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[2 CENTS]

They may as well just get rid of it and rank the clubs by size, the results would be about the same.

It is like comparing Wal-Mart, Safeway and QFC by how much profit they make
without taking into consideration their total sales and/or store count.
If you gave each company 10 points for every billion $'s they earn in profit, Wal-Mart would get 100 points, Safeway would get 10 and QFC would have 0.

Most of the clubs at the bottom are getting about the number of points they should get proportionate to their size, it is unlikely it will change much. Looks like Reign is over performing.

The small clubs will never be able to compete in points with the large clubs without growing their numbers by recruiting or merging, this explains one of the reasons they are trying to create more B, C and D teams.

If you put the association count of Greater Renton, DOS, Marauders & Synergy all together they are smaller than Crossfire, add in Reign and they would still be smaller than a couple of the Mega clubs.

In fact, there is a real possibility that some of the larger clubs are underperforming, under this system it is hidden.

Questions:

Is the PDL point system completely flawed?

Does anybody really think any of the small clubs will be able to
compete in points with the large clubs?

Are some of the large clubs underperforming?

Can Black Hills compete any better than the Marauders as a club?  they are both small clubs almost the same size. and I'm not knocking either one of them.

[windy90]

Suggestion for measuring the strength of a club.  # of PDL points/(divided by # of teams, or # of total players).

[EWSoccer64]

2 cents,

You are missing the point, or perhaps hammering it home in a clever way.

The PDL is designed to restrict competition and to promote the Big Clubs at the expense of the smaller ones.    The point system is merely reflective of that.

[2 CENTS]

For Example:

Take the Total Association count      

CLUB A 7907   
CLUB B 12499
CLUB C 1386   
CLUB D 2156   
      
TOTAL   23948   

Calculate their % of the total

CLUB A 7907   33.02%
CLUB B 12499         52.19%
CLUB C 1386     5.79%
CLUB D 2156     9.00%      

figure out the total number of points available to earn      
Qrts      
Semis      
Finals      

Say it is 1000

CLUB A should get at least 33% or 330      
CLUB B should get at least 52% or 521      
CLUB C should get at least 06% or 58      
CLUB D should get at least 09% or 90

If they are not getting their share, they are underperforming.

[EWSoccer64]

2 cents, that is exactly the opposite of what the PDL "Leadership Committee" wants to do.

[DriveByCP]

Destruction, complete annhiliation of the smaller competetive clubs like Black Hills, Marauders, GRFC, 3 rivers, SCFC, MRFC etc. is one of the goals of the PDL.  Kudos to FCSC for getting it.  Good luck to Black Hills etc. in keeping up with PDL's ever changing requirements.

[ShelbyJ]

They may as well just get rid of it and rank the clubs by size, the results would be about the same.

It is like comparing Wal-Mart, Safeway and QFC by how much profit they make
without taking into consideration their total sales and/or store count.
If you gave each company 10 points for every billion $'s they earn in profit, Wal-Mart would get 100 points, Safeway would get 10 and QFC would have 0.

Most of the clubs at the bottom are getting about the number of points they should get proportionate to their size, it is unlikely it will change much. Looks like Reign is over performing.

The small clubs will never be able to compete in points with the large clubs without growing their numbers by recruiting or merging, this explains one of the reasons they are trying to create more B, C and D teams.

If you put the association count of Greater Renton, DOS, Marauders & Synergy all together they are smaller than Crossfire, add in Reign and they would still be smaller than a couple of the Mega clubs.

In fact, there is a real possibility that some of the larger clubs are underperforming, under this system it is hidden.

Questions:

Is the PDL point system completely flawed?

Does anybody really think any of the small clubs will be able to
compete in points with the large clubs?

Are some of the large clubs underperforming?

Can Black Hills compete any better than the Marauders as a club?  they are both small clubs almost the same size. and I'm not knocking either one of them.

Okay, just to play devil's advocate here--I can see how this applies to Crossfire, but who else is so much bigger in number?

Looking at the top few PDL clubs in points, WPFC has only one team per age at the older age groups, and no points for their boys teams at older age groups because of Academy.  At U15, there is 1 boys team and 2 girls teams; U14, 2 boys teams and two girls teams, etc.

At ECFC, there are 2 teams at each age group, again with some older ages having only 1 team.

At EFC there are 2 teams at the PDL age groups, but at the older boys only 1 team at some age groups.

Same is true for Reign and Dos . . . 2 teams at the age groups, but at the older ages, generally one team.

The younger age groups don't count towards points, correct (such as U11 where there might be several teams).

So how does this make EFC or ECFC a mega club in terms of size?  Doesn't GRFC have 2 teams at the PDL age groups? does that make them a mega club or a small club?

As for 2Cents point about Association size, I can see something here. There are areas that can only field so many top teams and they deserve a fair shake, but then, should we get special bonuses at Regionals because So Cal has a larger population?  

BTW, I don't disagree that the point system is flawed, but I'm not sure it's flawed because of size bias.  I see a lot more issues in it than this.  As EW says, the system is set up to achieve what it's achieving.

[PrideNJoy]

points schmoints

[DriveByCP]

destruction, smashing into non existince, maybe crushing, sending into oblivoion, fate of the not big clubs, SCFC gets it, does GRFC?

[PrideNJoy]

I just crack up at the shift in perception of GRFC the past month or so.  from a cute little club that's trying real hard,  to an evil big club that doesn't get it lol.   nothings changed , but apparently it has.

sqush, i'm feelin dirty again

[DriveByCP]

neither GRFC nor BHFC is an evil club, both are triyng to do the best they can for their children and the parents paying for the PDL label, god help them.

[Black Knight]

i think the point system makes perfect sense for what they are trying to do. It goes directly side by side with what they have stated on their website, and when it comes to criterea that it takes to be part of the PDL its not like they have hiddin all of this, I think that if someone though disagrees with their views on how they want to approach it then they say they are being dishonest or shady. On their website they state this:

"The PDL seeks to play "like vs. like" teams in competitive leagues among clubs that consistently demonstrate the ability to develop Championship Cup caliber teams, ODP players, and a commitment to appropriate developmental philosophies for youth."

thats pertty straight forward and makes sense with how they are doing the point system. you get more points if your in the championship cup, So obviously it rewards the clubs that have more teams, since more of their teams can enter the championship cups. It also states that it pushes for clubs to send players through the ODP system And once again that rewards the bigger clubs which have more players to send to the ODP system.

Lets forget about the PDL clubs for a minute, If someone were to ask you if you were able to create your own development program for a premier club, how would you structure it? Assume that player numbers weren't an issue, and you could have as many coaches as you wanted. Assume money wasn't an issue either. I know if you gave me those guidlines I would start by saying i would want multiple teams at every age group so i could use a semi squad system, and have a different team level for all my players. Also as players get older a lot of them in high school decide to stop playing. Well I know when that happens its nice to have a B and C team to pull players from. So if you asked me I would want a minumum of 2 teams at every age group fo each gender. I think most people would agree that would be ideal. So if the PDL is supposed to support clubs that are putting players in the best position to develop and grow for the future, and if your idea situation if you were a coaching director or ran your on club was anything like mine, then wouldn't you reward the clubs that are already doing that?

[ShelbyJ]

I just crack up at the shift in perception of GRFC the past month or so.  from a cute little club that's trying real hard,  to an evil big club that doesn't get it lol.   nothings changed , but apparently it has.

sqush, i'm feelin dirty again

Yes, welcome to the world of belonging to the PDL. You've now joined the gang of bullies  :mrgreen:

[Back In BLACK]

I just crack up at the shift in perception of GRFC the past month or so.  from a cute little club that's trying real hard,  to an evil big club that doesn't get it lol.   nothings changed , but apparently it has.

sqush, i'm feelin dirty again

Yes, welcome to the world of belonging to the PDL. You've now joined the gang of bullies  :mrgreen:

As much negative press goes towards the PDL and why anyone would want to belong to this organizition; why do any of the  "small" clubs want in???   :?  

Then you have to ask yourself if the PDL is so wrong then what does that say about your neighborhood club that tries to do everything they can to gain acceptance into the PDL?  Are all the clubs wanting in part of the problem?  If nobody wanted to join then how effective would the pdl be?  And if a neighborhood club preachers the importance of getting into the pdl to its members and doesn't gain entry then wouldn't you expect those parents listening to the PDL proganda to go elsewhere?

[2 CENTS]

They may as well just get rid of it and rank the clubs by size, the results would be about the same.

It is like comparing Wal-Mart, Safeway and QFC by how much profit they make
without taking into consideration their total sales and/or store count.
If you gave each company 10 points for every billion $'s they earn in profit, Wal-Mart would get 100 points, Safeway would get 10 and QFC would have 0.

Most of the clubs at the bottom are getting about the number of points they should get proportionate to their size, it is unlikely it will change much. Looks like Reign is over performing.

The small clubs will never be able to compete in points with the large clubs without growing their numbers by recruiting or merging, this explains one of the reasons they are trying to create more B, C and D teams.

If you put the association count of Greater Renton, DOS, Marauders & Synergy all together they are smaller than Crossfire, add in Reign and they would still be smaller than a couple of the Mega clubs.

In fact, there is a real possibility that some of the larger clubs are underperforming, under this system it is hidden.

Questions:

Is the PDL point system completely flawed?

Does anybody really think any of the small clubs will be able to
compete in points with the large clubs?

Are some of the large clubs underperforming?

Can Black Hills compete any better than the Marauders as a club?  they are both small clubs almost the same size. and I'm not knocking either one of them.

Okay, just to play devil's advocate here--I can see how this applies to Crossfire, but who else is so much bigger in number?

Looking at the top few PDL clubs in points, WPFC has only one team per age at the older age groups, and no points for their boys teams at older age groups because of Academy.  At U15, there is 1 boys team and 2 girls teams; U14, 2 boys teams and two girls teams, etc.

At ECFC, there are 2 teams at each age group, again with some older ages having only 1 team.

At EFC there are 2 teams at the PDL age groups, but at the older boys only 1 team at some age groups.

Same is true for Reign and Dos . . . 2 teams at the age groups, but at the older ages, generally one team.

The younger age groups don't count towards points, correct (such as U11 where there might be several teams).

So how does this make EFC or ECFC a mega club in terms of size?  Doesn't GRFC have 2 teams at the PDL age groups? does that make them a mega club or a small club?

As for 2Cents point about Association size, I can see something here. There are areas that can only field so many top teams and they deserve a fair shake, but then, should we get special bonuses at Regionals because So Cal has a larger population?  

BTW, I don't disagree that the point system is flawed, but I'm not sure it's flawed because of size bias.  I see a lot more issues in it than this.  As EW says, the system is set up to achieve what it's achieving.

WPFC, ECFC and EFC represent associations that have player pools 5 times the size of smaller clubs this gives them a huge advantage in forming quality teams, yes, they are mega clubs. Smaller clubs seem to think that by making silver teams and rec teams their B and C teams are somehow going to help them get more points.

The smaller clubs will never be able to compete with this point system. This is their measurement of success and it is skewed in favor of the large clubs.

If you have a contest between two individuals, you give one of them a million dollars and the other one hundred thousand, the goal is to make as much money as you can in three months, who do think will win?

[2 CENTS]

i think the point system makes perfect sense for what they are trying to do. It goes directly side by side with what they have stated on their website, and when it comes to criterea that it takes to be part of the PDL its not like they have hiddin all of this, I think that if someone though disagrees with their views on how they want to approach it then they say they are being dishonest or shady. On their website they state this:

"The PDL seeks to play "like vs. like" teams in competitive leagues among clubs that consistently demonstrate the ability to develop Championship Cup caliber teams, ODP players, and a commitment to appropriate developmental philosophies for youth."

thats pertty straight forward and makes sense with how they are doing the point system. you get more points if your in the championship cup, So obviously it rewards the clubs that have more teams, since more of their teams can enter the championship cups. It also states that it pushes for clubs to send players through the ODP system And once again that rewards the bigger clubs which have more players to send to the ODP system.

Lets forget about the PDL clubs for a minute, If someone were to ask you if you were able to create your own development program for a premier club, how would you structure it? Assume that player numbers weren't an issue, and you could have as many coaches as you wanted. Assume money wasn't an issue either. I know if you gave me those guidlines I would start by saying i would want multiple teams at every age group so i could use a semi squad system, and have a different team level for all my players. Also as players get older a lot of them in high school decide to stop playing. Well I know when that happens its nice to have a B and C team to pull players from. So if you asked me I would want a minumum of 2 teams at every age group fo each gender. I think most people would agree that would be ideal. So if the PDL is supposed to support clubs that are putting players in the best position to develop and grow for the future, and if your idea situation if you were a coaching director or ran your on club was anything like mine, then wouldn't you reward the clubs that are already doing that?

BK,
Do you think it is a coincidence that the largest clubs are all on top?

You make this statement "So obviously it rewards the clubs that have more teams" NO, it rewards the clubs that represent the associations with the largest player pools.

It is measuring success by who is the largest not by who has the best program for kids.

The largest clubs will always remain on top even if they are underperforming, the small clubs will always struggle to get points and cp's will think their programs are failing and run off to the larger clubs, soon we will have teams grandfathered all over the place, yes this make perfect sense.

[Back In BLACK]

WPFC, ECFC and EFC represent associations that have player pools 5 times the size of smaller clubs this gives them a huge advantage in forming quality teams,

If you look at where the players come from that play for these "mega" or "large" clubs you will notice that many of the players come from the heart of the "smaller clubs" neighborhood.  While I agree that the big clubs have a larger area to draw from it is only because they have successfully pulled players away from the smaller clubs player base. The larger clubs have obviously done something right to get players to leave their neighborhood club and travel down the road to the larger club or the smaller clubs are doing something wrong in not keeping their player base strong.

[Black Knight]

i think the point system makes perfect sense for what they are trying to do. It goes directly side by side with what they have stated on their website, and when it comes to criterea that it takes to be part of the PDL its not like they have hiddin all of this, I think that if someone though disagrees with their views on how they want to approach it then they say they are being dishonest or shady. On their website they state this:

"The PDL seeks to play "like vs. like" teams in competitive leagues among clubs that consistently demonstrate the ability to develop Championship Cup caliber teams, ODP players, and a commitment to appropriate developmental philosophies for youth."

thats pertty straight forward and makes sense with how they are doing the point system. you get more points if your in the championship cup, So obviously it rewards the clubs that have more teams, since more of their teams can enter the championship cups. It also states that it pushes for clubs to send players through the ODP system And once again that rewards the bigger clubs which have more players to send to the ODP system.

Lets forget about the PDL clubs for a minute, If someone were to ask you if you were able to create your own development program for a premier club, how would you structure it? Assume that player numbers weren't an issue, and you could have as many coaches as you wanted. Assume money wasn't an issue either. I know if you gave me those guidlines I would start by saying i would want multiple teams at every age group so i could use a semi squad system, and have a different team level for all my players. Also as players get older a lot of them in high school decide to stop playing. Well I know when that happens its nice to have a B and C team to pull players from. So if you asked me I would want a minumum of 2 teams at every age group fo each gender. I think most people would agree that would be ideal. So if the PDL is supposed to support clubs that are putting players in the best position to develop and grow for the future, and if your idea situation if you were a coaching director or ran your on club was anything like mine, then wouldn't you reward the clubs that are already doing that?

BK,
Do you think it is a coincidence that the largest clubs are all on top?

You make this statement "So obviously it rewards the clubs that have more teams" NO, it rewards the clubs that represent the associations with the largest player pools.

It is measuring success by who is the largest not by who has the best program for kids.

The largest clubs will always remain on top even if they are underperforming, the small clubs will always struggle to get points and cp's will think their programs are failing and run off to the larger clubs, soon we will have teams grandfathered all over the place, yes this make perfect sense.

See thats the thing, everyones so ready to jump on crossfire and WPFC, and the other clubs that draw from large numbers, but they are the two clubs that are starting to compete at the national level. Yes they have the largest player pools,but maybe they have  the best program for the kids too? what if they do? You can have all the player pool in the world but if you don't run things correctly your club will fall apart. Down in cowtown we arleady saw that once. About 10 years ago timbers was the only premier club in vancouver. So it had the entire vancouver player pool. however there were mistakes going on, it was being ran poorly, so what happened another premier program developed, FCV. All of a sudden timbers shrank incredibly. Then people were still unhappy so FCSC was born. Now all of a sudden 3 premier clubs were around becaue the previous ones weren't being ran well. Then the board and DOC and other things changed at the timbers and they doubled the amount of teams they had in the last 5 years. So no matter how good your player pool is that means nothing if your program is a mess. I respect Crossfire and WPFC for what they have done. Yes i know a lot of it is the numbers they draw from but if they weren't organized and had a good structure it would fall apart for them.

[Back In BLACK]

Great point BK.

[EWSoccer64]

<<<<See thats the thing, everyones so ready to jump on crossfire and WPFC, and the other clubs that draw from large numbers, but they are the two clubs that are starting to compete at the national level. Yes they have the largest player pools,but maybe they have the best program for the kids too? what if they do? You can have all the player pool in the world but if you don't run things correctly your club will fall apart. Down in cowtown we arleady saw that once. About 10 years ago timbers was the only premier club in vancouver. So it had the entire vancouver player pool. however there were mistakes going on, it was being ran poorly, so what happened another premier program developed, FCV. All of a sudden timbers shrank incredibly. Then people were still unhappy so FCSC was born. Now all of a sudden 3 premier clubs were around becaue the previous ones weren't being ran well. Then the board and DOC and other things changed at the timbers and they doubled the amount of teams they had in the last 5 years. So no matter how good your player pool is that means nothing if your program is a mess. I respect Crossfire and WPFC for what they have done. Yes i know a lot of it is the numbers they draw from but if they weren't organized and had a good structure it would fall apart for them. <<<<

Let me respond to this and a couple of other points that BK made earlier.

ODP - The big clubs have a stranglehold on ODP.   ODP is used as a recruiting tool to entice the top  players from smaller clubs to the bigger clubs.  This is a fact, and has been debated extensively on other threads.   So it makes perfect sense for the mega clubs to tout ODP as part of the PDL mission, while doing their best to monopolize ODP.   Including it in the PDL mission statement is either advertising for the big clubs or taunting to those who understand the "system".

It would probably be more accurate to say that Crossfire WERE starting to compete nationally, rather than ARE.

And I do like the points BK made about Vancouver.  It seems a good arguement in favor of more clubs, not less.

And to address the issue of why so many clubs want to be part of the PDL?  Because top tier play (in Washington youth soccer) is being played there, because of the clubs and teams that previously committed.  To not be part of it is to be excluded from top tier league play, at this point.

[FanInRed]

Quality of club management and player experience does make a difference, but the Quantity of players in the Association probably has just as much if not more of an influence.  Yes there are statistical outliers like Crush who have fielded a few strong teams without benefit of a large captive hinterland of player resources, but the main reason the "Big Clubs" are successful, especially at the early ages, is that they draw from literally thousands more young players.  Then by the time their teams are at U-14 or U-15, their history of success tends to draw more top players from the surrounding communities as well.  The Big Clubs know it's important to have winning teams at U-11, U-12, U-13 - development is nice but a winning record gets you the pick of selections as players come from all over to try out for the champions.

Smaller clubs will continue to play along and try to "go PDL" - it's the only way to get top competition right now, unless you want to spend your time traveling all over the West playing in tournaments (a la Crush).  And many smaller clubs will end up like Marauders, getting kicked to the curb along the way.  The wave of mergers will probably continue, of course.  Look at it demographically - for instance, the only way that the communities between Bellevue and Puyallup will be able to compete effectively will be to merge - you may see Renton, Kent, Maple Valley, Auburn, Sumner, all get together... Otherwise we will continue to see good little clubs like Synergy or MRFC struggle to compete and always be just average.

The old Patriots and Thunderbirds clubs had a good history of local success - not spectacular but they were a credit to the Renton community.  Will the new GRFC, now a much more slick and professional club with high ambitions, be able to compete with the big boys?  Who knows - what we can see for sure is that it is no longer the local-friendly organization it used to be.  Many players have dropped from the rolls to switch to other sports or play on local select teams.  Is it better?  Well it's certainly quite different.

It's just too bad that this huge, uncontrollable experiment in youth soccer organization is happening to our children.

[Pops]

Too funny - a week or so ago, GRFC was just a Premier club built to serve a need in GRJSA. Everyone thought "cool, a young club, lots of fun, nice parents, good volunteers." They liked the DOC and the continued growth of the coaching staff. Sure, like anything new there were some growing pains...but nothing too dramatic. If there was one challenge, it was that the club's stronger teams were excluded from the PDL, meaning limited exposure to top competition once league started. Let's be clear - for GRFC, PDL membership is about getting the right level of competition for the players.

Now, suddenly we've sold out to the dark side, become slick and professional, and somehow become blind and stupid to the mysterious plots of the large PDL masters.

Give me a break. Our kids deserve to play at an appropriate level of competition. The best way to get that access, and have any influence in the direction of premier soccer is to be part of the PDL. We're still a community-based, volunteer-led club. We still have a significant number of volunteer coaches and assistants - but also some excellent paid coaches and trainers. We're still a very affordable program, working to stay in tune with our community.

But hey - thanks for you concerns

[FanInRed]

Too funny - a week or so ago, GRFC was just a Premier club built to serve a need in GRJSA. Everyone thought "cool, a young club, lots of fun, nice parents, good volunteers." They liked the DOC and the continued growth of the coaching staff. Sure, like anything new there were some growing pains...but nothing too dramatic. If there was one challenge, it was that the club's stronger teams were excluded from the PDL, meaning limited exposure to top competition once league started. Let's be clear - for GRFC, PDL membership is about getting the right level of competition for the players.

Now, suddenly we've sold out to the dark side, become slick and professional, and somehow become blind and stupid to the mysterious plots of the large PDL masters.

Give me a break. Our kids deserve to play at an appropriate level of competition. The best way to get that access, and have any influence in the direction of premier soccer is to be part of the PDL. We're still a community-based, volunteer-led club. We still have a significant number of volunteer coaches and assistants - but also some excellent paid coaches and trainers. We're still a very affordable program, working to stay in tune with our community.

But hey - thanks for you concerns

Well, it's good to know you're feeling happy about the move... and well done to GRFC for making it into the PDL, if that was the plan all along...  I just hope the DoC and board and parents spent enough time understanding what it means to be one of the smaller clubs within the PDL...  please be sure to check with Leighton on how often the PDL committee asks for his vote and opinion.

And by the way, about being very affordable, the cost of playing in the 94 Boys "A" team this year was shown as $2300, and the cost of playing in the "B" team was $1800.  That was in the GRFC tryouts flier shown to me by a Renton CP who took his son out from the previous year's GRFC team and went to SCORE instead. That was club fees and didn't include travel, etc. 100% of the reason that family pulled their kid was the money.  He also told me that their GK left to play baseball 'cos they couldn't afford it...  

Maybe $2300 is affordable for a lot of folks, but considering the Renton/Highlands/Tukwila communities served by the Patriots and Thunderbirds in the past, it's a bit steep.

[Futsal]

For Example:

Take the Total Association count      

CLUB A 7907   
CLUB B 12499
CLUB C 1386   
CLUB D 2156   
      
TOTAL   23948   

Calculate their % of the total

CLUB A 7907   33.02%
CLUB B 12499         52.19%
CLUB C 1386     5.79%
CLUB D 2156     9.00%      

figure out the total number of points available to earn      
Qrts      
Semis      
Finals      

Say it is 1000

CLUB A should get at least 33% or 330      
CLUB B should get at least 52% or 521      
CLUB C should get at least 06% or 58      
CLUB D should get at least 09% or 90

If they are not getting their share, they are underperforming.

One of the PDL requirements is working on player development with their Association.

How about adjusting the PDL points based on percent of Association players.

Example ...

Club A earns 1000 PDL points
Pct of Players from their Association 66%
Club A Earned PDL Poihnts 660 points

If the player development program they are doing with the Association is good ... their Percent of local players should go up and also their PDL points.

If they are however importing a high percent of players going through someone elses development program ... it will affect them negatively.

[Pops]

Too funny - a week or so ago, GRFC was just a Premier club built to serve a need in GRJSA. Everyone thought "cool, a young club, lots of fun, nice parents, good volunteers." They liked the DOC and the continued growth of the coaching staff. Sure, like anything new there were some growing pains...but nothing too dramatic. If there was one challenge, it was that the club's stronger teams were excluded from the PDL, meaning limited exposure to top competition once league started. Let's be clear - for GRFC, PDL membership is about getting the right level of competition for the players.

Now, suddenly we've sold out to the dark side, become slick and professional, and somehow become blind and stupid to the mysterious plots of the large PDL masters.

Give me a break. Our kids deserve to play at an appropriate level of competition. The best way to get that access, and have any influence in the direction of premier soccer is to be part of the PDL. We're still a community-based, volunteer-led club. We still have a significant number of volunteer coaches and assistants - but also some excellent paid coaches and trainers. We're still a very affordable program, working to stay in tune with our community.

But hey - thanks for you concerns

Well, it's good to know you're feeling happy about the move... and well done to GRFC for making it into the PDL, if that was the plan all along...  I just hope the DoC and board and parents spent enough time understanding what it means to be one of the smaller clubs within the PDL...  please be sure to check with Leighton on how often the PDL committee asks for his vote and opinion.

And by the way, about being very affordable, the cost of playing in the 94 Boys "A" team this year was shown as $2300, and the cost of playing in the "B" team was $1800.  That was in the GRFC tryouts flier shown to me by a Renton CP who took his son out from the previous year's GRFC team and went to SCORE instead. That was club fees and didn't include travel, etc. 100% of the reason that family pulled their kid was the money.  He also told me that their GK left to play baseball 'cos they couldn't afford it...  

Maybe $2300 is affordable for a lot of folks, but considering the Renton/Highlands/Tukwila communities served by the Patriots and Thunderbirds in the past, it's a bit steep.

We're going in realistic about the PDL - not blind.

Just one comment on affordability - the only thing not included in those fees is player/ family travel to tournaments. All other club/ team fees are there, including tournament fees. Unfortunately, the lack of community fields in the Renton area makes it more expensive than it needs to be, since we're heavily dependent on paid fields. It is reasonable for Premier soccer. I realize that doesn't make it cheap, but that's why the club has team AND individual fundraisers available, all of which goes to offset those fees.

[2 CENTS]

I just crack up at the shift in perception of GRFC the past month or so.  from a cute little club that's trying real hard,  to an evil big club that doesn't get it lol.   nothings changed , but apparently it has.

sqush, i'm feelin dirty again

Yes, welcome to the world of belonging to the PDL. You've now joined the gang of bullies  :mrgreen:

As much negative press goes towards the PDL and why anyone would want to belong to this organizition; why do any of the  "small" clubs want in???   :?  

Then you have to ask yourself if the PDL is so wrong then what does that say about your neighborhood club that tries to do everything they can to gain acceptance into the PDL?  Are all the clubs wanting in part of the problem?  If nobody wanted to join then how effective would the pdl be?  And if a neighborhood club preachers the importance of getting into the pdl to its members and doesn't gain entry then wouldn't you expect those parents listening to the PDL proganda to go elsewhere?

BB

I am having a hard time with this one, you seem to be blaming the neighborhood clubs and the neighborhood club preachers for the PDL.
Who are all of these neighborhood clubs trying to get in the PDL?

[Back In BLACK]

Not blaming just adding another piece of the puzzle.  

If you have smaller clubs making a claim to join the pdl and they don't get in where do you think some of those small club players are going to go once they realize their current club is unable to provide what they were led to believe?  IMHO, if I'm running a club (lord help us all) and I'm your local neighborhood club I would focus on the strengths and benefits of my club and not even think about and preach about getting into the pdl.

[PrideNJoy]

how do you offer what players and parents are looking for, the ones that leave, ...for the pdl pastures and top competition that's boasted?  are they not important community kids just as well?  they've populated teams outside their neighborhood for years and years since forever.  Isn't it nice having an option closer to home?  No?  sorry, guess not

[Black Knight]

Of course its hard to keep kids at the smaller local clubs. Its a lot like college basketball. If you have two leagues like Pac 10 and WCC. In pac 10 you have all fairly strong teams, and in the WCC you have gonzaga which has dominated that league so of course they can compete with the Pac 10 teams but not many of the others can. So if you had a player choosing which league to play for, which one would hey choose?  pretty easy answer for the most part.

[yote19]

That is bs--they have been migrating to the top teams way before they were run by the alphabet group (DOC, PDL).  There is a natural migration of talent to a localized team.  And if you look back at the history, it has been to the same teams over the years, now you just pay more.