The Pulse of Youth Soccer in Washington State

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 91 
 on: June 26, 2018, 11:58:34 AM 
Started by Dmacy - Last post by merenguemom
Quote
Article is a perfect illustration of soccer player stupidity

Right....  Jorge Valdano played for Argentinian national team for 10 years and won a world cup.  Played professionally at Newells and Real Madrid AND managed Real Madrid.  Wrote two books and numerous articles on football.  Is known as "The Philosopher of Football." 

If you have no respect for HIS viewpoint I am not sure why anyone on this board should respect yours.  You have been throwing the word "stupid" around a lot lately.  Feel free to give us a summary of your experience in the sport to justify your opinions.

 92 
 on: June 26, 2018, 08:15:25 AM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by tripleplay
...Since teams of other countries are generally taller than the US,  it shows that they value size more than we do.

That's ONE way to look at the data. But height not withstanding, those nations have more top-drawer soccer players than the US, and ultimately national teams have to have great soccer players to win World Cups. :angel:
True. But the point is that there is 0 objective evidence that the US tries to win with size instead of other factors. Size is a part of being “great”. Am watching Denmark, aka brutal giants packing the box. Not saying they lack skill, but that’s not why they stand out. American soccer fans have trouble with the reality of soccer, preferring to believe in some romanticized fantasy.

 93 
 on: June 26, 2018, 08:06:17 AM 
Started by Dmacy - Last post by tripleplay
Interesting analysis of the Argentine debacle that may be applicable to the US

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/25/argentina-what-is-wrong-lionel-messi-football
Article is a perfect illustration of soccer player stupidity. One loss and one tie is not a “debacle”. It’s a disappointing result for fans who likely have grossly inflated expectations. Sheesh.

 94 
 on: June 26, 2018, 08:03:19 AM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by tripleplay
So if the US had the tallest WC team in 2014, why didn’t they do better (if height is so important)?
You misread. The US was an inch shorter  in the last cycle. To be honest, too much should not be read into these stats. They seem to be less complete, especially for 2014.

However the basic story is that US teams are short to mid pack, which refutes the notion that Americans care especially about size. We make do with shorter players than other soccer powers. Exactly why is hard to tell with the existing data. But the importance of size in soccer cannot be denied by anyone who looks at the objective evidence. Peru is the perfect example of that. Their team doesnt just have above-average height (as all teams do) - they have players who are way, way above average height. It stems from the fundamental characteristics of the sport.

 95 
 on: June 26, 2018, 07:41:03 AM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by heplaysidrive
“The average height of the US team in the prior WC cycle was 5-11, larger than no country. And the 5-9.5 figure I believe includes all ages. It's 5-10 for men of soccer age.”

So if the US had the tallest WC team in 2014, why didn’t they do better (if height is so important)? Additionally, if the height of “men of soccer age” is higher in the U.S. than that of the population in general, then it must be so in other countries as well, which means that the U.S. still chooses taller men to its WC team than the tallest countries, relative to the average height of men in those countries.

 96 
 on: June 26, 2018, 06:53:37 AM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by skagitcoach
...Since teams of other countries are generally taller than the US,  it shows that they value size more than we do.

That's ONE way to look at the data. But height not withstanding, those nations have more top-drawer soccer players than the US, and ultimately national teams have to have great soccer players to win World Cups. :angel:

 97 
 on: June 26, 2018, 01:16:43 AM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by tripleplay
The average American male is 5’9.5, and the average MNT player is 6’0.
The average Danish man is 6’0, and the average Danish World Cup player is 6’1.
The average Serbian man is 5’11.5, and the average Serbian World Cup player is 6’1.

In other words, American MNT players are taller compared to the country’s average male height than the Danish and Serbian World Cup players are compared to their countries’ average male heights.

In addition, for perspective, the only countries in the world with taller men than Denmark and Serbia are;
Bosnia and Herzegovina (6’0.5)
Netherlands (6’0.5)
Montenegro (6’0)
Norway (5’11.75)
(American men rank 37th in the world in height.)
The average height of the US team in the prior WC cycle was 5-11, larger than no country. And the 5-9.5 figure I believe includes all ages. It's 5-10 for men of soccer age.

But the basic fact is that all the countries on the list choose players well above the national average height.  The shorter countries, such as Peru (5-4) show the biggest differences, which suggests the importance of size to success, and would also account for why the shorter US would have to select somewhat relatively larger players in an attempt to be competitive. Bottom line is that US teams aren't big. (And by observation, they are also not fast, but don't have data to prove) Of course, the US also loses size and speed (not to mention motor skills) to our major sports which are minor or non-existent in other countries.

But the big and fast myth lingers.

 98 
 on: June 25, 2018, 11:26:33 PM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by heplaysidrive
The average American male is 5’9.5, and the average MNT player is 6’0.
The average Danish man is 6’0, and the average Danish World Cup player is 6’1.
The average Serbian man is 5’11.5, and the average Serbian World Cup player is 6’1.

In other words, American MNT players are taller compared to the country’s average male height than the Danish and Serbian World Cup players are compared to their countries’ average male heights.

In addition, for perspective, the only countries in the world with taller men than Denmark and Serbia are;
Bosnia and Herzegovina (6’0.5)
Netherlands (6’0.5)
Montenegro (6’0)
Norway (5’11.75)
(American men rank 37th in the world in height.)










 99 
 on: June 25, 2018, 10:05:52 PM 
Started by tripleplay - Last post by tripleplay
Quote
US soccer is broken because youth soccer has a win-at-all-cost philosophy that favors size over skill

To effectively counter this claim, you need to provide the average heights of current national team players when they were 13-14 years old.  Final adult size has nothing to do with this argument. 

An interesting research project is to look at rosters of a country's U17 teams compared to eventual national team players.   Even Spain has many players on their national team that did not play for their youth teams.
I disagree. Since teams of other countries are generally taller than the US,  it shows that they value size more than we do. Anecdotally, American youth teams aren't bigger than European youth teams, either. If we were incorrectly pushing size at young ages, that would eventually show up on the rosters of the top team. It didn't.

The unknown variable in the analysis is that I didn't account for the height of the general population for each country. Our teams our shorter than European teams, but that may just be that we also aren't as genetically European as they are. Another example is that Peru has one of the shortest teams in the WC (5-10) but my guess is that a more sophisticated analysis would show that they value height MORE than the other teams, simply because the average height in the country is so much lower.

I don't know where the myth than Americans only care about speed and size, and other countries don't care at all about them came from. But the low-soccer-IQ gang clings to it with an almost religious conviction for some unknown reason. 

Of course, the fact that FC Barcelona's highest priority when they got a hold of Messi was to get him on human growth hormones, says it all. His win-at-all-cost club play in Argentina gave him this amazing skill set, but the club understood that to compete at the pro level, he just needed more mass. 

 100 
 on: June 25, 2018, 05:22:31 PM 
Started by Dmacy - Last post by merenguemom
Interesting analysis of the Argentine debacle that may be applicable to the US

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/25/argentina-what-is-wrong-lionel-messi-football


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