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[Whome?]

Living is not free.

Do really think when any athlete at the level gets by free?

NOT.   Don't fool yourselves.

ODP, is almost at the highest level, especially at the youth level.  Think of another sport at that level and ask if it's cheap or if it's free. NOT.  

What do you really expect?  At that level?  

Parents/Players really think about.  No matter what you do, it takes money to make money and if you really want to make it at the highest evel well, it takes money.  One simple example; if you want to be a lawyer, doc, etc...it takes many years of time and schooling... did that cost money...bet your soccer ass it did.....not only that but you had to pay to take your test for whatever on order to even start or to keep up.


Soccer and any other sport at the highest level is no different.

Want an Olypmic athlete?  good luck......money, money, money and mo money!

NOTHING comes for free especially TODAY.

[rollercoaster]

C'mon everybody!!!  $300???  Get over it!
Your darling (kid) daughter...gets to play against/train with the best of the best in the State of WASHINGTON.... AND YES, they do have "monthly payment plans" and scholarships (which your ODP manager can inform you about)  ODP is available to every income...every household....you just have to come with the talent.

[On-the-road-again]

I'm just wondering if the problem really wasn't the state asking for the money, but instead HOW and WHEN the state asked for the money.  The tournament is next weekend...why did the state wait so long to bring up money?  I hear there are some CPs out there that previously asked about money and never received a response, but now they receive an email a week and a half before the tournament. :?

It might be a good idea if next year the state lets the pool players CPs know exactly how much it is going to cost when the pool is first selected.

[EWSoccer64]

>>>It is too bad Washington isn't like California ODP --
They don't pay a single penny for training, coaches, fields, gear, tounaments, etc.
Yes, this IS true!
Catch? Why yes, every kid that plays soccer in Cali pays an extra $5 of their fees that covers ODP. Great catch, eh?
I wouldn't mind that. Of course Washington players would have to pay more<<<<

Penguin, why should players from Eastern Washington pay an extra $5 per rec player to support a program that systematically discriminates against players from Eastern Washington?

>>>
Becouse its right!!!

 Your like a woman want every thing equal Tell the situation not good for you !<<<<


Duffer, you are screwed up yet again.  I like many of your posts, but when you try to dwelve into actual logic, it is hopeless.

By population, Eastern Washington has done better historically than Puget Sound in producing national team players. BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE.   Not opinion, that is a fact.  

In games between Washington East ODP and "Washington ODP", Washington East had a clear and decisive advantage - considering population percentages - in winning percentile.
Call me old fashioned, but head to head competion means something to me.  Apparently, you prefer to qualify players on how well they dance like a ballarina........


>>>>
Ya I,m bashing all you equal Rights preachers out there So Bite ME!<<<<

Nah, I won't bite you.  I prefer to embaress you with facts and logic and reasoning and soccer knowledge.  I let the soccer ignorant  cast low brow insults.

>>>
Hey back in the day there were plenty of kids from eastern washington in the pool If these ODP coaches are missing talent than why would you want to play! There $hit Right!
<<<

In this point you are making my arguement even though you do not mean to.  ODP has become such a joke, so discredited on our side of the mountains, that coaches do not even promote it, that families discount it, and players laugh at it.   There is better talent playing in the local Men's Mexican Leagues than constitutes the majority of the ODP teams.  And that is on age, too.

>>>But every one should pay an extra 5$ for the dream that someday they will get it right! You have to start somewere or you can just keep Bitching about it!

<<

Oh, BS Duffer.  Your agruement there is that everyone in America should be taxed an extra $5 because they dream of winning the lottery.  Try thinking with some logic once in a while.......

Besides, the state has already declared that ODP is not really important when they cancelled two age groups last year because Schumacher was afraid he would be personally embarressed.

Come on Duffer, think your posts through a bit better.  Your heart is in the right place, but right now you are defending the donkeys.

[duffer]

I think I have thoght it thru The five dollor thing is common cence!How ODP is run is Crap! but your just thinking in your weird little box again If this program was funded you have the voices of the states parents wanting more and asking  for better right now you just have a few parent that have kids that make it ! And your a bunch of exscuss makers! Shumuker is a week administrater of the program It keeps gettin smaller and smaller But hey if your paycheck is the same for less work Thats what most lazzy americans do!The way you think you cowboys over the hill would be driving on gravel paddling across your rivers and begging congress for some cash for your problems!So yes if we all can pay alittle more for the chance to make the goal better WE SHOULD you backward arss pudden loven cowboy! I think you get in your wifes closet and dress up every chance you get  the way you think ITs all about you just twisted to fit some how!

Ps the lottery and ODP now thats thinking!were do you find your words Was it a flamethrower or a match that lit that fart the other night! Did you burn your hinny

[duffer]

I'm just wondering if the problem really wasn't the state asking for the money, but instead HOW and WHEN the state asked for the money.  The tournament is next weekend...why did the state wait so long to bring up money?  I hear there are some CPs out there that previously asked about money and never received a response, but now they receive an email a week and a half before the tournament. :?

It might be a good idea if next year the state lets the pool players CPs know exactly how much it is going to cost when the pool is first selected.

Look heres another lesson you clowns should be teaching your kids!
When getting involved in somthing ask how much will it cost! then put the cash aside so when they ask it does not matter!
If you don,t have the cash then pass You don,t get every thing you want in Life but that should never stop them from trying!!

And If your going into dept to do this stop Now that is the worse thing you could ever teach your kid for there future!Theres Not a kid out there that will want to support there parents becouse they made bad choices when they were raising kids!Some times the best choices in life are the ones were you think your letting your kids down becouse your not willing to bankrupt your selfs!

[lester]

I thought all the kids in Washington already fund ODP?  I know people move money around in categories to make the balances come out right, but what other source of income does WYS have but players fees? Is that all milk money?

Washington State Youth Soccer Assoc.
Profit & Loss Budget vs Actual
Sept 2005 through Aug 2006

Income
ODP Tryout Income     108,158  
ODP Player Pool.State Team Fees       84,650

[lester]

Oh. Sorry.  didn't mean to send that yet.

Expenses
ODP Admin    1,709
ODP Expense   210,751
ODP Tryouts   7,254
ODP Scouting  9,440

[Son of Spam]

Can anyone explain to me why ODP's age criteria is different than their typical WSYSA league requirements? And if the anwser is because the national standard is the same as the ODP standard then why is WSYSA different?

[juggles]

I'm just wondering if the problem really wasn't the state asking for the money, but instead HOW and WHEN the state asked for the money. The tournament is next weekend...why did the state wait so long to bring up money? I hear there are some CPs out there that previously asked about money and never received a response, but now they receive an email a week and a half before the tournament.  

 This is EXACTLY what the problem is.

[juggles]

Can anyone explain to me why ODP's age criteria is different than their typical WSYSA league requirements? And if the anwser is because the national standard is the same as the ODP standard then why is WSYSA different?
______

 The international standard is calendar year. The US uses the Aug-July standard so that kids in the same school grades can play together.[/quote]

[juggles]

Another great thing I've noticed is that if you follow the link on the WSYSA website to pay the fee for the Nike tournament  there is no mention of said tournament...what a joke.

[EWSoccer64]

>>>ODP Tryout Income 108,158 <<<<

Err?  WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Tryout income for ODP?   100 Grand???
They have a 1,000 kids trying out at 100 a pop??
We keep being told that most if not all of the players are there by invitation.  Supposedly the state ODP is scouting games and selecting players.    Something does not add up.


Oh, for the ignorant cracker who claimed that Eastern Washington teams have not won many state championships, before the last five years, Eastern Washington won a bit more than its population base warrented.    And it has always been over-represented in Premier, judging by population base.   Perhaps that is another reason for PDL?   Another mechanism to exclude Eastern Washington because some of the self proclaimed super clubs have difficulties with the Eastern Washington teams?   Which do not charge their kids nearly as much?  Which do not provide life time jobs for youth coaches?  
  And you can have great players come from mediocre or poor teams.  I had a player make ODP from a first year team of inexperienced players that played poorly as they were forced into a league that was over there heads.  Just as an example.



Yes, there are more opportunities over on the other side of the mountains.  But then, there are more opportunities in California, too.

And Hope Solo is directly relevent to the ODP mission.  Which is to develop players to represent this country, successfully.   Just because Washington ODP has failed to do so, is no reason to dismiss the accomplishments of Eastern Washington.

Oh, Duffer, quit getting your depends all in a twist.  the Washington ODP is funded (in part, or in whole) by the WYS.   Which means that it is funded by people in Eastern Washington as well as Puget Sound.   It is really that simple Duffer.  Even you can understand it.
If we fund it, we should have equal access to it.  Go back to slinging silly insults and leave the serious debate to those who understand soccer.   :mrgreen:

[juggles]

Oh, for the ignorant cracker who claimed that Eastern Washington teams have not won many state championships, before the last five years, Eastern Washington won a bit more than its population base warrented

If you really think I'm a cracker then you must be a total jackass.....there's nothing you can do about the population discrepancy between east and west and the fact that it favors the west. So get over it and quit whining.

[EWSoccer64]

Oh, for the ignorant cracker who claimed that Eastern Washington teams have not won many state championships, before the last five years, Eastern Washington won a bit more than its population base warrented

If you really think I'm a cracker then you must be a total jackass.....there's nothing you can do about the population discrepancy between east and west and the fact that it favors the west. So get over it and quit whining.

Once again you dodge, juggles.
Cracker?  Maybe.
That your remarks have been ignorant is self evident.

I never said that there was not a population disparity between east and west.  In fact, I alluded to it repeatedly.   And "Disparity" is the word that you should use in this situation, not "Discrepancy".

There is such a concept as the "tyranny of the majority".   Perhaps you heard about in High School civics classes?  There is such a thing as discrimination, as well.

[breakaway]

It is definitely true that some of the players involved will withdraw because of the fees. Biggest problem that i have is informing parents at the last minute about the fees. The fee schedule ought to have been available when players initially attended tryouts. I'm totally miffed about the $300 pool fee....what does that cover and for what time period. There will also be an additional charge incurred for those players who attend regional camp in July. This year,because of the Manchester United tournament ,the majority of regular ODP players will not be attending the ODP tournament as they are both held over the Memorial day weekend. Players who have never been involved in the ODP program were recruited solely so that a team would be available to compete.

I've always heard ODP didn't cost anything unless your daughter was on the travel team.  So, the question above is a good one - is the $300 pool fee a new fee this year, and what does it include and for what time period?  I'm sure someone knows that can clarify.

...There is also financial information regarding participation in the program. With the support of Washington State Youth Soccer the cost to prepare and train the players is set a cost of $300.00 per player.  The fees include tournament fees, equipment, field rentals, registration, insurance and ground transportation when needed.  The pool fee does not cover expenses for team managers, coaches, or administrators as we are all volunteers....  

Why tournament fees? If you are paying $350pp to participate in the tournament.
Why equipment?  Really why equipment?
Why field rentals?  It was announced that all ODP field time was donated by Starfire.  So why field rentals again?  Did Starfire reneg?
Why registration?  What are they registered for?  The pool?
Why Insurance?  Every soccer player in the state is insured, am I wrong?
Why Ground Transportation?  Why pay for ground transportation when each parent is required to drive their player to Portland.  Again, what is the $350pp for the Portland trip covering if none of it is going towards ground transportation, tournament fees or equipment?  Help clear my foggy mind.

Let me clear some of the fog in your brain.
Starfire did not donated field usage.  But that is really between WYS and the complex.Therfore they did not reneg on anything. Unless you have something in writting to prove me wrong, and further more when my DK was invited to try out I called the ODP director "before" try out's and asked for an estimated cost if my DK were "skilled" enough to make the team. I was given the approx. cost that you are complaining about now.
If you don't ask the questions, you'll never know the answer. With all due respect you sound very bitter, did your DD not make the pool?[/quote]

Cookie that quote is so old.  Just let it go.

Cookie, I thought I was joining a discussion in the form, It was asked what the money was for, and I was attempting to assist in figuring it out and now you decide to take a stab at me.
I guess you feel really good being that you were one in a few that received the correct information.  Throughout this whole thread it is clear that many didn't receive the information you did no matter how proactive they were, so taking a stab at me I sincerely hope made you feel a little bit better.
So you accuse me of being bitter because I, like many others would like to know where my money is going for this new found fee.  So tell me, would you call me bitter if I asked for an itemized statement of exactly how the money is being used?
Too some, like you $300 is just pocket change, but to others they feel it necessary to wonder because they don't just freely throw their money away.  Now I am bitter because I am part of the latter and wouldn't dare spending even $300 on my DD's prom shoes.

I could make assumptions about you too, but I won't even go there.  Good Luck to you and yours, see you in Portland.  

[touchline trouble]

Mmmmmmm...

[onthebench]

Mmmmmmmmmmm.........................what???

[Dragon]

Wow!

Have not read this whole thread yet, but met TWO players this weekend (that not only made pool but also the 1st travel team), that Dropped out!!!!!!

[Victory]

Wow!

Have not read this whole thread yet, but met TWO players this weekend (that not only made pool but also the 1st travel team), that Dropped out!!!!!!

I said before if DD made it we would find the money but here is one to think about.  Those who know Marta's story know she is from a large poor family in Brazil.  Do you think her family could pay these kind of fees?

[lifesaverplaya]

I agree with whome...I agree with Duffers last comment and Victory...I knew a year or two ago when listening to people talk about how expensive ODP was and started planning then... My DD starting saving this fall...She asked all of her family members for any cash for Birthdays and Christmas for her upcoming soccer..She saw that premier has already been expensive enough with all of the traveling tournaments and thousands of dollars spent every year she new that ODP was gonna be added on top of what soccer has already cost...My DD paid her entire 300 and all extra clothes...Thats how much she loves soccer..No starbucks for a month might be 20 to 100..don't go to movies, dont eat out..dont buy so many new outfits or sandels this summer.......Give me a Break!!!!Nothing in this world is free!!! If Washington failed in letting you know ahead a time then I am sorry, so tell them you need to pay half now and half in month...Figure it out...Oregon paid 300 within a week after making the team!!! Sorry to tell you but the kids only get more expensive as they get older..Like Victory said its too bad because many girls would love to be playing and having the opportunity...Victory sounds like me...somehow you find a way :mrgreen:

[EWSoccer64]

Wow!

Have not read this whole thread yet, but met TWO players this weekend (that not only made pool but also the 1st travel team), that Dropped out!!!!!!

To what did they attribute this to, Dragon?

[breakaway]

We all know that nothing in life is free, but payments or favors don’t always have to be monetary.

A college scholarship is not free, those kids PLAY for the education, and depending on how well they play (NCAA finals) there is a monetary kick back to their institution for their team’s successes.  But it didn’t come free.

ODP is technically Washington State’s “All Star Teams”.  These players are the best of the best coming out of this state to represent Washington.  These kids we are talking about are 12, 13 years old, is it really that serious, or just another way for the state to BOP us on the head and say gives us your money (and if you don’t we know somebody else will).

If Washington truly wanted the best players it wouldn’t and shouldn’t matter what side of the tracks they come from and it should not cost any of these players.  
Those 95’s are pulling out because of financial reasons, and those 95’s seem to be some of the most gifted players this side of the Mississippi IMHO.  Some can afford it, but have a financial commitment to one team and one team only.  Others can afford it and like some don’t mind handing the money over with no questions asked and yet there are a few who cannot afford the program and unfortunately will pull out rather than ask for a scholarship.

If US Club Soccer’s ID2 program can bring kids into regional camps completely sponsored, with the same intentions of finding the best talent to represent the U.S., Why can’t ODP do the same?

Especially if its truly about finding the best players, not just any old mediocre player who is willing to come up with the money any way any how.