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Author Topic: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available  (Read 17460 times)

English1

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #150 on: May 11, 2017, 12:48:27 AM »

The athorns are definitely not the 4th strongest team in the area.  I would argue that the top half of the RCL are better.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #151 on: May 11, 2017, 07:48:32 AM »

Southbound, just curious to see what information you might have to support your opinion.....
Reign lost some of their best players to Crossfire DA and ECNL.
Many players did not accept the Reign letters promising the player to be on a DA team without tryouts.
The Reign ECNL standings leave a lot to be desired.
Utah has such a small player pool and will now battle for players against the Avalanche???  Usually last in the conference.
Most of the DeAnza players left for the Earthquakes???  Very exaggerated claim.  Not even close to the truth.
I didn't see you mention anything about the Thorns down south.  They are arguably the 4th best Club in the area.  They are not getting as many players switching from the ECNL teams as they had hoped.
Crossfire had a huge turnout.  Agreed that they should be competitive in all of the ECNL groups.  However, their DA teams will have a hard time finding competition in the NW DA League.

Would be curious where you are getting your info. Here's what I have:

-- De Anza is no longer in ecnl, and most
of the players seem to be going to earthquakes (with deza) or cal thorns
-- in Utah, avalanche are only competitive from time to time because a lot of good players stay at la roca (which is routinely competitive in region iv).
-- the oldest reign age groups aren't very strong this year, and no one expected them to be as kids didn't want to leave where they were for the last year of high school. The 00 and 01 teams were basically brand new teams and took some time to gel, but have had gone results of late. 02 and 03 are positioned to qualify for champions league and on par with xf. Not bad at all for the first year of the program, and it will only get stronger as kids age in. SU was previously losing 5-8 top kids to XF each year, and Eastside lost their share too; that is no longer happening.
-- xf lost a few da level players to reign, and reign lost a few to xf. Some kids who wanted to play hs and had been for a while chose xf ecnl. There was not any material attrition from reign to xf (or vice versa) in any DA age group, and those teams will be strong (although the younger age groups will be stronger than the oldest age group)
-- the Portland market is very much watered down with three
-- both ecnl and GDA are on solid footing for the next few years, which will unnecessarily complicate things for everyone who wants to play at that level. It is unfortunate that us soccer put so much energy into fixing a problem that barely existed and could have been fixed in a collaborative way and that ecnl acted like an old boys network for so long to keep a lot
of Clubs that could compete out.
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soccerfan22

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #152 on: May 11, 2017, 08:43:19 AM »

Quote
-- De Anza is no longer in ecnl, and most
of the players seem to be going to earthquakes (with deza) or cal thorns


Soundbound - DeAnza is no longer in ECNL? I thought they just opted out of DA to focus on ECNL which is what their membership wanted?
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Unlucky1

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #153 on: May 11, 2017, 09:31:51 AM »

Southbound - My point on Utah is they are not going to be strong. 
DeAnza is in the ECNL.
Crossfire had much higher numbers at tryouts than Reign and WPFC.  My dollars are on Crossfire to sweep the league
Champions League is the top 30 something teams. Look at the Showcase cup that Reign has teams in. 00 and 01 teams are very average.
Crossfire has been ranked in the top 10 as an entire Club in the ECNL since inception.
Crossfire had a huge turnout because they have both DA and ECNL.  If I were a player I would choose Crossfire to tryout at.  If I don't make DA then I have a good chance to make ECNL.
Agreed that the market is watered down and a shame that US Soccer could not work with the ECNL.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #154 on: May 11, 2017, 09:38:21 AM »

Quote
-- De Anza is no longer in ecnl, and most
of the players seem to be going to earthquakes (with deza) or cal thorns


Soundbound - DeAnza is no longer in ECNL? I thought they just opted out of DA to focus on ECNL which is what their membership wanted?

That was last month's news. This month they are out folllwing deza departure to quakes/baicher teaming up with thorns.

Here's the final ecnl map for the nw conf: http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017-18-girls-map-final-april28/
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tripleplay

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #155 on: May 11, 2017, 09:50:43 AM »

SU was previously losing 5-8 top kids to XF each year, and Eastside lost their share too; that is no longer happening.

SU joining ECNL gave kids a reason to stay, as well as slots to take in kids from EFC and other places. Now SU isn't ECNL and has fewer slots in the HS age groups.

EFC will still lose players. That some will be to "Reign" rather than Crossfire, SU and WPFC is a detail. EFC's niche for several years has been recruiting the best elite-league opt-outs and doing well in the RCL (4 of 8 champ cups this year e.g.). That may be more difficult going forward. I heard that many players from one of the winners (03) joined Reign DA, e.g.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #156 on: May 11, 2017, 09:56:34 AM »

Southbound - My point on Utah is they are not going to be strong. 
DeAnza is in the ECNL.
Crossfire had much higher numbers at tryouts than Reign and WPFC.  My dollars are on Crossfire to sweep the league
Champions League is the top 30 something teams. Look at the Showcase cup that Reign has teams in. 00 and 01 teams are very average.
Crossfire has been ranked in the top 10 as an entire Club in the ECNL since inception.
Crossfire had a huge turnout because they have both DA and ECNL.  If I were a player I would choose Crossfire to tryout at.  If I don't make DA then I have a good chance to make ECNL.
Agreed that the market is watered down and a shame that US Soccer could not work with the ECNL.

One more observation: in the older age groups from 01-98 Pac, Surf, Eastside and Rush were generally successful (with a few in each age group exceptions) in holding onto their best players when reign rolled in as a third elite program. Kids liked staying with their well-established teams, and some were far along or done with the college search process.

Will be interesting to see whether they still will be able to hold onto top kids in the coming years. I've heard of some movement from Pac and Surf in 05 and 04, for instance, and with ecnl (and next year likely da) going to u13 some kids will move earlier, and the best players from the younger Eastside teams now will be placed in Reign Da. With another 2 teams per age group playing in elite leagues, RCL will be even more watered down than it is. Definitely will be a challenge for surf, Pac and Rush.
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tripleplay

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #157 on: May 11, 2017, 10:07:07 AM »

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.
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raddad

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #158 on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:58 AM »

The data isn't surprising if you remember that all xc su and wpfc ecnl teams do not play in champions cup. 

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.
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tripleplay

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #159 on: May 11, 2017, 10:35:26 AM »

The data isn't surprising if you remember that all xc su and wpfc ecnl teams do not play in champions cup. 

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.
True, but not all ages have ECNL. The results suggest that the bureaucratic theory that massive population (Seattle and WPFC by a massive amount) plus elite league affiliation = good club isn't the full story.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #160 on: May 11, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »

The data isn't surprising if you remember that all xc su and wpfc ecnl teams do not play in champions cup. 

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.
True, but not all ages have ECNL. The results suggest that the bureaucratic theory that massive population (Seattle and WPFC by a massive amount) plus elite league affiliation = good club isn't the full story.

Nor is one year's State Cup results. Even this year, SU and WP were finalists in the top cup, winning one each, at 06 and 07. SU was a semi finalist at 04. In 03, the youngest ecnl age this year, what was formerly their B team was a semi finalist. Both clubs will be more than fine.
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English1

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #161 on: May 11, 2017, 10:52:36 AM »

The data isn't surprising if you remember that all xc su and wpfc ecnl teams do not play in champions cup. 

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.


True, but not all ages have ECNL. The results suggest that the bureaucratic theory that massive population (Seattle and WPFC by a massive amount) plus elite league affiliation = good club isn't the full story.
They have five teams in the ECNL...the best players are on those teams, not playing in state cup
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raddad

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #162 on: May 11, 2017, 11:31:12 AM »

they don't suggest anything like that at all. top age group teams WPFC, XF, SU competed only in the girls U12 and U13 champions cups. even if you somehow consider that those four data points are significant, XF won one of those and was the finalist in the other. 

http://wys-2017championships.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/accepted_list.asp?sessionguid=&tournamentguid=81E285D9-217A-4474-96FD-4BAE9947A0DC&show=girls

The data isn't surprising if you remember that all xc su and wpfc ecnl teams do not play in champions cup. 

It is interesting to look at the 16 Winners and Finalists in the girls Champ Cup. EFC 4, PAC, Spokane, Crossfire 3, Surf 2, Timbers 1.  Most surprisingly Seattle United and WPFC 0.
True, but not all ages have ECNL. The results suggest that the bureaucratic theory that massive population (Seattle and WPFC by a massive amount) plus elite league affiliation = good club isn't the full story.
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tripleplay

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #163 on: May 11, 2017, 11:37:56 AM »

they don't suggest anything like that at all. top age group teams WPFC, XC, SU competed only in the girls U12 and U13 champions cups. even if you somehow consider that those four data points are significant, XC won one of those and was the finalist in the other. 

Point being that the other "elite" clubs weren't. Though I guess if we follow Soundbound's reasoning and go down to 7v7 U9.5 (comparing to the traditional system) things look better. LOL.

Ultimately I predict that Spokane will win every state cup. They are furthest removed from the elite league nonsense in the Sound and everything east of the cascades will eventually be boiled down to a single team.
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Unlucky1

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #164 on: May 11, 2017, 02:25:28 PM »

Touche on the DeAnza!  Soccer landscape is like quicksand.....
My point being Crossfire is the class of the Elite Clubs in the state.  That club has the most money, resources and business plan of all the clubs.
A soccer version of the New England Patriots.  Players want to play for that organization.  Oh and it's free at the older age groups.

Reign, WP and EFC will have a good age group here and there but will always be following in their foot steps.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #165 on: May 11, 2017, 03:10:34 PM »

Touche on the DeAnza!  Soccer landscape is like quicksand.....
My point being Crossfire is the class of the Elite Clubs in the state.  That club has the most money, resources and business plan of all the clubs.
A soccer version of the New England Patriots.  Players want to play for that organization.  Oh and it's free at the older age groups.

Reign, WP and EFC will have a good age group here and there but will always be following in their foot steps.

Crossfire no doubt has had a lot of success and a lot of good players (including seattle or efc kids who would likely end up on reign in the future), and I'm sure they will continue to have lots of success in GDA (but likely not ecnl) in the future (cash cow tournaments and c-e teams supporting elite teams and having coaches on 3-4 teams to control expensss is a pretty good business model). From what I've heard, there are strongly polarized views on their GDA coaches, with both strong fans and strong detractors. For whatever reason, despite xf going to a free GDA, very few of the top Reign players had any interest in the competition; seemed to be the same going the other way. I think the Reign 03's and 04's will be at least on par with xf, and 01/02 will be competitive. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over time.
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PossessionBall

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #166 on: May 11, 2017, 05:32:04 PM »

Crossfire has G teams at the U13 and U12 age groups for boys this year... It should be a crime to call them "premier" level teams... :-\
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raddad

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #167 on: May 12, 2017, 09:13:28 AM »

Well I think it makes perfect sense... Why trade a guaranteed GDA spot for a chance at an equivalent spot across the lake?

The big draw for XF over SU and why you saw the huge tryout numbers for the 00 01 02 is with the former SU B teamers, marginal A's and top C's. New B team at XF is ECNL which is a big step up from the RCL. And if you don't make it you still play in RCL D1 anyway. The risk/reward was a no brainer.

For whatever reason, despite xf going to a free GDA, very few of the top Reign players had any interest in the competition; seemed to be the same going the other way. I think the Reign 03's and 04's will be at least on par with xf, and 01/02 will be competitive. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over time.
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Soundbound

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #168 on: May 12, 2017, 12:23:30 PM »

What were the huge numbers XF had in 01/02? There were about 100 from that age group for Reign, and most of the EFC red and SU Copa kids seemed to be there, although that tryout was DA only; were there more kids from that age group at the XF ECNL DA/ECNL tryout? Whether kids who don't make DA stick with the Reign Academy 2 (formerly Copa and Red) teams will depend on what is made of the DA2 training, showcase and competition opportunities over time, which seems to be a work in progress.

Well I think it makes perfect sense... Why trade a guaranteed GDA spot for a chance at an equivalent spot across the lake?

The big draw for XF over SU and why you saw the huge tryout numbers for the 00 01 02 is with the former SU B teamers, marginal A's and top C's. New B team at XF is ECNL which is a big step up from the RCL. And if you don't make it you still play in RCL D1 anyway. The risk/reward was a no brainer.

For whatever reason, despite xf going to a free GDA, very few of the top Reign players had any interest in the competition; seemed to be the same going the other way. I think the Reign 03's and 04's will be at least on par with xf, and 01/02 will be competitive. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over time.
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tripleplay

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Re: US Soccer Girls DA - More info now available
« Reply #169 on: May 12, 2017, 08:26:38 PM »

I heard the numbers were similar, Reign moderately bigger, though I am not sure what it means anyway. By the time of the "tryouts", there were approximately 0 Reign slots open and 7 or so ECNL slots open each year. Those events are essentially PR.

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