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Author Topic: What am I missing?  (Read 1328 times)

FutbolPapa

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What am I missing?
« on: April 09, 2017, 02:40:40 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?
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Squash

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 04:11:51 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Without seeing it, it's very hard to say.

However field players cannot run into the keeper, let alone knock him into the goal. Typically the goalie is over protected.

thenoseknows

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 09:48:08 PM »

This weekend my GK had almost the same scenario happen, she went up for he ball, was in possession of it as she was coming down when she was kneed in the jaw and knocked unconscious. Ball rolled into the goal, no goal awarded and no foul given.
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tripleplay

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 10:09:07 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?
Video?

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Anfield Boy

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 09:15:01 AM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
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Oneblindmouse

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 09:45:51 AM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
From the initial description, there is not enough detail given to make an online judgement.  If both situations are the same, then I would tend towards agreement with Anfield Boy. 
Some thoughts on the situation;
- if the Keeper did not have control (bobbling the ball) then technically the ball is still fair game
- the Keeper does not enjoy any special protection - they are merely allowed to use their hands within their own penalty box,  - if the Keeper has full control of the ball and yet the ball still legally ends up over the goal line, it is still a goal.
So, my questions on the situation(s?) would be;
- Did the Keeper have control of the ball at the time of the challenge?
- Was the challenge legal?
- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?

Very hard to online armchair ref this situation, not enough detail to what was probably a very quick situation.  But I would say that something like this would most definitely require a quick chat with your AR - at the very least you would get a second set of eyes and all the people awaiting an outcome might feel that you weren't making a snap decision but weighing it appropriately.  I doubt everyone would be happy, but maybe "less aggravated"??...
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"In the opinion of the referee"....such a short phrase....wait!  whaddya mean it doesn't say that anymore!!!

sceri

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 10:18:55 AM »

For question #3, "- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?"; I would say keeper being out cold for 20 sec. and requiring a ride the hospital would pretty much answer this question....
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Anfield Boy

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 12:18:04 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
From the initial description, there is not enough detail given to make an online judgement.  If both situations are the same, then I would tend towards agreement with Anfield Boy. 
Some thoughts on the situation;
- if the Keeper did not have control (bobbling the ball) then technically the ball is still fair game
- the Keeper does not enjoy any special protection - they are merely allowed to use their hands within their own penalty box,  - if the Keeper has full control of the ball and yet the ball still legally ends up over the goal line, it is still a goal.
So, my questions on the situation(s?) would be;
- Did the Keeper have control of the ball at the time of the challenge?
- Was the challenge legal?
- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?

Very hard to online armchair ref this situation, not enough detail to what was probably a very quick situation.  But I would say that something like this would most definitely require a quick chat with your AR - at the very least you would get a second set of eyes and all the people awaiting an outcome might feel that you weren't making a snap decision but weighing it appropriately.  I doubt everyone would be happy, but maybe "less aggravated"??...
Right, no special gk treatment at all...and I think my point is, unless you're using Maradona's hand of God, how do you get a "fair game" ball out of the keeper's hand without a bump somewhere, ultimately causing them to fumble. And let's assume the center had a crowded sight line. Of course I had the luxury of watching this unfold. And no, the keeper's safety wasn't jeopardized.
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Oneblindmouse

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 01:27:52 PM »

For question #3, "- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?"; I would say keeper being out cold for 20 sec. and requiring a ride the hospital would pretty much answer this question....
Two different situations.  I was not referencing Thenoseknows's situation.
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tripleplay

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 01:28:26 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
From the initial description, there is not enough detail given to make an online judgement.  If both situations are the same, then I would tend towards agreement with Anfield Boy. 
Some thoughts on the situation;
- if the Keeper did not have control (bobbling the ball) then technically the ball is still fair game
- the Keeper does not enjoy any special protection - they are merely allowed to use their hands within their own penalty box,  - if the Keeper has full control of the ball and yet the ball still legally ends up over the goal line, it is still a goal.
So, my questions on the situation(s?) would be;
- Did the Keeper have control of the ball at the time of the challenge?
- Was the challenge legal?
- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?

Very hard to online armchair ref this situation, not enough detail to what was probably a very quick situation.  But I would say that something like this would most definitely require a quick chat with your AR - at the very least you would get a second set of eyes and all the people awaiting an outcome might feel that you weren't making a snap decision but weighing it appropriately.  I doubt everyone would be happy, but maybe "less aggravated"??...
Could there be incidental contact that pushes the keeper (and ball) into the goal which is not a foul? Is control of the ball necessarily relevant and why?

We've obviously all seen keepers move back into the goal with full control of the ball, causing a goal.
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Oneblindmouse

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 01:35:14 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
From the initial description, there is not enough detail given to make an online judgement.  If both situations are the same, then I would tend towards agreement with Anfield Boy. 
Some thoughts on the situation;
- if the Keeper did not have control (bobbling the ball) then technically the ball is still fair game
- the Keeper does not enjoy any special protection - they are merely allowed to use their hands within their own penalty box,  - if the Keeper has full control of the ball and yet the ball still legally ends up over the goal line, it is still a goal.
So, my questions on the situation(s?) would be;
- Did the Keeper have control of the ball at the time of the challenge?
- Was the challenge legal?
- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?

Very hard to online armchair ref this situation, not enough detail to what was probably a very quick situation.  But I would say that something like this would most definitely require a quick chat with your AR - at the very least you would get a second set of eyes and all the people awaiting an outcome might feel that you weren't making a snap decision but weighing it appropriately.  I doubt everyone would be happy, but maybe "less aggravated"??...
Right, no special gk treatment at all...and I think my point is, unless you're using Maradona's hand of God, how do you get a "fair game" ball out of the keeper's hand without a bump somewhere, ultimately causing them to fumble. And let's assume the center had a crowded sight line. Of course I had the luxury of watching this unfold. And no, the keeper's safety wasn't jeopardized.
I guess it depends on what constitutes "control" of the ball.  If the GK has the ball in control in their hands, not bobbling, then there is no "fair game" option, but if the ball is bobbling/bouncing around then it is not in control.  To me, if the GK has scooped up the ball, hands in front, arms under, and the ball is within the cradle that is formed and stays within the cradle then that is control, but if the ball is not between a hand and another object (not another player) then control has not been established.  Using the description given "catching but slightly bobbling" leaves some room for doubt. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 01:45:55 PM by Oneblindmouse »
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"In the opinion of the referee"....such a short phrase....wait!  whaddya mean it doesn't say that anymore!!!

Oneblindmouse

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 01:44:41 PM »

State cup game and the keeper catches the ball on a ball into the box and near the goal. Offensive player runs straight into to the keeper and knocks them into the goal with the ball. Goal is awarded... what am I missing? Keeper had possession the entire time and ended up on the ground in the goal. Just a tragically bad no-call?

Was this GU16's Rush v GSS? if so, I was there as DD plays for Rush. I also was at that end of the pitch where this happened. I have to say, as a fan of the game it feels so bad accepting a goal in that manner. Here's what I saw...the keeper catching but SLIGHTLY bobbling the ball to control it, pretty much right on the goal line. Then, seeing this, 3 attacking players rush the keeper to get to the ball. I'm also a referee, and if the keeper is trying to control the ball with her gloves and you so much as sneeze her way...it's a foul. Especially when the result is the ball and GK end up in the goal! It was would have been a easy foul to call and no one could complain.  At the very least, I would have liked the center to consult his AR before giving the goal.
From the initial description, there is not enough detail given to make an online judgement.  If both situations are the same, then I would tend towards agreement with Anfield Boy. 
Some thoughts on the situation;
- if the Keeper did not have control (bobbling the ball) then technically the ball is still fair game
- the Keeper does not enjoy any special protection - they are merely allowed to use their hands within their own penalty box,  - if the Keeper has full control of the ball and yet the ball still legally ends up over the goal line, it is still a goal.
So, my questions on the situation(s?) would be;
- Did the Keeper have control of the ball at the time of the challenge?
- Was the challenge legal?
- Was the Keeper's safety at risk in the challenge?

Very hard to online armchair ref this situation, not enough detail to what was probably a very quick situation.  But I would say that something like this would most definitely require a quick chat with your AR - at the very least you would get a second set of eyes and all the people awaiting an outcome might feel that you weren't making a snap decision but weighing it appropriately.  I doubt everyone would be happy, but maybe "less aggravated"??...
Could there be incidental contact that pushes the keeper (and ball) into the goal which is not a foul? Is control of the ball necessarily relevant and why?

We've obviously all seen keepers move back into the goal with full control of the ball, causing a goal.
Very possible that the contact could be completely legal/incidental. 

I think the question of control does have an effect on the outcome of the scenario.  If the attacker challenges the GK when the GK has control of the ball then they have committed a foul, which will have occurred prior to the ball crossing the line.  If the attacker challenges for the ball before the GK has control of the ball, the GK then gets control of the ball, but because of the contact in the challenge the GK/ball cross the line, then it would be a goal.
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"In the opinion of the referee"....such a short phrase....wait!  whaddya mean it doesn't say that anymore!!!

Anfield Boy

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 02:22:50 PM »

Could there be incidental contact that pushes the keeper (and ball) into the goal which is not a foul? Is control of the ball necessarily relevant and why?

We've obviously all seen keepers move back into the goal with full control of the ball, causing a goal.
[/quote]
Very possible that the contact could be completely legal/incidental. 

I think the question of control does have an effect on the outcome of the scenario.  If the attacker challenges the GK when the GK has control of the ball then they have committed a foul, which will have occurred prior to the ball crossing the line.  If the attacker challenges for the ball before the GK has control of the ball, the GK then gets control of the ball, but because of the contact in the challenge the GK/ball cross the line, then it would be a goal.
[/quote]

Agreed!
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tripleplay

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 02:24:21 PM »


Very possible that the contact could be completely legal/incidental. 

I think the question of control does have an effect on the outcome of the scenario.  If the attacker challenges the GK when the GK has control of the ball then they have committed a foul, which will have occurred prior to the ball crossing the line.  If the attacker challenges for the ball before the GK has control of the ball, the GK then gets control of the ball, but because of the contact in the challenge the GK/ball cross the line, then it would be a goal.
Makes sense to me. Field players certainly get pushed around all the time without it being a foul. The fact that the pushing happens to be into the goal wouldn't seem to be relevant. 
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