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[duffer]

A couple of comments regarding other posts since my last post.

As far as leaving kids behind, you are assuming that everyone should play at the same level.  The great thing about soccer is that there are multiple levels of play depending on talent and how much kid's want to put into it.  Unlike, say youth baseball, kid's can keep playing soccer at the club level and have fun.  What is important to the sport is for every kid to exceed to whatever level they desire.  Right now that isn't happening because of dilution of talent across teams.  Look at the difference the state's ODP teams make compared to the select/premier teams.  The ODP teams are very competitive nationally.  Individual teams (outside of the current year's GU-16) are spotty nationally.   The best players do not improve when they are not challenged by the top coaches and having to compete day-in and day-out in practice with the other top players.  The dilution causes a situation where the top players can coast.  They know they have a spot and they can beat everyone else on their team.

As far as TPCJSA, their problem is their organizational structure.  By giving clubs one vote per team, it concentrates the power in a couple of clubs that have a large number of teams (i.e., University Place, South Hill) that isn't to the benefit of the association in general.  There are several clubs within the association that have no interest in a select program and do not mind having their best players play for the association's premier clubs.  It is jealously, instead of clear minds, that is driving the decision making.  It isn't looking out for what it best for the kids.

Duffer says you make big mistake if you use ODP as the level we are shotting for There are club teams that would do a better job for our state!!one thing about someone that nows nothing about youth soccer they can all way buy a red nose and I can give them shoes so they still have something to do!!LOL LOL The only problem TPCJSA --FC United has is the last great coach they have is done this year.So say BYe BYe to there we are a great club Story they like to tell!LOL LOLWait I guess they could tell a fairy tail now!!

[acp4now]

You are actually wrong again. There are multiple ages we have teams that do well out of state.

Boys U-14, Boys U-16, Boys U-17, Boys U-18
Girls U-12, Girls U-14, Girls U-15, Girls U-16

Most of these teams come from the larger premier clubs, and they have done it in the system we have now. Not some force feed type system.

You say it yourself, it's nice there are multiple levels of play in soccer. We have that in our system now. If you force this sytem teams like Fenix, last years state champions. Teams like possibly all of the NW national teams go away...are they truly one of the big 10. I'm not positive you could include them, not because they aren't big enough. Just the simple fact there are way more than 10 big, good, clubs.

I just cannot agree with this new system. The old way is not broke, the old way is the basis of america. It's based on goods and services, and the top clubs are on top because of their services they provide. Not because the sytem has been monopolized into some force feed communist approach. Think about it.....

First off, your initial list.  I am not sure what you mean as competitive.  The GU-16's teams have played enough out of state to indicate there are several nationally competitive teams.  In taking your list, however, the GU-14's, for example, have not played enough out of state to say they are competitive.  A few played in CA tournaments,but there isn't enough data to say they are competitive nationally.  The real key is how well did our state teams do at last year's Regional's.  Who went onto National's?  When compared to So. CA teams, Colorado and other regions in the country, WA state doesn't have clubs even in the top 10-15.  I am talking clubs here, not individual teams.  Even individual teams, only a handful made it to the elimination round at Regionals.  Even the vaulted GU-14 McCormick team didn't make it to the elimination round.  The data speaks for itself.

As far as Big 10 (as you would like to call them), they would be:  Crossfire, NW Nationals, ECFC, Spokane Shadow, Eastside FC, Royals/United, FC Kitsap, FC Vancouver, and two from a group of a small group of other clubs (3 Rivers, Whatcom, Reign/Storm, ESA, etc.).  As a club, no other clubs have consistency of D1 level teams.  A club may have one or two, here and there, but not consistently across the organization.

As far as being broke, this depends on the color of glasses you put on.  From a youth soccer, club-level glasses, the system is broke because the pressure is more and more for club teams to become select and have to train year-round.  The individual club's should concentrate harder on their club level program, instead of trying to start select programs.  From the select level, the system works somewhat.  If you are in District 1,2, or 3, it works.  There is plenty of good competition and divisions of competition.  District 4 doesn't have enough competition, so they have to request to compete in District 3.  Vancouver area teams have to compete in Oregon leagues due to the lack of quality competition.  Being from Western WA, I am not sure how good the Eastern WA select teams fair as far as competition.  From the premier level, the system stinks because all the select teams are diluting their talent base and they can not compete nationally.  You can measure this by the performance of teams at regionals and mega-tournaments.  There has been a drop-off from five or so years ago.  You also have Colorado Rush in 13 states and Chicago Magic and others also in numerous states.  In So. CA, mega-clubs are being formed.  The same with Texas.  From a premier level, WA is being left behind.

[know nothing]

1) You don't need to change the entire state system to form a "super mega" club, just change your association bylaws to allow you to develop more than 1, 2 , 3 teams or more under one roof.  If you can train, borrow or steal the players, hire the right coaches, and keep everybody happy, you can keep it all together and succeed more often than not.  This is a sales and management problem, not a state rules problem.  From the outside it looks like Crossfire is almost there - why force the rest of us to play your game with your coaches  in your jersey (any one of "the ten chosen ones")?

2) problems with Regionals have as much to do with our soccer calendar as with our team strength.  When do we finish our state cup?  March.  When do we have tryouts? April.  When does SoCal finish their state cup?  May or June?.  When is Regionals?  June.  Who won the most finals in Region IV?  SoCal.  Of course they have more people, of course they have better teams.  But if our teams came right out of state cup and went directly to Regionals, they would be battle tested, fired up and ready to go.  Injuries? Schminjuries.  You ride the horses that got you there before they have a chance to dry off.

[Drfredc]

Today I heard from the president of our club that the State is talking about designating "Premier" clubs.  Some of the criteria to be considered a "Premier" club is a full time paid Director of Coaching, a certain amount of teams in Division 1, 2 or 3 and  multiple  teams in each age group. ...

It would seem after the premier clubs are set up, there would be no statewide D2, D3, or D4 as currently configured.

People tend to only look at the very small segment of what might be 'premier' teams and not at the huge bulk of select play that happens below the premier level.  One such future for WA select soccer might be long needed player passes and regional leagues/conferences for less than statewide premier league play.  

Player passes, if properly developed might allow for quality players from other (minor league) teams and clubs to get the chance to play perhaps 3 games at the Premier level, without leaving their rostered team.  Presumably, players could play up, but not down or at the same league as their rostered team, unless agreed by league adminstrators or opposing teams.  

Without LPTs, one might have a several regional CYL like leagues, or leagues set up between like minded clubs, perhaps at two or three levels for most (non-premier) select play.   For example, N Sound, S Sound, Vancouver, E WA might have one or two levels of league (CYL or CYL like) play, plus district.  

One might have up to 10 or 12 teams in a league (single round robin), or 6 teams (double round robin). They might be subject to relegation between various leagues and District play.

The State Cups would be where teams from these various leagues interact, much as is seen in the NFL and NFL playoffs.  The Cups would come to mean more than just another rehash of statewide league play, except for the Premier Cup.  

IMHO, one other thing that ought to be considered as part of such an evolution would be to limit premier teams to something like no more than 15 rostered players until State Cup roster time, at which time they could bulk up to the 22 player max, possibly even holding tryouts of some sort.  This would provide room for players outside of the Premier circuit to get a chance to play at that level of play without leaving their home team.  The top guests would then have the ability to be picked up by Premier teams for State Cup play and beyond.  Some top players wouldn't necessarily have to leave their home team friends to practice and play year round Premier soccer.  That might just be limited duration State Cup thing, with a few lucky one's moving on to regionals.

In many ways, the end result might be sort of analgous to how major league baseball (and hockey) have various levels of minor league teams where there's a lots of player development and movement going on between the majors and minors as well as between the minors.  This is a proven sort of system for quality player and team development, unlike the current WSYSA system which seems to have significant well recognized shortcomings, particularly beyond state cup level play.  With such a system, top prospects don't sit on the bench of porked out premier teams.  Instead they might get lots of quality play time at a top team the next level down, until there's a spot available for guesting and/or State Cup rostering.  

IMHO, this all could be very good evolution for WA soccer at most every level of play.  Of course the devil is in the details.  However, so long as they are done reasonably, it should work out fine.  

I don't even care who the Premier clubs might be, so long as the few players good enough to play at that level have reasonable opportunities available to experience such play.

[easternwashington]

Couple of things,

If you are one of the "super 10" shouldnt you be in the P1 league anywase. Why does there need to be a designation. Seems to me more of the so called "super 10" are worried because they do not have all their teams in P1. (FC United U15 going down to P2: Crossfire no P1 boys at U18 or P1 with G18: NWN no U15b, 16b, or 16g: Eastside no 16b, 17b, 15g, 16g: Emerald City no 14g, 15g, 17g, 18g: Shadow no 14b, 15b, 17b, 14g, 18g: Kitsap no 14b, 16b, 18b, 15g, 16g, 18g: FC Vancouver no 14b,15b, 16b dropping, 17b, 18b, 15g, 16g 17g 18g.)

In almost every age group at P1 there is at least 2 teams not from the super 10. Thats 25% now if you count who is moving up to P1 at least half of the 2 are not from the super 10. That makes at least 3 out of the 10 top teams in each age group are not from the super 10, thats 30%. And thats a low estimate, it is more likely around 40-45%.

As for Washington teams not doing as well as other states. Lets look at Southern Cal, hands down the best area in region 4 for teams and players, and arguably the best place in the nation. The have only a few big club, but they are not guaranteed top seeds, they have to prove it regardless of the name and with each team in each age to be in the top league, not just the club in general.

One last thing, if they make this super 10 and the other clubs not asked to be apart of this (which could be 3river, suncity, columbia timber, HSA, Snohomish, Whatcom, FCA, FWU, ESA, Skagit, DOs, Mauraders, etc.) What are they going to do. Would it be surprising if they pulled out of Washington State went US Club Soccer and formed their own competing premier league. And then beat the Super 10 in Boise at the US Club soccer Event??

How would that feel?

This should not pass again email everyone possibly or call and make sure this does not pass.

[Drfredc]

One last thing, if they make this super 10 and the other clubs not asked to be apart of this (which could be 3river, suncity, columbia timber, HSA, Snohomish, Whatcom, FCA, FWU, ESA, Skagit, DOs, Mauraders, etc.) What are they going to do.

They'd be the AAA feeder for the premier teams, much like minor league teams feed to major league professional teams (and back).

Lots of parents don't give a wit about their child being on a premier team or not, so long as it's reasonably convenient and their child gets exposure to appropriate level play and training.  Those who travel miles and miles for practices are the exception, rather than the rule.  Also, the current system doesn't give lots of quality players much of a chance to play at the premier level because there are no player passes allowing for such guest passes.  

If they limited the premier teams to 15 players except for cup play and had good player pass rules that allowed players from non-premier select teams to guest a few times it would be a very good system.  This is much like how players are move between major and minor league professional teams -- it's the best and most proven way for player and team development.  Without all of the wasted travel time for year round practices to some distant premier club and travel leagues, lots of parents of talented premier level players might find this a great option -- play and practice at home, except for the State Cup.

There's also another option a Premier league might offer to WA youth players.  It could be a short tryout, single round robin Premier League held in late winter with Premier Cups to follow.  One could play on their home team in summer and fall leagues, then tryout and play for a premier team in winter and spring, back to a home club for summer and fall...  This is sort of like how pro soccer players play most of the time for a club team (where they live) and play for a national team for World Cup play.  It's a system that has worked very well for the US World Cup team in recent years.

Optionally, using the above league schedule, the Premier teams could composed of all stars from regional teams.  Except for a short period of tryouts, league and State Cup play, the rest of the year, they might be dormant.  Such is reportedly how Colorado puts together good State Cup/Regional teams.  This could even be a district/WA regional option.  Some WA regions might have Premier clubs playing year round, some areas might choose to have all-star Premier teams of short duration chosen from local regional select clubs.  

Basically, at this point the Premier Club idea sounds like a work in progress with lots of options to develop and choose from.  Most variants are tried and true systems for developing quality players and play found working elsewhere in the sporting world.

[easternwashington]

Dr. Fred, you always have insightful comments and I enjoy reading your posts. You are right they need to find a system that produces the best player.

What they are talking about now will not produce the best players.

Competition brings about the best product. The product we want to produce are quality soccer players or quality soccer teams. To do this you need an open market, if you have a closed market your product will not improve. By closing the market to 10 super teams this will be detrimental to the development of Washington soccer. Not only that, but it will be the demise of Washington State Youth Soccer Assocation.

Think about it, if I was not one of the 10 clubs chosen, how would i compete to attract quality players to my program. I would gather the other clubs that were not chosen (which happens to be the majority) and start my own league with those clubs through another source (US Club Soccer). Now, if all these teams leave where does that leave WSYSA, with just its 10 super clubs.

Even if those clubs still dual register, those 10 super clubs will not be super in about 3 to 4 years. With the non super clubs playing in the open market, challenging each other to be the top team, more teams like the Parrots, FC United '80, and other like that will be produced from the non super clubs.

Do not be surprised if they do pass this idea of 10 teams and you see many clubs and even assocations and possible districts leaving WSYSA.

[duffer]

,    Vancouver area teams have to compete in Oregon leagues due to the lack of quality competition.  Being from Western WA, I am not sure how good the Eastern WA select teams fair as far as competition.  From the premier level, the system stinks because all the select teams are diluting their talent base and they can not compete nationally.  You can measure this by the performance of teams at regionals and mega-tournaments.  There has been a drop-off from five or so years ago.  You also have Colorado Rush in 13 states and Chicago Magic and others also in numerous states.  In So. CA, mega-clubs are being formed.  The same with Texas.  From a premier level, WA is being left behind.[/quote]



Well now how much do you really know 1 in the last five years washington has shown a lot of improvement we have had teams win mega tournaments and go to nationals and world championshipThe rush is a franchise good for them there progam is dead average!!once they lost the girls teams back to there club they we really from there national champs went from 10-down to one I love parents that have no clue what the heck they are talking about!!!Washington is forming mega clubs at a pace that is fine Crossfire Might be one Who knows ??just giving out so called mega club ownership is for assess   that have no clue if you want one build one if you can't build to dam bad but to have a state force it will be the end of any chance this state had .How many of Rush players are select out of the 10,000.00 that play for them?how many other super clubs are in Colorado pushing the Rush????one so lets just go rihgt to 2 so your story is right CLOWN the only ones being left behind are the clubs that flat out SUCK at soccerThe cream always comes to the top   the turds always sink to the bottom so sink turd sink!!LOL LOL

[Crunch]

Duffer,

Take pity on my poor old tired and frail eyes...  Commas and periods are your friends!  :twisted:    

I happen to agree with your post -- It took me a few tries to get understand it.  :lol:

Sorry if my first post here seems like a bit of a razz.  :oops:   But I'm enjoying the "discussion".

[Squash]

Duffer,

Take pity on my poor old tired and frail eyes...  Commas and periods are your friends!  :twisted:    

I happen to agree with your post -- It took me a few tries to get understand it.  :lol:

Sorry if my first post here seems like a bit of a razz.  :oops:   But I'm enjoying the "discussion".

LOL no worries it's the duffers way of posting. You get used to it. Most of the time, in fact 99% of the time he is dead on.  :lol:

[Honky]

As far as Big 10 (as you would like to call them), they would be:  Crossfire, NW Nationals, ECFC, Spokane Shadow, Eastside FC, Royals/United, FC Kitsap, FC Vancouver, and two from a group of a small group of other clubs (3 Rivers, Whatcom, Reign/Storm, ESA, etc.).  As a club, no other clubs have consistency of D1 level teams.  A club may have one or two, here and there, but not consistently across the organization

Talk to District 1 Commish, Snohomish, Skagit and Evergreen Soccer Academy are their ideas of Premier Clubs.  You have to figure that every district will have to have at least one Premier Club, two if they move the number to 15 clubs. Should be interesting to see which districts vote against this.

[Squash]

Nothing about the idea is good...Nothing.  I support youth soccer and it's improvements. I do not support this idea at all.

[Honky]

As far as Big 10 (as you would like to call them), they would be:  Crossfire, NW Nationals, ECFC, Spokane Shadow, Eastside FC, Royals/United, FC Kitsap, FC Vancouver, and two from a group of a small group of other clubs (3 Rivers, Whatcom, Reign/Storm, ESA, etc.).  As a club, no other clubs have consistency of D1 level teams.  A club may have one or two, here and there, but not consistently across the organization

Talk to District 1 Commish, Snohomish, Skagit and Evergreen Soccer Academy are their ideas of Premier Clubs.  You have to figure that every district will have to have at least one Premier Club, two if they move the number to 15 clubs. Should be interesting to see which districts vote against this.

[redcard]

Premier Clubs in Snohomish County:

NWN
Snohomish
Evergreen
Mukutio (sp)
Silverlake
Fc Alliance
Marysvill

And I'm sure there are more, competeing for how many "premier players?  "Real premier players."  That's what the American way, with open competition, has done in this one area.  Good?  I think the talent pool is deluted and hurting the "real premier player".  The problem is that everyone of those clubs thinks they should be THE PREMIER CLUB.  A lot of good talanted kids don't progress because they don't have a competive team within.  That is what is happening.  X-fire and United/Royals have, in verious way cornored the markets in their respective areas and field consistent competive teams.  They need in-state competition.  I don't know if this is the way to get it, but the current system waters down the talent.     IMHO

[Squash]

5 to 6 years ago, the same thing could have been said about Crossfire. People tend to forget what LWYSA used to be like. They have built their brand, and been successful at doing it.

Limiting another clubs chance at this seems UN-AMERICAN

Federal Way back in the 80's was a great club for boys soccer as was FC Alliance, back then know as Northshore Spectre(won western regionals at boys U-17 or U-18). They had terrific teams back them, but over time things have changed. Highline has had past success as well. Is the state willing to just throw away it's past history to just go with a select few.

I think it's only appropriate that all of the statewide clubs have a chance to displace the top dogs of today. Trust me in time without this Premier Club system it will happen.

Before we start thinking Narrow....I'd suggest some of you learn the past history. :shock:

[acp4now]

It seems to me there are a couple of issues.  First, picking up on Squash's last thread.  One of the issues that face WA youth soccer is the fact that players are able to cross organizational boundaries.  Now, not all clubs offer the full soccer smorgesboard, but most all associations have a select/premier program.  California (at least Northern CA) used to have a policy of not being able to cross-boundaries (not sure if they still do).  So, one model would be to state that players can not cross Association boundaries without express permission of the association.

Second, I don't agree with redcard's point that Royals/United have a monopoly on the market.  In fact, there is more dilution in this area than in most other area.  Within TPCJSA, there are five other select programs (Harbor, South Hill, Norpoint, and University Place, and FME).  In bordering Associations, you have Federal Way (Reign/Storm), Auburn (Aanvallen), Maple Valley (Marauders), Kent (Dosveedanya) that all have strong programs at least on the girls side.  To the south, you have Blackhills.  The point is there are plenty of opportunities that draw away talent.  The only way to stay competitive is to offer a better product.  

I think the main point to remember is that the goal is for every player to be able to play to the best of their ability and have the opportunity to do this.  Right now, there is dilution in some markets that Associations need to address.  The best players only get better by practicing day in and day out with the other best players and playing them in competition.  We should be happy when any team exceeds or any player (like Nick Besagno).  Instead there is jealousy and an attitude of let's knock of the top dog.  My hope is that everyone has the opportunity to do their best and I applaud those top teams and coaches.  They put in a lot of unsung hours.

[Drfredc]

I think the main point to remember is that the goal is for every player to be able to play to the best of their ability and have the opportunity to do this.

One of the things that has made the US World Cup team so good in recent years is World Cup team members play much of the time on a different team.  This creates the opportunity for top players to develop addiltional talents at different positions and tactics.  Lesser, but still decent, talents get more play time on a local club than if they were benched as part of some perpetual traveling national world cup team.  

This relatively simple club/all-star structure works well to provide quality player and team growth for top level teams.  These top level teams specifically DO NOT play together on a regular basis.  One of the things that makes these national teams so good is there is a structure the promotes player growth, promotes the turn over of dead weight and promotes the introduction of new talent on a relatively regular basis.  The garden is kept fresh.  Very little of this sort of stuff happens in WA youth soccer because of WSYSA walls and constructs that get in the way of this sort of growth in team talent.

[Drfredc]

Competition brings about the best product. The product we want to produce are quality soccer players or quality soccer teams. To do this you need an open market, if you have a closed market your product will not improve.

What we currently have is a closed market with quality produce wilting on the shelves.  Both player and team development is suffering in comparison to other states.

By closing the market to 10 super teams this will be detrimental to the development of Washington soccer.

You're making the assumption that these premier teams operate under the same closed rules that are currently in place.  IMHO, this may be presumptuous.  

A decent set of player passes could allow for lots of players guesting for premier teams, getting exposure that they might not otherwise get.  

Plus with player passes, many club coaches who happily pigeon hole some stars in certain positions (stunting player development) will have to rework their strategy to develop players and a team who are capable of playing more positions -- so they can fill in for players who might be guesting at some premier team.  

It's also possible the Premier Teams might only operate part of the year, while the rest of the year play would be at the club level.  This is the proven way that Little League teams create local All Star teams that feed into the Little League World Series.  Applied to soccer, sometime in the fall there could be local tryouts or an all star picking process (system determined by local situations), practice begins in winter after club leagues, a short late winter league, then state cup.  After that runs its course, all players return to their club teams for the rest of the year.  This is also somewhat similar system to how the World Cup national teams operate. Players see a lot more play time and diverse coaching tactics and training, which most agree is good for player and team development.

These various formats have historically proven track record of promoting lots of quality player and team development, far beyond what the WSYSA system has ever produced.

[easternwashington]

This is the proven way that Little League teams create local All Star teams that feed into the Little League World Series.

Dr. Fred please tell me how many of these kids from the little league world series actually end up being all stars in the major leagues or even making the major leagues. I think if you did the homework you would see that the percentage is so low that it shows this development system of players does not work, beyond that how many little league world series has the US won in recent years?

Further that is baseball, completely irrelevant to soccer. If you want to make a comparision you have to look at soccer, because that is what we are playing. Lets look at the English youth system. Do they designate which clubs have the right to hold the premier youth league. NOPE! All clubs have shot at developing players the clubs that do a better job gain that reputation and everyone wants to be apart of it. If you do the better job your team moves up!! What a concept!

Open market creates better product. If you close the market product will drop. Example of this concept is cars. It is much easier to enter the car market in Japan than the US. Who makes the better car?

If WSYSA does this soccer will drop for the next 5 years in Washington, no more Nik Besagno, Preston Zimmerman, Brooks Hopp, Danny Wenzel etc.

[vms]

One solution would be that the Premier Clubs would have an umbrella of "select" teams beneath them , a "farm" system that could allow good players to be seen on a regular basis and these kids could move seemlessly from team to team as needed, eg, for injuries.  This philosophy exists on the Eastside where EFC and Issaquah Select are part of ESYSA. Currently, however, they share nothing re: resources and practice.They are already under an umbrella but no one benefits at this time.They are COMPLETELY independent programs with zero interaction. By making them better partners, kids and programs would see returns.  (This paradigm is already at work to some degree with the Xfire Club as well re:training, sharing coaches,etc.). It would allow some clubs access to facilities, training etc that would be a win-win for all.This would allow the smaller clubs to remain alive and well and not be broken up.
More consolidation could occur as MLS teams begin to sponsor Clubs in different States,  as many Premier Clubs do in England. Then these Premier Clubs would offer better training throughout their different teams. This could ONLY help futbol in WA!

[cheese]

Making 10 clubs "premier" would over time would replace the current select teams we have now.  Years ago didn't this already happen over the "rec" clubs.  There were a handful of clubs that chose to go "select", soon every club joined in to have select teams.  This helped keep kids in the local area and built up clubs around the state.  This is still happening, just look at the Eastern Washington side.

If "they" want a superpower team it takes a superpower minded coach that is in tuned with the kids, knows how to find their strengths and weaknesses and build from that.  Motivation is also essential.  I think we as a state already have what it takes and the programs in place.  It just needs unselfish people to run it that know what they are doing.  Leave the personal agenda's at home.

[Drfredc]

This is the proven way that Little League teams create local All Star teams that feed into the Little League World Series.

Dr. Fred please tell me how many of these kids from the little league world series actually end up being all stars in the major leagues or even making the major leagues.

You're missing the point.  I suspect you'll find that a very high percentage of major league players played on their local little league all star team sometime in their career.  

Did all of these all star teams make it to the Little League World Series?  No.  That's clearly not the point.  Rather the all star format provided them additional exposure to quality competition, players and coaching that then helped move them forward in their developing career.  

Another way to look at it, I suspect that relatively few major league baseball players only played baseball for their 'club' team, as is typical for most WA youth soccer players.  

The all star format isn't all that different for how the national (all star) World Cup soccer teams are developed.  However, instead of having a single statewide youth all star team (otherwise called the OPD team), one might have various regional premier (all star) teams.  These teams might be  manned by players who may have a regular club team they may play and practice a good part of the year with, just as our OPD team is manned by players who play for a club much of the year, at least until they move up the OPD ladder to the national level.

[easternwashington]

Dr Fred sounds like you want us to start ODP again at the District level, everyone knows that this did not work!

[Drfredc]

Dr Fred sounds like you want us to start ODP again at the District level, everyone knows that this did not work!

Huh?  I've never said anything of the sort.

Rather, if one wished to look at this using the OPD system as a model, the various Premier teams would be mini OPD teams, fed by select clubs.  Presumably, the State OPD team would then find it easier to assess who to pick for the State OPD system.  

This year there are also a variety of new regional league structures possible using the new CYL type rules and format that would likely replace the current statewide P2-P4 travel leagues.  These CYL type leagues would be above District, and probably subject to similar relegation type rules with qualifiers of some sort. Presumably, all of the players that would end up at Premier, would have some sort of a base or history at an above District team.  

Just because your area didn't partake of the CYL opportunity this year, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to look at in the near future as an alternative to P2-P4 statewide travel, which surely turns off a lot of kids in Ea WA.  

The Premier concept isn't a stand alone evolutionary project or process.  There are several other important parts to this puzzle, some have been implemented and some, such as player passes, are awaiting further development and evolution.

[easternwashington]

Dr Fred to be honest I think you need to take Squashes advice and research a little bit about the history of Washington soccer when great players have been developed and when great teams have been developed.

Not only that but instead of ideas you receive from different organizations or other sports you need to understand how soccer can be developed to its full potential within the US system. Then take our area (not just Washington but the whole northwest and try to apply it) plus the opinion of some of the best developers of talent (not just coaches that you like).

[easternwashington]

reread my post didnt mean to sound like a jerk :oops:

I really like the talking back and forth of ideas, just want the best system to develop the best players

[soccerisme]

My kids plays in the DesMoines area where we have 2 "Premier" clubs that for the most part suck (sorry Heat and Eagles but it's true) with a paid DOC that represents them both but really hasn't done a darn thing except collect his $40,000 from the Heat and $20,000 from the Eagles. Seems like all this DOC does is listen patiently to parents, back the coaches and then do nothing to make changes for the kids. Just wanted to throw this DOC under the bus because it's supposed to be for the kids NOT for the Coaches (most of whom are paid). I guess you must be a better coach if you have an accent and played at some level abroad. It's all about the money and that is what these Clubs are after. The $$$ and that is the bottom line. The buck stops in the Clubs accounts and the coaches pockets! My family loves and supports  soccer but really how many of these kids will go on to play "professional" soccer. I wonder how much money will be made by the new more improved Premier Clubs? We already pay $1500.00 to suck up in DesMoines! Ha...what a joke. Maybe we can still suck for $2000.00 in the future. Hogwash!
Reassess your values Coaches and Directors!!!!

[soccerisme]

My kids plays in the DesMoines area where we have 2 "Premier" clubs that for the most part suck (sorry Heat and Eagles but it's true) with a paid DOC that represents them both but really hasn't done a darn thing except collect his $40,000 from the Heat and $20,000 from the Eagles. Seems like all this DOC does is listen patiently to parents, back the coaches and then do nothing to make changes for the kids. Just wanted to throw this DOC under the bus because it's supposed to be for the kids NOT for the Coaches (most of whom are paid). I guess you must be a better coach if you have an accent and played at some level abroad. It's all about the money and that is what these Clubs are after. The $$$ and that is the bottom line. The buck stops in the Clubs accounts and the coaches pockets! My family loves and supports  soccer but really how many of these kids will go on to play "professional" soccer. I wonder how much money will be made by the new more improved Premier Clubs? We already pay $1500.00 to suck up in DesMoines! Ha...what a joke. Maybe we can still suck for $2000.00 in the future. Hogwash!
Reassess your values Coaches and Directors!!!!

[easternwashington]

My kids plays in the DesMoines area where we have 2 "Premier" clubs that for the most part suck (sorry Heat and Eagles but it's true) with a paid DOC that represents them both but really hasn't done a darn thing except collect his $40,000 from the Heat and $20,000 from the Eagles. Seems like all this DOC does is listen patiently to parents, back the coaches and then do nothing to make changes for the kids. Just wanted to throw this DOC under the bus because it's supposed to be for the kids NOT for the Coaches (most of whom are paid). I guess you must be a better coach if you have an accent and played at some level abroad. It's all about the money and that is what these Clubs are after. The $$$ and that is the bottom line. The buck stops in the Clubs accounts and the coaches pockets! My family loves and supports soccer but really how many of these kids will go on to play "professional" soccer. I wonder how much money will be made by the new more improved Premier Clubs? We already pay $1500.00 to suck up in DesMoines! Ha...what a joke. Maybe we can still suck for $2000.00 in the future. Hogwash!
Reassess your values Coaches and Directors!!!!

Here is another great point, once those 10 are named or 15, how much are they going to charge now?

With an open market you can choose which is valuable to you.

[lester]

Finally! Bravo!  Soccerisme spilled the beans.

I agree; this proposed plan doesn’t have much to do with soccer at all.  It’s about creating a business.  It’s about taking over a non-profit organization and profiting off the work of the volunteers.  It’s about generating a guaranteed income with little or no accountability, no risk and no competition.

LWYSA’s Crossfire may be a financially successful business but it is not duplicating that success on the soccer field: volume doesn’t equal top quality.  This year they failed to get a GU14 team into D1 ( I know, McCormick’s team is playing up, but that makes them U15), one of their D2 teams is being relegated; they remain strong at GU15 but it was obvious from the beginning where their players came from, neither Eastside nor Emerald City could field a competitive team in that age group. At GU16 their D1 team is on the verge of relegation; GU17 is lower middle of the pack; no GU18 in D1.
Their boys’ program fares a little better, but not much, and is well behind the accumulated totals of the open market of TPCJSA.

Crossfire will go the same route as Colo Rush… a big club but few champions. When the voting majority is on the B, C, & D teams, the A team becomes mediocre.

What the State is thinking about proposing is what FC United is trying to do now in TPCJSA.
FC United has reached their financial limit. Unable to attract players they are resorting to rule changing to force players to them.  They need the ‘B’ and ‘C’ teams and a handful of U11 teams to fund their many ‘directors’ and pay the freight of the older teams.  It has nothing to do with player development.  Their focus has been on influencing non-soccer-people type administrators; as the coaching community is catching on resistance is building.  I think you’ll see a backlash in TPCJSA next year.

The State proposal sounds like it is coming from the same people, for the same reason.  If mom and pop can start a soccer team and be competitive with them for a quarter the cost, why would anyone pay them?