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Author Topic: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club  (Read 1637 times)

sounderfan

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New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« on: April 21, 2017, 10:08:09 AM »

Most families pay $100 a year, per kid. Siblings are half-off, uniforms are included.

Last year, two of the club’s five youth teams won the state championships.


http://nhpr.org/post/low-cost-high-level-soccer-club-turns-competition-opportunity#stream/0

ForTheKids

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 10:12:11 AM »

From the article:

"One reason soccer clubs are so expensive is they pay professional coaches. Jared and Hayden Barbosa coach at a professional level. For this club, they do it for free."

Precisely. In other countries, with the exception of academies, many provide their talents to the youth as an avocation, not a job.  Its different here. How it became that way is open to speculation but it is.  It is a bit hard to find a few ex pros that are willing to coach kids for free.

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skagitcoach

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 08:15:50 AM »

From the article:

"One reason soccer clubs are so expensive is they pay professional coaches. Jared and Hayden Barbosa coach at a professional level. For this club, they do it for free."

Precisely. In other countries, with the exception of academies, many provide their talents to the youth as an avocation, not a job.  Its different here. How it became that way is open to speculation but it is.  It is a bit hard to find a few ex pros that are willing to coach kids for free.
How many piano teachers do you know who teach for free?
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ForTheKids

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 12:41:24 PM »

The same number that do it as an avocation
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tripleplay

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 08:52:39 PM »

Soccer used to have only unpaid youth coaches in the US too. When it was a niche sport that nobody cared about. When our national team didn't qualify for the WC finals.

The idea that lowering the cost is the secret to improving US soccer is just not consistent with the facts. The article is just example 48,000 of what is wrong with the sport - I.e. putting the needs of connected adults ahead of those of the players. It's adults praising other adults - whether it actually benefits youth players is a complete irrelevancy to that crowd.
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EWSoccer64

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 10:47:41 PM »

??????

Off your meds again, TP?
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Squash

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 05:20:03 AM »

Soccer used to have only unpaid youth coaches in the US too. When it was a niche sport that nobody cared about. When our national team didn't qualify for the WC finals.

The idea that lowering the cost is the secret to improving US soccer is just not consistent with the facts. The article is just example 48,000 of what is wrong with the sport - I.e. putting the needs of connected adults ahead of those of the players. It's adults praising other adults - whether it actually benefits youth players is a complete irrelevancy to that crowd.

We won just as many World Cups on t he women's side with unpaid hero's as now......in fact I'd argue we played better.

We qualified the same on the men's side.... in fact our best runs were during mostly unpaid dad's coaching...LOL

I'd argue you don't have a clue. When I first started coaching it was unpaid.....many of those same guys coach now that it's paid. I'm not sure your comment is accurate. If anything the coaching has become a career instead of a passion, and the level has on average been brought down.

There are some great paid coaches, but if tomorrow they stopped being paid to do it......the question is would they?

All for One

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 01:13:51 PM »

Soccer used to have only unpaid youth coaches in the US too. When it was a niche sport that nobody cared about. When our national team didn't qualify for the WC finals.

The idea that lowering the cost is the secret to improving US soccer is just not consistent with the facts. The article is just example 48,000 of what is wrong with the sport - I.e. putting the needs of connected adults ahead of those of the players. It's adults praising other adults - whether it actually benefits youth players is a complete irrelevancy to that crowd.

We won just as many World Cups on t he women's side with unpaid hero's as now......in fact I'd argue we played better.

We qualified the same on the men's side.... in fact our best runs were during mostly unpaid dad's coaching...LOL

I'd argue you don't have a clue. When I first started coaching it was unpaid.....many of those same guys coach now that it's paid. I'm not sure your comment is accurate. If anything the coaching has become a career instead of a passion, and the level has on average been brought down.

There are some great paid coaches, but if tomorrow they stopped being paid to do it......the question is would they?

Parents are chasing the dream for their kids and being told by the marketing arms of various soccer organizations that paid coaches are superior to volunteers. The money moves to the clubs with paid coaches who can then afford to pay more coaches. Soon enough all coaches are paid and we're back to square one - except that the cost has gone up. Kind of like a Bachelor's degree is quickly becoming what a HS diploma used to be, a minimum requirement but nothing special.
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ouch

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 06:29:10 PM »

I, for one, am glad that individuals can create a career in coaching.  Yes, soccer is expensive.  But so is the top level of baseball, basketball, football, lacrosse, hockey, swimming, gymnastics... You name it. 

I grew up playing rec/select as my first sport was football.  I also coached rec a total of 7 years (5 years when I was 18-22 and a couple as a dad) and attended as a parent for a couple years.  I'd add that up to about 20 years of experience in rec/select soccer, and already my kids are exceeding my ability to coach and develop them!  Many years of great experiences.  However a number of years I was coached by a parent that knew very little about soccer, if anything.  The teams were a hodgepodge of kids with varying degree of desire to play.  As a coach, I'd have to basically taxi kids to practice and games just so I could get enough kids to field a team.  Parents used practice as a cheaper alternative to daycare.  And the fields... dirt fields filled with rocks and pits.  6 year olds playing 11 v 11 on a full size field.  Reversible jerseys and short, short, shorts!

Oh yes the glory days!

The year our boys played rec and I was not the coach was miserable.  Parent coach was very enthusiastic and knew just enough about soccer to scream at the boys the entire game to pass.  THE WHOLE GAME he would yell at the boys telling them who to pass to or scream at them to boot the ball up the field.  We finished the season undefeated, generally winning by 6-7 goals and our coach lived vicariously through his 6 year old players.  Literally he changed through the year- the way he dressed- he really loved this persona of coach he had created.  The whole year I agonized with the fact the kids were playing with friends and having fun.  I wanted to run, but we finished the season.  The next year we joined a premier team.

Yes the system has some flaws and is very expensive.  Yes some of the coaches and parents are a bit crazy.  It is not perfect.

But the quality and consistency of coaching has no doubt improved on an aggregate basis. 

Also, while we have premier as an option, we still have rec and select soccer to 19 years old: http://www.washingtonyouthsoccer.org/about_us/recreational/

Shouldn't we look at Premier soccer as additive to the soccer environment? The option to play year round, to have the option to match a child's desire to learn and develop as a soccer player with available resources? To develop and play with other kids that want to play and develop on the soccer field?

I think playing in the streets of England at 7 and being part of a soccer family were significant influences for Pulisic, but let's not completely ignore his participation in US Soccer.  His former club looks a lot like the local clubs: https://paclassics.demosphere-secure.com/_files/downloads/Cost%20Structure%20&%20Payment%20Schedule%202017-2018.pdf

And, if one day my little soccer player chooses a career as a coach, and can make a bit of money while doing something he loves-

Sounds like a neat way to make a living...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 06:57:18 PM by ouch »
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tripleplay

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 09:12:23 PM »

Soccer used to have only unpaid youth coaches in the US too. When it was a niche sport that nobody cared about. When our national team didn't qualify for the WC finals.

The idea that lowering the cost is the secret to improving US soccer is just not consistent with the facts. The article is just example 48,000 of what is wrong with the sport - I.e. putting the needs of connected adults ahead of those of the players. It's adults praising other adults - whether it actually benefits youth players is a complete irrelevancy to that crowd.

We won just as many World Cups on t he women's side with unpaid hero's as now......in fact I'd argue we played better.

We qualified the same on the men's side.... in fact our best runs were during mostly unpaid dad's coaching...LOL

I'd argue you don't have a clue. When I first started coaching it was unpaid.....many of those same guys coach now that it's paid. I'm not sure your comment is accurate. If anything the coaching has become a career instead of a passion, and the level has on average been brought down.

There are some great paid coaches, but if tomorrow they stopped being paid to do it......the question is would they?

Parents are chasing the dream for their kids and being told by the marketing arms of various soccer organizations that paid coaches are superior to volunteers. The money moves to the clubs with paid coaches who can then afford to pay more coaches. Soon enough all coaches are paid and we're back to square one - except that the cost has gone up. Kind of like a Bachelor's degree is quickly becoming what a HS diploma used to be, a minimum requirement but nothing special.
I disagree that paying coaches hasn't improved them. The current premier length of season and quantity of activity is way beyond what volunteers will do. And most "volunteer" coaches were people who wanted to live vicariously through the achievements of little kids, and pretend that they were coaching in the Premier leagues. Now those people have been replaced by mostly competent people who actually care about the players they coach.

The market preference for paid coaching is simply overwhelming. This isn't surprising if you do the basic math - the time and travel commitments dominate high level soccer. Saving money on a cheap but crappy coach is a choice that no rational person would make.
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Squash

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 05:32:19 AM »

Soccer used to have only unpaid youth coaches in the US too. When it was a niche sport that nobody cared about. When our national team didn't qualify for the WC finals.

The idea that lowering the cost is the secret to improving US soccer is just not consistent with the facts. The article is just example 48,000 of what is wrong with the sport - I.e. putting the needs of connected adults ahead of those of the players. It's adults praising other adults - whether it actually benefits youth players is a complete irrelevancy to that crowd.

We won just as many World Cups on t he women's side with unpaid hero's as now......in fact I'd argue we played better.

We qualified the same on the men's side.... in fact our best runs were during mostly unpaid dad's coaching...LOL

I'd argue you don't have a clue. When I first started coaching it was unpaid.....many of those same guys coach now that it's paid. I'm not sure your comment is accurate. If anything the coaching has become a career instead of a passion, and the level has on average been brought down.

There are some great paid coaches, but if tomorrow they stopped being paid to do it......the question is would they?

Parents are chasing the dream for their kids and being told by the marketing arms of various soccer organizations that paid coaches are superior to volunteers. The money moves to the clubs with paid coaches who can then afford to pay more coaches. Soon enough all coaches are paid and we're back to square one - except that the cost has gone up. Kind of like a Bachelor's degree is quickly becoming what a HS diploma used to be, a minimum requirement but nothing special.
I disagree that paying coaches hasn't improved them. The current premier length of season and quantity of activity is way beyond what volunteers will do. And most "volunteer" coaches were people who wanted to live vicariously through the achievements of little kids, and pretend that they were coaching in the Premier leagues. Now those people have been replaced by mostly competent people who actually care about the players they coach.

The market preference for paid coaching is simply overwhelming. This isn't surprising if you do the basic math - the time and travel commitments dominate high level soccer. Saving money on a cheap but crappy coach is a choice that no rational person would make.

A lot of people pay a premium for a crappy coach.... carry on

tripleplay

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 08:16:18 AM »

So you say, but it is by choice. One bogus trip in a year can cost a family more than they spend on the coach. Teams take half a dozen pointless trips. Truth is people who praise free coaches are (1) themselves free coaches so completely biased or (2) so far removed from rec where the reality of free coaches doesn't match the fantasy that they don't know what they are talking about.

Now, I am not saying that a niche based on lower-cost can't contribute to the soccer world. It can and should. But if you want real growth, coach cost is not where the focus should be.
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bebu

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 11:10:23 AM »

True story: There is a youth team in Barcelona that was top of the league that has both Barcelona and Espanyol in it. It had 4 professional coaches (3 of them with UEFA PRO licence). The coaches shared a monthly salary of less than $400 Euro.

I am on the side of paying coaches, however there has to be a limit.
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tripleplay

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Re: New Hampshire: Low-Cost, High-Level Soccer Club
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 10:39:20 PM »

True story: There is a youth team in Barcelona that was top of the league that has both Barcelona and Espanyol in it. It had 4 professional coaches (3 of them with UEFA PRO licence). The coaches shared a monthly salary of less than $400 Euro.

I am on the side of paying coaches, however there has to be a limit.
You are falling into the usual trap. On average teams with better players beat teams with worse players. The coach is largely irrelevant to team results and to the development of the players. But the players' subjective experience of the sport is greatly affected by the coach. The right coach makes it more fun, which makes the sport more popular, which raises the status of soccer in the sporting world, which raises the quality of athlete attracted to the sport, which raises the status of the sport ...  In Barcelona the status of soccer is already high - here we are fighting an uphill battle and need the best coaches we can get. Paying them is part of that.
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