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[Futbol Frenzy]

Will the BU13-19 Boys WSYL season have 14 games, then play State Cup starting February or April, depending on age?

Will the GU 15 -U18 WSYL have 10 games then play State Cup right after that?

Am I analyzing this right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I'm right, is there sex discrimination going on at WSYSA? Why would the boys have more games to decide rankings in league play than girls?

[Squash]

Will the BU13-19 Boys WSYL season have 14 games, then play State Cup starting February or April, depending on age?

Will the GU 15 -U18 WSYL have 10 games then play State Cup right after that?

Am I analyzing this right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I'm right, is there sex discrimination going on at WSYSA? Why would the boys have more games to decide rankings in league play than girls?

I wouldn't go that far.... a lot of people asked for the girls season to change, including most of the PDL people. So the move was made and the games are what they are. When they played in the fall they got more games, so don't so easily point the finger at the state. :roll:  

They are partially to blame along with all those asking for the move. The move = less games...less teams playing at the older ages, and well.....just less soccer :|

[gr8cgar]

Will the BU13-19 Boys WSYL season have 14 If I'm right, is there sex discrimination going on at WSYSA? Why would the boys have more games to decide rankings in league play than girls?

Maybe because they say boys do not mature a quickly  

[Futbol Frenzy]

"less soccer" for a majority of girl because of the many reasons posted in this forum.  


Is WSYSA doing girls soccer any favors here?

[Flyboy]

Answers:  

Yes boys stay in the fall and play 14 games, between early September and mid-December.

Yes girls state leagues moved to the spring (as in this year) and played 10 games between Feb 2 and Apr 6, including in our case a game on the Sunday of Presidents Weekend holiday, and doubleheaders on the weekends both preceding and following spring break.  

Yes what I believe a vocal minority of parents (not actual players of course) convinced the state that the girls were being horribly harmed by having both high school and club soccer at the same time.

No you won't find a single girl, at least at the U17 - U19 age groups, that liked the change in seasons.

[joemma]

Will the BU13-19 Boys WSYL season have 14 games, then play State Cup starting February or April, depending on age?

Will the GU 15 -U18 WSYL have 10 games then play State Cup right after that?

Am I analyzing this right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I'm right, is there sex discrimination going on at WSYSA? Why would the boys have more games to decide rankings in league play than girls?

I wouldn't go that far.... a lot of people asked for the girls season to change, including most of the PDL people. So the move was made and the games are what they are. When they played in the fall they got more games, so don't so easily point the finger at the state. :roll:  

They are partially to blame along with all those asking for the move. The move = less games...less teams playing at the older ages, and well.....just less soccer :|

I would not go that far.  It is very possible to have a 14-game season.  You can start the season a couple of weeks earlier, and have a couple Sat/Sun weekends, and still take Easter off.  My feeling is that this season was very disorganized, and that WYS schedulers just tried to slide it by.

[Play to Feet]

Some of you are misinformed if you believe that a tiny handful of people pushed the girls' change through WYS.  There were a substantial number of well intentioned, intelligent, honest people who made cogent and reasonable arguments as to why WYS should move the girls' season to the spring.  Furthermore, the debate and ensuing discussions of the issue had been percolating for years.  This didn't just happen out of the blue.

Surprisingly, WYS not only listened, it acted.

Change is always difficult, particularly when it happens quickly.  The implementation of the change was not handled well.  That said, shouldn't you give the WYS the benefit of the doubt and see if they can work out some of the kinks this next year?

Inflammatory rhetoric accomplishes little, other than to inflame people.  If you want to effect positive change, contact your District Rep, or better yet, volunteer your time to help effect the change.  

[Brat Jr]

Some of you are misinformed if you believe that a tiny handful of people pushed the girls' change through WYS.  There were a substantial number of well intentioned, intelligent, honest people who made cogent and reasonable arguments as to why WYS should move the girls' season to the spring.  Furthermore, the debate and ensuing discussions of the issue had been percolating for years.  This didn't just happen out of the blue.

Surprisingly, WYS not only listened, it acted.

Change is always difficult, particularly when it happens quickly.  The implementation of the change was not handled well.  That said, shouldn't you give the WYS the benefit of the doubt and see if they can work out some of the kinks this next year?

Inflammatory rhetoric accomplishes little, other than to inflame people.  If you want to effect positive change, contact your District Rep, or better yet, volunteer your time to help effect the change.  

Ok.. can they think this thru thoroughly this time?  :roll:
Is it going to effect a few P-1/2 teams or all the teams? Will there be a break during Spring so teams DON'T DROP? Can they start it earlier?
DD is the only one I know that LIKED the change, ONLY because she was able to play rec AND select. If she had to pick one, it would be rec because of the flustercluck scheduling of this year.
 I am really hoping that WYS looks at the BIG PICTURE for next year and beyond and takes into account ALL the teams

[Futbol Frenzy]

Some of you are misinformed if you believe that a tiny handful of people pushed the girls' change through WYS. There were a substantial number of well intentioned, intelligent, honest people who made cogent and reasonable arguments as to why WYS should move the girls' season to the spring. Surprisingly, WYS listened.

Change is always difficult, particularly when it happens quickly. The implementation of the change was not handled well. That said, shouldn't you give the WYS the benefit of the doubt and see if they can work out some of the kinks this next year?

Change IS difficult, but what can be harder is to have the wisdom to see that a mistake has been made, a mistake that is  causing even more high school girls to drop out of soccer.

[yote19]

Play to feet, you always put your grandstand statement in at the very end.  How do you know we haven't done all of that and are coaching or refereeing?  

My response to your statement is...We don't like being and paying to be the guinea pig.  Get it figured out first and then react and promote the change as positive.  And all of those intelligent well intentioned people made a very poor experience for many girls and families this year.  Good luck with the response next year.

[sccraddict]

Play to feet, you always put your grandstand statement in at the very end.  How do you know we haven't done all of that and are coaching or refereeing?  

My response to your statement is...We don't like being and paying to be the guinea pig.  Get it figured out first and then react and promote the change as positive.  And all of those intelligent well intentioned people made a very poor experience for many girls and families this year.  Good luck with the response next year.

Ditto - there are so many of us that do represent our teams/clubs in one way or another and we do talk to our disctrict associations.  The change was made very poorly - I would really like to know what people would have chosen had they actually been given an informed choice.  This was basically stuffed down our throats - either you change - not knowing what you are getting into or drop your team from the state league - not a very fair choice at the beginning and it hasn't gotten any better this year through the end.  If changes aren't made you will see the U18 year turn into what many are at U19 in the past.  Very few teams playing as it really isn't beneficial to these girls to play except to play the game because they love it,  as the level of competition will not be there for many.

[Futbol Frenzy]

yote19 wrote:

We don't like being and paying to be the guinea pig

Us guinea pigs are not happy!

[yote19]

Thats my best side :lol:

[Brat Jr]

Thats my best side :lol:

too much hair tho Yote!

[meluvsoccer]

Thats my best side :lol:

too much hair tho Yote!

Too much hair for anybody    :shock:

[sockemgirlz]

This came to a member of my team in response to their email from Doug at WYS..... figure out what he is saying.....

In regards to the 14 game season, a couple of comments here for you, 1. Wereduced the number of games to 10 for the girls on the directive from USSFthat the State Associations help in reducing the amount of games that ourathletes play, whether it be boys or girls. This is based on the fact thatwe such a drop-off in all of our athletes from age U15 up to U19. This isdue to player fatigue, player burnout, and player injuries from overplaying, over training, too many tournaments, too many friendlies etc.Washington State took the first step to reduce the number of games to helpthe overall community of the soccer world. The second reason is the numberof weeks from when we started the leagues in February to the state cup inMay. If you look at your calendar, you will see, minus the Easter break thatthere are only so many weeks that allow us to have games, without going intodoubleheaders on almost every weekend. We chose to start in February toallow our Eastern Washington teams weather allowances and travel allowances.  

Washington Youth Soccer is now turning its attention to the boys season comethis fall, the inequities you speak of do not exist in our eyes as we have always had our intention to reduce the number of the games in the boys season. We will examine every aspect of this move and the implications ofour decisions for the improvement of our players and our soccer communities. Thank you,
Doug Andreassen
President
Washington Youth Soccer

[yote19]

I got the same email. :?

[Futsal]

This came to a member of my team in response to their email from Doug at WYS..... figure out what he is saying.....

In regards to the 14 game season, a couple of comments here for you, 1. Wereduced the number of games to 10 for the girls on the directive from USSFthat the State Associations help in reducing the amount of games that ourathletes play, whether it be boys or girls. This is based on the fact thatwe such a drop-off in all of our athletes from age U15 up to U19. This isdue to player fatigue, player burnout, and player injuries from overplaying, over training, too many tournaments, too many friendlies etc.Washington State took the first step to reduce the number of games to helpthe overall community of the soccer world. The second reason is the numberof weeks from when we started the leagues in February to the state cup inMay. If you look at your calendar, you will see, minus the Easter break thatthere are only so many weeks that allow us to have games, without going intodoubleheaders on almost every weekend. We chose to start in February toallow our Eastern Washington teams weather allowances and travel allowances.  

Washington Youth Soccer is now turning its attention to the boys season comethis fall, the inequities you speak of do not exist in our eyes as we have always had our intention to reduce the number of the games in the boys season. We will examine every aspect of this move and the implications ofour decisions for the improvement of our players and our soccer communities. Thank you,
Doug Andreassen
President
Washington Youth Soccer

Interesting ... with a 28% reduction in league games and thus administration ... will there be a 28% reduction in WSPL league fee?

14 Games - $500.00
10 Games - $357.14

Will the clubs give a refund to the teams for the 2 games where fields, referees and assigning that were not needed ... or would they schedule replacement games?

If they schedule replacement games ... there will be no reduction in games played.

Guess we will just have to wait and see.

[yote19]

The state already has responded with "it takes the same amount of dollars to administer a 10 game season as a 14 game season".

Therefore they are leaving the change to the local clubs to determine less fees for the (4) fewer games and we haven't heard them respond as of yet.

I am sure this will all get swept under the rug and we move on as normal with our pants around our ankles. :?

[Freckles]

Amazing -- Lets take a poll. Who wants 10 games and who wants
14 games? Can someone set it up? I'm fairly certain it would be a
unanimous result.

In response to the Andreassen email:
1) There will be a drop off in athletes regardless of the number of games at GU15-19. Historically, everyone was HAPPY with playing each team twice. Attrition wasn't a big concern. Maybe each division should host six teams instead of eight? Stack the lower divisions with more teams that might not care to play as many games?  Many (not all) Premier teams want to play many games in preparation for college ball. Local play is a lot less expensive than travel, although both are needed. Does WSYSA have a fee schedule that reflects the amount of games played? Is it a sliding scale?

I checked out recent GU12 State Cup Finalists. One team had
something like 8 games in PDL league and 21 total (this includes scrimmages during the season) plus six State Cup games to get them to the finals -- this doesn't include Spring/Summer Tournaments. I guess the USSF and State Associations arn't too concerned about overuse at younger ages! Face it folks, it's
about more, more, more now -- and this shouldn't exclude 15's-18's.

At GU17 it looks like the top two teams played 10 games for league and a whopping THREE to get them to the finals. Quite
a disparity. One can't consider High School in this mix.  Most
teams are finished in eight weeks. There are only a handful of
solid high school teams in the entire State and those happen to be loaded with club players. Personally, I'm glad they moved the season, however, it should be started sooner....which leads to

2 - I know this is hard core, but if Eastern Washington Teams are are unable or unwilling to travel perhaps they should start their own League (maybe in the summer?) and come over for State Cup in the Spring only.  It's tough luck that they live "out of range" but this shouldn't take it's toll on the majority of clubs in the state. Many teams had to play on hard, wet, dangerous, barely snowplowed fields in Spokane this past winter. Hardly can be considered soccer and those games factor in the final results -- crazy. All the games should be played on the west side of the
mountains during this period -- I'm sure this will raise a few feathers. But if they want to play -- do it safely and yep -- Pay
for that travel, sorry! Perhaps the season should begin the first two weeks in December followed by a break and pick up again a week or two following New Years. There would be plenty of time to schedule 14 games -- along with snow cancellations, Spring breaks, tournaments, etc. With double headers galore for State Cup, why can't there be a few for league?  

Just ideas. I'm sure I'll get baked...

   :?

[Futsal]

The state already has responded with "it takes the same amount of dollars to administer a 10 game season as a 14 game season".

Therefore they are leaving the change to the local clubs to determine less fees for the (4) fewer games and we haven't heard them respond as of yet.

I am sure this will all get swept under the rug and we move on as normal with our pants around our ankles. :?

True ... from WSYS point of view (they don't handle any of the field or referee scheduling) 10 or 14 there is no difference.  

What they should have said ... Running two seasons (fall & spring) has increased their cost and thus a reduction is not possible.  After all they have to set up schedules, websites, emails, meetings etc twice vs once ... PLUS the combined seasons covers 23 weekends vs 14 with a fall only league..

I wonder if they ever considered going to 4 team divisions and having each team play each other once (3 games) ... this meets the minimum entry standards for the USYSA Championship Series and keeps the State Cup still viable.

This offers the following benefits
- Reduces the number of games ... per USSF
- Spring soccer can actually occur in the Spring
- Makes it easier to schedule around Easter, Spring Break and Home Coming events.
- Planning the Calendar should take very little time.

[Futsal]

2 - I know this is hard core, but if Eastern Washington Teams are are unable or unwilling to travel perhaps they should start their own League (maybe in the summer?) and come over for State Cup in the Spring only.  It's tough luck that they live "out of range" but this shouldn't take it's toll on the majority of clubs in the state. Many teams had to play on hard, wet, dangerous, barely snowplowed fields in Spokane this past winter. Hardly can be considered soccer and those games factor in the final results -- crazy. All the games should be played on the west side of the
mountains during this period -- I'm sure this will raise a few feathers. But if they want to play -- do it safely and yep -- Pay
for that travel, sorry! Perhaps the season should begin the first two weeks in December followed by a break and pick up again a week or two following New Years. There would be plenty of time to schedule 14 games -- along with snow cancellations, Spring breaks, tournaments, etc. With double headers galore for State Cup, why can't there be a few for league?  

Just ideas. I'm sure I'll get baked...

   :?

Make you a deal ... Lets support a new rule that says that WSYS soccer can only be played on sunny or partly sunny days ... never when there is snow or rain.  After all SoCal never plays in the snow and cancels games when it rains ... and look how good their teams are

[Futbol Frenzy]

OK, I understand now.  Charge the U15-U19 girls teams the same as the U15-U19 boys.  Say it costs the same to administer a 10 game season as a 14 game season.  

Neither of these groups play 2 seasons, but the PDL plays 2 seasons.

Not only are the girls being overcharged, but the non-PDL teams are paying for the cost of WSYSA administrating 2 PDL seasons, in which non-PDL teams  don't participate.

[Futbol Frenzy]

2 - I know this is hard core, but if Eastern Washington Teams are are unable or unwilling to travel perhaps they should start their own League (maybe in the summer?) and come over for State Cup in the Spring only.  It's tough luck that they live "out of range" but this shouldn't take it's toll on the majority of clubs in the state. Many teams had to play on hard, wet, dangerous, barely snowplowed fields in Spokane this past winter. Hardly can be considered soccer and those games factor in the final results -- crazy. All the games should be played on the west side of the
mountains during this period -- I'm sure this will raise a few feathers. But if they want to play -- do it safely and yep -- Pay
for that travel, sorry! Perhaps the season should begin the first two weeks in December followed by a break and pick up again a week or two following New Years. There would be plenty of time to schedule 14 games -- along with snow cancellations, Spring breaks, tournaments, etc. With double headers galore for State Cup, why can't there be a few for league?  

Just ideas. I'm sure I'll get baked...

   :?

Make you a deal ... Lets support a new rule that says that WSYS soccer can only be played on sunny or partly sunny days ... never when there is snow or rain.  After all SoCal never plays in the snow and cancels games when it rains ... and look how good their teams are

Eastern Washington is definitely NOT "unwilling or unable to travel".

  It is Western Washington teams who complain about the 1 or 2 games they must play in EW.  EW has had state champions and national champions, and they go above and beyond to get like vs like competition.  

It's too bad EW  just won't go away.

By the way, it was great to see that there was no snow or ice on the West side soccer fields this "spring" season.....

[lester]

This came to a member of my team in response to their email from Doug at WYS..... figure out what he is saying.....
...on the directive from USSFthat the State Associations help in reducing the amount of games that ourathletes play...

Could someone post a link to where USSF directs that? That just doesn't make sense to me.  Half or more of the girls playing soccer only play in league and HS.  The whole reason for participating in a sport is to play games.  I can see asking clubs to cut back on tournaments, some teams play almost every weekend, but not cutting league back.
 
If we are following what USSF directs, how come we don't play 8v8 at U12 like most of the country and why is the state supporting more competition at U9 and U10 (PDL devo teams)?  Talk about the fast lane to burnout by U16.

What a crock.

[Squash]

This came to a member of my team in response to their email from Doug at WYS..... figure out what he is saying.....
...on the directive from USSFthat the State Associations help in reducing the amount of games that ourathletes play...

Could someone post a link to where USSF directs that? That just doesn't make sense to me.  Half or more of the girls playing soccer only play in league and HS.  The whole reason for participating in a sport is to play games.  I can see asking clubs to cut back on tournaments, some teams play almost every weekend, but not cutting league back.
 
If we are following what USSF directs, how come we don't play 8v8 at U12 like most of the country and why is the state supporting more competition at U9 and U10 (PDL devo teams)?  Talk about the fast lane to burnout by U16.

What a crock.

Lester the state does not support those U-9 and U-10 teams.  The clubs get by the rule by either calling them academy or developmental teams, but in no way is Doug or the state sanctioning the concept of premier at U-9 or 10

[yote19]

Yea, but is the state comparing us to California where they do play up to 18 tourneys a season, plus league play and state cup play.  That is a huge amount of games.  I don't see playing 30-40 games a year (the entire year) as a detriment to the kids.  Now when some of these teams bump it up to 50-60 games a year, that might be a bit much.  I definately believe and nobody will be able to alter my opinion that a 10 game season with no notice beforehand is a poor way to run a league.

[Futbol Frenzy]

I wholeheartedly agree, Yote!

[EWSoccer64]

>>>>2 - I know this is hard core, but if Eastern Washington Teams are are unable or unwilling to travel perhaps they should start their own League (maybe in the summer?) and come over for State Cup in the Spring only. It's tough luck that they live "out of range" but this shouldn't take it's toll on the majority of clubs in the state. Many teams had to play on hard, wet, dangerous, barely snowplowed fields in Spokane this past winter. Hardly can be considered soccer and those games factor in the final results -- crazy. All the games should be played on the west side of the
mountains during this period -- I'm sure this will raise a few feathers. But if they want to play -- do it safely and yep -- Pay
for that travel, sorry! Perhaps the season should begin the first two weeks in December followed by a break and pick up again a week or two following New Years. There would be plenty of time to schedule 14 games -- along with snow cancellations, Spring breaks, tournaments, etc. With double headers galore for State Cup, why can't there be a few for league?

Just ideas. I'm sure I'll get baked... <<<


And baked you shall be, Feckless!


You simply do not have your facts right.

For many years, people - serious, dedicated, knowledgeable soccer people - have advocated moving girls club (HS age) to spring.   Since before your current player started.  I remember the conversations about this going on back in 1992 and earlier.

Yes, the state botched the transition.  A room full of monkeys could have come up with a better plan, and cage ful of mice ODing on saccharine could have implemented it better.

Most of the girls of the age that I have talked are glad that the state has finally followed District Six's lead and have league in the spring.

In regards to state cup, there is the biggest botch of them all this time around.   I bet that even you can come up with two better ways to have done it.

The fact was that Premier and HS soccer at the same time were bad for the players in many areas, for many reasons.

Now onto your comments about Eastern Washington.  Where it was nice and sunny when you guys were cancelling games left and right a week or two ago because of a couple inches of unexpected snow.   Firstly, it takes much greater commitment for anyone in Eastern Washington to be involved in high end youth soccer than it does for you Pugies.  Distances, time, expense, lack of facilities, lack of options, lower population bases, etc.

Back int he day, Eastern Washington was a more seperate operation, with seperate run ups to the State Cup semis (with a play in game) and its own ODP system.  The ODP was pretty successful, too.  Hope Solo never played for Washington ODP, just for Washington East.  As one example.  Using the "tyranny of the majority", WSYSA took over the Washington East program and merged it into "Washington".  Promises, lots of promises were made.   All were broken.

The the seperate run up / play in system was ended, and now you guys have to come across to our side of the mountains and endure - for one game - what we have to practice, train and play in all the time.   So spare me your whining and teeth gnashing.

Eastern Washington has been screwed over so often, so badly by WSYSA that now when we have 2/6 P-1 teams at U-17 we are told to be happy and thankful that we actually have 1 player in ODP in that age group.  (And apparently 2 on the girls side).  Remember, more than 16% of the entrie WSYSA player base is from Eastern Washington.  

Not an Anomaly.

Feckless, you sound like one of those "Pugies" who used to drive around with a "tear out the dams" bumbersticker.   At least until "Tear out the Locks" bumberstickers became popular over here.  

But, for your information, more and more people in Eastern Washington are thinking that having our own seperate State Association and getting rid of WSYSA is going to be neccessary.  The discriminatory policies coming out of the state are having a depressing effect on our anility to field high level teams and even starting to erode player bases in some areas.  

Now if I were vindictive, I would advocate banning the playing of the "beautiful game" on all artificial surfaces.   One could make a real arguement based on health and safety reasons.   You would never let your DD ride a bike without a helmet nor would you let her play in an unsafe enviroment.  Besides, List all the WC fields that are artificial surfaces, please.

So where would that high income yuppy fops?   Having to travel to (shudder, shudder) Eastern Washington to play the game on real surfaces, like it is meant to be played.

Oh, and during state cup, we had no opponent hurt on our fields or travlling to get to our fields.  But we had two CPs cars get broken into when in Puget Sound for games and another - with 2 players and CPs in it - was rear ended on I-90 in Bellevue.  And one of my players was hurt when he overran the edge of one your field turf fields and sprained his ankle.  (He was #5 forward, so it did not hurt the team, just the kid).

More ranting later, after Feckless has time to absorb this information.........

[Flyboy]

I have not heard a positive comment about the switch to spring from ANY GU18 or GU19 player.  none, nada, zilch.  Universally hated it.  And this coming from girls who were still playing high school on Saturday November 17th, if you know what I mean.