose out. No chance to gain access, and smaller parts of Washington get hosed!

Please, Please email the wsysa Board of Directors and tell them no, no, no please no. This is a horrendous idea. If the "10" clubs want a that type of league, then maybe a summer league or play Super Y League.

Again please email the BOD, this is very close to passing:
 President Wain Jackson  wsysapresident@wsysa.com
1st VP of Administration Brian Lawler wsysa1stvpadministration@wsysa.com
2nd VP of Administration Dale Warren  wsysa2ndvpadministration@wsysa.com
Secretary George Maitland wsysasecretary@wsysa.com
Treasurer Loretta Taylor  wsysatreasurer@wsysa.com
VP of Competition Gail Zimbelman  wsysavpcompetition@wsysa.com
VP of Development Bill White wsysavpdevelopment@wsysa.com
VP of Recreation Bryan Vasbinder  wsysavprecreation@wsysa.com


 :?  :?  :?

[Squash]

The idea is stupid...my favorite will be when some of these DOC get fired and realize their paying jobs are so much more limited, and cracking this top 10 club tier with a new start up club is impossible, even if they develop better, have better teams, and get their players poached.

The ground work was laid long ago with FC United and the Royals bullying Tacoma Youth Soccer. That's right I said it...their idea is the basis for this thing happening. By trying to force a huge area(Tacoma) into a similar concept. Then you get a bunch of knuckleheads in a room and they all start thinking like brainless dinasaurs. My comments are not a reflection of the FC united or Royals players or coaches...in fact I think they have wonderful players and coaches overall. Just pointing out the obvious that they have been trying to do something similar in Tacoma..it's well known.

The best will be when the state and if the state has to decide on the big 10 or so. Lots of clubs have boys and girls teams and DOC.

Crossfire
FC United
FC Royals
Snohomish
Spokane Shadow
FC Harbor
Skagit
Eastside
FW Storm
Highline
Emerald City
FC Kitsap
Whatcom
3 Rivers
Sun City/ Yakima
FC Vancouver
Eastside FC
NW Nationals
FC Alliance

 ....and the list goes on and on. Who get's left out and why? They all can't be a part of it, so who is the feeder and who is the elite club. Honestly I think the state has put little or no thought into what could happen if they did such a thing.

Many players and many coaches would probably get displaced in the process and youth soccer would not take a step forward, but a step back.

Man I can't wait......Bring it on!!!


 :shock:

[duffer]

Look the state is getting better thanks to --parents and players Putting in more time!Bottom line the teams that are doing better are playing more  practice more play games more and are training3-4days a week.The problem you have here is one guy can't put his stamp on that so he says hey in cal they have a top Ten so if I do that we will be better!  ---Wait--- Dumb arss--If you look at Washington in the last 6 years we have come along way our kids are being watched every bit as much as the Cal kids if not more Washington is not broken so work on somthing that is --------Like-----Over thinking and the part were you would listen to an Ex Pro Its not the players or parents falt you held the door the day they passed out BRAINS !!!!!!! Now you want to make the state better find a way to get parents to not live outside there budget so they can aford a fair amout to pay for  there kid to play!!And work on a scale that would be fair that our clubs can charge.


Now see how those Ex pros feel about you wanting to hold them back for the sake of better soccer in Washingtonyou friging CLOWNS!! I would love to see what they say when you say hey we want to pick just ten EX Pro that could be paid in washington LOL LOL I bet they would SHIET them selfs!!!If they were not one of the ten!! And I bet there support would change real fast.Every thing sounds great when your the one on the winning end! DUFFER knows all  Ps if you wonder why I did not give credit to CLUBS and PAID COACHES parents are the Clubs and these coaches are just doing what we pay them for!!It is our Ideas money that have given them a voice in this state!!So SHUMUKER talk to the Boss not the guys that carry the balls and cones.

[meluvsoccer]

I have heard this bantered around for about a year now.  Truly a bad idea.

Let's take Squash's list (obviously, there are more good clubs, but we can start here) I removed Eastside since Eastside FC is also there  :shock: :

Crossfire
FC United
FC Royals
Snohomish
Spokane Shadow
FC Harbor
Skagit
FW Storm
Highline
Emerald City
FC Kitsap
Whatcom
3 Rivers
Sun City/ Yakima
FC Vancouver
Eastside FC
NW Nationals
FC Alliance

If only 10 clubs make it, some of these don't.  Let's look East of the mountains since it will be the hardest for them to travel to one of the Premier Clubs.  For example (this is only an example and you can change any of the three clubs listed):  Spokane gets listed as Premier. 3-Rivers and Sun City do not.  I doubt 3-Rivers and Sun City players (the majority of them) will or can travel all the way to Spokane or West of the mountains to play.  This will could leave VERY good teams having to play lower level ball.  Can you imagine a Quality P1 team having to play P3, WSYDL, or District teams?  What a blowout.  
Then there are all the clubs which have some very good teams.  SocrTaxi mentioned Rainers (BU16).  There are some HSA Silver Lake , Vancouver, Columbia Timbers, FC Kitsap, FC Alliance, Sun City, Whatcom, Skagit, Sparta teams which all have top level teams in the state.  All these clubs (if not designated in the top 10) would be hosed.
It's not about development. It's all about image.  We want Washington teams to win Regionals and Nationals.  That is a lofty goal, but not at the expense of making players and families give up their lives to travel so much.  It is not worth it to give a monopoly (OK, not monopoly as there are more than one but you get the picture) to a few clubs.

[know nothing]

Duffer and ya all are dead on.  This cartel crap is not just a dumb idea, it is a really really dumb idea!  I have long praised the notion of super premier clubs that are open to train all interested players and have the facilities, staff and perhaps most importantly, the management to support a large and complicated enterprise.  BUT, super clubs should come about only because there is a market for them, and then survive only because they continue to provide a competitive and quality SERVICE to the soccer community.  I want this done FOR ME, not TO ME.

Our biggest problems have to do with a soccer schedule that has kids and families travelling long distances to play the most important games of the year in WINTER(!!!), and the fact that the best youth soccer development is only available to those able and willing to pay for it.  The proposal for a new premier league structure is trying to fix something that isn't broken, and will break something that is currently working pretty well - free market competition between trainers, coaches and clubs in WA.

Contact WSYSA now, I am going to.

PS - I don't just feel this way because my kid plays for a successful rogue team that would be SOL with this system, but it does concern me a great deal.

[Honky]

I heard from our club president that the talk is to make 15 clubs Premier and that this is closer than you think.  

Better start making waves now if you hate this idea.

[Squash]

I heard from our club president that the talk is to make 15 teams Premier and that this is closer than you think.  

Better start making waves now if you hate this idea.

Wow I feel better with 15 clubs...NOT!!!

I idea is pretty stupid, even if it's 25 or 50 clubs. :lol:  :lol:

[easternwashington]

Yes it is dumb, Im telling you this is going to be voted on and most likely passed within a few weeks. We must email, call, etc. to make sure this does not happen.

Have your parents call, association presidents, club directors, whoever we must not let this pass.

[acp4now]

What I see here is a bunch of whining by CP's who don't play for one of the "so-called" premier club.  What you don't realize is that WA state is being left behind.  Why? It is because the Colorado Rush's of the world and like have rewritten the rules of premier youth soccer.  How many National titles have WA teams achieved in the past few years?  Other than Crossfire James, I don't believe there have been any.  Rush is in 13 states and rumor has it soon to be in WA (merge with a premier team in this state).  So, while the goal of a level playing field may seem admirable, let's face the facts, if you want the top girls and boys to be able to compete against the Rush, the state needs to rethink their system.  

Just one CP's thoughts.
TaTa4now

[Squash]

What I see here is a bunch of whining by CP's who don't play for one of the "so-called" premier club.  What you don't realize is that WA state is being left behind.  Why? It is because the Colorado Rush's of the world and like have rewritten the rules of premier youth soccer.  How many National titles have WA teams achieved in the past few years?  Other than Crossfire James, I don't believe there have been any.  Rush is in 13 states and rumor has it soon to be in WA (merge with a premier team in this state).  So, while the goal of a level playing field may seem admirable, let's face the facts, if you want the top girls and boys to be able to compete against the Rush, the state needs to rethink their system.  

Just one CP's thoughts.
TaTa4now

You are a minority in this. PS Rush isn't that great and Crossfire-James has won 0 national Titles.....zero!! Those are the facts, but thanks for your thoughts. washington is far from left behind, and the forcing of players to these Premier Clubs would probably mean your son or daughter would no longer play for Crossfire due to better players filling spots....think about it. :lol:  :lol:

[Gumby]

What I see here is a bunch of whining by CP's who don't play for one of the "so-called" premier club.  

This is one CP that is "whining", but my DD DOES play for one of the clubs that would more than likely be one of the premiere clubs.  It is still a stupid idea.

Sure, this idea will more than likely make for stronger teams nationally, but it will also leave many deserving players behind.

IMO youth soccer is for developing players not teams.

Just my $0.02.

[know nothing]

What I see here is a bunch of whining by CP's who don't play for one of the "so-called" premier club.  

This is one CP that is "whining", but my DD DOES play for one of the clubs that would more than likely be one of the premiere clubs.  It is still a stupid idea.

Sure, this idea will more than likely make for stronger teams nationally, but it will also leave many deserving players behind.

IMO youth soccer is for developing players not teams.

Just my $0.02.

Right on Gumby.  Look at GU16 P1 teams in WA.

Current P1 Standings

Fenix  24 pts
Emerald City  22pts*
Royals  22 pts*
Spokane  21pts*
MRFC Santos  16pts
Snohomish  15pts*?
Crossfire  11pts*
3 Rivers  5pts*?

* = clubs lilkely to be included in new premier league

There is no way Fenix and Santos would be included in this group, and it is questionable whether Snohomish or 3 Rivers would be in their current format.  The teams that are being promoted to P1 for next year are Alliance and Reign, neither one guaranteed or even likely to be included in new league in their current configuration.

The Royals just went to Texas and beat all the quality teams they faced.  Spokane went to the Super Y League National Championships in Florida and got second place.  Fenix went to the Girls Surf Cup and beat every team in their bracket and lost in the semifinals.  Santos has beaten or tied every team in the top of P1 this year with many players who weren't "good enough" for the Royals.  On the other hand, Super Club Crossfire with like six teams at this age group has struggled all season and faces relegation.

So is something broken here that needs to be fixed to improve the competitiveness of WA GU16 teams?  You judge.   Having a big and inclusive club theoretically can provide good training for many players and find the right place for each one as their skills and athleticism develop.  But success depends on quality management, coaching and training.  As the current GU16 crop demonstrates, sometimes that is provided by big and established clubs, and somtimes by one off teams or small clubs.  In anycase, this group shows that an open marketplace is the best selector and collector of talent, for both coaching and playing.

Maybe I am just a whinner.

[MA]

Im a whiner too!  Our club has a few teams that are doing very well and they do NOT want to play on Royals or United. If that is where they wanted to be............THEY WOULD HAVE GONE TO THEIR TRYOUTS! I hate the idea that TPCJSA is trying to force kids to play there if they want to play at the higher levels.
Atleast 6 of the TPCJSA clubs are HUGELY against the "plan for success". They are trying to fight it and being told by TPCJSA that if they leave.... they lose their fields (that are right in their clubs backyards), and will not have any teams to play.
I dont get it.........why force it when the people dont want it???

Okay... thats my $.02 as well.

[acp4now]

A couple of comments regarding other posts since my last post.

As far as leaving kids behind, you are assuming that everyone should play at the same level.  The great thing about soccer is that there are multiple levels of play depending on talent and how much kid's want to put into it.  Unlike, say youth baseball, kid's can keep playing soccer at the club level and have fun.  What is important to the sport is for every kid to exceed to whatever level they desire.  Right now that isn't happening because of dilution of talent across teams.  Look at the difference the state's ODP teams make compared to the select/premier teams.  The ODP teams are very competitive nationally.  Individual teams (outside of the current year's GU-16) are spotty nationally.   The best players do not improve when they are not challenged by the top coaches and having to compete day-in and day-out in practice with the other top players.  The dilution causes a situation where the top players can coast.  They know they have a spot and they can beat everyone else on their team.

As far as TPCJSA, their problem is their organizational structure.  By giving clubs one vote per team, it concentrates the power in a couple of clubs that have a large number of teams (i.e., University Place, South Hill) that isn't to the benefit of the association in general.  There are several clubs within the association that have no interest in a select program and do not mind having their best players play for the association's premier clubs.  It is jealously, instead of clear minds, that is driving the decision making.  It isn't looking out for what it best for the kids.

[Squash]

You are actually wrong again. There are multiple ages we have teams that do well out of state.

Boys U-14, Boys U-16, Boys U-17, Boys U-18
Girls U-12, Girls U-14, Girls U-15, Girls U-16

Most of these teams come from the larger premier clubs, and they have done it in the system we have now. Not some force feed type system.

You say it yourself, it's nice there are multiple levels of play in soccer. We have that in our system now. If you force this sytem teams like Fenix, last years state champions. Teams like possibly all of the NW national teams go away...are they truly one of the big 10. I'm not positive you could include them, not because they aren't big enough. Just the simple fact there are way more than 10 big, good, clubs.

I just cannot agree with this new system. The old way is not broke, the old way is the basis of america. It's based on goods and services, and the top clubs are on top because of their services they provide. Not because the sytem has been monopolized into some force feed communist approach. Think about it.....