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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2017, 12:58:43 PM »

TP, I am surprised that I or anyone else is bothering to address your latest gap in knowledge.  But here goes.  The prior poster is referencing a more recent change to the rules for the younger ages.  Under the traditional rule, a defending player kicks the ball, and NO player (offensive or defensive) may touch the ball before it leaves the penalty area (not the "goal box").  The new rule defines a line that is beyond the penalty area.  The defending player may pass the ball to another defending player behind this line.  The offensive player must stand behind the line until the ball is in play.  This encourages the team taking the kick to pass the ball to another defender (who can receive the ball without it being intercepted by an onrushing attacker) rather than just booting the ball up field.

See:  http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/assets/1/15/TheGoalkeeperAndLaw16.pdf
I know both the old and the new rule. I have seen the new rule implemented many times. But people were mischaracterizing the situation under the old rule. I was correcting that. No one can play the ball when it is in the penalty box, so any close shots on goal aren't the result of the interception. They are the result of winning the ball outside the box, getting past possibly several defenders to bring the ball close to goal, and then shooting.

And if you had any experience with youth soccer you would know that intercepting goal kicks isn't just an issue faced by the very young. It happens at every level. Do you think the new rule should be applied at every level of the sport, all the way up to the EPL and the Men's WC?
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silverdad

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2017, 01:22:17 PM »

Actually, TP, you weren't showing awareness of the new rule.  You are just covering the tracks of your incompetence.

Your incompetence continues with your latest comments.  The point of the rule isn't necessarily to prevent goals.  It is to encourage players from a very young age to learn to pass out of the back, and to balance out the risk-reward of doing so.  Contrary to your statement, at the youngest levels it is quite common for a pass to be intercepted by an onrushing attacker at the edge of the penalty area and launch a scoring shot without having to beat "several defenders".  That happens less at the older levels because the field is more spread out, the players are more experienced, and the players are physically developed enough to kick the ball much farther.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2017, 03:57:11 PM »

British players will make more playing in the EPL than playing elsewhere, so why would they face bias and prejudice to make less money?

A similar logic is starting to apply to Americans and the MLS. Top players can make a good living here, so why go somewhere that the odds are stacked against you?

To some degree it is true - only Brits would want to play in England all things being equal.  Players have favorite teams growing up.  Most of those teams are going to be close to home.  But with that you'd have to explain why Italians play outside of Italy, why Spanish players play outside of Spain, French players France etc.  There is no denying that there is a strange lack of British players outside of England.  The easiest solution is that British players aren't that much in demand because they aren't all that exceptional. 

For sure the idiotic way that the British play football has something to do with it - the obtuse 'hoof the ball and see what happens' approach that still dominates.  Only a loser would want to play football that way.  Also lest we leave it out, the weather sucks, no beaches, ugly people etc.  Even when Serie A was the best league in the world Italians were playing outside of Italy.  The big difference of course is that the EPL is not the best league in the world and the best players by and large want to play in the best leagues and for the best teams.  There isn't a British team in the top 8 teams in the world (Leicester in the Champions League is a fluke) and what's more the best players in the EPL are certainly not British.  Make a list of the top players in the EPL what's the first Brit that comes up on that list?  And when does he come up?  Top ten?  Top twenty? 

Getting back to the OP I congratulated the WYS for adopting the building from the back initiative.  I do think that things are improving here.  There is a greater emphasis on Futsal and creative play.  Let's hope it continues. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 04:26:37 PM by blacksheep »
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2017, 04:57:58 PM »

Actually, TP, you weren't showing awareness of the new rule.  You are just covering the tracks of your incompetence.

Your incompetence continues with your latest comments.  The point of the rule isn't necessarily to prevent goals.  It is to encourage players from a very young age to learn to pass out of the back, and to balance out the risk-reward of doing so.  Contrary to your statement, at the youngest levels it is quite common for a pass to be intercepted by an onrushing attacker at the edge of the penalty area and launch a scoring shot without having to beat "several defenders".  That happens less at the older levels because the field is more spread out, the players are more experienced, and the players are physically developed enough to kick the ball much farther.
The team taking the goal kick is free to place defenders in the box, in which case the player intercepting the goal kick would have to get past them.

I don't have a problem with the rule for very young rec players. The reason is that rec has such a disparity of abilities that it can make sense to handicap the stronger players in order to give some semblance of fair play. But consider a select team. The players are relatively equal. Player A feels that he can gain an advantage by pouncing on the goal kick. But Player B, making the kick, has eyes and a brain. (Something that many posters in this thread lack) He sees what A is trying to do, and can figure out that kicking the ball to him might be dangerous. He has a problem to solve. He THINKS and decides not to kick the ball to him.

The end result is that we have players learning to see what is going on in the field, and to respond accordingly. Problem, solution. Players learn the importance of paying attention to what is happening on the field, that they can see problems, and that they can solve problems. You are upset because it doesn't look like the pros - it doesn't mimic your favorite TV soccer. But seeing the field and solving problems is the very essence of soccer. Overzealous daddies "protecting" their poor little players from the burden of playing soccer isn't doing them any favors.
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bubbasaurus

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 07:05:56 PM »

TP - some of the issues on goal kicks came about when we shrank the fields for the younger ages. At U-8 and U-9, the goal area was 2 yards and the penalty area was 6 yards. So, you have players standing 4 yards from the player taking the kicks. It was a little better at U-10 (10 yard penalty area), but not much. Watching an 8 year old having a goal kick blasted back at them and getting drilled in the face was a significant reason the build-out line was put in place. Having the build-out line encourages teams to try to play the ball out of the back, but that's the romantic version of this.

I agree with having it through U-10. Having it at U-11, which is being done by WYS and not US Youth Soccer, doesn't make sense to me.
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 07:35:14 PM »

TP - some of the issues on goal kicks came about when we shrank the fields for the younger ages. At U-8 and U-9, the goal area was 2 yards and the penalty area was 6 yards. So, you have players standing 4 yards from the player taking the kicks. It was a little better at U-10 (10 yard penalty area), but not much. Watching an 8 year old having a goal kick blasted back at them and getting drilled in the face was a significant reason the build-out line was put in place. Having the build-out line encourages teams to try to play the ball out of the back, but that's the romantic version of this.

I agree with having it through U-10. Having it at U-11, which is being done by WYS and not US Youth Soccer, doesn't make sense to me.
Fair enough.
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2017, 12:19:36 AM »

British players will make more playing in the EPL than playing elsewhere, so why would they face bias and prejudice to make less money?

A similar logic is starting to apply to Americans and the MLS. Top players can make a good living here, so why go somewhere that the odds are stacked against you?

To some degree it is true - only Brits would want to play in England all things being equal.  Players have favorite teams growing up.  Most of those teams are going to be close to home.  But with that you'd have to explain why Italians play outside of Italy, why Spanish players play outside of Spain, French players France etc.  There is no denying that there is a strange lack of British players outside of England.  The easiest solution is that British players aren't that much in demand because they aren't all that exceptional. 

For sure the idiotic way that the British play football has something to do with it - the obtuse 'hoof the ball and see what happens' approach that still dominates.  Only a loser would want to play football that way.  Also lest we leave it out, the weather sucks, no beaches, ugly people etc.  Even when Serie A was the best league in the world Italians were playing outside of Italy.  The big difference of course is that the EPL is not the best league in the world and the best players by and large want to play in the best leagues and for the best teams.  There isn't a British team in the top 8 teams in the world (Leicester in the Champions League is a fluke) and what's more the best players in the EPL are certainly not British.  Make a list of the top players in the EPL what's the first Brit that comes up on that list?  And when does he come up?  Top ten?  Top twenty? 

Getting back to the OP I congratulated the WYS for adopting the building from the back initiative.  I do think that things are improving here.  There is a greater emphasis on Futsal and creative play.  Let's hope it continues.
A truly bizarre rant. London is the world's most cosmopolitan city - a Mecca for Continentals and the rest of the world, creating conflicts that the less desirable Spain, Italy, Germany et al. don't have to worry about. England invented soccer, globalized it, and has the world's strongest soccer culture. The EPL is, by far, the highest paying soccer league in the world, and if you look beyond the top couple of teams, it is deeper than other leagues (possibly excepting Germany).

England's soccer problems are vaguely similar to those of the US. It's just not as single-mindedly focused as those other countries with less going for them.

I'm far from being an Anglophile but facts are facts.
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raddad

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2017, 07:52:08 AM »

you've got the wrong impression, they are playing in the epl, as they should. most players in national leagues are from the home nation.

NATIONALITIES IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE (2015)
213: England
6: Serbia
3: Bosnia
1: Canada
37: France
5: Australia
3: Colombia
1: Chile
35: Spain
5: Czech Republic
3: Costa Rica
1: Curacao
29: Ireland
5: Ecuador
3: Croatia
1: Egypt
23: Scotland
5: Ghana
3: DR Congo
1: Gambia
21: Netherlands
5: Ivory Coast
3: Slovakia
1: Hungary
18: Argentina
5: Nigeria
2: Benin
1: Iceland
18: Wales
5: Sweden
2: Cameroon
1: Kenya
17: Belgium
5: United States
2: Greece
1: Lithuania
12: Brazil
5: Uruguay
2: Japan
1: Mali
9: Germany
4: Austria
2: Mexico
1: Morocco
9: Italy
4: Denmark
2: Romania
1: New Zealand
8: Northern Ireland
4: Jamaican
2: South Africa
1: St. Lucia
7: Portugal
4: Norway
2: South Korea
1: Slovenia
7: Senegal
4: Poland
1: Bulgaria
1: Togo
6: Algeria
4: Switzerland
1: Burkino Faso
1: Zambia
 



Incidentally it just popped into my head just now.  Can anyone name one major British player who plays outside of England?  I was stumped.  And surely you can't say that this is because the EPL is so amazing.  There are Spanish players playing outside of Spain, Italian players playing outside of Italy, French players outside of France etc.  In fact Spanish, French, Italian and German players all play in Spain, France, Italy, Germany and even England now.  You couldn't say that about Germans a generation ago. There aren't even that many British players playing the EPL for God's sake.  WTF are all the British players playing?
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2017, 08:17:59 AM »

England has about 8 million soccer players out of a population of 58 million. The US has 24 million soccer players out of a population of 319 million. Therefore England's per capita participation is 80% higher than ours.
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skagitcoach

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2017, 09:22:50 PM »

Can anyone name one major British player who plays outside of England?
Real Madrid's Gareth Bale is from Wales. He's not English, but he is most certainly British.

A person from the United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland) and Northern Ireland is "British." Residents of the United Kingdom have British passports. Think of it this way: Citizens of England are British, but at the same time not all Brits are English. It's kind of like the distinction between being an American and a Washingtonian. Washington residents are Americans, but not all Americans are Washingtonians.





« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:08:01 PM by skagitcoach »
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2017, 06:58:51 AM »

Yes my sloppiness.  Nevertheless the point still stands.  First of all the number of English players in the EPL starling 11 is down to about 30%

www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/18/fewer-englishmen-than-ever-on-show-in-premier-league/amp/

So if there are 20 teams (x 11) 220 players 30% means there are less than 70 players who are in the starting 11 and less than 4 players per team.  I'd further imagine that there are more Englishmen on the teams on the bottom half of the table (because they are more crappy).  So this is hardly surprising:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/10/revealed-chelsea-among-worst-offenders-for-failing-to-field-english-players-this-season-6183904/

So so much for this stupid argument that English players play in the EPL because they like playing there.  Some might.  But for the 70 players that play there, they probably didn't get great offers from anywhere else because ... the reputation is that English soccer and English players suck. 
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2017, 08:49:21 AM »

Nice tap dance, Mr. Sheep, but wrong again. Almost any Brit (excepting the Bales) who can make an EPL team will earn a lot more money playing there than anywhere else. So why would they care about the lower paying leagues?

All the top Euro leagues have rules which incentivize or mandate that they take homegrown players. It's not an open market.

Of course, the EPL attracts lots of foreigners the same way that London has lots of immigrants. People follow opportunity.

That is why more Latin American players go to play in Europe than the reverse. Kentucky and Alabama are poor, corruptly-run red states that are economically 50 years behind the more advanced states. But their colleges play great basketball and football. They focus on doing well in those sports because that is what they have going for them.
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merenguemom

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2017, 09:07:14 AM »

Quote
Kentucky and Alabama are poor, corruptly-run red states that are economically 50 years behind the more advanced states. But their colleges play great basketball and football. They focus on doing well in those sports because that is what they have going for them.

Can you elaborate on this analogy?  The Kentucky bball team has 15 players on its roster.  3 are from Kentucky.  Another 4 are from NC, Texas and Ark.  The rest are from the Northeast and three are from out of the country.

Is Kentucky the EPL or Brazil?
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2017, 09:32:42 AM »

Quote
Kentucky and Alabama are poor, corruptly-run red states that are economically 50 years behind the more advanced states. But their colleges play great basketball and football. They focus on doing well in those sports because that is what they have going for them.

Can you elaborate on this analogy?  The Kentucky bball team has 15 players on its roster.  3 are from Kentucky.  Another 4 are from NC, Texas and Ark.  The rest are from the Northeast and three are from out of the country.

Is Kentucky the EPL or Brazil?
The analogy is imperfect. But they are backwards places who prioritize sporting achievement due to a more general inability to compete at other things. The Soviet bloc was another example of this. Communist governments placed emphasis on winning Olympic medals, and put a lot of money into that goal.

England (now) and the US (ever) don't have that motivation in soccer, and it puts those countries at a relative disadvantage. But England has a deeply engrained soccer culture. The US has youth programs and 1 league that was formed in 1995.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2017, 04:36:20 PM »

Deeply ingrained soccer culture

Yes but being 'deeply ingrained' is not necessarily a good thing.  I am Canadian originally and grew up playing hockey and soccer.  I will use a similar analogy from the Canadian hockey experience.  Canada was known for playing a physical style of hockey which became outdated with the end of the Cold War.  European players were simply better technically and the Canadian hockey program had to changed its 'deeply ingrained' habits.  I think American is actually in a better position than England for many reasons.  Perhaps the best reason is that Americans don't hold on to the deluded notion that because they invented the game they don't have to change their ways. 

Certainly there are efforts to change the EPL but you hear it in interview after interview from continental coaches - the game in England sucks and is inferior to other leagues.  The stupid habit of hoofing the ball down the field and chasing makes it impossible to develop superior soccer tactics.  Guardiola said this.  It is obvious.  I'd have to say that the Champion's League tells you which leagues have the best clubs in Europe 1. Spain 2. Germany 3. Italy 4. France and then England in fifth place.  Maybe in a few years we'll see the EPL catch up with the rest of Europe ... or then again maybe not.  Brexit will the challenge the patience of Europe.

The UK was admitted to the EU with special privileges ... and that wasn't good enough for these 'special' people.  Don't be surprised if the EPL teams can't play in the Champions League within 20 years. 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 08:30:48 PM by blacksheep »
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2017, 11:03:31 PM »

The UK was admitted to the EU with special privileges ... and that wasn't good enough for these 'special' people.  Don't be surprised if the EPL teams can't play in the Champions League within 20 years.
LOL. That is wishful thinking. The EPL will be the world's most followed league for a long, long time. Players and coaches from around the world will always want to be a part of it.

I think the MLS, if smart, can start picking off the other Euro leagues, one at a time.

You're absolutely correct that the British have a completely unjustified sense of specialness. So do Americans. But maybe you have forgotten that the German variant of this has led to two world wars and the Holocaust.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2017, 09:21:21 AM »

The British holocaust in Africa, India, North America and other continents far eclipsed the evil of the Germans in the Second World War.  What the German's did was evil.  No doubt about that.  But they were aided by technological advancements of the 20th century.  The number of people killed by the British in their wars of Imperialism occurred when those being slaughtered had for the most part no means of documenting the evils being perpetrated against them.   I mean 29 million Indians http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-truth-our-empire-killed-millions-404631.html and hundreds of millions over the course of the Empire.  This is well known but under-reported because - quite frankly - the Empire controlled history and Germans lost before they could establish an Empire and thereby control history.  Had the evil madman Hitler have won World War II the holocaust would have been swept under the carpet as the British holocausts have been.  So let's drop this self-serving line of reasoning on your part. No one has a monopoly on evil nor is one race or culture 'more evil' than another.  Human beings do evil things when given the chance.  Bottom line.

With respect to your idiotic soccer claims the fact that the EPL is 'the most watched league' has everything to do with Empire again.  Where the British media has an influence, where the English language is spoken as a first or second language so does the English media plant itself.  In South America and Mexico not surprisingly it is La Liga.  So where a league is watched is not an indication of whether or not the league is 'the best.'  Results in the Champions League do that.  And one might even through World Cup results as an indication of home grown talent too.  My father was at the one time England got a star and let's face it - that wasn't a goal.   

So the one time these losers won, it was fake.  The Germans proved time and time again what it takes to win - innovation and adapting to changing rules and modern soccer.  The Germans did their homework and have four stars, the Brits have one star owing to the influence of Empire. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 09:30:44 AM by blacksheep »
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2017, 09:33:13 AM »

And another statistic from one of those articles showing how dismally low the playing time for Englishmen is in the EPL.  Chelsea, the team with an Italian coach, allows its English players only 9% playing time on the field!  That's absurd but it's even more absurd to hail the parity of English soccer with the rest of the world based on that statistic.  The best English team is the best because ... it doesn't use Englishmen.  No other way to look at it. 

And when you mention how the American game can improve I have my own advice - can we stop having to have people with British accents do the commentary?  Why do I have to have people from that accursed island remind me that so and so played in England?  But now he's playing in a real league so who cares? 
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2017, 09:39:18 AM »

I also can't wait until we have exclusively American commentators - Donovan, Dempsey etc - doing the play by play and analysis.  Get rid of all the Brits or limit it down to one on the Fox coverage.  I've often wondered why anyone would go to 'UK Elite' for their kids?  We should have 'Samba academy' - I want my boy to have Neymar's skills not Oxlade Chamberlain's?   :(
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2017, 11:56:13 AM »


With respect to your idiotic soccer claims the fact that the EPL is 'the most watched league' has everything to do with Empire again. .
That's part of it, but not all of it. The EPL also has a long, storied history. It also has better competition and depth.

Italy, Spain, Germany, (do we even count France?) for most of their history have had 1-3 teams and a bunch of dogs. That isn't a fair statement today, but it is a fair characterization of a period lasting decades and decades. So nobody (outside of the locals) paid attention to the leagues. The only thing of interest was how the top team (massively better than the rest of the teams in its league) fared internationally. EPL wasn't like that. They didn't look outward so much because winning their own league was understood to be an achievement in its own right.

The world's most successful professional sports league is the NFL. It is obsessed with parity and competitiveness. There is zero interest in creating a dominant team to prove national superiority. It spreads out the talent and goes to great lengths to make sure that teams go up and down, maintaining a widespread interest across the country, across generations. That is the best way. That is the formula that the MLS can and should follow to gain revenue, grow, and create interest. Putting all the talent on one team, which you applaud, is stupid. It's stupid at the youth level. It's stupid at the pro level.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2017, 12:50:51 PM »

The EPL also has a long, storied history.

But that's always the British appeal - 'the tradition.'  I like Liverpool, Arsenal and even Chelsea now that they have the Italian coach.  But my reasons for liking those teams have nothing to do with anything British.  To get the thread back to the original post, America will become a great footballing nation.  You can see it with Pulisic.  It will become more inevitable with ethnic diversity (a la France where players from former colonies make them what they are today).  But none of the greatness that will be in America's future will have anything to do with its traditional adherence to British soccer.  In fact it will be in spite of it. 
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merenguemom

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2017, 01:30:27 PM »

Quote
With respect to your idiotic soccer claims the fact that the EPL is 'the most watched league' has everything to do with Empire again.  Where the British media has an influence, where the English language is spoken as a first or second language so does the English media plant itself.  In South America and Mexico not surprisingly it is La Liga.

To expand on the English language hegemony in the US soccer media, a little advertised fact is that most watched league in this country is Liga MX.  There already IS substantial ethnic diversity and with it a population that lives and breaths the sport, but it is actively suppressed by the wannabe anglophiles in charge of soccer in this country.  How many Latino commentators to you hear?  How many Latinos are on the USMNT and USYNT?  Add that to the fact that the pay to play structure at both the youth level and at the club ownership level effectively shuts entire "ethnic" communities out and I am far less optimistic than you on the future of football in this country.


(BTW Brazilians and Argentinian's will tell you that their "America" is already great at soccer ;)



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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »

Add that to the fact that the pay to play structure at both the youth level and at the club ownership level effectively shuts entire "ethnic" communities out and I am far less optimistic than you on the future of football in this country.

I think that many people would be surprised at how receptive clubs are here if ready packaged 'product' is available to them.  If what you mean by this comment you mean the cost of premiere academies I should mention that I know firsthand of many of the families of the top prospects at Crossfire and other clubs who happen to be Brazilian or Mexican don't pay for their training.  I think clubs are in a bind because on the one hand they want to get money where money can be gotten from families and moreover advertising 'free stuff' (i.e. 'assistance' programs) out in the open gets those who are paying upset.  But the reality is - show me a Neymar in the making who has a good knowledge of how to play within a team and I will show you a player who won't have to pay anything at the big development clubs here.  It's the yuppie families with kids on the D and E team that finance everything. 
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tripleplay

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2017, 06:26:39 PM »

Quote
With respect to your idiotic soccer claims the fact that the EPL is 'the most watched league' has everything to do with Empire again.  Where the British media has an influence, where the English language is spoken as a first or second language so does the English media plant itself.  In South America and Mexico not surprisingly it is La Liga.

To expand on the English language hegemony in the US soccer media, a little advertised fact is that most watched league in this country is Liga MX.  There already IS substantial ethnic diversity and with it a population that lives and breaths the sport, but it is actively suppressed by the wannabe anglophiles in charge of soccer in this country.  How many Latino commentators to you hear?  How many Latinos are on the USMNT and USYNT?  Add that to the fact that the pay to play structure at both the youth level and at the club ownership level effectively shuts entire "ethnic" communities out and I am far less optimistic than you on the future of football in this country.


(BTW Brazilians and Argentinian's will tell you that their "America" is already great at soccer ;)
The EPL's high revenues aren't due to its US following. They're due to its global following. My first exposure to rabid Premier League fandom was a childhood friend who was a Man U fan. They weren't even any good at the time. He was Chinese from Hong Kong.

I don't think there is any evidence that ethnic or other communities are shut out of US soccer. There are plenty of parallel paths. From the point of view of the player, anyone who plays well enough will be rewarded. The problem is that people whose kids don't play well enough to make the bucks need to complain. So they invent something (racism, pay-to-play, inferior English coaching, obsession with winning ...) to whine about.

What the US has and other countries don't are lots of communities (ethnic and other) who don't give a crap about soccer. Liga MX may be the most watched soccer league, but I'd bet that, even looking only at Mexican Americans, its viewership is way behind the NFL.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2017, 06:56:08 PM »

He was Chinese from Hong Kong.

And Hong Kong has nothing to do with the British Empire?
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SillyWho

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2017, 07:45:56 PM »

Look, it's really easy to armchair quarterback here about development over winning. Reality is, parents won't put their kids on teams that are losing, regardless of individual development. How many parents have watched their team win, and then commented on how the development of the the individual players on the other team was awesome? I will tell you as a former DOC, none.

The chance to develop a DK into a leader, or expand on their already substantial individual skill, will never be allowed on a team that is not winning. I cannot count how many kids have moved on to other clubs, because a parent wants better. Very few of those that moved were ever from winning teams that were progressing up the ladder as a team. There will always need to be shared philosophy of individual development, and team growth, together. But God forbid the parent sees it in a different light.

Parents are the customer these days. Players very rarely have issues with coaches, or teams, and wish to move. Parents are who the clubs and teams try and keep happy...so it's definately not about the kids. That's the true shame in it all.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2017, 09:09:52 PM »

I don't think there is any evidence that ethnic or other communities are shut out of US soccer.

I just picked up my kid from the guy I share carpooling with - who happens to be black and I live in a good neighborhood.  I told him my wife and I were playing tennis so could he drop off my son at the Starbucks instead of my house.  As he pulls up I notice a police car following him.  He stops the car to drop off my son the police stay about 50 feet behind in the parking lot.  My son gets out comes over to our car, my friend leaves, the police car follows him out.  He calls me five minutes later - police pull him over ask him a few stupid questions let him go.  Trust me, if you are white you don't get what life is like for others. 

On this specific topic let me just say that with all the Latinos in Seattle there is an under representation in some clubs.  At least part of that has to do with the cost of premier soccer.  I know this because many of my sons friends are Mexican and Brazilian.  Their fathers are envious that we can afford to pay $6000 a year on nonsensical soccer related things.  There is a problem.  It's just a problem that most white people can't relate to because they don't know many working class hispanics. 
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2017, 09:13:46 PM »

Reality is, parents won't put their kids on teams that are losing, regardless of individual development. How many parents have watched their team win, and then commented on how the development of the the individual players on the other team was awesome? I will tell you as a former DOC, none.

I must be the exception.  It's not about winning for me.  Just being real.  My son plays the whole game.  The most playing time of anyone on the team all year.  They've won games, they've lost games.  I've griped during the wins and congratulated the coach after the losses.   Couldn't care less about the result.
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blacksheep

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2017, 09:16:30 PM »

I don't know why I have to have this stupid Jimmy Page avatar. 
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ForTheKids

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Re: The Obsession With Winning
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2017, 09:27:54 PM »

Reality is, parents won't put their kids on teams that are losing, regardless of individual development. How many parents have watched their team win, and then commented on how the development of the the individual players on the other team was awesome? I will tell you as a former DOC, none.

I must be the exception.  It's not about winning for me.  Just being real.  My son plays the whole game.  The most playing time of anyone on the team all year.  They've won games, they've lost games.  I've griped during the wins and congratulated the coach after the losses.   Couldn't care less about the result.

You would if your son played 50%.  You sure as hell would.
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